Guess who has low T?...:) Can you still make progress?

[Bo_Flecks]

(totally serious and cant believe that I am sharing this).

The candor in your post is refreshing, ID. By the number of views this thread has there is a lot of interest in the topic. You have no idea who you may have helped out. Props to you.

[StressMonkey]

Sorry that you've got another thing to deal with on top of the accident. You've taken what a lot (most?) people would use as an excuse to half-ass it (or quit) and are fighting back like a warrior. Props to you.

[IronCharles]

I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )......


..... Despite the fact that my levels are less then a girl(Just about ), I have managed to make quite good progress this year.

The only bright spots (energy wise) of my day are my workouts. I actually feel like I am making the best progress of my life!

Is it possible that your body has compensated for the damaged test production by increasing the production of other hormones to try to balance things out? Is it possible that your pituitary is cranking out more HGH? Have you had your HGH levels checked? Certainly, I'm no endocrinologist, but the fact that you're making your best gains after your T production has been lowered by accident makes me wonder if your body is making hormonal adjustments to try and stay in balance.

[Minotaur]

There's something beyond what lab numbers tell you: "How do you feel?" on the whole. Too many doctors treat the numbers and not the patient. Too many doctors worship at the Lab Report Altar and don't see the patient or the symptoms, either way. Some doctors are too eager to prescribe meds just because a lab report indicates an out of range value, when the patient is functioning normally. Other doctors won't prescribe needed meds because the lab report is "borderline", yet the patient feels like ****.

There are a lot of things that go on to produce the numbers on a lab report, and what is going on in your body. Any lab report is a SNAPSHOT in time. T for example is cyclic; as are thyroid hormones; as are cortisol and other adrenal hormones; as is blood sugar. All of them can spike or plummet on a regular basis. Catch them at either point, and whammo... abnormal lab report. That's why lab reports have to be taken with a grain of salt. I know this from personal experience and researching it for over 12 years. You learn things even without being a "wannabe endocrinologist".

[induced_drag]

Is it possible that your body has compensated for the damaged test production by increasing the production of other hormones to try to balance things out? Is it possible that your pituitary is cranking out more HGH? Have you had your HGH levels checked? Certainly, I'm no endocrinologist, but the fact that you're making your best gains after your T production has been lowered by accident makes me wonder if your body is making hormonal adjustments to try and stay in balance.

After the first test came back, they did another more thorough full hormone panel. This was sent to an Endo that my Primary doc confers with. I dont think I have that issue....(wouldnt be a bad one to have though )

Along with depressed Testosterone levels, low HGH is another common side effect after head trauma. After doing some more research, I have read that these hormone changes are very common with as many as 20% suffering these after effects. Most of these cases correct themselves within 12 months. It has been almost 3 years since my accident, so I guess it did not work that way for me.

What I attribute my gains to in the gym is the effect of getting proper nutrition and protein levels....every single day...regardless. It is really the first time in my life I have ever really done this. I used to belong to the club we all know....the "I eat a good diet" club. Translation: I have no clue what I am really taking in on a day to day basis....but I do drink some whey shakes . It was not till I started logging and weighing EVERYTHING....that this became so clear.

It is closest to when in my 20's, I did The Anabolic Diet by Dr Mario DePasquale.(A TKD diet). I also saw significant gains during that time after being stalled for 1 about 2 years. Making that connection, it might be total protein???(given what that diet consists of)...but since overall quality of life is most important to me now, I choose to look at it as my total nutrition.

One strange thing that may or may not have anything to do with my accident....but I have often heard stories of people going grey (hair) after trauma. Before the accident, I did not have any signs of grey. In fact, my hair was (and most still is black). But in the past 1.5 years, I have really started to grey out on the sides in what seems like out of nowhere. I have friends who have greyed out and it seems like for them, it was a much more gradual process. For me I went from nothing to where I caught up and passed many of them in shortly over a years time..... Strange... But I cant say it has anything to do and might just be a coincidence.... My wife likes it.....but I would rather have my old hair back. Before I greyed out on the sides, I still often got carded at 36.

