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  1. #31
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Awesome thread and very short and to the point.

    The 'basic" lifts build a great foundation for everyone. no need to do the newest and greatest 90 day workout to get "huge biceps"...lift heavy ass weights in short reps, eat clean and get plenty of rest. You break muscle down when you workout...you build muscle when you recover.
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  2. #32
    Registered User Curlingrack's Avatar
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    If you have a decent strength base and a strong understanding of the basic lifts, is a full body routine still optimal? I'm not using myself as an example, just a general question. If someone were to have completed a program such as SS and were considered an intermediate strength based lifter, is he/she still going with the full body routine as an introduction to hypertrophy training, or something like a split?

    Sorry if this has been asked already.

    EDIT: Read the rest of the thread, pretty sure the answer is the full body routine...
    Squats - 315lb
    Bench - 225lb
    OHP - 165lb
    Deadlift - 355lb
    PC - 195lb
    Pull-ups - 24
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  3. #33
    Mod Squad VoxExMachina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Curlingrack View Post
    If you have a decent strength base and a strong understanding of the basic lifts, is a full body routine still optimal? I'm not using myself as an example, just a general question. If someone were to have completed a program such as SS and were considered an intermediate strength based lifter, is he/she still going with the full body routine as an introduction to hypertrophy training, or something like a split?
    If you have a good strength base, to the point where you can no longer progress linearly from week to week on the full body program, then it's probably time to consider moving to a split routine - assuming your goals are bodybuilding related. This will allow you to hit each body part with a bit more volume per workout, since they'll have a bit more recovery time.
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  4. #34
    Registered User Curlingrack's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    If you have a good strength base, to the point where you can no longer progress linearly from week to week on the full body program, then it's probably time to consider moving to a split routine - assuming your goals are bodybuilding related. This will allow you to hit each body part with a bit more volume per workout, since they'll have a bit more recovery time.
    Thanks
    Squats - 315lb
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    Deadlift - 355lb
    PC - 195lb
    Pull-ups - 24
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  5. #35
    This Space for Rent RockCrab's Avatar
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    Should be stickied. Not so it's read, because we know that won't happen organically, but so it's easier to find when wanting to post a link to it.
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  6. #36
    Registered User bonito88's Avatar
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    Thanks for great post VoxExMachina, you have no idea how your post would make a difference in my life from now on..
    I'm 23, 182 lbs and I've only 3 months gym experience (just bought a home gym set)

    After reading your post I've made a change in my workout today and it took me 1.5 hours to finish, 30 minutes more than my split routine BUT I was really happy because I felt like this routine will give a great core for my future, but yea downside is I don't think I'll be even close to a beach body for this summer as if I'd have gone with splits hahahah

    Anyway since here are people who appreciates a full body routine, I hope you guys can give me a constructive feedback for the routine I've in my mind ;

    PS: Please check my profile in my photo gallery, can't post the pictures, what do you guys think I need more ?? I'm doing extra shoulders workout because I think that's probably my weakest part ?? ( and I'm training forearms almost 4 days a week, very weakk.. very thin..)


    Flat Barbell Bench 3x8 (95lbs)
    Decline Barbell Bench 3x8 (95lbs)
    SQUAT 5x8 (135 lbs)
    BB Deadlift 5x8 ( 130lbs)
    Seated Cable Rows 3x12 (160lbs)

    Chest
    Flat Dumbell Flye 3x15
    Straight Arm Dumbell Pullover 3x15 *on the other day??
    Triceps
    One Arm Dumbbell Triceps Extension 3x15 *one day to side, other to back ?? or rope press down other day ?
    Shoulders
    One Arm DB Lateral Raise 3x 15
    One Arm DB Front Raise 3x15 *on the other day ?
    Seated DB Press 3x13 (every other workout? )
    Back
    Close Grip Front Lat 3x12
    Wide Grip Front Lat 3x12 *on the other day ?
    Biceps
    Standing Barbell Curl 3x12 (20lbs)
    Seated Incline DB 3x12 (25lbs) *on the other day?
    Traps
    Standing Barbell Upright Row 3x12
    Dumbell Shrug 4x12 *on the other day ?

