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  1. #1
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Guess who has low T?...:) Can you still make progress?

    I was not going to share this and I am still coming to gripps with this myslef....but there is so much made of this on the forum. Lots of guys with all kinds of excuses of why they dont progress. Well guys...

    I have recently found out I am actually clinically hypogonadal by definition. (not a title I ever wanted) Although my total is avg range...my free is BELOW the bottom of the scale (remember it is free test that actually matters as it is the only form useable by your body). I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )

    Here is a link...but pretty scary stuff
    http://www.worldhealth.net/pdf/Gordon_Thera10.pdf

    Anyway....just goes to show that test levels are not the end all be all of progress. Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about ), I have managed to make quite good progress this year. Dont believe it just check out my logs. So to that I say...people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress.

    Sorry just venting....been a tough week....I am going to workout with my 'girlie man' test levels
    Last edited by induced_drag; 01-13-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
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  2. #2
    Master Roshi IronCharles's Avatar
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    You look pretty jacked for a guy with "low test". Keep up the good work!













    Oh, and in before Monty attributes your success to positive thinking!
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  3. #3
    deracate chinese frower Mindi912's Avatar
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    Geez how are we gonna have kids now.
    Perfection in mind, perfect body!

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  4. #4
    Þórr vigi Minotaur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I have recently found out I am actually clinically hypogonadal by definition. (not a title I ever wanted) Although my total is avg range...my free is BELOW the bottom of the scale (remember it is free test that actually matters as it is the only form useable by your body). I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )
    I have secondary hypogonadism; secondary to hypopituitarism. I do not produce the LH (luteinizing hormone) to tell the boys to make T. It's probably from having had the **** beat out of me when I was 13. I also have almost no sense of smell.

    My last Total T reading was 181. I damn near fell off the examining table because I have no problem... uh... well... you know... The year before that it was 800; 1500; 1400; 700... all on the same dosage of replacement. And I had no problem... uh... well... you know... Go figure. Though doc said that the high numbers were from the workouts. Why? I do not know, if I don't produce it. But coincidentally when I stopped working out, my T plummeted. I'm waiting for this week's results.

    Anyway....just goes to show that test levels are not the end all be all of progress. Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about ), I have managed to make quite good progress this year. Dont believe it just check out my logs. So to that I say...people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress.
    ^ This.
    "Go home, have a beer and smash something. That's what I would do" - Unknown (but probably Thor).
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  5. #5
    Þórr vigi Minotaur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mindi912 View Post
    Geez how are we gonna have kids now.
    If his FSH is normal, he can still make the little soldiers.
    "Go home, have a beer and smash something. That's what I would do" - Unknown (but probably Thor).
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  6. #6
    The Mind MontyMagpie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I was not going to share this and I am still coming to gripps with this myslef....but there is so much made of this on the forum. Lots of guys with all kinds of excuses of why they dont progress. Well guys...

    I have recently found out I am actually clinically hypogonadal by definition. (not a title I ever wanted) Although my total is avg range...my free is BELOW the bottom of the scale (remember it is free test that actually matters as it is the only form useable by your body). I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )

    Here is a link...but pretty scary stuff
    http://www.worldhealth.net/pdf/Gordon_Thera10.pdf

    Anyway....just goes to show that test levels are not the end all be all of progress. Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about ), I have managed to make quite good progress this year. Dont believe it just check out my logs. So to that I say...people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress.

    Sorry just venting....been a tough week....I am going to workout with my 'girlie man' test levels
    I would have never knew. You are pretty beefed up as well.
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  7. #7
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    You look pretty jacked for a guy with "low test". Keep up the good work!




    Oh, and in before Monty attributes your success to positive thinking!

    Thanks IC....that means a lot coming from you.

    Originally Posted by Mindi912 View Post
    Geez how are we gonna have kids now.
    Well girl....there is a big ocean seperating us....dont think my little boys can swim that far .... Not sure how my wife would feel about that one




    Yea....I am not wanting to act like I am feeling sorry for myslef...but this is depressing! The accident was a lot to get over and I would be kidding myself to think I would ever fully escape it....but just when it was becoming a faded memory.....this.

