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  1. #211
    Registered User IQover100's Avatar
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    lol @ hollow arguments using nothing but useless wordcraft



    god can be refuted with one word: science.
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  2. #212
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    Originally Posted by Lucretius View Post
    Your argument is getting more incoherent by the page.

    You are now demanding proof for the existence of reality. Well, if you think you are the only thing that exists, this is a position known as solipsism. Why are you arguing with non-existent beings?

    You believe in the existence of God without proof, but when we accept reality exists (something you do too) you demand we prove it. You are demanding unreasonable evidence for our viewpoint and expect yours to get a free pass. I've already shown that, by assuming human reasoning is valid (something you must, since you attempt to argue your point via reason) that the notion of God is superfluous and unreasonable.

    Stop asking us to prove reality exists, while thinking that your idea of God existing gets by without being set to the same standards. And if you're a solipsist, why are you arguing with your own imagination?
    I'm afraid this rebuttal actually refers to none of my points. If you want to, you can re-read my post, and try again.
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  3. #213
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    Originally Posted by IQover100 View Post
    lol @ hollow arguments using nothing but useless wordcraft



    god can be refuted with one word: science.
    Science can never "refute" God. Whatever that means
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  4. #214
    Enjoying the lamentations Ed_Hitchens's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    Science can never "refute" God. Whatever that means
    The more one learns about science, the less one relies on superstitious nonsense to explain the universe.

    RELIGIOUS VIEW
    Possessed by demons

    SCIENCE VIEW
    Mental illness/neurological disorder

    RELIGIOUS VIEW
    God hates us/is displeased

    SCIENCE VIEW
    Bad weather killed the crops. It happens due to atmospheric conditions, not some celestial boogeyman.

    Most true-believer bible-thumper types don't read serious science journals or textbooks. They are too busy reading books like this:

    Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

    Your prayers have been answered. The answer is NO.

    Never give up on your dreams. They provide so much joy to your friends and family who laugh about them behind your back.

    Remember when you were a kid and dreamed of working in a cubicle all day? Mission accomplished.
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  5. #215
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    Originally Posted by Ed_Hitchens View Post
    The more one learns about science, the less one relies on superstitious nonsense to explain the universe.

    RELIGIOUS VIEW
    Possessed by demons

    SCIENCE VIEW
    Mental illness/neurological disorder

    RELIGIOUS VIEW
    God hates us/is displeased

    SCIENCE VIEW
    Bad weather killed the crops. It happens due to atmospheric conditions, not some celestial boogeyman.

    Most true-believer bible-thumper types don't read serious science journals or textbooks. They are too busy reading books like this:
    Yeah, that's great, but how does it "refute" God?
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  6. #216
    Enjoying the lamentations Ed_Hitchens's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    Yeah, that's great, but how does it "refute" God?
    God doesn't require refuting. It is a concept that simply diminishes under conditions such as the following:

    1. You are not told about it and it therefore has no relevance to your life.
    2. Education > greater intellect > critical thought replaces the need for "magical thinking".

    When belief in a God stops, that God "dies". Witness Horus, Mithra, Ra, Apollo, Zeus, or any of the other thousands of deities that have been worshiped and glorified by various cultures over the centuries. The Abrahamic God(s) is no different. Eventually he will pass into memory like all of the others.

    If it wasn't for cultural institutions (i.e.parents, churches, common culture) you would have no idea about God, Jesus, the Bible or any of it. That just happens to be the myth that you were exposed to and/or brought up in. Other countries and cultures have their own versions, each borrowing from the same common sources that have been passed down throughout our existence as civilizations merged and influenced each other. Christianity, even today, is shifting from the barbaric bloodthirsty God of the Old Testament to the compassionate forgiving God of the New Testament, to the more "New Age" fire-and-brimstone-lite brand that is being espoused by guys like Joel Osteen.

    There is no "one true doctrine" or "one true God". There is only mankind's feeble attempts to find compassion and meaning in a cold, ruthless universe. Religion is just another warm blanket, like booze and drugs, that we wrap ourselves in to try and shelter us from the harshness of reality. There is no master plan or special project for each of our lives; that is just our ego talking. We just live and make the best of it. Then we pass into dust like the billions before us.
    Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

    Your prayers have been answered. The answer is NO.

    Never give up on your dreams. They provide so much joy to your friends and family who laugh about them behind your back.

