lol, so OP is either a fat racist neck beard, or he's stealing his philosophical thoughts from one... LOL
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02-08-2012, 07:24 AM #181lifting advice? http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
diet advice? http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
relationship advice? http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
philosophy? http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
penis enlargement? http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
and for lols and good times; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
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02-08-2012, 07:42 AM #182
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02-08-2012, 08:17 AM #183
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02-08-2012, 08:22 AM #184
i found this posted b4 on dah misk but i think it is 3000% better than OPs' absolutist assumption & assertion
Infallible Potential Parallels of Doom inc May, 2013 +/-:
the ONLY Mayan archaeological site on 12-21-2012 is at TORTUGUERO
it states "Bolon Yokte" will descend, a deity associated with the underworld, war, conflict, & death, also present at past age renewal periods (according to artifacts like the Vase of the Seven Lords & more)
his descent could represent Satan possessing the anti-christ when he's wounded unto death by the sword & healed (Revelation 13:3)
Mayan's cylical Chilam Balam prophecy predicted their demise, lending credence on top of being one of, if not the most, astronomically advanced culture (Katun 11-Ahau: Apparently food is scarce during this katun and invading foreigners arrive and disperse the population.)
the anti-christ will require all to receive his mark/name/# [666] to trade [fertile ground = resource shortage] (Revelation 13:11-18)
any who worship the anti-christ isn't written in the book of life (Rev. 13:8 & 17:8); he'll be wounded unto death by a sword & healed (Rev 13:3)
the false prophet will make the image of the anti-christ come to life & cause fire to come down from the sky, to cause any who don't worship the anti-christ to be put to death (Revelation 13:11-18)
2 ordained prophets will prophecy for 3.5 yrs, bring plague/famine, turn waters to blood, devour those who seek to harm them w/ fire from their mouths > anti-christ kills them after, 3.5 days later rezzed into heaven (Revelation 11)
Revelation 18:8 'famine shall come in 1 day' aptly predicting, by 2K yrs, civilization's susceptibility to global power outages from solar storms (see: solar storms of 1859, 1921, 1989)
http://www.tinyurl.com/noaassreport , http://www.tinyurl.com/2013nasapr , http://www.tinyurl.com/natdefss , http://www.tinyurl.com/2012rumor
14 secular/empirical & ethical proofs for Judeo-Christian philosophy:
1.) Mark 13:2 + more citations from matthew/luke > Christ predicts the temple of mount olives falling, & it does in the Jewish revolt against the Romans years after his crucifixion
2.) Matthew 24:14 the gospel has been preached to essentially all the nations
3.) Israel is once again a nation, required for the end of the age of the knowledge of good & evil (the tree Adam/Eve disobediently ate from) luke 21:20 you will know the end is near when Jerusalem is encamped about (by the anti-christ)
3a.) The reception of the anti-christ's/false prophet's mark/name/number is more likely if a global power outage occurs, which is possible given the past, see: the solar storm of 1859 which caused rudimentary telegraph systems/electronics to ignite
4.) The academic/spectroscopic discovery of the Big Bang was essentially predicted by the depiction of creation (in the beginning was darkness, & God said let there be light, & there was light) -- a Catholic priest/astronomer/physicist discovered its sound insight (Georges Lemaitre), on top of Albert Einstein, a Jew, revolutionizing physics with General Relativity
5.) Genesis agrees with evolution & not a 10,000 day, creationist earth (the earth was made on the 3rd day, Abrahamic doctrine defines a day as darkness/light)
5a.) Adam & Eve's exile from the Garden of Eden is an ambiguous event that referenced the origin of sin creating spiritual death due to disobedience to God (the Garden of Eden is another dimension, guarded by a flaming sword which turns every which way [Genesis 3:24], also housing the tree of life, the reason being for their exile was "to keep the way of the tree of life" as said by God)
6.) Psalm 110:1 but the LORD (Father) said unto my Lord (Christ) sit thou at my right hand until thy enemies become thy footstool (2,500+ yr old prophecy CONFIRMING the purpose of this age)
6a.) Christ expounds upon the purpose of the Age of Knowledge of Good & Evil being to obtain the good souls creatable from allowing evil souls to exist (Matthew 13:29 angels ask Christ to pull the weeds up, Christ says no, wait until they've fully grown or you pull up the wheat also)
6b.) God's justice for allowing suffering/evil is unchallengeable, because without sin having the wage of death, NONE OF US WOULD EXIST, PERIOD. ;o tough stuff to really let sink in when shet gets rough.
