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  1. #181
    RIP Zyzz strong3rdpost's Avatar
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    lol, so OP is either a fat racist neck beard, or he's stealing his philosophical thoughts from one... LOL
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  2. #182
    Registered User Popa91's Avatar
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    dude seriously? do you even know what you wrote down?
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  3. #183
    Alpha manlet, idgaf. NivVo's Avatar
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    lmfao who talks like that, what a queer.
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  4. #184
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    i found this posted b4 on dah misk but i think it is 3000% better than OPs' absolutist assumption & assertion

    Infallible Potential Parallels of Doom inc May, 2013 +/-:

    the ONLY Mayan archaeological site on 12-21-2012 is at TORTUGUERO

    it states "Bolon Yokte" will descend, a deity associated with the underworld, war, conflict, & death, also present at past age renewal periods (according to artifacts like the Vase of the Seven Lords & more)

    his descent could represent Satan possessing the anti-christ when he's wounded unto death by the sword & healed (Revelation 13:3)

    Mayan's cylical Chilam Balam prophecy predicted their demise, lending credence on top of being one of, if not the most, astronomically advanced culture (Katun 11-Ahau: Apparently food is scarce during this katun and invading foreigners arrive and disperse the population.)

    the anti-christ will require all to receive his mark/name/# [666] to trade [fertile ground = resource shortage] (Revelation 13:11-18)

    any who worship the anti-christ isn't written in the book of life (Rev. 13:8 & 17:8); he'll be wounded unto death by a sword & healed (Rev 13:3)


    the false prophet will make the image of the anti-christ come to life & cause fire to come down from the sky, to cause any who don't worship the anti-christ to be put to death (Revelation 13:11-18)

    2 ordained prophets will prophecy for 3.5 yrs, bring plague/famine, turn waters to blood, devour those who seek to harm them w/ fire from their mouths > anti-christ kills them after, 3.5 days later rezzed into heaven (Revelation 11)

    Revelation 18:8 'famine shall come in 1 day' aptly predicting, by 2K yrs, civilization's susceptibility to global power outages from solar storms (see: solar storms of 1859, 1921, 1989)

    http://www.tinyurl.com/noaassreport , http://www.tinyurl.com/2013nasapr , http://www.tinyurl.com/natdefss , http://www.tinyurl.com/2012rumor



    14 secular/empirical & ethical proofs for Judeo-Christian philosophy:
    1.) Mark 13:2 + more citations from matthew/luke > Christ predicts the temple of mount olives falling, & it does in the Jewish revolt against the Romans years after his crucifixion

    2.) Matthew 24:14 the gospel has been preached to essentially all the nations

    3.) Israel is once again a nation, required for the end of the age of the knowledge of good & evil (the tree Adam/Eve disobediently ate from) luke 21:20 you will know the end is near when Jerusalem is encamped about (by the anti-christ)
    3a.) The reception of the anti-christ's/false prophet's mark/name/number is more likely if a global power outage occurs, which is possible given the past, see: the solar storm of 1859 which caused rudimentary telegraph systems/electronics to ignite

    4.) The academic/spectroscopic discovery of the Big Bang was essentially predicted by the depiction of creation (in the beginning was darkness, & God said let there be light, & there was light) -- a Catholic priest/astronomer/physicist discovered its sound insight (Georges Lemaitre), on top of Albert Einstein, a Jew, revolutionizing physics with General Relativity

    5.) Genesis agrees with evolution & not a 10,000 day, creationist earth (the earth was made on the 3rd day, Abrahamic doctrine defines a day as darkness/light)
    5a.) Adam & Eve's exile from the Garden of Eden is an ambiguous event that referenced the origin of sin creating spiritual death due to disobedience to God (the Garden of Eden is another dimension, guarded by a flaming sword which turns every which way [Genesis 3:24], also housing the tree of life, the reason being for their exile was "to keep the way of the tree of life" as said by God)

    6.) Psalm 110:1 but the LORD (Father) said unto my Lord (Christ) sit thou at my right hand until thy enemies become thy footstool (2,500+ yr old prophecy CONFIRMING the purpose of this age)
    6a.) Christ expounds upon the purpose of the Age of Knowledge of Good & Evil being to obtain the good souls creatable from allowing evil souls to exist (Matthew 13:29 angels ask Christ to pull the weeds up, Christ says no, wait until they've fully grown or you pull up the wheat also)
    6b.) God's justice for allowing suffering/evil is unchallengeable, because without sin having the wage of death, NONE OF US WOULD EXIST, PERIOD. ;o tough stuff to really let sink in when shet gets rough.

