shoulder bulletproofing: rarely about Rotator Cuff strength

[sreaver03]

This article was very informative! I am in a bit of a predicament my self. I have been training for about 5 years, in this time I have learned a lot and I have had my share of injuries. A few years back I developed elbow tendonitis from doing skullcrushers. I made the newb mistake and got overzealous on upping the weight too fast. I have done research on the tendonitis and know it affects grip strength. I have read numerous studies and articles on how your rotator cuff is only as strong as your grip, which is why they tell you to grip the bar as hard as humanly possible to keep the rotator cuff healthy and strong. About a year ago I started experiencing shoulder pain in my left shoulder. I stopped doing upper body exercises for a good 6-8 weeks to let it repair and just focused on legs. The pain went away and only comes back on occurence. What I am noticing now is my whole left arm is suffering. The tendonitis led to a weaker grip which led to a weaker rotator cuff. It is affecting the size and symmetry of the muscle as well. The left shoulder is noticeably smaller, the left tricep and pec cannot contract as well as the right side. I know the mind muscle connection, I focus on perfect form, I do not jump the weights like I use to unless I can completely dominate them. I am just wondering if there is a type of therapy for this or if anyone knows how to fix this? I do extra sets in hopes to bring up the symmetry and I do rotator cuff exercises before chest and shoulder day. I just fear that if this problem does not resolve the potential hazards down the line. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[mc-]

This article was very informative! I am in a bit of a predicament my self. I have been training for about 5 years, in this time I have learned a lot and I have had my share of injuries. A few years back I developed elbow tendonitis from doing skullcrushers. I made the newb mistake and got overzealous on upping the weight too fast. I have done research on the tendonitis and know it affects grip strength. I have read numerous studies and articles on how your rotator cuff is only as strong as your grip, which is why they tell you to grip the bar as hard as humanly possible to keep the rotator cuff healthy and strong. About a year ago I started experiencing shoulder pain in my left shoulder. I stopped doing upper body exercises for a good 6-8 weeks to let it repair and just focused on legs. The pain went away and only comes back on occurence. What I am noticing now is my whole left arm is suffering. The tendonitis led to a weaker grip which led to a weaker rotator cuff. It is affecting the size and symmetry of the muscle as well. The left shoulder is noticeably smaller, the left tricep and pec cannot contract as well as the right side. I know the mind muscle connection, I focus on perfect form, I do not jump the weights like I use to unless I can completely dominate them. I am just wondering if there is a type of therapy for this or if anyone knows how to fix this? I do extra sets in hopes to bring up the symmetry and I do rotator cuff exercises before chest and shoulder day. I just fear that if this problem does not resolve the potential hazards down the line. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

well sounds like you've noticed what seems like a chain reaction. could be.
but could be some other stuff in terms of balance. so i'd connect with a movement specialist to assess this.
if you pm me and i know someone near to where you are, i'll be happy to recommend someone for you.

best
mc

[B1RD33]

Great Post, thank you!

[OldschoolBB99]

Excellent thread

[brent89]

This video is pretty good I find for helping shoulders. Really targets the scapula retraction

[nightmare69]

My right shoulder has been giving me trouble for a few weeks now but only on 1 exercise. When I do incline DB press I get this sharp pain in my right shoulder, the front delt to be specific, half way through the ROM. I usually push 50lbs DBs no problem but I've had to drop to 35 or 40lbs DBs to not workout in pain. I try every week on chest day to push 50lb DBs, but still get the pain and have to deload. I stretch real good before and it has helped, I hope this heals up soon.

[JRT6]

I have a jacked shoulder due to a pec tear years ago. Recently I video'ed myself doing pushups and my shoulder was clearly shown to be up and forward instead of retracted and back. That's not a RC issue and it's easy enough to fix.

[Terpgym]

Great info here.

[BFJ]

great ideas for shoulder mobility in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nSgHAL4w3E

[Jelet]

great ideas for shoulder mobility in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nSgHAL4w3E

im confused is this just a warm up?

i am currently doing some shoulder stretches(havent been to teh gym in 6 months) and should i replace this mobility routine with my stretch routine? or is shoulder mobilitity just a "shoulder warm up"
i dont get this mobility stuff.. i feel dumb but i dont get it. is it a warm up or is it the same principle as stretching... =/ like if it would make sense if i do mobility work before i go to bed.... or no

[karinabe16]

thank you!

[Hannah82]

So could one speculate that a shoulder problem could be caused by an imbalance caused by scoliosis? And if so how would one remedy this?

Seems like ALL the joints on my left side have some sort of problem.

[PieWheatley]

So could one speculate that a shoulder problem could be caused by an imbalance caused by scoliosis? And if so how would one remedy this?

Seems like ALL the joints on my left side have some sort of problem.

How bad is your scoliosis? Have you had it x-rayed? Scoliosis will change the relative position of the thoracic spine adn therefore where the scapula sits. It's a tough one, but you would want to make sure that you have good thoracic rotation and extension and get a look at how your scapula move in comparison to one another. Lots of stretching and scapula stability work.