7.) Isaiah 29:10 they will have eyes to see & ears to hear, doing neither
7a.) Spirit of slumber rebuffed by Christ & recited in Matthew 13:13, identifies God's mercy through maximizing the harvest of good from evil, however harsh it may seem
7b.) Saul/Paul explains in Romans 11:8-11 that the purpose of the spirit of slumber is to provoke jealousy for others' salvation, seen specifically in how the Pharaoh's people worship God after the Pharaoh repeatedly has his heart hardened so that his people experience a multitude of plagues
8.) Proverbs 13:10 by pride comes contention (extent of sin/evil rebuffed by Christ)
8a.) John 9:41 if you were blind, you would have no sin, but you say you see, therefore your sin remains
8b.) Matthew 5:37 let your no be no & your yes be yes, anything more than that comes from the evil one
8c.) Matthew 5:44-47 love those who dont love you, that you might be children of your Father who is in heaven
8d.) Matthew 25:34-45 that you do unto the least of men, you do it unto God (Christ says, I was thirsty/hungry/naked/homeless & you [did or did not] gave me drink/food/clothes/shelter, rendering fate to the state of hearts)
8e.) John 10:29 none can pluck those the Father has given Christ from his hand
8f.) Matthew 13:19 when one hears the word of the kingdom of God, then comes the wicked one, who snatches away that which was sown in his heart
8g.) Matthew 7:1-5/luke 6:37 judge/condemn/forgive & such will be done unto you
9.) Genesis 17:19&21 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. (this verse prophecies of denunciation for Muhammed & Islam being ordained -- they claim Muhammed is a descendant of Ishmael, brother to Isaac, & give Adamic regard to him because of this, but this is mistaken, as again, God's covenant [see: #13 I added] was with Isaac, predecessor to Christ)
a. Islam condones worshiping others aside from God -- see: Muhammed (Christ says to worship NONE BUT GOD)
b. Islam condones polygamy & ****philia (Christ says any who defile a little one is better off tying a millstone to his neck & drowning himself in the sea)
c. Islam claims Christ is a prophet, yet exalts itself above Christ in denouncing Christ's status as God's firstborn (John 3:16)
d. Islam condones vindictive ideas of "self defense", contrary to Christ's advocacy for absolute mercy & prayer for adversaries.
e. Islam's endtimes plot wrongly defies apt Judeo-Christian end times requirements, prepping its followers for eternal damnation (they claim Christ will return & reign for 7 years w/ the Mahdi (the anti-christ is said to reign for 3.5 yrs, but also make a covenant w/ many for one "7", & in the midst of that "7", break it [likely peaceful rule for the 1st 3.5 yrs, then violent rule thereafter]) -- Christ WILL NOT RETURN until the anti-christ has killed the 2 ordained prophets w/ them being resurrected 3.5 days later
10.) Susceptibility to a global power outage is aptly predicted (Revelation 18:8 famine will come in one day) -- likely required for the majority of man to worship the anti-christ in receiving his mark/name/# (666) to trade, persuaded by the false prophet's ability to call fire from the sky & make the image of the anti-christ come to life (Revelation 13:11-18).
11.) Astrology's predominant accuracy agrees with individual fate/destiny.
12-13.) Hauntings/near death experiences & deaths w/ resuscitations add to proof of extra-dimensional entities.
14.) UFOs prove extra-dimensional entities.
What about nonbelievers?
EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS IT IS GIVEN:
Job 34:11, Psalm 62:12, Proverbs 24:12, Jeremiah 17:10, Ezekiel 18:20, Ezekiel 36:19, Matthew 16:27, Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 11:15, Revelation 22:12)
JESUS MENTIONS MERCY FOR THOSE IGNORANT OF THE GOSPEL IN DEATH:
The falsely exalted Capernaum/Bethsaida/Chorazin shall be brought to purgatory/sheol, as if the works which were done in it were done in Sidon/Tyre/Gomorrah/Sodom, it would've remained until this day (Matthew 10:15, Matthew 11:21-24, Luke 10:12-15)
But, the works of men are NOT their own, only the result of God's grace to allow them an open heart (it is also said, none shall boast of works, it is by grace that there are those saved).
Why the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) in the Old Testament?
1.) Educate God's children on the difference of what is worldly & what is divine (required component to trials under the Age of the Knowledge of Good & Evil)
2.) Ensure competence & success in a fledgling nation
3.) Underscore the importance of obedience
4.) Magnify the truth of man's fallibility
5.) Share appreciation for God's mercy w/ all of the above[/quote]
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02-08-2012, 09:07 AM #185
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02-08-2012, 01:23 PM #186
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Just because you cannot know something does not imply that anyone else knows it. You are pre-supposing that all truths are known by something and then trying to prove it. But no one else here is starting with the premise that all truths are known by something - at least they are not known in a sense that they can be communicated to us. They are known insofar as they simple are the accurate descriptions of objective reality. The problem is our senses can never be a guide in this "objective" realm of reality, so we will never be able to say for certain what they are. They are only the shadows on the wall in Plato's Cave.
You can't start with a premise that proves your point when we haven't agreed upon it. All we've agreed upon is that truth exists. You keep wanting these truths to be 'knowable' and seem convinced that it's okay to justify the existence of some all-knowing being to tell us said truths since we can't figure them out - as if this was a logical implication.
An honest truth-seeker, like myself, recognizes that truth 'exists', but that the sort of 'truth' you are talking about is utterly meaningless in that it does not affect our daily lives at all, and is not knowable. An honest truth seeker therefore does not make up entities with divine knowledge so that he can pretend to understand said unknowable truths. He is okay with them being unknowable and instead works in the realm of things that actually matter in his life - this is why empiricism and science prevail in importance.
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02-08-2012, 01:25 PM #187
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02-08-2012, 03:24 PM #188
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02-08-2012, 03:28 PM #189
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02-08-2012, 04:10 PM #190
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02-08-2012, 05:34 PM #191
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Not really. No metaphysics I'm aware of tries to prove the 'validity' of truth, since validity implies you already have an understanding of proof. Obviously the concept is self-evident. You just make a totally irrelevant claim that it is only meaningful with God - a concept which, over the last seven pages, we've relegated to the realm of an non-conscious existence that does not possess any of the properties of any deistic or theistic God. What you are doing now is like, after I explain a square is a geometric object with sides of equal length, you ask "but why?" It just is. There are no proofs squares are objects with sides of equal length, that's just what it is. No metaphysical construct tries to prove its own axioms - it is apparent they are self-evident and it progresses from there.
and bilaba70, The Blind Watchmaker is a book by Richard Dawkins arguing against the idea (not theory) of Intelligent Design. Then again, it doesn't really have to do with OP's argument - which is pure metaphysics and thus outside of the realm of science.
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02-08-2012, 06:25 PM #192
Not at all. What you don't seem to understand is that truth is a human construct to begin with. Truth is merely the name we give to propositions which accord with the facts. You do not need to posit any metaphysical framework or make any metaphysical assumptions in order to evaluate the truth of a proposition based on this definition.
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02-08-2012, 06:26 PM #193
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02-10-2012, 03:12 PM #194
I've been busy and without internet for the past few days, but I wrote this yesterday. I think it is the best articulated argument I've come up with yet. What do you think?
Your very existence is an act reliant on a myriad of faiths. Indeed, the most important, and obvious faith, is faith in your existence. By asserting your existence, you are denying your non-existence. The simple act of asserting your existence – and this is an assertion which no man can shrink from; to do so would be contradictory – implies that there is a standard with which existence and non-existence are measured. If there is no standard, there could be no distinguishing between existence and non-existence.