    7.) Isaiah 29:10 they will have eyes to see & ears to hear, doing neither
    7a.) Spirit of slumber rebuffed by Christ & recited in Matthew 13:13, identifies God's mercy through maximizing the harvest of good from evil, however harsh it may seem
    7b.) Saul/Paul explains in Romans 11:8-11 that the purpose of the spirit of slumber is to provoke jealousy for others' salvation, seen specifically in how the Pharaoh's people worship God after the Pharaoh repeatedly has his heart hardened so that his people experience a multitude of plagues

    8.) Proverbs 13:10 by pride comes contention (extent of sin/evil rebuffed by Christ)
    8a.) John 9:41 if you were blind, you would have no sin, but you say you see, therefore your sin remains
    8b.) Matthew 5:37 let your no be no & your yes be yes, anything more than that comes from the evil one
    8c.) Matthew 5:44-47 love those who dont love you, that you might be children of your Father who is in heaven
    8d.) Matthew 25:34-45 that you do unto the least of men, you do it unto God (Christ says, I was thirsty/hungry/naked/homeless & you [did or did not] gave me drink/food/clothes/shelter, rendering fate to the state of hearts)
    8e.) John 10:29 none can pluck those the Father has given Christ from his hand
    8f.) Matthew 13:19 when one hears the word of the kingdom of God, then comes the wicked one, who snatches away that which was sown in his heart
    8g.) Matthew 7:1-5/luke 6:37 judge/condemn/forgive & such will be done unto you

    9.) Genesis 17:19&21 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. (this verse prophecies of denunciation for Muhammed & Islam being ordained -- they claim Muhammed is a descendant of Ishmael, brother to Isaac, & give Adamic regard to him because of this, but this is mistaken, as again, God's covenant [see: #13 I added] was with Isaac, predecessor to Christ)
    a. Islam condones worshiping others aside from God -- see: Muhammed (Christ says to worship NONE BUT GOD)
    b. Islam condones polygamy & ****philia (Christ says any who defile a little one is better off tying a millstone to his neck & drowning himself in the sea)
    c. Islam claims Christ is a prophet, yet exalts itself above Christ in denouncing Christ's status as God's firstborn (John 3:16)
    d. Islam condones vindictive ideas of "self defense", contrary to Christ's advocacy for absolute mercy & prayer for adversaries.
    e. Islam's endtimes plot wrongly defies apt Judeo-Christian end times requirements, prepping its followers for eternal damnation (they claim Christ will return & reign for 7 years w/ the Mahdi (the anti-christ is said to reign for 3.5 yrs, but also make a covenant w/ many for one "7", & in the midst of that "7", break it [likely peaceful rule for the 1st 3.5 yrs, then violent rule thereafter]) -- Christ WILL NOT RETURN until the anti-christ has killed the 2 ordained prophets w/ them being resurrected 3.5 days later

    10.) Susceptibility to a global power outage is aptly predicted (Revelation 18:8 famine will come in one day) -- likely required for the majority of man to worship the anti-christ in receiving his mark/name/# (666) to trade, persuaded by the false prophet's ability to call fire from the sky & make the image of the anti-christ come to life (Revelation 13:11-18).

    11.) Astrology's predominant accuracy agrees with individual fate/destiny.

    12-13.) Hauntings/near death experiences & deaths w/ resuscitations add to proof of extra-dimensional entities.

    14.) UFOs prove extra-dimensional entities.
    [/QUOTE]


    What about nonbelievers?
    EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS IT IS GIVEN:
    Job 34:11, Psalm 62:12, Proverbs 24:12, Jeremiah 17:10, Ezekiel 18:20, Ezekiel 36:19, Matthew 16:27, Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 11:15, Revelation 22:12)

    JESUS MENTIONS MERCY FOR THOSE IGNORANT OF THE GOSPEL IN DEATH:
    The falsely exalted Capernaum/Bethsaida/Chorazin shall be brought to purgatory/sheol, as if the works which were done in it were done in Sidon/Tyre/Gomorrah/Sodom, it would've remained until this day (Matthew 10:15, Matthew 11:21-24, Luke 10:12-15)

    But, the works of men are NOT their own, only the result of God's grace to allow them an open heart (it is also said, none shall boast of works, it is by grace that there are those saved).


