Bodybuilding poor value for money.

[AlanApe]

Wake up: 40g oats, 1 scoop ON whey 1/2 scoop ON casein. Sometimes a coffee, depending on what time I wake up.

Breakfast: (2 hrs later) Eggs. (either three poached, or six scrambled (1 Yolk), and two slices of rye bread or wholegrain bread.

Snack: Whey Protein shake

Lunch: source of protein (normally aim for about 30g - chicken, salmon, tuna etc), some carbs (about 30g) always low GI, vegetables or salad.

Snack: Why protein Shake

Dinner: Source of protein (as above), sometimes carbs (if I think I need them) vegetables

Bedtime: Cottage cheese, or if I've not got any in or am short of time a ON casein protein shake.




Average about 6.5 per night on a good night.

Sometimes as low as 4.



Not trained in the gym since week before Xmas.

Initially I was training 2 or 3 days per week, then upped it to 4. Then after a year or so perhaps a bit longer began dropping it to 2 or 3 again.

Started off 2 days (Upper body, lower body), 3 days would be alternating upper body and lower body. 4 days would be chest, back, legs shoulders.

Concentrate mainly on compound exercises, not isolation. Mainly because I can't be arsed doing bicep curls or tricep pull-downs until I've put on size first.

Compounds would be bench presses, squats, leg presses, dead-lifts, clean & press etc.

I'm not strong at all. Feel as weak as a baby lamp sometimes, so stopped attending a gym and went to a strongman (yeah, I got a few strange looks).



About an hour & a half.

I'll be honest with you. I made progress the first three months. My training & diet obviously weren't bang on, but I had no stress and belived that eating fairly well and training I'd succeed. I pulled a stomach hernia in the gym, and had to have surgery and lost two months training, and all the muscle I'd gained.

Back to stage 1 again. Since then, I've achieved **** all. Wanted to bulk as quick as possible so eat as much as I could (i used to be fat eating 3,000 is easy), but just went round my waste, I panicked and stopped after about 4 weeks - 6 weeks.

I am a bit of a stress head. Get wound up very quickly, but to be honest weight training (and the lack of gains from it is all i'm stressed about in life), everything else is sweet.

I do think a bit that in the past I've trained well, and eaten well, but again, if I'm being honest not both at the same times all the time.

**** knows mate, I'm clueless now. Given up with my body, no idea what the problem is, so you're the man with experience, I'll let you decipher my answers.

What do you reckon?

As for diet, that's how I eat now still. Training, I've put on hold as you know because I've just sort of lost faith in my body really, as silly as that may sound.

With regards steroids, it's not for me to judge or cast opinion on anybody. I do know that I was probably the only person in my last gym who didn't use them, and have spend time researching cycles, but to be honest I don't really want to go down that route as a saviour, there is a flicker of enthusiasm yet that doesn't want to give up and wants to achive something naturally (if it's actually possible).

Over to you fella....

Well, based ONLY on this information it has taken me 5 minuts to determine the following (bear in mind I gave you the benefit of adding the "sometimes carbs" for your dinner. So here goes your nutrition:

Protein = 187g
Carbs = 125g
Fat = 21g
Calories = 1531

Now a 157lbs man would not put on muscle on 1500 calories a day. Your Fat intake was attorciously low - no wonder you were aching and suffering from DOMS all the time - fat is ESSENTIAL for the proper function of the body and for repair. 40% of your protein was quick absorbing Whey protein.

Now tell us again, based on this, how the above allowed you to gain muscle mass? You say you eat a lot? I'm currently on a cut and I consume approx 66% MORE than you did when you were trying to gain muscle! When I want to put on bulk, my calories go up to 3200 for a steady 0.5 to 1;bs gain per week or so. That's DOUBLE what you were on!

So now, lets go back a step - your diet was INADEQUATE. So that defuncts your argument on diet.

Next, post your full routine including rest, excercises, sets, reps etc.

See where this is going. You THINK you are genetically fu*ked, but really you just were WAY off on diet to begin with.

Seriously - post your routine.

[AlanApe]

Wow - you edited that with the workout regime whilst I was pasting the quote! Very unnerving. Anyway, will look at the routine later - going home now.

[justinjude]

Well, you need to change your diet around.

As far As I can see at the moment, you need more dietary fats- try adding a tbsp or two of peanut butter to some of those meals.