[gray73]

I would like to thank you for this info, ID. Keep up the good work!

[Minotaur]

Along with depressed Testosterone levels, low HGH is another common side effect after head trauma. After doing some more research, I have read that these hormone changes are very common with as many as 20% suffering these after effects. Most of these cases correct themselves within 12 months. It has been almost 3 years since my accident, so I guess it did not work that way for me.

Ah yes... another thing I can vouch for. IGF-1 is tested as the marker for hgh, because hgh is too much of a moving target. Doc put me on Humatrope, hgh replacement. Long story short, my igf-1 was climbing inexplicably even after lowering the dosage. It finally got to the point we stopped the Humatrope altogether. Guess what... ? IGF-1 still kept climbing then leveled off in the mid-range about a year after stopping the Humatrope.

Btw, quick lesson on the pituitary. It has an anterior and posterior section. The anterior section produces TSH, thyroid stimulating hormone; LH, luteinizing hormone (tells the ovaries to produce E, the testes to produce T); FSH, follicle stimulating hormone (the testes to produce the little swimmers, the ovaries to release an egg); ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone), the adrenals to produce corticosteroid hormones; HGH, human growth hormone.

The posterior portion produces oxytocin, the hormone that makes men go to sleep after sex, induces labor and makes new parents bond with a baby so they don't eat it; ADH, anti-diuretic hormone aka vasopressin, which keeps you from peeing uncontrollably (beer suppresses production of ADH so that's why you piss like a racehorse when drinking beer); prolactin (I think it's in the posterior pit., I should check), which stimulates lactation.

[penn28]

I was not going to share this and I am still coming to gripps with this myslef....but there is so much made of this on the forum. Lots of guys with all kinds of excuses of why they dont progress. Well guys...

I have recently found out I am actually clinically hypogonadal by definition. (not a title I ever wanted) Although my total is avg range...my free is BELOW the bottom of the scale (remember it is free test that actually matters as it is the only form useable by your body). I have been feeling setadily worse since my accident 3 years ago which involved significant head trauma, broken neck and a brain injury. My Dr. thinks I am suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury Hormone Deficiency Syndrome. (how is that for a medical term )

What is the normal free test level range? I come across different ranges given by people...

[Grant73]

What is the normal free test level range? I come across different ranges given by people...

I believe it's 9-28 ng/dl

[JOHN GARGANI]

This is a little embarrassing to admit....but I seem to not be able to keep from crying at about any movie. (totally serious and cant believe that I am sharing this). As an example, I watched Kung-Fu panda 2 last weekend with my kids and at the end I was fighting back tears...srs... (OK...please dont give me crap about this...but I am man enough to admit it )

don't feel bad about this, I can cry at the drop of the hat even THINKING about certain movies! LOL....

I have not really suffered 'performance' wise....but my drive....well you know....my desire is waaay down. I think this suits my wife well

yah...thet thar is Wimmin fer yuh!!

lol.....

[jayluk4600]

Oh man, I cry all the time LOL. And I dont care who makes fun of me.

Your a warrior ID and I have always had alot of respect for your points of view. Thank you for sharing this I am sure you have helped and motivated more people then you could ever realize.

[Philliebuster]

Thank you for sharing this. I am not recommending this by any means, you say you have taken supplements. I was wondering if you had dabbled with any of the popular t-boosters out there, or discussed these with your doc. What were his opinions on these? If not, What supps are you taking? Thanks in advance.

[induced_drag]

don't feel bad about this, I can cry at the drop of the hat even THINKING about certain movies! LOL....



yah...thet thar is Wimmin fer yuh!!

lol.....

Oh man, I cry all the time LOL. And I dont care who makes fun of me.

Your a warrior ID and I have always had alot of respect for your points of view. Thank you for sharing this I am sure you have helped and motivated more people then you could ever realize.