[Hannah82]

How bad is your scoliosis? Have you had it x-rayed? Scoliosis will change the relative position of the thoracic spine adn therefore where the scapula sits. It's a tough one, but you would want to make sure that you have good thoracic rotation and extension and get a look at how your scapula move in comparison to one another. Lots of stretching and scapula stability work.

Had one within the past year, told it was very mild. Already doing some scapula work for my shoulder rehab so I suppose I will just keep progressing with that and search other exercises. Thanks.

How do you assess thoracic rotation/extension? My doc said am considered hyper flexible if that matters.

[PieWheatley]

Had one within the past year, told it was very mild. Already doing some scapula work for my shoulder rehab so I suppose I will just keep progressing with that and search other exercises. Thanks.

How do you assess thoracic rotation/extension? My doc said am considered hyper flexible if that matters.

Well mild probably isn't relevant, especially if you don't have any symptoms in terms of thoracic spine tightness or pain. Thoracic rotation can be kinda measured by sitting, knees together, hand behind head and slowly rotation body as far as able, and comparing to other side. Good thoracic exercises are the 'open book' look it up and thoracic extensions over foam rollers. You may be hypermobile though and therefore thoracic mobility isn't as imporant as stability.

[liangyu]

Thanks mc for this!

[polskiski]

Thanks for the tips, very good stuff!

[LadyLore420]

Thanks for this post!

I've run into a shoulder issue that's stopped me from doing any upper body movements and I was curious if you could help me out at all.

Several years ago I had a history of olympic weight lifting, then I quit the gym for 5 years. I started building leg strength up with bicycling, then got into the gym again and was squatting heavy weights for a beginner, then to overhead squatting, then got back into olympic weight lifting. On my first attempt at jerking, well, push press, my right bicep tendon, "caught" and produced an incredible amount of pain. I couldn't press my arm upward in any way with any weight. Now any time I hold my arm out at 90 degrees and externally rotate it, "clicks." After a week of broomstick rotation stretches, I attempted to DB bench, and it's still clicking, supposedly tendonitis.

All I can think of is that when I began overhead squatting, my RCs felt very sore for several days, and maybe I screwed them up then, or possibly a broken clavicle as a teenager on the same problem shoulder could be the culprit, or that my lower body strength allowed me to confidently snatch and clean weights that my shoulders weren't ready to handle. Right now I'm stuck into the same old lower body routine because I can't risk long term tendonitis by lifting with the, "clicky" noise, "catching," every rep. I'm freaking out because well, working out a single muscle group and only that is boring and there's no progress being made on the big two lifts with upcoming competitions. Is there any way to get the clicky thing out the way sooner than later?

[2Rude4MyOwnGood]

If you're having painful clicking and catching, that's a sign of a serious injury. Where exactly do you feel the click? Any dislocations? Can you describe your symptoms in a little more detail?

A little bit of clicking is normal, and is just wear and tear. But if there is pain along with it, that's bad.

I'd stop doing those broomstick rotation stretches immediately. They seem to help some people, but if you've got a damaged labrum, you're going to make it much worse.

[LadyLore420]

Thanks for getting back to me.

The exact point of pain is just below the clavicle, when I do overhead movements it feels as though my biceps tendon gets caught up on the acromion(is that even possible?) or maybe it's the supraspinatus. There's no mistaking that something gets, "caught." As for the clicking, it's in the same area, going from internal to external rotation. The initial incident occurred going from a front squat rack with elbows up and shoulders externally rotated into a push press with something like 100lbs. One the first set, it caught on the second rep, about half way up as soon as my shoulders were finishing the movement after the initial push. Never had anything like it happen to me before so stupid me dropped the weight, and as soon as I went back up, happened on the first rep. Now it clicks, anytime I move my arms up and down or even laterally adduct then with an incline, clicks louder with weight. Compression was the only thing that stopped the pain for the first few days, but now it's not hurting much at all, besides a very, very faint warning hickup if I try doing something really low weight or bend it the wrong way.

No dislocations, just a bad clavicle fracture when I was younger that made the right one about a half inch shorter than the left clavicle. That's never been an issue before, so I'm thinking going from zero overhead movements to a few weeks of snatches and overhead squats everyday with no rest and constant RC soreness is the culprit. Very stupid, I know :-( I'm too young for this crap.

[CookAndrewB]

Have you tried any kind of shoulder traction? No certainty it will fix the issue, but I don't see how decompressing is likely to hurt anything either. Every so often my shoulders get jammed up from a lot of overhead pressing (I tend to OHP the way most guys would approach bench pressing... which is to say I'm fascinated with it and I do it a lot). My fix to this has been to really load up on pullups and band shoulder traction to keep from getting compacted and keep good ROM/flexability in my shoulders.