    I just was not feeling 'right' so I asked to have him check some things at my physical. I could sleep 14 hrs a day if I had the chance to...and even then I feel like I am dragging a little. A bunch of other things too.....but you guys know...

    The only bright spots (energy wise) of my day are my workouts. I actually feel like I am making the best progress of my life! Just confirms my thoughts that proper nutrition trumps almost everything when it comes to progress in the gym. (at least it has proven to be so for me).

    Well I'll check back in....but I am off to play some poker! Big game tonight.
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  8. #8
    Bulking freebirdmac's Avatar
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    I wouldn't get depressed about something that's fixable. Loads of people need meds for insufficient hormones. I'm hypothyroid myself. Wonder if you'll feel the same way once your levels are up. Being bummed can be a symptom too
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  9. #9
    All my PRs are history HoustonTXMuscle's Avatar
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    Have to agree with what the others have said in regard your being jacked. Admire your attitude re: "people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress."
    Inactivity Kills!!!

    My journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140991491 Age is NOT an acceptable excuse.

    Played with dinosaurs as a child. Back then everyone was thin; it was a matter of out-running the raptors or being one of their meals.
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  10. #10
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    According to all the wannabe endocrinologists who post in this forum all you have to do is squat, eat steak, and have sex and your testosterone levels will be fine. Try that and report back.
    "I'm a street walking cheetah with a heart full of napalm." -Iggy and The Stooges
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I was not going to share this and I am still coming to gripps with this myslef....but there is so much made of this on the forum. Lots of guys with all kinds of excuses of why they dont progress. Well guys...

    I have recently found out I am actually clinically hypogonadal by definition. (not a title I ever wanted) Although my total is avg range...my free is BELOW the bottom of the scale (remember it is free test that actually matters as it is the only form useable by your body). I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )

    Here is a link...but pretty scary stuff
    http://www.worldhealth.net/pdf/Gordon_Thera10.pdf

    Anyway....just goes to show that test levels are not the end all be all of progress. Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about ), I have managed to make quite good progress this year. Dont believe it just check out my logs. So to that I say...people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress.

    Sorry just venting....been a tough week....I am going to workout with my 'girlie man' test levels
    Your an inspiration to us all Induced_Drag. Keep up the good work, and good luck with the poker game!
    Get your ass in the gym period!
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  12. #12
    Registered User geer_matt's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OutOfStep View Post
    According to all the wannabe endocrinologists who post in this forum all you have to do is squat, eat steak, and have sex and your testosterone levels will be fine. Try that and report back.
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  13. #13
    The Mind MontyMagpie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoustonTXMuscle View Post
    Admire your attitude re: "people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress."
    Bitches keep bitchin. Primal Scream tells us so. They ain't gonna change.
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  14. #14
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OutOfStep View Post
    According to all the wannabe endocrinologists who post in this forum all you have to do is squat, eat steak, and have sex and your testosterone levels will be fine. Try that and report back.
    Having sex when your T levels are in the toilet doesn't work so well.
    "You know that little thing in your head that keeps you from saying things you shouldn't? Yeah, well, I don't have one of those."
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  15. #15
    Registered User RelaxTheBody's Avatar
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    Young brah checking in....

    My t is below the scale also.

    Endo said i have the levels of an 80 year old man! Currently going through a few piturary gland tests but expect to be put on testosterone replacement therapy for the rest f my life. Doesnt bother me because if it can help me ditch the way i feel now i would do any thing.