Your fiber is also low, eat some more fresh fruits- blueberries and apples are both great additions.

Don't be afraid of carbs- nor whole foods... Supplements are ok, but they're made for that, supplementing a normal well balanced diet.

How much water do you drink during the day? I'll work out, will be great, wake up the next day fine, and booze a Little at night, then the muscles will be sore. Make sure you drink more water.

If you haven't completely given up, it's easy to save face here and pick back up. You've seen people are passionate about helping others, and even more passionate about what we do (I'm relatively new to the game, but Im passionate as hell.)

It's easy to give advice, for sure- but I'll admit to you right now- I'm busting my ass trying to fix my diet WITHOUT 750$ a month.

Im no professional, but I'd be more than willing to help you with a diet, or a list of foods/suggestions to eat while training. Also, comb through the BS and take some pointers from beginning strength trainers. (5/3/1, starting strength, etc.) you basically have to start over, but it's not that bad.

And yes, you'll gain some fat, but you'll also notice your strength will go up.

Try getting a little more sleep too. Melanin (or is it melatonin?) acts as a nice sleep aid... Also working out in the morning has shown to improve sleep.

Can't expect to gain when you don't give your body time to recover.



Balls in your court.

[Animalwannabe]

Look at my log. I'm gaining on my diet. I have everything I ate listed in cups/grams and it costs me less then 5 american dollars a day. I'm gaining strength as well. I would not suggest the fasting deal, its gimmicky and I'll be changing the name of my log to reflect that.

[ShaunJ1380]

My sentiments exactly sounds like you had a bad trainer and a bunch of magic pills as well as a fat loss diet. Can't gain muscle like that. Also knowing your trainer is sh$# how do you really know you have only gained 1 lb of muscle??? Body comp measurements are difficult even for people who know what they are doing

Bad trainer indeed.

Like the OP I decided to get one to show me the exercises and come up with a "plan". I found out real quick he knew wtf he was talking about. It ended up being a mix between riptoes and all pros guide. I had been reading these forums for weeks before getting the guy. I made a good choice.

[AlanApe]

Kent, this is encouraging. Your last post shows that you can gain muscle. Its just a fact of life that sometimes you get injuries that sets you back.

I suspect again from your workout details that you may not have been fully clued up. You should have a clear indication as to the excercises, sets and rep ranges, which you dont really mention. Also 4 hours sleep a night = NO GROWTH. the recommended minimum is 8hrs a night, and this has been proven to help muscle recovery. 6 hours is still low, but sometomes that cant be helped.

If you are on the same diet now, then you have either put on a lot of fat in the last few months, or you have demonstrated clearly why you were not gaining muscle. 3000 cals may have been too high for you. Your best bet is always to find out your typical energy expenditure and either taking away 300 - 500 cals for cut or adding 300-500 cals for gain. Potentially, your TEE could be around 2000, therefore a 3000 calorie diet would have added a lot of fat. This is why you need to work it out accurately and monitor your intake precisely and monitor bodyfat.

Your routine needs to be disciplined (har to tell from your post as its a bit vague). Again, I can tell you on an exact date, what excercises I did, number of sets and reps and rest times. None of my workouts are longer than 60 minutes, including warm-up.

I get the strong feeling from your last post that your routine and diet and rest profiles were just wrong or off the mark, resulting in lack of progress. Honestly, from what you have posted, I can tell you now - you CAN NOT cite genetics or poor hormonal performance on your lack of progress. It is due to a weakly designed training, nutrition and rest profile.

See - we are now making progress!

[Kent80]

Kent, this is encouraging. Your last post shows that you can gain muscle. Its just a fact of life that sometimes you get injuries that sets you back.

I suspect again from your workout details that you may not have been fully clued up. You should have a clear indication as to the excercises, sets and rep ranges, which you dont really mention. Also 4 hours sleep a night = NO GROWTH. the recommended minimum is 8hrs a night, and this has been proven to help muscle recovery. 6 hours is still low, but sometomes that cant be helped.

If you are on the same diet now, then you have either put on a lot of fat in the last few months, or you have demonstrated clearly why you were not gaining muscle. 3000 cals may have been too high for you. Your best bet is always to find out your typical energy expenditure and either taking away 300 - 500 cals for cut or adding 300-500 cals for gain. Potentially, your TEE could be around 2000, therefore a 3000 calorie diet would have added a lot of fat. This is why you need to work it out accurately and monitor your intake precisely and monitor bodyfat.