    Why the 613 Mitzvot (commandments) in the Old Testament?
    1.) Educate God's children on the difference of what is worldly & what is divine (required component to trials under the Age of the Knowledge of Good & Evil)

    2.) Ensure competence & success in a fledgling nation

    3.) Underscore the importance of obedience

    4.) Magnify the truth of man's fallibility

    5.) Share appreciation for God's mercy w/ all of the above[/quote]
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  5. #185
    Registered User theIllusion's Avatar
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    how about... no
    Getting shredded in memory of Zyzz
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  6. #186
    Registered User Lucretius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    what does it matter that empirical knowledge has give us? If we are honest truth seekers - and it is obvious to me you are exceptionally honest, and consistent - we must follow truth wherever the trail leads us, even if it leads us to previously unfathomable paths.

    It is clear to me that we cannot discover the truth on our own. it is beyond us. all that is left - and this is where it gets really ****ed up - is revelation - communication of knowledge to man by a divine or supernatural agency. i can see no other alternative to discovering truth. Can you?
    Just because you cannot know something does not imply that anyone else knows it. You are pre-supposing that all truths are known by something and then trying to prove it. But no one else here is starting with the premise that all truths are known by something - at least they are not known in a sense that they can be communicated to us. They are known insofar as they simple are the accurate descriptions of objective reality. The problem is our senses can never be a guide in this "objective" realm of reality, so we will never be able to say for certain what they are. They are only the shadows on the wall in Plato's Cave.

    You can't start with a premise that proves your point when we haven't agreed upon it. All we've agreed upon is that truth exists. You keep wanting these truths to be 'knowable' and seem convinced that it's okay to justify the existence of some all-knowing being to tell us said truths since we can't figure them out - as if this was a logical implication.

    An honest truth-seeker, like myself, recognizes that truth 'exists', but that the sort of 'truth' you are talking about is utterly meaningless in that it does not affect our daily lives at all, and is not knowable. An honest truth seeker therefore does not make up entities with divine knowledge so that he can pretend to understand said unknowable truths. He is okay with them being unknowable and instead works in the realm of things that actually matter in his life - this is why empiricism and science prevail in importance.
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  7. #187
    Registered User TheTron3000's Avatar
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    This argument still doesn't prove there is a God up in heaven with a beard watching and judging us. It just proves that something created the universe, which atheists have never denied...
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  8. #188
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    Originally Posted by OfficerRodFarva View Post
    yes. as i stated before i am an occasional guest poster on that blog. the picture is in reference to a previous story on the blog. it changes with each topic, but since i have no control over it, it stayed the same.
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  9. #189
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    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    I don't know what you're referencing when you say "false and false." Because I essentially made two claims: that I could suggest an absolute truth according to correspondence and that the two aforementioned objections do not change that. Both claims are true.
    heres the problem. any theory you advance to do with the "truth from correspondence" was devised by a person using assumed metaphysical constructs, and therefore assumes the very thing it is trying to prove, and therefore has zero explanatory power.
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  10. #190
    Semi-aesthetic Diabetic bilaba70's Avatar
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    It's good to finally see a thread like this pop-up. This should keep me busy for a while.

    Repping on r/c.

    Originally Posted by Helmut3000 View Post
    OP please read the blind watchmaker and you will understand.
    Aware me on the blind watchmaker...
    أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله

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  11. #191
    Registered User Lucretius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    heres the problem. any theory you advance to do with the "truth from correspondence" was devised by a person using assumed metaphysical constructs, and therefore assumes the very thing it is trying to prove, and therefore has zero explanatory power.
    Not really. No metaphysics I'm aware of tries to prove the 'validity' of truth, since validity implies you already have an understanding of proof. Obviously the concept is self-evident. You just make a totally irrelevant claim that it is only meaningful with God - a concept which, over the last seven pages, we've relegated to the realm of an non-conscious existence that does not possess any of the properties of any deistic or theistic God. What you are doing now is like, after I explain a square is a geometric object with sides of equal length, you ask "but why?" It just is. There are no proofs squares are objects with sides of equal length, that's just what it is. No metaphysical construct tries to prove its own axioms - it is apparent they are self-evident and it progresses from there.

    and bilaba70, The Blind Watchmaker is a book by Richard Dawkins arguing against the idea (not theory) of Intelligent Design. Then again, it doesn't really have to do with OP's argument - which is pure metaphysics and thus outside of the realm of science.
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    heres the problem. any theory you advance to do with the "truth from correspondence" was devised by a person using assumed metaphysical constructs, and therefore assumes the very thing it is trying to prove, and therefore has zero explanatory power.
    Not at all. What you don't seem to understand is that truth is a human construct to begin with. Truth is merely the name we give to propositions which accord with the facts. You do not need to posit any metaphysical framework or make any metaphysical assumptions in order to evaluate the truth of a proposition based on this definition.
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  13. #193
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    The denial of the existence of God is logically incoherent.

