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02-18-2012, 06:29 PM #241
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02-18-2012, 06:34 PM #242
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02-18-2012, 06:39 PM #243
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02-18-2012, 06:41 PM #244
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02-18-2012, 06:42 PM #245
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02-18-2012, 06:43 PM #246
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02-18-2012, 06:47 PM #247
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02-18-2012, 06:53 PM #248
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02-18-2012, 06:58 PM #249
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02-18-2012, 07:22 PM #250
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We've already been over this. You just don't like my argument, because, by your assumption, it's wrong. You don't really have a counter-argument.
You want me to prove that knowledge and truth make sense without God, when all you've done is assume they don't. You have drawn no logical correlation between the two, showing why God is necessary for them to make sense. There is no logic behind your claim.
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02-18-2012, 11:10 PM #251
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02-18-2012, 11:31 PM #252
Why does a God need to exist? It is for our own benefit to cooperate with others and help each other out. You know why? Because 5 are better than one. By yourself you have no chance against a bear in the wilderness. If you have 5 people with you, there is a much higher probability that you can outwit and kill the animal than if you were by yourself. If you help out ten people to build their houses, chances are when it's time for you to build a house they will help you too, and you will construct it at least 10 times faster than you would alone. Mutual benefit. This is how it began. You know this yourself - it's how friendships start. Do you honestly go up to a random person on the street and ask them to be your companion in God because God likes good people getting along? Or is it because something caused you to bond with the person, such as helping each other out in some situation.
As much as you wish to believe that you're a pure being from the start, you're not. You're good because being "good" usually gets rewarded in today's society. Good boys get a pat on the head and a chocolate. Bad boys get smacked and sent to time-out. Why do you think the Inquisition and a number of "Godly" organisations were so ****ed up and brutal? Because they finally got sanctioned right to torture and kill. They were always a piece of ****, they were just prevented from killing their own people by their society so they chose a more socially accepted form of torture and murder.
Wanna know the deepest reason you believe in God?
What happened when you were 5 years old and the monsters didn't let you sleep and you lay awake terrified in your bed? What happened when you had nightmares? You'd wake up and cry a little and your parents would come in and sit with you and talk and comfort you and reassure you that everything was safe. As you grow up you realise that your parents are mortal humans, and will be gone at some point. Who then will protect you from the darkness of the night? From that dark unknown we all have to face one day? The easy thing to do is run to religion. Believe and even if you die, you have heaven as the afterlife.
Instead of seeing the world for the dark place it is and spending your lives trying to make it a better place, you choose to stick your head in the sand and "believe" and "pray" and think you're making a difference.
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02-19-2012, 03:46 AM #253
I already did this for you.
A proposition is true if and only if it corresponds to the facts.
A belief is knowledge if and only if it is true and it is justified.
No god necessary. As a matter of fact, this model is actually infinitely preferable to any which relies on God (or any other omnipotent being) to bridge the gaps, because it doesn't require any unverifiable and unfalsifiable assumptions.
There is good reason to believe that there is no afterlife, and no evidence to suggest that there is. The concept of a soul (or spirit, or whatever piques your fancy) is dependent on that of the mind. If a soul did exist but without a mind, then it would be wholly unlike anything imagined by modern theists. And we know lots about the mind, including its relations to the brain. If you damage the brain you damage the mind. We know that problems in the brain can lead to any number of problems in the mind, including loss of memory, of speech capabilities, of self-consciousness, and of reasoning, to name a few. It's completely illogical to imagine that destroying the brain in its entirety would have the opposite effect and that someone would go on experiencing existence after death with all their mental faculties intact.
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02-19-2012, 07:25 AM #254
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02-20-2012, 11:45 PM #255
This solves nothing. It's all contingent, all says nothing about truth. If you want to deny the knowledge of truth, that's your prerogative, but you're wrong and always will be.
You're existence is based on unveified and unfalsified assumptions, as I've explained to you ad nauseum.
Every civilisation in existence bar the modern West had belief in the soul. but that's by the by. There is as good a reason to believe in an afterlife, than there is to not believe in one.
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02-20-2012, 11:56 PM #256
I do not accept an objective truth. At least, in any way that I can understand and therefore is relevant to me. Instead, I accept what I can see, touch, feel, smell, and taste. Empiricism is my best bet. There is no point (to me) in entertaining thoughts of an objective truth beyond its value in amusement and intellectual masturbation. I DO operate and act with the assumption of an objective truth while simultaneously denying its objective nature and deal with this cognitive dissonance because it's honestly more easy to do so than to go about life wondering "is any of this real?" I.e., I assume my senses aren't lying to me (a practical compromise, given that senses are our only way of interacting with the world), and if anything doesn't go against them, I assume it to be completely true.
Voila! Integrity of lack of faith maintained! Smart argument though
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02-21-2012, 12:01 AM #257
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02-21-2012, 12:10 AM #258
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02-21-2012, 12:11 AM #259
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02-21-2012, 12:11 AM #260
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02-21-2012, 12:12 AM #261
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02-21-2012, 12:15 AM #262
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02-21-2012, 12:20 AM #263
- Join Date: May 2007
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your implications come off as assumptions. a general truth about the universe exists and that's about as far as your argument proves
"ultimate truth" is about as laughable a term as "ultra fact", and you'll have to do a hell of a lot more than write two lines to convince anyone that the existence of fact implies in any way that a god of any non-distorted definition existsWe're All Gonna Make It, Brahs
RIP Zyzz
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02-21-2012, 12:22 AM #264
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02-21-2012, 12:26 AM #265
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02-21-2012, 03:32 PM #266
Theories of knowledge and of truth are contingent, yes. If you don't like that, boo-hoo. If, instead, you don't understand it (as seems to be the problem) go take a course in both epistemology and metaphysics.
You're existence is based on unveified and unfalsified assumptions, as I've explained to you ad nauseum.
Every civilisation in existence bar the modern West had belief in the soul. but that's by the by. There is as good a reason to believe in an afterlife, than there is to not believe in one.
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02-27-2012, 03:02 AM #267
You can shove your post-modern, contradictory, "there is no truth" **** up your arse. It's patently false.
Descartes' cogito is pure assertion. It tells us nothing of the human condition.
No you didn't. You constructed some absurd fantasy about the mind, and then speculated on it. That's absolute ****e.
Plato and Aristotle both believed in the concept of a soul. I'm in better company than you.
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02-27-2012, 02:09 PM #268
That wasn't a post-modern or relativistic assertion. I'm not saying that there is no such thing as truth, nor that truth is relative to the individual. However, in order to assert that truth exists, it's necessary to choose which criteria by which we evaluate truth, otherwise called a theory of truth. You learn this on the first day of any metaphysics course. The criteria used is correspondence to fact, not some Platonic ideal. Given the null hypothesis, your argument is patently false.
Descartes' cogito is pure assertion. It tells us nothing of the human condition.
No you didn't. You constructed some absurd fantasy about the mind, and then speculated on it. That's absolute ****e.
Plato and Aristotle both believed in the concept of a soul. I'm in better company than you.
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02-27-2012, 03:13 PM #269
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