Each faith you possess (eg. what you see is an accurate representation of reality, your ability to make correct judgements using your inherent reason, etc.), is reliant on the concept of an objective, coherent standard. As a man, you implicitly accept this standard, this divine order.
And then you say you don’t, or, most importantly, can’t have faith in God? When, in fact – you already do…
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02-10-2012, 03:15 PM #195
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02-10-2012, 03:16 PM #196
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02-10-2012, 03:24 PM #197
Read Rene Descartes "Meditation, Objections, and Replies". This really gives a lot of thought towards the whole subject and gives logical proofs for God's existence.
"the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter--tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther.... And one fine morning-- So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."
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02-10-2012, 03:26 PM #198
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02-10-2012, 03:28 PM #199Your very existence is an act reliant on a myriad of faiths.
By asserting your existence, you are denying your non-existence. The simple act of asserting your existence – and this is an assertion which no man can shrink from; to do so would be contradictory – implies that there is a standard with which existence and non-existence are measured.
If there is no standard, there could be no distinguishing between existence and non-existence.
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02-10-2012, 03:30 PM #200
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02-10-2012, 03:33 PM #201
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02-10-2012, 03:34 PM #202
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02-10-2012, 03:37 PM #203
The whole thing about Steven Hawkings argument that in moments before the big bang time didn't exist as time itself is a dimension and couldn't escape the gravity of the atom sized mass is a legit theory... But there are other dimensions outside our own and nobody knows if our universe is it's own or part of something bigger.
Nobody will ever know for certain, it's impossible to say, and therefore impossible to logically deny the existence of something greater than ourselves, or "God." Whatever he or it may be.
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02-10-2012, 03:38 PM #204
Religious logic: it's impossible for everything to come from nothing, therefore god made everything from nothing
it's not even funny, it sounds like the reasoning of someone with alzheimer's
you guys are so dumb you literally make humans look bad, future generations will laugh at us because you are making us look so dumb and naive
ffs
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02-10-2012, 03:38 PM #205
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02-10-2012, 03:42 PM #206
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02-10-2012, 04:16 PM #207
What you're asking for here, essentially, is for me to disprove idealism. Thankfully, I don't have to do that. If you want to make that argument, then the burden is on you to disprove the null hypothesis, and since I don't expect you to be dealing a fatal blow to realism any time soon, I'd say don't bother trying.
Please point out the errors in my reasoning.
Prove it.
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02-10-2012, 04:52 PM #208~*\_Beard Brah_/*~
*Misc Cigar Crew*
*Writes in Cursive Crew*
Any posts made by me are purely fictional in nature and by no means is anything I say to be taken seriously. Any and all pictures I post are pictures widley available on the internet and any discussions I am involved in are purely hypothetical or are commentary in nature and should not constitute advice or be considered advice to assist in activities that are deemed illegal.
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02-10-2012, 05:09 PM #209
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Your argument is getting more incoherent by the page.
You are now demanding proof for the existence of reality. Well, if you think you are the only thing that exists, this is a position known as solipsism. Why are you arguing with non-existent beings?
You believe in the existence of God without proof, but when we accept reality exists (something you do too) you demand we prove it. You are demanding unreasonable evidence for our viewpoint and expect yours to get a free pass. I've already shown that, by assuming human reasoning is valid (something you must, since you attempt to argue your point via reason) that the notion of God is superfluous and unreasonable.
Stop asking us to prove reality exists, while thinking that your idea of God existing gets by without being set to the same standards. And if you're a solipsist, why are you arguing with your own imagination?
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02-10-2012, 07:08 PM #210
More hand-waving ****e. If you want to assert idealism, you're the one who's going to have to defend, it not me. I'm simply describing the human condition.
I assume the standard exists, because I exist. If there was no standard, there would be no difference between existence and non-existence. This is undeniable.
Whether the standard was created or determined, is immaterial. If you concede it is there a priori, that is just a different definition for the same thing.
I didn't bring up truth. You did. I'm talking about existence.
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