Your routine needs to be disciplined (har to tell from your post as its a bit vague). Again, I can tell you on an exact date, what excercises I did, number of sets and reps and rest times. None of my workouts are longer than 60 minutes, including warm-up.

I get the strong feeling from your last post that your routine and diet and rest profiles were just wrong or off the mark, resulting in lack of progress. Honestly, from what you have posted, I can tell you now - you CAN NOT cite genetics or poor hormonal performance on your lack of progress. It is due to a weakly designed training, nutrition and rest profile.

See - we are now making progress!

Hi, thanks for getting back to me. Sorry for the delayed reply. Very busy all weekend, not had time to get online.

With regards workouts, they've changed lots over the past eighteen months. Always concentrated on compound moves: bench press, squats, deadlifts etc, usually about 6-8 reps, 2 mins rest, 4 sets. I've read so much different information over this period of time regarding keep changing the amount of reps, and exercises, that I'm not really sure at all what is right and what is wrong.

Typical legs day, for instance, would be: squats, less press, leg extensions, leg curls, walking lunges with light barbell for resistance. Just ask what you want to know, as I don't really know what you're asking?

Chest: flat, incline, decline pressing movements. fly, cables etc.

With regards sleep, I always go to bed fairly early, but never sleep easily. Been okay lately, but when I'm training, I don't sleep easily.

I have gained a bit of fat in the last three months, but not enough to go up a waste size in jeans. Don't really understand that much about diet, just eaten what I was advised, and stuck to it. Never heard of TEE.

Again, I haven't designed my training and diet, because this isn't my area of expertise in life. Put it this way: if my car has a problem I go to a mechanic, ask them to fix it. With regards my body I'll do whatever it takes, and diet, but all I wanted was to be advised of what I needed from day 1. Maybe I was wrong, maybe I should have spend time reading rather than being over enthusiastic and wanting to get in a gym straight away, but that's my only mistake as far as I can see.

I find the whole science part behind this, the most difficult part by a mile. Read an article the other day which said that for every 10 new members to join gyms in UK, only 1 of those is still going after 6 months. I can believe that. Most gyms just want members money, to tie them into contracts but offer little advice or education.

I appreciate your help I really do, you seem like a decent enough guy, but I find this more baffling now than when I started. Initially I was really excited and enthusiastic, now I'm just daunted and confused.

[Kent80]

Also, forgot to add this, not sure whether it's important or irrelevant:

All the while I was eating what I liked, not caring about my health or weight I was fairly happy.

It's only since I stated trying to eat well, lose fat and gain muscle this whole process has made me miserable and depressive for the first time in my life.

Not really sure what direction to take. I don't really want to give up in the gym because I'm a bad loser and don't like accepting defeat in anything, but just a bit concerned about what weight training (or more specifically the lack of results) is doing to my mental health.

[AlanApe]

You find it confusing becuse you were given 5hit advice by a personal trained who was probably only good enough to flirt with older ladies on the stationary bike.

It really, really is simple. There are a number of ways to gain strength and muscle. You can do a routien like StartingStrength, or do a split. You can train 3 days a week of 5 days a werek. You can do cardio or not do cardio. You can lift inm the 3 to 7 rep range or 6 to 12 rep range. It doesnt rally matter - it forces the body to grow.

Where it is evidence from your last two postings, its been your diet that has been ****. You said yourself you thought you were eating loads, but i calculated it as 1500 calories, which is more of a cutting diet. You would never grow muscle or gain real strength with that diet.

Diet really is simple. there are LOADS of guidance on the Nutrition section of this site that tells you how to calculate your basal metabolic rate, take into consideration your activity levels, and then into consideration if you want to lose weight or put on mass. That part is given in great detail under "nutrition".

Then you have the diet itself. You can have 40% protein, 40% carbs. 20% fat. OR you can have 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fat, or you can have..... see - theres a wide variety of balance that you can have that will help you gain. Its not an exact science. What is advised though is that you aim for at leat 1 to 1.2g protein per lbs bodyweight. And you should ideally have at least 20% of your daily calories from fat, including saturated fat.

So its simple. Work out your daily TEE (all the energy you typically expend in a day - see "Nutrition section"), add 500 calories per day to that for mass gain, take away 500 cals if you want to lose fat. But this is NOT a magic numbe - it can be 300, 400 or 600 cals either way - its just a guide. But if you dont eat enough, you wont grow.

