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  1. #31
    Registered User rfaz13's Avatar
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    This may be one of my more successful threads that I started while looking for info haha. Theres a lot of good info in here. The most successful thing Ive tried from this post is definitely the hanging from the pullup bar. Ive done it twice in 4 days (2 visits to the gym, too busy other days) and my back feels absolutely incredible. Now, thats not all Ive been doing..Ive also been stretching like a maniac and doing my reverse hypers...But I have to say the little bit of an extra boost Ive gotten from the hanging, is incredible!
    Amat Victoria Curam





    Current/Goal
    Weight- 265/235-245 (lean)
    Body fat- 18%/8%
    Bench Press- 290lbs/315lbs
    Squat- 325/405
    Deadlift- 365/415lbs

    (Herniated l5-s1 and l4-l5)
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  2. #32
    Banned Tyciol's Avatar
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    Probably after, having a compressed spine can be an advantage during some movements since it's a shorter lever to move. I guess it could be a warmup, but I would think for stuff that's more rotational/impact in nature, because when your discs absorb fluid they help cushion impacts.
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by ManVsIron View Post
    One question I've been wondering about is "WHEN is the best time to decompress?" I have no back issues, and lift like a beast. So should I do decompression before loading/lifting (seems unlikely), right after, or... some other time like during a non-training day? I'm thinking the latter option is probably the best. As it is, I do just a touch of decompressing before I load the spine w/ heavy weights, as part of my thorough warmup for the lower back muscles, etc. The bulk of it, I do on rest days.
    There's no requirement to invert yourself at any time. but if you're interested in doing the best for your spine, active movement will often have a higher pay off than passive work - unless we just want to hang out, relax etc.

    We're designed for movement. The main thing to think about in any movement is to complement what we do in any range of motion

    so if you do lots of loaded work that *may* compress the spine (but so what it's designed to support this - that's what the discs are for), then you may wish to consider complementary movements.

    A great movement is to learn how to focus on the thoracic spine and be able - wihout shoulder involvement - to glide *just* the thoracics into extension and then back into flexion - likewise - to slide them from one side to the other - without tilting (like doing the egyptian neck thing but with just the upper spine).

    WHen those are controlled, do circles hitting front, left side, rear, right side, front.

    If you wish to practice even more spinal core work, headstands also followed by these thoracic glides is great to work the spine in alternative loads.

    In other words - it's less about passive hanging and more about active movement.

    Passive hanging can be fun and relaxing like a massage - but active work that gets more of the nervous system involved to manage a movement - that's gold.

    and it's something that can be done pre and post sets

    mc
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  4. #34
    Registered User rfaz13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mc- View Post

    so if you do lots of loaded work that *may* compress the spine (but so what it's designed to support this - that's what the discs are for), then you may wish to consider complementary movements.


    mc
    You make it sound like compressing your spine is a good thing...take it from my herniated and bulged discs...its not.
    Amat Victoria Curam





    Current/Goal
    Weight- 265/235-245 (lean)
    Body fat- 18%/8%
    Bench Press- 290lbs/315lbs
    Squat- 325/405
    Deadlift- 365/415lbs

    (Herniated l5-s1 and l4-l5)
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  5. #35
    Banned Tyciol's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    so if you do lots of loaded work that *may* compress the spine (but so what it's designed to support this - that's what the discs are for)
    The discs may help cushion rapid and temporary compression from impacts, but are you sure they are designed to support prolonged compression? That's not the impression I got.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by rfaz13 View Post
    You make it sound like compressing your spine is a good thing...take it from my herniated and bulged discs...its not.
    Out spines are designed to manage compression. It is actually terrific to work the disks - if they were never loaded they'd start to atrophy. we see that all the time in the elder slumped shoulders.