    And yes I only do squat for legs, but the reason is; on my rest days I'm training plyometrics for my vertical jump, 1 inch to dunk !


    Thanks again VoxExMachina, and everybody on this forum who spare their precious time for newbies like me.
    Last edited by bonito88; 04-12-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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  7. #37
    Registered User JWilll07's Avatar
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    Question man. I've been lifting about every week day (rest on the weekends) doing a 5 day split.. But, I'm not really getting the results I want. Would you consider going to a full body routine or sticking with my split. Keep in mind that I just now starting a bulk 3 weeks ago.
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  8. #38
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    Question man. I've been lifting about every week day (rest on the weekends) doing a 5 day split.. But, I'm not really getting the results I want. Would you consider going to a full body routine or sticking with my split. Keep in mind that I just now starting a bulk 3 weeks ago.
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  9. #39
    Registered User jndietz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Because many people who utilize splits have no real idea why they are doing so. They just picked up a magazine and started with whatever program looked "cool".
    That's exactly what I did, except it was off of bodybuilding.com... Did SS last year, didn't do it right, didn't eat enough. Fixed my diet, changed my routine to a crappy 3-day split. Now I'm back with a fixed up diet and doing the SL 5x5. Hope I'm on the right track now. Will probably switch to a split again once I put on some damn muscle...
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  10. #40
    Mod Squad VoxExMachina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JWilll07 View Post
    Question man. I've been lifting about every week day (rest on the weekends) doing a 5 day split.. But, I'm not really getting the results I want. Would you consider going to a full body routine or sticking with my split. Keep in mind that I just now starting a bulk 3 weeks ago.
    At 5'11, 168, I think you'd be best served focusing mainly on compound lifts done several times a week, and packing in the FOOD. Starting Strength is fine, All-Pro's, something like that.

    Pack on the mass first, before worrying about every little muscle group, and you'll be better off in the long run.
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  11. #41
    Rise Of The Weak Squatter GinjaNinja85's Avatar
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    This thread is superb, to the point. The amount of times people post threads asking this exact question without having the slightest grasp of recovery and frequency is incredible. I'm copying this link to my clipboard to post to the newBs in future.

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  12. #42
    Forever Weak Phaggot Kirra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    If you stick with the concept that you're trying to hit a muscle as often as you are able while still recovering adequately, and let that be your guide, you'll do okay.
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by GinjaNinja85 View Post
    This thread is superb, to the point. The amount of times people post threads asking this exact question without having the slightest grasp of recovery and frequency is incredible. I'm copying this link to my clipboard to post to the newBs in future.

    Repped.
    Of course, it's not that you can't make decent gains as a noOb on a split routine, because you can. But people seem to give no thought whatsoever as to why they're doing what they're doing, or why it might make more sense to stick with a basic strength / mass program initially.
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  14. #44
    Registered User MNTiburon's Avatar
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    I did full body four times a week and have moved on to splits. I do Shoulders/Biceps/Triceps mondays and thursdays, and chest/back/legs tuesday and friday. Wednesdays and saturdays I do cardio (exercise bike/running). Does this sound about right for someone looking to build some muscle but keep a slender athletic build?
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  15. #45
    Tu papi Jasonk282's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MNTiburon View Post
    I did full body four times a week and have moved on to splits. I do Shoulders/Biceps/Triceps mondays and thursdays, and chest/back/legs tuesday and friday. Wednesdays and saturdays I do cardio (exercise bike/running). Does this sound about right for someone looking to build some muscle but keep a slender athletic build?
    Why did you move onto splits? 6'1" 177lbs is pretty damn skinny.
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  16. #46
    Registered User MNTiburon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    Why did you move onto splits? 6'1" 177lbs is pretty damn skinny.
    6'2'' but yeah I'm pretty thin. I moved to splits mostly for convenience because I usually don't have time to hit all the muscle groups every day. I've heard it's not good to work each group daily anyway, but not sure if there's much truth to that. I don't want to risk injuring something by overworking it.
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  17. #47
    Registered User DJChaosKittyEx's Avatar
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    As a n00b, I thank you for the information, VoxExMachina. I just started back working out after becoming depressed and underweight (got down to 133lbs at 5'9") and have started doing a full body routine. The routine I'm using is this: on bobyduilding.com. I can't yet post a link, but it's at /fun/hitworkout.htm. I'm not sure what you'd think of that program, but any advice on a good full body program would be helpful. This one seems to be working for me so far for gaining strength. I've also gained 7 lbs since I started it 3 weeks ago.