It is not an accurate science. there are MANY ways to build muscle and gain strength. But none will work if your nutrirtion is off. What you need to do is record what you eat. Count your macros (Protein, Carbs and Fats) and calories. I used to think I was eating loads until I recorded everything and realised I was on 2000 cals a day, but needed to be at 3000.

Recording your macros and cals is easy - just read the labels, and if its fresh stuff, just weigh it, and check on various online sites for info.

As for me - I've so far consumed 120g protein, 196g carbs and 49g fat. My calories are 1718. I now know that I need to eat more protein and fat this afternoon, so i cater for that. I worked out first thing this morning, hence the high carbs from first thing. I just taper it down this afternoon so I can eat fats and protein this afternoon to hit my daily calorie target.

Easy and effective

[Kent80]

Thanks for the info. I will check out the nutrition section and try to calculate my daily calorie requirements.

I visited the doctor today for antibiotics for an eye infection. I mentioned to him about low testosterone and he said in his opinion he thought it was highly unlikely.

I have to go back to a consultant about my epigastric hernia because it will need surgery again as it has torn (again) but hopefully with mesh this time.

I have lost weight. My weight is now 66kg which is the lightest I can remember being. Unusual, but I suspect that I've lost muscle but gained fat.

[justinjude]

Thanks for the info. I will check out the nutrition section and try to calculate my daily calorie requirements.

I visited the doctor today for antibiotics for an eye infection. I mentioned to him about low testosterone and he said in his opinion he thought it was highly unlikely.

I have to go back to a consultant about my epigastric hernia because it will need surgery again as it has torn (again) but hopefully with mesh this time.

I have lost weight. My weight is now 66kg which is the lightest I can remember being. Unusual, but I suspect that I've lost muscle but gained fat.

Best of luck with your surgery!

Diet and nutrition isn't always fun. In fact, it kinda sucks.

However, it's all the way you look at it. Personally, I find it more like a building. If you don't have the correct amount of xyz, it won't look right. Colors were another thing, imagine RGB numbers.

It makes me very happy knowing that you took everything into consideration and started fresh. This right here shows that you are ALREADY MAKING PROGRESS.

have you tried using myfitnesspal? It's a fun app that tracks macros. You can find me on there as justinjood.

Take a look at the link in my signature, gives you an idea of what some of. Us go through on a daily basis.

The good news is, you're no longer some git that people are trying to suckered money out of. You're kinda a part of something bigger. Really, you were the second you posted weeks ago.

Keep it up, let us know howthings are going, preferably in a new thread.

[AlanApe]

If a clean diet makes you miserable, then change it. It wont make huge difference, as long as you dont consume a lot of empty calories (sugar based calories). Get your 1 to 1.5g protein per lb of lean bodyweight, get 20% of your calories from fat, the rest as complex carbs, then eat what you want.

It should be fun. It is possible to be happy whilst you train. If anything makes you not happy, change it. If you genuinely hate lifting, then dont lift. Dont stress yourself about it.

[Kent80]

Two images as promised, taken about 1 hr ago. I'm at my lightest weight here as I haven't trained since December. Weighed Wednesday at 66kg, weight two years ago was 86kg.

These photos show perfectly the lack of muscle but too high body-fat, especially around the middle. A rare-breed of fat ectomorph.

Thanks for the advice though. I won't say I'm going to 'stick at it' because there's no point sticking to a plan which hasn't yielded results, but I am going to continue, get the diet sorted, and I have read good things about starting strength program.

[Kent80]

http://postimage.org/image/hwp5y5265/

http://postimage.org/image/j8ixd16cb/

Sorry, tried but **** with computers and no idea how to upload them.

[BloodySalad]

Thanks for the advice though. I won't say I'm going to 'stick at it' because there's no point sticking to a plan which hasn't yielded result

Go find something else to do. Seriously. Weight lifting isn't for you. I wouldn't bother with bicycles either. You have to put work in even with them and from the sounds of it, you just don't have a pair.
Reading this thread, 3 months later and you're still whining. If you're like this in RL, you must be one annoying, little **** to know.

I think I've only ever negged one person. You're the second.