Thanks guys! Guess I am in good company then. Serious....I do appreciate it. On that note, I have always been an 'emotional' person, but what has changed is my level of sensitivity.....as I have said, it is bad when Kung Fu Panda is setting you off

Thank you for sharing this. I am not recommending this by any means, you say you have taken supplements. I was wondering if you had dabbled with any of the popular t-boosters out there, or discussed these with your doc. What were his opinions on these? If not, What supps are you taking? Thanks in advance.

I did talk about this with him and have been doing some other research. I specifically discussed DAA with him but we both agreed that is not a long-term solution. On an interesting note Stinging Nettle Root is know to lower SHBG thereby raising free test. That is actually the main basis for Activate Xtreme by DS.

While supps can surly help, I do not think they are a viable long term solution for where I am at.

I even more think that supps can and do provide a benefit now though. After researching and learning about the hormonal pathways and feedback systems involved, all three supps I have endorsed stand on solid ground. Activate Xtreme,(raises free test) Triazole (an AI which will cause the body to ramp up test production) and DAA (which increases LH)

I asked if it was possible that prior supp usage could have effected my levels now. He did not think so as my LH was good as well as other indicators. My total test production is not suppressed in any way...in fact is it quite normal. It is my free that is the issue. My situation, with the odd combination of my results is much more likely to be related to my head injury.

I have been learning all I can and there are some great resources out there on the net. I want to understand fully about this and I dont plan to just march blindly only taking advice from my Dr. To me this is too serious an issue to not try to be informed about.

[Getsum]

According to all the wannabe endocrinologists who post in this forum all you have to do is squat, eat steak, and have sex and your testosterone levels will be fine. Try that and report back.

Yet another excellent post.

Great thread ID.

[Wildtim]

After review this thread is back!

good thread.

Please keep it on topic, so to speak.

[Corbi]

After review this thread is back!

good thread.

Please keep it on topic, so to speak.

Thank you Tim.

[gray73]

After review this thread is back!

good thread.

Please keep it on topic, so to speak.

NICE!
Thanks for bringing it back, wildtim!

[yakabebe]

After review this thread is back!

good thread.

Please keep it on topic, so to speak.

Power to the people!

Thanx!

[induced_drag]

First, thank you Tim. I appreciate your honesty and the fact that you corrected it. That is all anyone could ask for. Thank you!

Second: Despite the fact that I was upset, I am glad I resisted to the urge to "go off" so to speak. The mods are just people too and they do have a large amount of posts to police. This is not helped I am sure by the influx on FNG's that dont know the rules. I am very happy with the outcome here and sincerely appreciate it.

Last: I want to ask that we do respect the rules and I would like people to refrain from discussing topics which are not allowed here. Although we can not prevent this 100%, we can always respond back with a simple "these topics are not allowed to be discussed here". I am sure the mods would appreciate it....and in the end, this is their forum which primarily serves to support their business. Their forum, their rules,..and I am happy to oblige. I ask others to do the same. We are all mature adults here and for the most part, I dont see any issue with complying with these simple rules.

We can by all means discuss hormonal pathways that exist naturally in the human body and their interaction with each other. We can NOT discuss prescription medication or illegal drug treatment however.

I am also really glad this thread is back up because I have a lot of reps to hand out!. I'd rep WildTim too....but not sure it would do any good

Thanks guys

[pvsampson]

Excellent!! Great thread.

[mrmrbill]

... and to think I was just getting ready to join: Steepster.com

[Karl_Hungus]

I even more think that supps can and do provide a benefit now though. After researching and learning about the hormonal pathways and feedback systems involved, all three supps I have endorsed stand on solid ground. Activate Xtreme,(raises free test) Triazole (an AI which will cause the body to ramp up test production) and DAA (which increases LH)

Your low T may be one reason why you have had such a good response to these supps -- and why others, who are already in the normal range don't notice benefits from them. Low T or not, your results speak for themselves.

[induced_drag]

Your low T may be one reason why you have had such a good response to these supps -- and why others, who are already in the normal range don't notice benefits from them. Low T or not, your results speak for themselves.