    A person could not operate as a person if they did not accept, through faith, the existence of metaphysical concepts such as the validity of human reasoning, the trans-subjectivity of human knowledge, etc, so through their very act of existing, every person is a metaphysician. A metaphysical framework, asserts, through its very existence, a theory and standard of knowledge, and a notion of what is ultimately knowable and true. Such a framework, if it is to be logically coherent, must have as its foundation, a source of ultimate knowledge and truth, which can be described as God, or recognised as a god-like entity, or even simply as the Coherence of Existence.

    To deny the existence of this source of ultimate truth and knowledge, is a logical impossibility, because to deny it is to deny the existence of knowledge or truth of any kind; which, as we have already established, man is unable to do.
    I denied it, hmmm didn't seem to have a problem doing that
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  14. #194
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    I've been busy and without internet for the past few days, but I wrote this yesterday. I think it is the best articulated argument I've come up with yet. What do you think?


    Your very existence is an act reliant on a myriad of faiths. Indeed, the most important, and obvious faith, is faith in your existence. By asserting your existence, you are denying your non-existence. The simple act of asserting your existence – and this is an assertion which no man can shrink from; to do so would be contradictory – implies that there is a standard with which existence and non-existence are measured. If there is no standard, there could be no distinguishing between existence and non-existence.

    Each faith you possess (eg. what you see is an accurate representation of reality, your ability to make correct judgements using your inherent reason, etc.), is reliant on the concept of an objective, coherent standard. As a man, you implicitly accept this standard, this divine order.

    And then you say you don’t, or, most importantly, can’t have faith in God? When, in fact – you already do…
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    Registered User bonkerzzz's Avatar
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    Where the **** is Frank yang when you need him?
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    Originally Posted by bonkerzzz View Post
    Where the **** is Frank yang when you need him?
    im afraid frank is not up to this discussion...yet. his philsophy is an incoherent mish-mash of ideas. he hasnt synthesised them yet.
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    Read Rene Descartes "Meditation, Objections, and Replies". This really gives a lot of thought towards the whole subject and gives logical proofs for God's existence.
    "the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter--tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther.... And one fine morning-- So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    The denial of the existence of God is logically incoherent.

    A person could not operate as a person if they did not accept, through faith, the existence of metaphysical concepts such as the validity of human reasoning, the trans-subjectivity of human knowledge, etc, so through their very act of existing, every person is a metaphysician. A metaphysical framework, asserts, through its very existence, a theory and standard of knowledge, and a notion of what is ultimately knowable and true. Such a framework, if it is to be logically coherent, must have as its foundation, a source of ultimate knowledge and truth, which can be described as God, or recognised as a god-like entity, or even simply as the Coherence of Existence.

    To deny the existence of this source of ultimate truth and knowledge, is a logical impossibility, because to deny it is to deny the existence of knowledge or truth of any kind; which, as we have already established, man is unable to do.
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    Your very existence is an act reliant on a myriad of faiths.
    No, it's not. Things exist regardless of whether or not any conscious being believes them to.

    By asserting your existence, you are denying your non-existence. The simple act of asserting your existence – and this is an assertion which no man can shrink from; to do so would be contradictory – implies that there is a standard with which existence and non-existence are measured.
    No, it doesn't. You're essentially just arguing for some convoluted form of Platonism, and it's baffling that you think you can do so without any form of justification.

    If there is no standard, there could be no distinguishing between existence and non-existence.
    Existence (and truth) are dichotomous and are not measured against a certain, absolute standard. They are determined by the achievement of certain criteria.
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    Originally Posted by myworldis View Post
    Read Rene Descartes "Meditation, Objections, and Replies". This really gives a lot of thought towards the whole subject and gives logical proofs for God's existence.
    Yes, but it was Descartes epistemological failures that laid the root of error from which modernity grew, with its innumerable evil.
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    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    No, it's not. Things exist regardless of whether or not any conscious being believes them to.
    Prove it.

    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    No, it doesn't. You're essentially just arguing for some convoluted form of Platonism, and it's baffling that you think you can do so without any form of justification.
    Please point out the errors in my reasoning.