    Peace out over 35 misc
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  16. #16
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    Just went thru my blood test with my doc...there are many things to consider with the label "low test". There is about 5 markers and specifically how they relate to each other, that will determine if there is a problem. You really need 7 years of university (Endo) to call "low test". The fact that you have the body you do proves this.
    Don't sweat it

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    Originally Posted by OutOfStep View Post
    According to all the wannabe endocrinologists who post in this forum all you have to do is squat, eat steak, and have sex and your testosterone levels will be fine. Try that and report back.
    And get a good 8 hours sleep. When we sleep testosterone levels peak. The more uninterrupted sleep, the more testosterone. It’s that simple.

    http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Sleep.aspx

    I'm getting 8-10hrs everyday.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    The only bright spots (energy wise) of my day are my workouts. I actually feel like I am making the best progress of my life! Just confirms my thoughts that proper nutrition trumps almost everything when it comes to progress in the gym.
    this. one of my training partners has been on HRT for over two years and every time he goes off because his levels are too high to get another prescription, his performance goes to sh*t. and it goes fast. i don't have anything against him for it but i like to point out that consistent hard work, proper nutrition and having a plan work better for me than gearing up. plus his puffy, gyno nips are creepy
    225OHP/315B/420S/505D

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    Low test, and you still look way better than I do ! ....and I had my T levels checked. Pretty average at 419 ng / dl.

    BTW, when I say my genetics suck, or that I have a really hard time gaining muscle, I wouldn't say that was bitching. It's just the fact of the matter, like it or not. Just means I have to try 10 X's harder.... or try just as hard, for 1/10th the gains, depending on how you look at it. Obviously I haven't let it stop me from trying.

    Anyway, man ! It sounds like you had a REALLY bad, accident there ! Your probably lucky to be here, huh ?

    Oh, and if your Dr. says your test is way low, that's fine. He needs to do his job, and take care of that situation for you Then again, as jacked as you are now, maybe you don't need any more T

    Keep at it,
    Fish
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    Chin up bud. This is 2012. you have great options. Look into them.

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    I was not going to share this and I am still coming to gripps with this myslef....but there is so much made of this on the forum. Lots of guys with all kinds of excuses of why they dont progress. Well guys...

    I have recently found out I am actually clinically hypogonadal by definition. (not a title I ever wanted) Although my total is avg range...my free is BELOW the bottom of the scale (remember it is free test that actually matters as it is the only form useable by your body). I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )

    Here is a link...but pretty scary stuff
    http://www.worldhealth.net/pdf/Gordon_Thera10.pdf

    Anyway....just goes to show that test levels are not the end all be all of progress. Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about ), I have managed to make quite good progress this year. Dont believe it just check out my logs. So to that I say...people need to quit bitchin and making excuses of why they cant progress.

    Sorry just venting....been a tough week....I am going to workout with my 'girlie man' test levels
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    Having children lowers your testosterone. I don't have any children. Figures!

    Plunging testosterone may help a man commit to his family and reinforce his focus on caregiving, amping up his sensitivity to his children’s needs.

    http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/1...-testosterone/
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    Originally Posted by howimliving View Post
    this. one of my training partners has been on HRT for over two years and every time he goes off because his levels are too high to get another prescription, his performance goes to sh*t. and it goes fast. i don't have anything against him for it but i like to point out that consistent hard work, proper nutrition and having a plan work better for me than gearing up. plus his puffy, gyno nips are creepy
    Uh.... they don't prescribe hormones to get you above normal levels. And normal range test levels aren't going to get you any "creepy gyno nips". Methinks your training partner isn't telling you the whole story, dude.
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    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Uh.... they don't prescribe hormones to get you above normal levels. And normal range test levels aren't going to get you any "creepy gyno nips". Methinks your training partner isn't telling you the whole story, dude.
    In all honesty .... from the people I know on HRT, it is not at all uncommon for them to have test levels in the 1400 range. Hell .... I know of a few on this very board on HRT who have admitted to having well above the normal range levels. I don't deny that there are those who are legitimately hypogonadal .... but, I also think that a lot of folks around here want "HRT" as an excuse to do a mild cycle, and they find clever ways of getting it prescribed -- I've seen several threads here and elsewhere where guys have asked how to artificially lower their test temporarily so that they can get a prescription.
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    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by howimliving View Post
    like to point out that consistent hard work, proper nutrition and having a plan work better for me than gearing up. plus his puffy, gyno nips are creepy
    Gearing up and gyno nips from TRT? Obviously you have no clue as to the truth of what your buddy is doing nor how TRT works. And how ot why would you call it gearing up if the only goal is to get your test levels back into normal territory?


