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  1. #1
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    My 5x5 Thread (and some advice for ectomorphs and hard gainers)

    Hi

    I have been following the 5x5 programme with simple and cheap home equipment.
    If you are new and a hard gainer this may help. If you are experienced or wise then criticism is invited.

    Cliffs:

    -One day off, one day lifting, repeat. (Rest = Good, Overtraining = Bad)
    -Simple Compound exercises. (Builds muscle quicker than targetting individual muscles)
    -Only two different days to remember, easy to do.
    -Warm up with 5 reps of light weight, then do 5 sets of 5 reps. As it gets easier reduce rest time between sets, then increase weight. If you cant do at least 3 or 4 reps 5 times then the weight is too heavy.

    Lift Day A Shoulder day
    5x5 Standing Shoulder Press
    5x1 Deadlift (Or more reps if you dont have enough weights to go heavy)
    5x5 Squats (do hack squats/dumbell hack squats if you dont have a squat rack)

    Lift Day B Chest day
    5x5 Bench Press
    5x5 Barbell Rows
    5x5 Squats


    I found squats every other day too much so I took squats out from shoulder day because standing shoulder press and deadlift work legs enough anyway.

    To shoulder day I add:
    Weighted Sit ups and leg raises 10 of each x 5.
    Shoulder Side (lateral) raises and Front raises 5x5
    EZ bar curls 2 or 3 x5 and barbell curls x5

    To chest day I add:
    Weighted Sit ups and leg raises 10 of each x 5
    Tricep extensions 3 or 4 x5
    Chest dips x5

    You could also add pushups and dorsal raises. Dorsal raises are a better exercise than pushups IMO.

    Sometimes I also add pullups to target lats.

    I try to keep workouts around 1 hr long.

    Other advice for hardgainers and new lifters, try to eat at least 200grams of protein every day. Record every single lift (even if a set is hard or easy) so you can look back and beat your last workout EVERY time and move up your weights accordingly.

    Hope this helps and hopefully I will get some input.
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  2. #2
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    27 views no replies, am I doing it rite ? Or is it because I'm red...

    BTW I'm doing all 5 sets with the same weight.
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  3. #3
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    You took a good thing and completly butchered it...

    Squat
    Bench
    Row

    Squat
    Press
    Deadlift

    That's it... 5x5 or 3x5

    Btw...military press, aka standing shoulder press, does not under any circumstance work your legs.
    OG
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  4. #4
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    You took a good thing and completly butchered it...

    Squat
    Bench
    Row

    Squat
    Press
    Deadlift

    That's it... 5x5 or 3x5

    Btw...military press, aka standing shoulder press, does not under any circumstance work your legs.
    Well thanks but 5 lifts are not gonna work all your body so I added the extras because I enjoy them and they are good exercises.

    Squats every other day is dumb when it takes 6-7 days for a muscle to recover fully.

    Standing shoulder press from ground, works pretty much every muscle.
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  5. #5
    Registered User morej's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    You took a good thing and completly butchered it...

    Squat
    Bench
    Row

    Squat
    Press
    Deadlift

    That's it... 5x5 or 3x5

    Btw...military press, aka standing shoulder press, does not under any circumstance work your legs.
    This but with power cleans instead of rows is also an option.or if you have a vag I mean can't squat heavy 3x a week then do all pros its a sticky.
    Your program is not only not good advice..the only reason it worked for you is because almost anything done consistantly works for a beginner..but allpros or ss would without a doubt work better.
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    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by morej View Post
    This but with power cleans instead of rows is also an option.or if you have a vag I mean can't squat heavy 3x a week then do all pros its a sticky.
    Your program is not only not good advice..the only reason it worked for you is because almost anything done consistantly works for a beginner..but allpros or ss would without a doubt work better.
    I power clean right before each set of shoulder press? Why would I put power cleans on bench day too?

    More advice to squat every other day... thanks, I'll read your log anyway so don't think I'm not taking your advice on board.
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  7. #7
    Registered User morej's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    I power clean right before each set of shoulder press? Why would I put power cleans on bench day too?