    Might I ask, and forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds here or if it's against any rule, but if you had my body to work with (I just uploaded new photos to my photo gallery), what would you do with it to have a good bodybuilder look? I want to get off on the right foot and also advice from someone so experienced would be a godsend to me. I'd eventually like to weigh 180lbs. I was 170lbs at my heaviest with 26% body fat. Now, I'm at around 6.5% body fat at 140lbs.

    Again, thanks for the post!
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  18. #48
    Training for an iron butt Icepray's Avatar
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    If you are pretty weak when you start going to the gym, I do think fullbody is the way to go. I have a friend who benches 135lbs with trouble, I don't see why he would be doing a split...

    But as time goes on splits become better, but frequency is important I've progressed more on high frequency programs than I ever did working each muscle once a week.

    Layne's PHAT helped a lot with my back/legs developpement, madcows for my strength and DC is just awsome right now
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  19. #49
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    Good **** here Vox you get my measly reps. Im always recommending people new to weights to do a full body routine when they ask, but whats the optimum number of sets and reps. When i started i was the typical 3x10 guy for full body. Is this still the best starting set/rep scheme or has it been tweaked?
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  20. #50
    This Space For Rent painted_klown's Avatar
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    Great thread. I too am interested in set and rep amounts for a noob.

    Also, should you do warm up sets (like in SS) or just do the 3x10 (or whatever is recommended).

    Thanks.
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  21. #51
    Forever Weak Phaggot Kirra's Avatar
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  22. #52
    Mod Squad VoxExMachina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DJChaosKittyEx View Post
    As a n00b, I thank you for the information, VoxExMachina. I just started back working out after becoming depressed and underweight (got down to 133lbs at 5'9") and have started doing a full body routine. The routine I'm using is this: on bobyduilding.com. I can't yet post a link, but it's at /fun/hitworkout.htm. I'm not sure what you'd think of that program, but any advice on a good full body program would be helpful. This one seems to be working for me so far for gaining strength. I've also gained 7 lbs since I started it 3 weeks ago.

    Might I ask, and forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds here or if it's against any rule, but if you had my body to work with (I just uploaded new photos to my photo gallery), what would you do with it to have a good bodybuilder look? I want to get off on the right foot and also advice from someone so experienced would be a godsend to me. I'd eventually like to weigh 180lbs. I was 170lbs at my heaviest with 26% body fat. Now, I'm at around 6.5% body fat at 140lbs.

    Again, thanks for the post!
    If it were me, I would just do All-Pro's Beginner's routine (see the sticky in this section), or Starting Strength. With one of those, proper nutrition, and putting in your time with the iron will get you on your way.





    Originally Posted by ckleckner10 View Post
    Good **** here Vox you get my measly reps. Im always recommending people new to weights to do a full body routine when they ask, but whats the optimum number of sets and reps. When i started i was the typical 3x10 guy for full body. Is this still the best starting set/rep scheme or has it been tweaked?
    Originally Posted by painted_klown View Post
    Great thread. I too am interested in set and rep amounts for a noob.