    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    Existence (and truth) are dichotomous and are not measured against a certain, absolute standard. They are determined by the achievement of certain criteria.
    Prove it.
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    Originally Posted by bentimidator View Post
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    The whole thing about Steven Hawkings argument that in moments before the big bang time didn't exist as time itself is a dimension and couldn't escape the gravity of the atom sized mass is a legit theory... But there are other dimensions outside our own and nobody knows if our universe is it's own or part of something bigger.

    Nobody will ever know for certain, it's impossible to say, and therefore impossible to logically deny the existence of something greater than ourselves, or "God." Whatever he or it may be.
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    Religious logic: it's impossible for everything to come from nothing, therefore god made everything from nothing



    it's not even funny, it sounds like the reasoning of someone with alzheimer's

    you guys are so dumb you literally make humans look bad, future generations will laugh at us because you are making us look so dumb and naive


    ffs
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    oo painful thread backfire, how embarrassing op just got his 'argument' (ramblings) DESTROYED


    that was painful to read, quick op, delete the thread before even more people see how retarded you are
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    Originally Posted by blablablah View Post
    Prove it.
    What you're asking for here, essentially, is for me to disprove idealism. Thankfully, I don't have to do that. If you want to make that argument, then the burden is on you to disprove the null hypothesis, and since I don't expect you to be dealing a fatal blow to realism any time soon, I'd say don't bother trying.

    Please point out the errors in my reasoning.
    First of all, you're assuming that the standard exists. You haven't justified that belief. Second, even if you could establish that the standard exists, you're making a plethora of unjustified assumptions about that standard. One of the most unjustifiable assumptions you made is that the standard was created or determined, rather than simply being a priori fact. Since there's absolutely no way to verify it either way, Occam's razor makes the latter the rational choice. In fact, the majority of modern Platonists (rare as they are) differ from Plato primarily in the sense that they believe in Platonic truths but they don't believe those truths were dictated or created by a god.

    Prove it.
    I don't have to, and if you had taken a course in epistemology or metaphysics (or even if you just understood how theories of truth work), I wouldn't have to continually rehash this point with you.
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    Originally Posted by AceRok View Post


    It is an argument used by William Lane Craig in that video.
    Damn son strong video. I watched the entire thing. Good watch


    Especially because at the 31:00 mark he begins to say how in God does not exists then rape is not bad. So that's definitely a plus for you ******* atheist... but a minus for me because then that means its bad
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    Your argument is getting more incoherent by the page.

    You are now demanding proof for the existence of reality. Well, if you think you are the only thing that exists, this is a position known as solipsism. Why are you arguing with non-existent beings?

    You believe in the existence of God without proof, but when we accept reality exists (something you do too) you demand we prove it. You are demanding unreasonable evidence for our viewpoint and expect yours to get a free pass. I've already shown that, by assuming human reasoning is valid (something you must, since you attempt to argue your point via reason) that the notion of God is superfluous and unreasonable.

    Stop asking us to prove reality exists, while thinking that your idea of God existing gets by without being set to the same standards. And if you're a solipsist, why are you arguing with your own imagination?
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    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    What you're asking for here, essentially, is for me to disprove idealism. Thankfully, I don't have to do that. If you want to make that argument, then the burden is on you to disprove the null hypothesis, and since I don't expect you to be dealing a fatal blow to realism any time soon, I'd say don't bother trying.
    More hand-waving ****e. If you want to assert idealism, you're the one who's going to have to defend, it not me. I'm simply describing the human condition.

    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    First of all, you're assuming that the standard exists. You haven't justified that belief. Second, even if you could establish that the standard exists, you're making a plethora of unjustified assumptions about that standard. One of the most unjustifiable assumptions you made is that the standard was created or determined, rather than simply being a priori fact. Since there's absolutely no way to verify it either way, Occam's razor makes the latter the rational choice. In fact, the majority of modern Platonists (rare as they are) differ from Plato primarily in the sense that they believe in Platonic truths but they don't believe those truths were dictated or created by a god.
    I assume the standard exists, because I exist. If there was no standard, there would be no difference between existence and non-existence. This is undeniable.

    Whether the standard was created or determined, is immaterial. If you concede it is there a priori, that is just a different definition for the same thing.

    Originally Posted by PlasticJanus View Post
    I don't have to, and if you had taken a course in epistemology or metaphysics (or even if you just understood how theories of truth work), I wouldn't have to continually rehash this point with you.
    I didn't bring up truth. You did. I'm talking about existence.
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