    Originally Posted by IronCharles View Post
    Uh.... they don't prescribe hormones to get you above normal levels. And normal range test levels aren't going to get you any "creepy gyno nips". Methinks your training partner isn't telling you the whole story, dude.
    Exactly.
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    Funny how we can see a trend around here lately.

    used to be that when guys our age went to the doctor we were diagnosed with high cholesterol and got some meds for it.

    Looks like low t is the new high cholesterol. Good, easy way to get everyone on some more meds.

    just my opinion about it.
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    Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about )
    no wonder you look so appealing to me! AHHAHAHAHAHA......

    actually, buddy, besides giving me even more respect for you, I would like to allude to a similar situation, kind of in reverse, in relation to supplement claims.

    here is a typical shout out from the companies: CLINICALLY PROVEN TO RAISE TEST LEVELS 300-400 PERCENT AFTER INGESTION.

    right.....and you know, they are not lying, however, similar to your situation, where is spite of LOW levels, you are functioning fantastically, jacking UP the levels, artificially, like that, with supps, does not necessarily guarantee a corresponding jump in actual musculature....

    what does all this tell us? the human body is FAR more complex than any of us can possibly imagine, and most important of all: IT IS ADAPTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    which is why, it "finds a way", or, finds ANOTHER WAY to get things done......

    when it WANTS to get something done, it finds an alternative, but, similarly, when it DOESN'T, and you have certain physiological limits, over saturating your body with certain things, whether it is excessive protein, or innumerable supps, will only increase the chance of adverse effects.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI View Post
    no wonder you look so appealing to me! AHHAHAHAHAHA......

    actually, buddy, besides giving me even more respect for you, I would like to allude to a similar situation, kind of in reverse, in relation to supplement claims.

    here is a typical shout out from the companies: CLINICALLY PROVEN TO RAISE TEST LEVELS 300-400 PERCENT AFTER INGESTION.

    right.....and you know, they are not lying, however, similar to your situation, where is spite of LOW levels, you are functioning fantastically, jacking UP the levels, artificially, like that, with supps, does not necessarily guarantee a corresponding jump in actual musculature....

    what does all this tell us? the human body is FAR more complex than any of us can possibly imagine, and most important of all: IT IS ADAPTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    which is why, it "finds a way", or, finds ANOTHER WAY to get things done......

    when it WANTS to get something done, it finds an alternative, but, similarly, when it DOESN'T, and you have certain physiological limits, over saturating your body with certain things, whether it is excessive protein, or innumerable supps, will only increase the chance of adverse effects.
    Outstanding post.
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    Originally Posted by crupiea View Post
    Funny how we can see a trend around here lately.

    used to be that when guys our age went to the doctor we were diagnosed with high cholesterol and got some meds for it.

    Looks like low t is the new high cholesterol. Good, easy way to get everyone on some more meds.

    just my opinion about it.
    Good call.

    I'm sure it's a godsend for those that truly need it but the idea of going on that protocol for the rest of my life does not exactly thrill me.
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  29. #29
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Thank YOU!

    First off....I want to say sincere thanks to those that responded. I also got a bunch of PM's which I appreciate sincerely. I'll answer those back individually. Thank you again for your kind thoughts.

    This is kind of long, but I want to be able to express my thoughts on this.

    This whole thing is kind of strange...and I will share my thoughts candidly, or as best as I can put into words.