I was actually wondering that. I remember the first time I took Activate Xtreme, I felt awesome. See my post #43 above. Although when I combined DS Triazole with DAA I felt this and more.

I will share another bit of info. I had held off on running a test boost stack since I knew I wanted honest bloodwork. I took almost 5 months off any supps that would effect it....except whey etc.

I started DAA after I got bloodwork done. In between appts with the Doc. (I told him what I was wanting to do) I was initially going to get bloodwork done again in 6 weeks and compare it. Then after meeting with my doc on one of the follow-ups, we both agreed that the DAA, although it works great for me, was only a temp fix. (although he was quite positive about it).

During that time, I was on DAA again for about 10 days. I started to feel AWESOME again. I felt energy....etc. My issues outside the gym were much better. I started being greeted every morning by a surprise visitor....you know . Now at this point I had not yet begun the Triazole...so only the total test boosting of the DAA by increasing LH made me feel so much better. I mean it is profound for me.

I have since discontinued DAA per Docs orders . I felt good for a good few days after and my energy levels dropped off since.

Seeing a brief window that way I felt could turn around so quickly and dramatically, is one of the things that gives me confidence with making such a large decision. Being able to see just how poorly I feel normally by being able to contrast it with feeling good, and to be able to compare both these feelings in such a short time frame was invaluable for me.

[jayluk4600]

... and to think I was just getting ready to join: Steepster.com

lol

[Flyboyjc]

Bravo to Tim for putting the post back up!

ID, this is a great thread, thanks for starting it! I think this may be an issue that could help a lot of people over 35.

[Getsum]

It is a good thread and it shows that it's a good idea to get a full panel of blood work done. Probably a good idea to ask for one when you get your yearly physical done.

[induced_drag]

It is a good thread and it shows that it's a good idea to get a full panel of blood work done. Probably a good idea to ask for one when you get your yearly physical done.

Great point! One point I dont want lost is the importance of getting blood work draw at the time of any major head trauma. It may take months or even years to show up, but having that reference panel to look back at and see what was 'normal' for you is invaluable. I know when I got hurt, they were constantly taking blood..and running tests. I wish I had known this back then!

This is even MORE important with young kids in sports! Spread the word. I'll post the link again. Every sports coach and parent with a child in a contact sport should read this and understand what should be done in the event of a concussion as well as possible after effects.
http://www.worldhealth.net/pdf/Gordon_Thera10.pdf

[Dutchman]

ID, hat's off to you and my prayers for your success. After 2 decades of low test (below 200), the long battle my late wife waged against her cancer and then her death, I fell into deep depression. TRT pulled me out and solved problems of energy, sleep and a devastated sex life. I thank God every day for the Docs who pushed me onto it.

[induced_drag]

ID, hat's off to you and my prayers for your success. After 2 decades of low test (below 200), the long battle my late wife waged against her cancer and then her death, I fell into deep depression. *** pulled me out and solved problems of energy, sleep and a devastated sex life. I thank God every day for the Docs who pushed me onto it.

If you do *** please look into adding *** with it. ***** did help me but the **** made me feel much better and keeps your balls working AND normal size . Also everyone is different on this because @ 1200 test I felt like crap 700 I am very happy and my E2 is always low 20's. If you have any questions ask.

Hey guys....come on now... This tread got pulled once already. We know the rules....no talk of prescription drugs or illegal ones.

Dutchmans was only a casual reference....but Ryanmcd....come on dude. Please edit your posts and take the "banned' stuff out. And you guys sometimes wonder why the mods seem heavy handed.....Ryanmcd has been here since 07 and does not know the rules yet?

[Getsum]

Hey guys....come on now... This tread got pulled once already. We know the rules....no talk of prescription drugs or illegal ones.

Dutchmans was only a casual reference....but Ryanmcd....come on dude. Please edit your posts and take the "banned' stuff out. And you guys sometimes wonder why the mods seem heavy handed.....Ryanmcd has been here since 07 and does not know the rules yet?