    Also, should you do warm up sets (like in SS) or just do the 3x10 (or whatever is recommended).

    Thanks.
    The best "generic" answer I could give would be that most exercises will respond well to 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps per exercise. But really, it depends on your goals, the specific exercise, and how your body reacts. If you're primarily interested in strength, then doing more of your big compound exercises in the 5-7 rep range can be beneficial.

    Note that I'm talking "work sets" here. Personally, I do a couple of warm up sets for most exercises with lighter weight before moving into my working sets.

    This table might give you an idea of what rep ranges are best for which goals (remember, it's still just a generic guide):

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    Originally Posted by MNTiburon View Post
    6'2'' but yeah I'm pretty thin. I moved to splits mostly for convenience because I usually don't have time to hit all the muscle groups every day. I've heard it's not good to work each group daily anyway, but not sure if there's much truth to that. I don't want to risk injuring something by overworking it.
    You only need 1 hour every other day for a full body routine. Unless you rather do full body isolations which is counter productive.

    The point of a full body is to use the best bang for your buck exercises...compounds like squat, bench, military press, deadlift, barbell rows, pullups and dips...that along with adding weight each workout with a calorie surplus will add thick slabs of muscle onto your frame.
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post


    But according to that graph those looking for size or strength should do 1-3 reps, followed by a set of 20...
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    But according to that graph those looking for size or strength should do 1-3 reps, followed by a set of 20...
    probably why the 5/3/1 BBB is getting very popular.
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    How about this:

    1 set of 5 with an empty bar, one set of 5 with half your "work set" weight. Then with your full "work set" weight you do 3 sets of 8 with :30-:60 secs of rest in between sets. If your work set weight is 100 lbs or less, then you can just use the bar for both of the warm up sets.

    When you can complete the three sets of 8 you add 5 lbs for the next workout. You continue to add 5 lbs to each lift with every workout until you cannot complete your 3x8 work set. At that point you, stay at the "stall" weight until you can complete all of your work sets.

    Some lifts will naturally progress faster than others doing this, but honestly I feel this system is simple enough, and it seems logical that it might work. If you do not know how to get your starting work set weight you can always begin all your lifts with 45 lbs at your starting weight and work your way up from there. Sure, you will have some very easy weeks in the beginning with some of your lifts, but if you are adding 15 lbs each week after your first week, (5 lbs for each workout) then it will add up rather quickly.

    What do you guys think?

    I am talking for a full body routine where the most important goal is hypertrophy, not necessarily strength.
    Last edited by painted_klown; 04-14-2012 at 08:07 PM.
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    I've just changed from split routines to full body, but it's my 3rd day with it. Ive already posted my routine couple replies above can you guys check it out or i've also opened a thread maybe you guys can help me it would be really appreciated
    h ttp://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=144025331

    I've actually removed the split movements that I wrote here. But I think I'd do a 1 set of shrug , Close Grip Front Lat, Straight Arm Dumbell Pullover or lateral raise. Just any 2 of those for one full body routine day tell me what do you think please thanks
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    But according to that graph those looking for size or strength should do 1-3 reps, followed by a set of 20...
    Originally Posted by Jasonk282 View Post
    probably why the 5/3/1 BBB is getting very popular.
    No.

    Don't read too much into things. Bodybuilders need VOLUME, and spending most of your time under 5 reps ain't gonna get the job done.
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    No.

    Don't read too much into things. Bodybuilders need VOLUME, and spending most of your time under 5 reps ain't gonna get the job done.
    Sorry, I got confused, I meant the bodybuilder template...
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    I guess my question is really, what's the difference between doing a full body every other day and my current regiment of:

    Mon/Thu - Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps

    Tue/Fri - Back, Chest, Legs

    Wed/Sat - Cardio (row machine, bike, running)


    *I'm not training to be a BB, just want to increase muscle and decrease body fat.


    I like what I'm doing right now but want to make sure it's the optimal way to do it.
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