[Kent80]

Go find something else to do. Seriously. Weight lifting isn't for you. I wouldn't bother with bicycles either. You have to put work in even with them and from the sounds of it, you just don't have a pair.
Reading this thread, 3 months later and you're still whining. If you're like this in RL, you must be one annoying, little **** to know.

I think I've only ever negged one person. You're the second.

I didn't say I was going to quit, did I?

But 'sticking at it' would mean continuing with what has failed in the past. I'm on about starting again with a different diet and training. You're either as thick as two short planks, or just one argumentative no mark. Either way, go and bore somebody else.

You've negged me. You're a 43 year-old man and you've wasted you time negging me?!?! Are you for ****ing real? haha.

[BloodySalad]

I might be 43 but you're 32 and you're whining like a 4 year old girl. Negging you is the virtual kick up the ass you'd get in real life if I were to run into you.
Seriously, the last thing you need to do is comment on other peoples' ages when you're acting like such an immature, spoilt, little brat. I've got a 3 year old boy with a bigger pair of balls than you've got. He doesn't cry like a biatch when the going gets a little bit bumpy.
Grow the feck up you big baby.

But 'sticking at it' would mean continuing with what has failed in the past.

Sticking at it means you'd have to do some work. You failed in the past. Blaming it on the routine or the diet only shows you as a waster looking for excuses. It's not going to matter what advice people here give you - you're destined to be a failure for life with your pansy attitude.

[Uberknee]

Enjoy life as a weak, skinny fat ****.

Also GTFO of BODYBUILDING.COM and never return.

You got completed ripped off cause you are a fool. I spend about $200/month on bodybuilding (not including food).

[justinjude]

With a reach like that why aren't you boxing

[Kent80]

I might be 43 but you're 32 and you're whining like a 4 year old girl. Negging you is the virtual kick up the ass you'd get in real life if I were to run into you.
Seriously, the last thing you need to do is comment on other peoples' ages when you're acting like such an immature, spoilt, little brat. I've got a 3 year old boy with a bigger pair of balls than you've got. He doesn't cry like a biatch when the going gets a little bit bumpy.
Grow the feck up you big baby.



Sticking at it means you'd have to do some work. You failed in the past. Blaming it on the routine or the diet only shows you as a waster looking for excuses. It's not going to matter what advice people here give you - you're destined to be a failure for life with your pansy attitude.

Haha. Stop flirting with me.

[dizalwizal]

bet you never did a 20 rep squat @ 85% you ****ing ***got , but instead counted miligrams of food

[Phil9]

Cliffs:


OP is giving up because he supposedly only gained 1 lb of muscle.

Dumped thousands into supplements and personal trainers.

Never once mentions his diet until late in the thread, which is the most essential part of bodybuilding. Diet turns out to be a failure.

[UpInSmoke]

That's why in the size I am now, because of just genetics? Lol no. Hard work, nutrition/diet, and knowledge did it. It's pretty much mathematics and physiology.. . And knowledge based faith. When you know your body and mind, and know what is the right way to do things. It's so much easier to get results. You did it wrong. Retry, after you learn from it. Take what you need and move on. Or give up. Your choice.

[Malachai]

question for you guys... what do you guys think about these products. I'm going on vacation in 2 months so I would like to look some what okay.. hahah
MusclePharm:
Shred Matrix

Grenade:
Thermo Detonator

[davesterrr]

There's people that get ripped and in shape who train outside, mostly body weight exercises like push ups , dips and pull ups for free.
Training doesn't have to be expensive and if you're trying to lose weight it will actually save you money from buying all that extra food.
Also it's not rocket science.
Saying i can't change my body due to genetics is bs.
People in wheelchairs have made great changes.
Anyone can change their body with the right dedication, hard work, consistency and good diet/routine.
You're just an idiot for spendin 500 pounds a month on chit and now trying to find a justifiable excuse for not going to the gym.

Ps: Lol @ eating as much as he can so he can gain the most muscle asap.
It doesn't work that way...
No wonder you got fat.

[Kent80]

Didn't give up. Been in training for two months now, in the gym three or four times per week.

Haven't really noticed any gains yet, but I won't throw in the towel, and will remain patient.

[Kent80]

Ps: Lol @ eating as much as he can so he can gain the most muscle asap.
It doesn't work that way...
No wonder you got fat.

Realise that now, wish being new to it that I hadn't listened to generic advice in here such as 'eat big'. Yeah right.