    Compression is not the same as compressed - as in less space between disks that is "normal"
    Most of us (over 70% of adults) have some form of compressed disk (many are diagnosed with herniation but that's an MRI job to confirm - maybe you've had that)

    and really, so what? Most of us who have herniated disks don't back squat significant loads or do the clean and jerk, we didn't get it from "compression" activities: we got it from crappy movement, and/or poor technique.

    mc
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by Tyciol View Post
    The discs may help cushion rapid and temporary compression from impacts, but are you sure they are designed to support prolonged compression? That's not the impression I got.
    what's "prolonged"

    do you mean repeated short bouts, like doing the clean and jerk, or military pressing or the GS long cylce?

    or?
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  8. #38
    Registered User rfaz13's Avatar
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    To be fair, I made the thread as someone with a herniated disc, so anything involving re-compressing the spine is just outa my vocabulary right now =x just looking strictly for decompression.
    Amat Victoria Curam





    Current/Goal
    Weight- 265/235-245 (lean)
    Body fat- 18%/8%
    Bench Press- 290lbs/315lbs
    Squat- 325/405
    Deadlift- 365/415lbs

    (Herniated l5-s1 and l4-l5)
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  9. #39
    Banned Tyciol's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    what's "prolonged"

    do you mean repeated short bouts, like doing the clean and jerk, or military pressing or the GS long cylce?

    or?
    I'm not sure a specific time. C+J would have traction elements (like when you rapidly try to sink into a squat under the bar before catching it, if you're doing it that way). Military press weights usually being less than squats/deadlift the cushioning would probably stay longer. Not sure what last one is.
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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by Tyciol View Post
    I'm not sure a specific time. C+J would have traction elements (like when you rapidly try to sink into a squat under the bar before catching it, if you're doing it that way). Military press weights usually being less than squats/deadlift the cushioning would probably stay longer. Not sure what last one is.
    GS is kettlebell sport. The long cycle for men is clean and jerking two 24 or 32 kg kb's for ten minutes for max reps.

    but that's neither here nor there
    you asserted i believe that i had said our spines are designed for "prolonged" compression - and i am asking what you mean by prolonged before i can say whether i said that or not.

    My immediate response is to say - do the fast loads for lifts that we train to carry out with perfect form, and balance with perfect movement practice - count as "prolonged"?

    mc
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  11. #41
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jakefurfaro View Post
    just tried this and that really helped. repped
    This is like a yoga position right? Am I getting the right picture?
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  12. #42
    Amphibious Green Phaggot GodMadeDirt's Avatar
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    SUBBING. Good info here.
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by rfaz13 View Post
    My personal experience with a chiro....HELL no. Terrible! I recommend NEVER going to see a chiro. EVER! My father warned me before I went about how bad chiros are and how they often cause more damage than when you walked in...I didnt listen. The guy is our neighbor and family friend, and I STILL had issues with him. I am fully on the side of the argument with everyone that says DONT GO TO A CHIRO!!

    Much better off finding a good physical therapist.

    I disagree, there are some very good chiropractors out there. You just need to find a good one and stick with him/her.

    Have you tried seeing a kinesiologist or Buddha Body Yoga?
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  14. #44
    Banned Tyciol's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    you asserted i believe that i had said our spines are designed for "prolonged" compression - and i am asking what you mean by prolonged before i can say whether i said that or not.
    I was responding to "lots of loaded work that *may* compress the spine (but so what it's designed to support this - that's what the discs are for)". So I don't think either of us gave specifics. I don't have the knowhow to put a number on something like this, I just thought the discs were for absorbing shocks as opposed to prolonged compression.
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by Tyciol View Post
    I was responding to "lots of loaded work that *may* compress the spine (but so what it's designed to support this - that's what the discs are for)". So I don't think either of us gave specifics. I don't have the knowhow to put a number on something like this, I just thought the discs were for absorbing shocks as opposed to prolonged compression.
    Again what's "prolonged" about the compression in any work that we do with weights? and what's the difference between "shock absorption" and "compression" beyond speed?

    Prolonged would be holding a weight over one's head for how long? do we have any measures at all about what that means? do any of us live that condition?
    it's too hypothetical - at least for me.

    our discs compress and decompress all the time - not just under shock - joints need spacers in order to act as joints.

    oh well we're getting off track - the focus here was hanging upside down.

    my point is that like massage can be nice relieve, but is better when backed up with active mobiliazation to make sure that those suspended joints can move under control and under demand - how mobile are the verts in one's spine? that doesn't often come by passively hanging but by actively practicing - giving the brain a map - of movement to follow.

    We're use it or lose it organisms: if we don't practice self-controlled movement of a joint, not only does atrophy and crap set in, but the brain map about how to do that movement starts to decay if it was ever built at all. the brain will use those neurons to do other things better - which may be crappy movement that's getting reinforced.

    mc
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  16. #46
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    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    Again what's "prolonged" about the compression in any work that we do with weights?
    By comparison. Like a set of 10 squats is a longer period than the half second or so it might take to take a step or sprint or leap.