    Remember when you were a kid and dreamed of working in a cubicle all day? Mission accomplished.
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  7. #217
    Registered User PlasticJanus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    More hand-waving ****e. If you want to assert idealism, you're the one who's going to have to defend, it not me. I'm simply describing the human condition.
    It's not hand-waving. I wasn't asserting idealism, I was asserting realism, and I don't have to prove it because it's the null hypothesis.

    I assume the standard exists, because I exist. If there was no standard, there would be no difference between existence and non-existence. This is undeniable.
    Given the sense of the word "standard" that you seem to be employing (that is, a standard which is external to and independant from human reasoning), then it is not undeniable. In fact, I deny it outright. I agree that there is a standard by which we determine whether or not things exist, but that standard is not some absolute, metaphysical concept external to the human experience. If you're referring to such an absolute standard, as in Platonism, then your above claim is simply untrue.

    I didn't bring up truth. You did. I'm talking about existence.
    You actually did bring up truth when you asked me to prove that existence is dichotomous, but because you seem to be lacking metaphysical understanding, you didn't realize it. In matters of whether or not something exists, the issue at hand is whether or not the proposition "x exists" is true, and so in order to establish an answer you need to deal with theories of truth.
    Last edited by PlasticJanus; 02-11-2012 at 12:26 AM.
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  8. #218
    Registered User DiamondSwagg's Avatar
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    Why are you guys arguing about this? You believe what you believe. Don't believe what I do? Cool.....not changing my life.
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  9. #219
    <clever title here> swordfish7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrsnruB1111 View Post
    lol

    look at me I'm OP

    I'm going to deliberately confuse the reader by putting a bunch of huge scientific buzzwords in a cluster and hope that I appear smart. durrrr


    Do you even know what metaphysical or any of the words you're using mean OP, or did you just hear them somewhere
    OP actually used all the "big words" properly. U literate son?
    "vegetarians only eat life forms that can't run, hide, or defend themselves"

    I rep back
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  10. #220
    Registered User Kharvok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    The denial of the existence of God is logically incoherent.

    A person could not operate as a person if they did not accept, through faith, the existence of metaphysical concepts such as the validity of human reasoning, the trans-subjectivity of human knowledge, etc, so through their very act of existing, every person is a metaphysician. A metaphysical framework, asserts, through its very existence, a theory and standard of knowledge, and a notion of what is ultimately knowable and true. Such a framework, if it is to be logically coherent, must have as its foundation, a source of ultimate knowledge and truth, which can be described as God, or recognised as a god-like entity, or even simply as the Coherence of Existence.

    To deny the existence of this source of ultimate truth and knowledge, is a logical impossibility, because to deny it is to deny the existence of knowledge or truth of any kind; which, as we have already established, man is unable to do.
    This is basically the cosmological argument for god. Look it up. I'm not explaining a simple rebuttal.
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  11. #221
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    Originally Posted by Kharvok View Post
    This is basically the cosmological argument for god. Look it up. I'm not explaining a simple rebuttal.
    You won't, because you can't.
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  12. #222
    Registered User Lucretius's Avatar
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    This argument is the transcendental argument for God. It's riddled with flaws - most of which because it's based on presuppositionalist apologetics. You assume knowledge and truth only make sense through God - and then you make the T.A.G., argument which says God must exist in order for truth and logic to make sense. BRB assuming what I want to prove.
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  13. #223
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    You won't, because you can't.

    You neg me because I won't re-type 500 year old basic philosophy? Nice

    http://www.princeton.edu/~grosen/puc...tological.html

    This is almost exactly your argument it seems


    More here:http://www.iep.utm.edu/ont-arg/

    Finally, the most convincing criticism is William L Rowe's. I don't have it online, only in text.
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  14. #224
    Registered User l2ambo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fizzle02 View Post
    where is your god now?

    HAHAAHAHAHHAAHHAHAH dumb fat people. It's a good thing that they only live for 50 years or so.