    Sure, there have been times where the thought has crossed through my head...."hey wouldnt it be great to be on HRT?"....but a funny thing happens when you are actually presented with a situation where it might be necessary. Suddenly it does not seem like it would be so cool.... There is a sense of permanence to the thought. Also a sense of feeling "broken". For some background, I can't remember having a prescription in the past 20 years, except for pain killers after my accident (and I did not even take those). I might take 2 motrin a YEAR. And for that.....I have to have a headache so bad, well, so bad I feel I need a motrin. I just dont like the idea of taking medication. Supplements....yes...as I feel I have a choice....but not something I feel I need to take.

    The thought that anyone would pursue this route for better gym gains is crazy. If that were the only goal, I think the same "stuff" can be had easier and cheaper on the corner..... And no self respecting Dr, and Endo is going to boost your levels any higher then normal ranges. Sure, one could manipulate that too....but why bother if that is the goal...again, it is cheaper and easier to just get it on the corner if that is your goal.

    This whole thing is kind of ironic for me. I have only been back in gym 10 months. I am making what I feel are the best gains of my life. I switched back up to caloric surplus a while back and have been getting stronger again, the mass is coming...etc... I am even getting new stretch marks opening up. (not something I like, but proof I am growing) Everything is working great!....Almost too good, I actually feel like I am on cruise control to great gains ahead.

    So the gym is great....well what is wrong then. It is everything else. Many of you know I was in a very bad accident 3 years ago. I was the sole survivor of a aircraft crash. I was left with a broken neck and a brain injury. I had amnesia and memory issues. As I have said many times, the broken neck was the easy part of my accident to recover from.....the brain injury was much more difficult.

    After the accident I was determined to change the direction of my life, which is how I got back in the gym after over a decade out. I did good, and was in for almost a year, then we had a major cancer scare with my wife after they found a 10cm tumor in her pelvic area. In the end, it turned out not to be cancer, but had to be removed. This whole ordeal distracted me and put me out of the gym for close to a year. I recommitted in Feb and have been strong ever since.

    Starting about a year and a half ago, I began to notice diminished energy. I really had a hard time getting moving....etc. My solution was usual. I felt I just needed to take better care of myself...eat better...etc. All of which I did and have been doing, yet it has not improved. I think I could sleep 14+ hours and still would not be enough.

    There are other things as well. Some personality changes. I have always been very patient person with my kids. I seem to now struggle to find patience that was so natural before.

    This is a little embarrassing to admit....but I seem to not be able to keep from crying at about any movie. (totally serious and cant believe that I am sharing this). As an example, I watched Kung-Fu panda 2 last weekend with my kids and at the end I was fighting back tears...srs... (OK...please dont give me crap about this...but I am man enough to admit it )

    I have not really suffered 'performance' wise....but my drive....well you know....my desire is waaay down. I think this suits my wife well ....but really had me shaken up. About 6 months back, I even bought some supplements thought to stimulate libido as I just did not feel right.


    Soo...with all that, it led me to the Dr to see if anything was wrong.

    At first I questioned posting this...but now I know I made the right decision. I can not tell you how helpful your guys encouraging words are. This is a very scary thing and feeling 'broken' can be a depressing feeling.

    ON VERY IMPROTANT THING! Read the link about Traumatic Brain Injury that I posted....or know this bit of important info. If you or any of your loved ones ever suffer a head injury, have them do a full hormone panel AT THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENT. This way you will have a base line to compare to see if any damage has occurred. This is even MORE important for younger children and those in puberty. (think of young boys and high school boys in sports). This is very important information and the statistics for long-term effects are staggering. People need to be aware of the dangers.
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    Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    If his FSH is normal, he can still make the little soldiers.
    Drags him back to the Dr's!!!1

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Well girl....there is a big ocean seperating us....dont think my little boys can swim that far .... Not sure how my wife would feel about that one
    *holds breath for a bit*

    *pulls a funny screwed up face*

    *sighs*

    "fine, but I think if you tried hard enough then they could easily swim that far!!!!, what wife?"

    hahahaha just kidding so wifey won't kill you later lol
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