    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    and what's the difference between "shock absorption" and "compression" beyond speed?
    Probably rebound. If we get squashed, we can bounce out of it and possibly even make ourself momentarily weightless, creating pulling tractions to let the discs absorb moisture again.

    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    Prolonged would be holding a weight over one's head for how long? do we have any measures at all about what that means? do any of us live that condition? it's too hypothetical - at least for me.
    The length depends on how much weight it is and how much moisture is already in the discs. I don't have any formulas here, it's abstract as opposed to hypothetical I think.

    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    our discs compress and decompress all the time - not just under shock - joints need spacers in order to act as joints.
    I agree, but they mostly compress if we're supporting a vertical load with our spine, for example. The decompression can begin when the compression stops, and it is delayed if the compression lasts longer.

    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    oh well we're getting off track - the focus here was hanging upside down.
    I guess, I'm all for inverted and um... verted? traction both.

    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    my point is that like massage can be nice relieve, but is better when backed up with active mobiliazation to make sure that those suspended joints can move under control and under demand - how mobile are the verts in one's spine? that doesn't often come by passively hanging but by actively practicing - giving the brain a map - of movement to follow.
    Mobilizing the vertebrae can be difficult for people whose discs are flat, some people get pain from nerve impingement. Passive hanging is only an initial step, most people do mobility exercises while under traction. Simply hanging is like a warmup.

    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    We're use it or lose it organisms: if we don't practice self-controlled movement of a joint, not only does atrophy and crap set in, but the brain map about how to do that movement starts to decay if it was ever built at all. the brain will use those neurons to do other things better - which may be crappy movement that's getting reinforced.
    This is true. Part of teaching the nerves is allowing them to send their messages, hopefully painfree, though.
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  17. #47
    Registered User jamieharris1234's Avatar
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    I've had some good luck with spinal decompression, actually seeing my chiropractor. Results started to come in after about 2 months. More of a pain relief solution than a total fix, but I'm still grateful for that. Did you end up going through with this?
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by insatiablebulk View Post
    As a licensed physical therapist studying MDT (I am biased, but personally I think this is the best for disc-related problems) try prone extensions. Decompression may not necessarily be what you need. Without actually seeing you I am obviously giving this as a general exercise for your spine, as there are different exercises/positions you can do tailored to your particular problem. Basically, lay prone on your stomach. With your butt and legs relax do a push-up, extending your elbows as far as you can, while keeping your hips on the ground. Do at least ten as long as you don't have any radiating symptoms or increased pain. If anything it should just feel like a pressure at the end-range of movement and relief when you return to the bottom position. Without getting into it too much, you can basically milk a disc into place depending on the severity of the bulge. We live our lives in flexion, constantly bending over, sitting in slumped postures, etc. where eventually it takes a toll and eventually a person can bulge/rupture/etc. a disc as the disc wall weakens over time. This is further complicated with bodybuilding with the deadlifts/squats we do. I think more people should be doing prone extensions after deadlifts/squats more so as a preventative/maintenance measure, which I have added to my routine.

    Again I am just giving you a general technique you can try to see if it works. I see disc-related problems often in the clinic and an extension-principle gets the majority of people better that don't require surgery. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions as I might miss any updates in this thread (not on here that often).

    McKenzie ;-)
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  19. #49
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    Spinal Exercises to help your herniated DISC

    You need ELDOA's. ELDOA's are the only effective spinal decompression exercises in the industry. You can search for ELDOA online to find an instructor or go to somafinder.com For more info about ELDOA's go to ELDOAmethod.com or BeachFitness.com

    Hope this helps!!

    Bryce Turner



    Originally Posted by rfaz13 View Post
    Hey guys, Ive been dealing with a herniated disc for about a year and a half now... thought I was good up until a few days ago I seem to have re-tweaked it (dont even know how, pretty sure I moved the wrong way). Ive been feeling great lately, really strong and flexable. Ive been back in the gym for about 3 months now after taking over a year off due to the injury and everything was looking up...

    Im looking for some good AT HOME spinal decompression exercises. I just spent almost an hour looking on youtube and crap like that but everything I found was garbage, it just made my back hurt even more...


    Any help would be appreciated.
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