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  15. #225
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    Originally Posted by Lucretius View Post
    This argument is the transcendental argument for God. It's riddled with flaws - most of which because it's based on presuppositionalist apologetics. You assume knowledge and truth only make sense through God - and then you make the T.A.G., argument which says God must exist in order for truth and logic to make sense. BRB assuming what I want to prove.
    If you can make a coherent argument that makes sense of knowledge and truth without God, I'd love to see it (no, really).
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  16. #226
    Україна h0z's Avatar
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    but no, religion in general is just a comfort + inner security for people who are afraid of confronting death, if there was a god then there wouldn't be an infinite universe where we and our lives are as close to microscopic, being completely pointless and meaningless in the grander scheme of things

    and even then there are still more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on earth
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  17. #227
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    Originally Posted by Kharvok View Post
    You neg me because I won't re-type 500 year old basic philosophy? Nice

    http://www.princeton.edu/~grosen/puc...tological.html

    This is almost exactly your argument it seems


    More here:http://www.iep.utm.edu/ont-arg/

    Finally, the most convincing criticism is William L Rowe's. I don't have it online, only in text.
    My argument is not the ontological argument.
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  18. #228
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    Originally Posted by h0z View Post


    but no, religion in general is just a comfort + inner security for people who are afraid of confronting death, if there was a god then there wouldn't be an infinite universe where we and our lives are as close to microscopic, being completely pointless and meaningless in the grander scheme of things

    and even then there are still more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on earth
    Inane stupidity.
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  19. #229
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    Inane stupidity.
    then argue it, just the mere idea of an afterlife would be a fate worse than death
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  20. #230
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    Originally Posted by h0z View Post
    then argue it, just the mere idea of an afterlife would be a fate worse than death
    What do you mean? Do you accept the idea of an afterlife
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    What do you mean? Do you accept the idea of an afterlife
    no, when you die thats the end, while most religions on the other hand just try to sugarcoat things by telling you otherwise
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    Originally Posted by h0z View Post
    no, when you die thats the end, while most religions on the other hand just try to sugarcoat things by telling you otherwise
    Seems like mere assertion to me. What evidence do you have to suggest that when you die, that's the end?
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    Seems like mere assertion to me. What evidence do you have to suggest that when you die, that's the end?
    are you really just going to question everything i say without reason instead of using your fairly good argument for the existence of GOD to prove me wrong?

    lets put it this way, hey i'm christian (actually am) i'm living on earth as a trial judgement period so when i die i can be judged by god to go to either heaven or hell and ideally live a new peaceful immortal life over there.

    Why the **** would anyone wanna be immortal, that would remove all meaning, motivation and purpose to life in general. People get bored with their lives knowing that their time is limited and eventually there is an end and that they're going to die, now imagine that but knowing that there is no end
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    Originally Posted by h0z View Post
    are you really just going to question everything i say without reason instead of using your fairly good argument for the existence of GOD to prove me wrong?

    lets put it this way, hey i'm christian (actually am) i'm living on earth as a trial judgement period so when i die i can be judged by god to go to either heaven or hell and ideally live a new peaceful immortal life over there.

    Why the **** would anyone wanna be immortal, that would remove all meaning, motivation and purpose to life in general. People get bored with their lives knowing that their time is limited and eventually there is an end and that they're going to die, now imagine that but knowing that there is no end
    Stay on target mate, you're not addressing the point. What evidence is there, that there is nothing after death; that death is the "end"?
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    Stay on target mate, you're not addressing the point. What evidence is there, that there is nothing after death; that death is the "end"?
    yeah thats what i thought, try telling me that there is something after death then and please feel free to provide some logic behind that sunshine
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    Take this junk to the R&P forum and stop littering the misc with this horse shiit

    RP was made for a reason, and that was so you ph@ggots can argue about this shiit there
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    how can you get items required for the big bang, they couldn't have always been there.
    therefor some omnipotent being must have put them there.
    but how did the omnipotent being come to be?




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    Originally Posted by Diab0lic View Post
    Take this junk to the R&P forum and stop littering the misc with this horse shiit

    RP was made for a reason, and that was so you ph@ggots can argue about this shiit there
    lol get phucked *******.
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    Originally Posted by h0z View Post
    yeah thats what i thought, try telling me that there is something after death then and please feel free to provide some logic behind that sunshine
    I'm not. I'm asking you why you believe in nothing after death. Apparently this is something you take on faith, something to sugarcoat the harsh reality of existence.
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    Originally Posted by Fizzle02 View Post
    where is your god now?

    heh, I guess it gives new meaning to the phrase "Holy Shit"



    and BTW op, speaking in graduate level philosophical terms with people that are not keen on terminology isn't going to win anyone over. Personally, I just follow Occam's Razor. It basically states that the possibility of a "god" is not impossible but highly improbable.
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