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02-08-2012, 05:34 AM #121
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02-08-2012, 05:35 AM #122
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02-08-2012, 05:37 AM #123
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02-08-2012, 05:37 AM #124
im sorry if it appears that way because i am doing my utmost to be open and consistent.
it may very well be true that my argument pre-supposes its own truth and validity, but as a human this is unavoidable. you pre-suppose the validity of human reason, but this you do not gainsay. why is it any different?
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02-08-2012, 05:37 AM #125
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02-08-2012, 05:39 AM #126
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02-08-2012, 05:40 AM #127
- Join Date: Jul 2005
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02-08-2012, 05:41 AM #128
- Join Date: Jul 2005
- Location: In a squat rack, curling away
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Whats an absolute truth? If you mean logic or math, those are abstractions and are true by their nature.
This goes back to my point about analytic truth-thats a truth that is true by virtue of the definitions. Its truth is contained within itself.
We're going around in circlesNov 04-fatass @40%bf
Jan 06- buff(apparently) @ ermm i dunno, still have a gut though,
long term goal= jacked @ 7% bf, get the damn abs to show themselves
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02-08-2012, 05:42 AM #129
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02-08-2012, 05:44 AM #130
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02-08-2012, 05:45 AM #131
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02-08-2012, 05:45 AM #132
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How is human existence 'trans-subjective'? Existence is purely subjective, so the understanding and comprehension of it comes down purely to the individual - so there's no need for a framework (like that provided by the belief in a higher power), a subjective perspective will simply attach the purpose and reasoning it personally finds in existence.
Which is to say that a person might (independently) arrive at the conclusion that a higher power might exist, but equally it may never even occur to them.
With subjectivity, knowledge, truth and understanding don't only come from external sources (if they did, the human race would never have developed even the most basic of tools), they come from personal interpretation (from external sources or otherwise). So there is absolutely NO reason to assume that people couldn't conceive of there not being a higher power.
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02-08-2012, 05:47 AM #133
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02-08-2012, 05:48 AM #134
i have to reject the concept of a correspondant theory of truth, as i have no idea what it is, and i think it is distracting from the real discussion: whether the concept of truth or knowledge has any meaning without reference to a source of ultimate truth and knowledge. thus far you have ignored it.
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02-08-2012, 05:49 AM #135
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02-08-2012, 05:51 AM #136
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02-08-2012, 05:52 AM #137
The correspondence theory of truth is the real discussion; it explains how there can be truth without reference to a source of ultimate truth. It states that a proposition is true if it corresponds to the facts. I haven't ignored anything. Indeed, I've explained the correspondence theory of truth more than thoroughly enough for you to understand why you are coming up with needlessly false conclusions regarding some unnecessary ultimate source of truth.
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02-08-2012, 05:52 AM #138
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02-08-2012, 05:54 AM #139
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02-08-2012, 05:55 AM #140
it sppears to me you are continually referencing relativistic truths. i have no interest in the relative. my concern is with the absolute. if there is to be a coherent concept of absolute truth, there must be a standard against which it can be judged. if there is no standard, we can have no concept of truth.
do you agree with this?
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02-08-2012, 05:57 AM #141
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02-08-2012, 05:57 AM #142
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02-08-2012, 05:58 AM #143
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02-08-2012, 05:58 AM #144
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02-08-2012, 06:00 AM #145
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02-08-2012, 06:02 AM #146
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02-08-2012, 06:07 AM #147
to clarify, i am talking of the metaphysical concept of truth. this concept requires a source of ultimate truth to be judged against, and to determine whether it is true. if this source does not exist, there would be no way to determine the truth.
i think you are talking of the this-world concept of truth and deriving the necessary truths from a set of premises. that is a different concept entirely, and one which this discussion is not about.
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02-08-2012, 06:08 AM #148
This is where most religious people just start making things up.
And isn't it funny how the only species on earth capable of critical thinking and speech is the one that concludes that humans were created in the image of a god?
A little too convenient if you ask me. What if ants were created in a god's image but just can't tell us about it?
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02-08-2012, 06:10 AM #149
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02-08-2012, 06:13 AM #150
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