Dairy and contest prep

[inbf4life]

Anyone eliminate it while contest prepping?? or can greek yogurt still be my best friend

[rewaste]

Anyone eliminate it while contest prepping?? or can greek yogurt still be my best friend

Dairy will make alot of people hold water and smooth you out. I know I dropped it 6 weeks out.

[simpleguy4]

If you have no sensitivities to it there is no reason to eliminate it. Experiment early in the prep with and without it and see if you notice a difference....everyone is different and may/may not have adverse affects.

[Animal76]

I personally would eliminate all dairy during contest prep.

Anyone eliminate it while contest prepping?? or can greek yogurt still be my best friend

[red_cat]

Dairy will make alot of people hold water and smooth you out. I know I dropped it 6 weeks out.

Most humans are very slightly lactose intolerant...not enough to cause a lot of issues, but enough to make them hold a little bit of water. I'd drop the dairy 4-6 weeks out to be safe.

[Cumulonimbus]

Dairy will make alot of people hold water and smooth you out. I know I dropped it 6 weeks out.

No... it won't.

I personally would eliminate all dairy during contest prep.

LOL and why?

[wheathins]

No... it won't.

LOL and why?

in for responses...

[red_cat]

No... it won't.

LOL and why?

in for responses...

Most humans are very slightly lactose intolerant...not enough to cause a lot of issues, but enough to make them hold a little bit of water. I'd drop the dairy 4-6 weeks out to be safe.

There is a natural drop in lactase production after the first couple years of life in most mammals. In some populations, the drop off is higher than others. For a white, American male, the chance is much smaller that they will exhibit full on lactose intolerance, but there is still a drop off of lactase production.

Thus, drop dairy to be safe. Better safe than sorry (and possibly bloated).

[Animal76]

No... it won't.

LOL and why?

my opinion based on experience...29 competitions over 14 years + i've worked with a lot of competitors. Many people will have an unfavorable reaction to dairy in that it will make them look softer...why chance it....additionally, most dairy has carbs and if i'm limiting the amount of carbs I eat, then i'd prefer to get them from sources that will help rather than hinder me (things I respond well to). This is my approach and my 2 cents...not looking for an argument, you can take it for what it's worth. Everyone has the right to do whatever they think will make them look their best.

Aside from Greek Yogurt, I don't really eat dairy in the off-season anymore...haven't for quite some time. Elimination of things like Dairy and gluten containing products in the off-season have enabled me to stay leaner and harder...this makes for an easy transition into prep (FOR ME). Everyone is different and this is what works best for me.

[Cumulonimbus]

There is a natural drop in lactase production after the first couple years of life in most mammals. In some populations, the drop off is higher than others. For a white, American male, the chance is much smaller that they will exhibit full on lactose intolerance, but there is still a drop off of lactase production.

Thus, drop dairy to be safe. Better safe than sorry (and possibly bloated).

Dude... if you think milk is holding down your condition on stage.. try dieting down harder. Serious.

Bodybuilders are fukcing retards when it comes to cutting out food sources. There is a stupid notion going on saying you need beef in your diet, you need whole foods, dairy makes you hold water, whey makes you hold water/low TEF, minimally processed foods, etc,etc.. all of this is said to make an individual come in crisp condition, and better yet.. be HEALTHY. What these people don't understand is that by eliminating foods from their diet, they are restricting themselves from an array of micronutrient dense foods (left out phytonutrient dense foods because BB'ers are fixated on veggies). Many BB'ers are Vitamin D and Calcium deficient, as well as Mg, Zn and Cu deficient. They also tend to avoid shakes because they are derived from milk or are 'heavily processed'. Yes that's correct, however a processed food doesn't mean the food is deemed of all nutrients. Whey is highly processed, however taking a closer look at whey.. it is FAR more superior than red meat when it comes to BCAA and FFAA profile, as well as prevent cancer and other diseases and aid in the formation of bones/osteoblasts . Many will then argue.. oh well you ill be iron deficient. Sure you will be.. if you continue eating the way you do by eliminating many foods such as dark chocolate which is loaded with iron, and a bunch of other goodies.

Now I was also going to discuss fruit avoidance.. which is also ridiculous, however the point of the thread was to see if milk is acceptable during prep... and to answer that. YES IT IS ACCEPTABLE.



inb4 you're not taking bodybuilding seriously

[Cumulonimbus]

my opinion based on experience...29 competitions over 14 years + i've worked with a lot of competitors. Many people will have an unfavorable reaction to dairy in that it will make them look softer...why chance it....additionally, most dairy has carbs and if i'm limiting the amount of carbs I eat, then i'd prefer to get them from sources that will help rather than hinder me (things I respond well to). This is my approach and my 2 cents...not looking for an argument, you can take it for what it's worth. Everyone has the right to do whatever they think will make them look their best.

Aside from Greek Yogurt, I don't really eat dairy in the off-season anymore...haven't for quite some time. Elimination of things like Dairy and gluten containing products in the off-season have enabled me to stay leaner and harder...this makes for an easy transition into prep (FOR ME). Everyone is different and this is what works best for me.

If you were to see my face right now, you would realize not a single fukc was given that you have 14+ years of experience in competing. The fact is your anecdote is nothing compared to empirical scientific evidence. That is like me saying.. I cut out all the chocolate from my diet and everything else remained the same, and I lost weight.

Also, mind explaining to me through what metabolic pathways dairy and gluten will make an individual leaner, with both meals being isocaloric.