    More advice to squat every other day... thanks, I'll read your log anyway so don't think I'm not taking your advice on board.
    In January I could squat 85 pounds 3x5, squatting 3x a week got it up to 195 3x5 before the end of February..so yeah, I really like that advice.because it works for me, and EVERYONE I know who has tried it.
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  8. #8
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Lol...can't squat 3x a week.

    I squatted 145lbs 5 weeks ago...squatting 3x a week for 5 week...210lbs squat. That what 55lbs added to my squat.
    OG
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  9. #9
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by morej View Post
    In January I could squat 85 pounds 3x5, got it up to 195 3x5 before the end of February
    Well GJDM regardless. Tell me that 85lbs was all your all time PR in Jan and I'll be impressed, but otherwise I'm putting it down to muscle memory.
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  10. #10
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    And everyone reacts differently, personally I found squatting every other day was causing knee injury so thats why I changed but I'll give it another go so thanks for the input.

    Hope your lifts continue to go up
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  11. #11
    Registered User morej's Avatar
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    January was the first time I'd ever lifted more than once a weekish during high school, and other than bw squats and burpees with the army I'd never done a single squat.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    And everyone reacts differently, personally I found squatting every other day was causing knee injury so thats why I changed but I'll give it another go so thanks for the input.

    Hope your lifts continue to go up
    If squats hurt you knees then you're not going deep enough. You should be taking your hips past parallel.

    I had my knees torn apart in Iraq and had to learn how to walk all over again and have zero problem squating.
    OG
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    I found squatting every other day was causing knee injury so thats why I changed but I'll give it another go so thanks for the input.
    Could have been knee caving. Did you ever post a form vid in the Exer section? That's a great way to nip form issues in the bud, saving pain or worse injury.
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    really? squatting 3 times week is bad.

    last week i did:

    worked up to 150KG x 1 on one day
    box squat 100KG x 8 x 2 then front squatted 92.5KG 5 x 5
    and after dead lift I then some more back squats.

    please OP let me know. Will i die?


    Also i have a feeling you might be red for more than just posting about Zyzz
    Saying Zyzz inspired you to lift is like saying Justin Bieber inspired you to sing
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  15. #15
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    Hey I'm here to learn, take it easy...

    I don't have a squat rack and my legs are weak. There I've said it. I will try a few barbell lunges and then re-asses my squat technique before going back to 3x a week. Thanks for the input.

    Any thing else? Should I do some dumbell flies to assist chest? I currently only do incline bench.


    I'm red because I said the juice killed zyzz and he was a bad role model. Look at my post count.
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  16. #16
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    Hey I'm here to learn, take it easy...

    I don't have a squat rack and my legs are weak. There I've said it. I will try a few barbell lunges and then re-asses my squat technique before going back to 3x a week. Thanks for the input.

    Any thing else? Should I do some dumbell flies to assist chest? I currently only do incline bench.


    I'm red because I said the juice killed zyzz and he was a bad role model. Look at my post count.
    Focus on the basics for now.

    Once you can bench 2 plates, squat 3 and deadlift 3 all for reps...then worry about flyes.

    Untill then focus on getting stronger.
    , just my .02
    OG
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  17. #17
    Not even my final form NZninja101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    Squats every other day is dumb when it takes 6-7 DAYS for a muscle to recover fully.

    Standing shoulder press from ground, works pretty much every muscle.
    So you believe it takes 6-7 days for a muscle to properly recover... and yet you're working every muscle every second day, because as you say yourself, standing shoulder press works every muscle.

    By the way, before you use the argument that shoulder press doesn't hit lots of muscles very hard so you don't need a week to recover, many muscles are hit by shoulder press, but the anterior deltoids are hit hard, and they are also hit hard by bench press. So you're working them every second day directly whilst arguing that muscles take 6-7 days to recover.