The clavicle break is almost certainly playing a part in all of this. Outside of the OHP stuff, does it impact anything else? Muscle tightness in your uper back, rounded shoulders... just curious.

[LadyLore420]

Have you tried any kind of shoulder traction? No certainty it will fix the issue, but I don't see how decompressing is likely to hurt anything either. Every so often my shoulders get jammed up from a lot of overhead pressing (I tend to OHP the way most guys would approach bench pressing... which is to say I'm fascinated with it and I do it a lot). My fix to this has been to really load up on pullups and band shoulder traction to keep from getting compacted and keep good ROM/flexability in my shoulders.

The clavicle break is almost certainly playing a part in all of this. Outside of the OHP stuff, does it impact anything else? Muscle tightness in your uper back, rounded shoulders... just curious.

Well, I'm a huge PC gamer, and imaging I have poor shoulders from that, in addition to large breasts, which might also factor in, but I've never had any issues, although I'd never done any upper body exercising before either. Few motorcycle wrecks, but never any shoulder injury beyond this one time that made me go, "ouch." 7 years ago I was overhead squatting 185lbs and benching the same, repping 135 in seated OHP. That was a long, long time ago though, and there's been zero activity between then and January besides bicycling.

Monday I'm getting a referral to whatever kind of doctor does MRIs. Until then I'm just stuck with squats and stuff :-(

What's shoulder traction?

[CookAndrewB]

Well, I'm a huge PC gamer, and imaging I have poor shoulders from that, in addition to large breasts, which might also factor in, but I've never had any issues, although I'd never done any upper body exercising before either. Few motorcycle wrecks, but never any shoulder injury beyond this one time that made me go, "ouch." 7 years ago I was overhead squatting 185lbs and benching the same, repping 135 in seated OHP. That was a long, long time ago though, and there's been zero activity between then and January besides bicycling.

Monday I'm getting a referral to whatever kind of doctor does MRIs. Until then I'm just stuck with squats and stuff :-(

What's shoulder traction?

Stupid BB.com, I wrote what could be possibly considered THE definitive post on shoulder problems and it deleted it

Well, I'm not typing all that crap out again, so cliffs

1. Google shoulder traction with band, or do a youtube search. Basic idea is the band provides a gentle pull to "unpack" the shoulder. While the shoulder is pulled you can provide stretch in just about every direction, to include rotation, and this will allow the soft/connective tissue to fall back in place where it should be. People who press a lot tend to need this. I assume, though this isn't really your issue, that this will help to one degree or another. I doubt it will hurt you, but like anything else if it hurts... STOP!

2. While you are in "no pressing" mode, start focusing on pulling movements with particular focus on scapular retraction. It has been my experience that my lats/traps can pretty much get the job done all by themselves with little help from all the smaller muscles of the upper back, and that the only way I can provide real training to all the little players is to drop the weight, focus on form, and make sure I hold that scapular retraction for a good 2 count before I finish the rep. This is one place where unusually slow reps make sense to me.

3. My experience is that most people would be better off for both posture and shoulder health if they did at least twice as much pulling as pressing. Maybe even more like 3:1 wouldn't hurt. When you get to a point where you can do some pressing, keep this in mind.

4. PC gaming isn't any worse than being a desk jockey. Welcome to ailments of the modern man 101!

Keep us up to speed on the MRI. I'm curious what the doc says.

[2Rude4MyOwnGood]

I think I'm having a hard time understanding your description. When I think "under the clavicle" I picture the anterior/medial part of the upper chest, but then you mention the supraspinatus and bicep tendon which are a little farther off.

Is it felt in your shoulder joint? The bicep tendon runs through the bicipital groove on the anterior part of your shoulder, is that area bothering you?

[LadyLore420]

I think I'm having a hard time understanding your description. When I think "under the clavicle" I picture the anterior/medial part of the upper chest, but then you mention the supraspinatus and bicep tendon which are a little farther off.

Is it felt in your shoulder joint? The bicep tendon runs through the bicipital groove on the anterior part of your shoulder, is that area bothering you?

Acromion.

[2Rude4MyOwnGood]

Any pain with these tests?

[LadyLore420]

More like intense soreness, or tenderness, when internally rotating like in second video. First video isn't rendering or whatever.

[2Rude4MyOwnGood]

[LadyLore420]

I've had a RC injury for a couple months I was posting about in here, doc saw it today. He said it was sub acromial bursitis, but could also be a subscapularis tear. Told me to not work out anything upper body, no bench press, no deadlifts, no squats. My heart's broken and I feel as though life itself is pointless without squats and deadlifts. I'm friggin about to cry because I NEED that daily release.

Do you think it's ok to keep on lifting if, and only if, it's pain free? Maybe? Someone please say yes. I will of course be running it by my physical therapist on Monday, my first day with her, but I just want to squat and tomorrow is squat day. I'm seriously gonna cry.

[davisj3537]

This thread is gold and is WILDLY overlooked. This makes me sad.