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  18. #18
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NZninja101 View Post
    So you believe it takes 6-7 days for a muscle to properly recover... and yet you're working every muscle every second day, because as you say yourself, standing shoulder press works every muscle.

    By the way, before you use the argument that shoulder press doesn't hit lots of muscles very hard so you don't need a week to recover, many muscles are hit by shoulder press, but the anterior deltoids are hit hard, and they are also hit hard by bench press. So you're working them every second day directly whilst arguing that muscles take 6-7 days to recover.

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    I tried 2 days of recovery on shoulder press and got weaker at it, this has never happened when I give it 3 days of recovery. Hence why I do squats, rest 3 days then do squats again.

    Meh. You're just trying to be clever anyway because I said shoulder press from ground works every muscle.

    So the only advice I'm getting is DO SQUATs. Wow.

    No input on rep count/set count? Weight variation?
    Last edited by ddctech; 03-30-2012 at 04:38 AM.
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    No input on rep count/set count? Weight variation?
    If you don't know this to begin with ^^^ you shouldn't be programming your own routine.
    There are plenty of well written programs to choose from that have already been tweaked and work. Pick one that fits your goals and run it for several months. Only change when results dictate a change is necessary.
    Because of the routine you posted, I'd stick with Starting Strength. But if you really want to stick to the 5X5, Stronglifts is practically the same program.
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  20. #20
    Registered User ddctech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by musikguy72 View Post
    If you don't know this to begin with ^^^ you shouldn't be programming your own routine.
    OK. I'll give it a few more months with what I posted and try to squat more. I havent really changed the basic 5x5, just added a few things to make it more of a challenge... I mean c'mon, brb never ever doing shrugs, ab work, curls or lat work?!? This is bodybuilding not powerlifting...
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  21. #21
    Banned Kodokan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    Well thanks but 5 lifts are not gonna work all your body so I added the extras because I enjoy them and they are good exercises.

    Squats every other day is dumb when it takes 6-7 days for a muscle to recover fully.

    Standing shoulder press from ground, works pretty much every muscle.
    Consider reading books. Or actually working out. Starting strength / practical programming. If you can't recover from squats every other day you shouldn't be doing a 5x5 across...time for texas method or something like bill star / madcow. read dude! jesus.
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    OK. I'll give it a few more months with what I posted and try to squat more. I havent really changed the basic 5x5, just added a few things to make it more of a challenge... I mean c'mon, brb never ever doing shrugs, ab work, curls or lat work?!? This is bodybuilding not powerlifting...
    You'll get more trap work out of deadlifting for a long time than you will from shrugs. Curls, ab work, etc...waste of time. diet and hard work will be your answer. or you could just keep doing what you're doing.
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    OK. I'll give it a few more months with what I posted and try to squat more. I havent really changed the basic 5x5, just added a few things to make it more of a challenge... I mean c'mon, brb never ever doing shrugs, ab work, curls or lat work?!? This is bodybuilding not powerlifting...
    Your not doing a bodybuilding routine either. 5X5 and 3X5 are strength routines. At the beginners level you can gain strength and mass so don't worry. but judging a strength routine as incomplete because you don't do direct bicep or trap work is missing the point of why you pick certain routines.
    The reason these routines are recommended is because they utilize compound lifts that work the biceps and traps (and abs) without any isolation exercises.
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    I tried 2 days of recovery on shoulder press and got weaker at it, this has never happened when I give it 3 days of recovery. Hence why I do squats, rest 3 days then do squats again.

    Meh. You're just trying to be clever anyway because I said shoulder press from ground works every muscle.
    I wouldn't call it clever; rather... Crude. But if you think that's clever then sure.



    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    So the only advice I'm getting is DO SQUATs. Wow.

    No input on rep count/set count? Weight variation?
    If you can't do that yourself then you should probably just do the routine as written.
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    OK. I'll give it a few more months with what I posted and try to squat more. I havent really changed the basic 5x5, just added a few things to make it more of a challenge... I mean c'mon, brb never ever doing shrugs, ab work, curls or lat work?!? This is bodybuilding not powerlifting...
    You get bicep work from doing rows and chin ups...you get trap work from deadlifts and military press.
    OG
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    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    Hi

    I have been following the 5x5 programme with simple and cheap home equipment.
    If you are new and a hard gainer this may help. If you are experienced or wise then criticism is invited.

    Cliffs:

    -One day off, one day lifting, repeat. (Rest = Good, Overtraining = Bad)
    -Simple Compound exercises. (Builds muscle quicker than targetting individual muscles)
    -Only two different days to remember, easy to do.
    -Warm up with 5 reps of light weight, then do 5 sets of 5 reps. As it gets easier reduce rest time between sets, then increase weight. If you cant do at least 3 or 4 reps 5 times then the weight is too heavy.

    Lift Day A Shoulder day
    5x5 Standing Shoulder Press
    5x1 Deadlift (Or more reps if you dont have enough weights to go heavy)
    5x5 Squats (do hack squats/dumbell hack squats if you dont have a squat rack)

    Lift Day B Chest day
    5x5 Bench Press
    5x5 Barbell Rows
    5x5 Squats


    I found squats every other day too much so I took squats out from shoulder day because standing shoulder press and deadlift work legs enough anyway.

    To shoulder day I add:
    Weighted Sit ups and leg raises 10 of each x 5.
    Shoulder Side (lateral) raises and Front raises 5x5
    EZ bar curls 2 or 3 x5 and barbell curls x5

    To chest day I add:
    Weighted Sit ups and leg raises 10 of each x 5
    Tricep extensions 3 or 4 x5
    Chest dips x5

    You could also add pushups and dorsal raises. Dorsal raises are a better exercise than pushups IMO.

    Sometimes I also add pullups to target lats.

    I try to keep workouts around 1 hr long.

    Other advice for hardgainers and new lifters, try to eat at least 200grams of protein every day. Record every single lift (even if a set is hard or easy) so you can look back and beat your last workout EVERY time and move up your weights accordingly.

    Hope this helps and hopefully I will get some input.
    Originally Posted by ddctech View Post
    I power clean right before each set of shoulder press? Why would I put power cleans on bench day too?

    More advice to squat every other day... thanks, I'll read your log anyway so don't think I'm not taking your advice on board.
    The exercises are out of order and you took a perfectly good beginner's strength program, Starting Strength, and ruined it.

    Lift Day A Shoulder day
    Power clean?
    5x5 Standing Shoulder Press
    5x1 Deadlift (Or more reps if you dont have enough weights to go heavy)
    5x5 Squats (do hack squats/dumbell hack squats if you dont have a squat rack)
    Weighted Sit ups and leg raises 10 of each x 5.
    Shoulder Side (lateral) raises and Front raises 5x5
    EZ bar curls 2 or 3 x5 and barbell curls x5

    Lift Day B Chest day
    5x5 Bench Press
    5x5 Barbell Rows
    5x5 Squats
    Weighted Sit ups and leg raises 10 of each x 5
    Tricep extensions 3 or 4 x5
    Chest dips x5

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Loaded with crap and completely out of order.
    Attention beginners and 'hard gainers'..........RUN!
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    Holy cow guy's i want to know what the best way for myself to get a good solid foundation.

    the 5x5 seems to be the best from what I'm hearing... im an ECTOMORPH im 46 and my question is should i do a Monday Tuesday on
    Wednesday off Thursday Friday on sat sun off and what routine can you please tell me in your opinions is best... cause im not sure how the 5x5 works.
    the best thing I've heard is do bench rows shoulder press squats and deadlifts for at least 3-6 months before I start trying to do a bunch of isolation exercises.
    is this correct and please give me a hand putting a good routine together or ideas that work.
    thankom 5'10" 160lbs 15% bf pretty solid i just want to get some real solid size.

    im not being a smartass but i don't want a bunch of crap just some straight up good advice... because thers tons here.
    Last edited by newbeg; 02-08-2017 at 01:52 PM. Reason: add on
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