First bold; no.. just no... good luck with being micronutrient deficient, despite all the greens you are eating.

Second bold; exactly, everyone is entitled to do what they want, so you pushing your anecdotal evidence which is proven otherwise through science should be kept out of this discussion.

[red_cat]

Dude... if you think milk is holding down your condition on stage.. try dieting down harder. Serious.

Dude...try calming down a little bit. Nobody was taking shots at you. We're just having a discussion.

What these people don't understand is that by eliminating foods from their diet, they are restricting themselves from an array of micronutrient dense foods (left out phytonutrient dense foods because BB'ers are fixated on veggies).

Eliminating dairy will not cause you to be micronutrient deficient. Period. You can have a diverse diet without any dairy products. Sure, if all you live on is chicken, spinach, rice, and oats...you'll have a deficiency. I don't think anyone ITT was talking about that, though.

Now I was also going to discuss fruit avoidance.. which is also ridiculous, however the point of the thread was to see if milk is acceptable during prep... and to answer that. YES IT IS ACCEPTABLE.

Avoiding fruit is silly. I agree. Tons of benefits to fruit during prep. I didn't eat any on my last prep, but I plan on incorporating it the next time I diet down.

inb4 you're not taking bodybuilding seriously

You clearly DO take it seriously (as shown by your avi), but you're being very short-sighted. If someone feels a little bloated after consuming dairy products, they probably shouldn't be eating those foods during the final stages of a contest prep. I drink milk/eat cottage cheese every day during the off-season, but when it comes down to getting on stage, I know that my body bloats a little bit from dairy...so I eliminate it from my diet. That's just knowing your body and what works well for you.

[Cumulonimbus]

Dude...try calming down a little bit. Nobody was taking shots at you. We're just having a discussion.

That wasn't a shot, I was simply stating if you think milk was holding you down.. you're incorrect

Eliminating dairy will not cause you to be micronutrient deficient. Period. You can have a diverse diet without any dairy products. Sure, if all you live on is chicken, spinach, rice, and oats...you'll have a deficiency. I don't think anyone ITT was talking about that, though.

Let me ask you this, how many servings of kale and okra are you going to eat daily to make up for any calcium deficiencies?


Avoiding fruit is silly. I agree. Tons of benefits to fruit during prep. I didn't eat any on my last prep, but I plan on incorporating it the next time I diet down.

Why did you cut it out in the first place?

You clearly DO take it seriously (as shown by your avi), but you're being very short-sighted. If someone feels a little bloated after consuming dairy products, they probably shouldn't be eating those foods during the final stages of a contest prep. I drink milk/eat cottage cheese every day during the off-season, but when it comes down to getting on stage, I know that my body bloats a little bit from dairy...so I eliminate it from my diet. That's just knowing your body and what works well for you.

I don't think you quite understand what I meant by "not taking bodybuilding seriously"

As for the bloating.. what if an individual, like myself, is not lactose intolerant? Will you tell them to cut it out? Boy.. they sure will be doing themselves a huge favor by cutting out dairy and not only being deficient in micros, but not benefiting from milks superior BCAA and AA profile.

And lastly.. if you're prepping for 20+ weeks and milk does in fact bloat YOU up, why would you cut it out from the very beginning? I mean we just went from something sketchy to full blown retard

Bold

[fltallpaul]

you would realize not a single fukc was given that you have 14+ years of experience in competing. so you pushing your anecdotal evidence which is proven otherwise through science should be kept out of this discussion.

You make some valid points but it's OK to make your points without so much aggression. Kurt is a phenomenal bodybuilder and is providing his input without attacking you, show some class please. We are all here to get better and we can do that without attacking each others beliefs.

I personally don't handle lactose all that well but began taking Lactaid which has helped. I have never had an issue with whey and thank god as its a life saver. I plan to see a Dr. about any possible allergies to other items so I can avoid things that don't jive with my body.

[Cumulonimbus]

We're in this together guys, be positive!

/sarcasm

Yet it's totally acceptable for Kurt to bash Berto's food choices and telling people who enjoy a variety of foods that they are not taking bodybuilding seriously.

Also, he pretty much tried making me appeal to his authority by bringing up his experience..

[fltallpaul]

We're in this together guys, be positive!

/sarcasm

Yet it's totally acceptable for Kurt to bash Berto's food choices and telling people who enjoy a variety of foods that they are not taking bodybuilding seriously.

Also, he pretty much tried making me appeal to his authority by bringing up his experience..

where in this thread did Kurt bash anyone? you have a great attitude /sarcasm

[Cumulonimbus]

where in this thread did Kurt bash anyone? you have a great attitude /sarcasm

Not in this thread, from a previous thread and rather LONG rant he made, that had no scientific data supporting it.

[red_cat]

Let me ask you this, how many servings of kale and okra are you going to eat daily to make up for any calcium deficiencies?

Do you know that I have a calcium deficiency? No.

Why did you cut it out in the first place?

Because I was following the advice of a seasoned professional. I trusted his advice my first time around, but have since done some more reading on the subject and have formulated my own opinion.


I don't think you quite understand what I meant by "not taking bodybuilding seriously"

Clearly, I don't.

As for the bloating.. what if an individual, like myself, is not lactose intolerant? Will you tell them to cut it out? Boy.. they sure will be doing themselves a huge favor by cutting out dairy and not only being deficient in micros, but not benefiting from milks superior BCAA and AA profile.

No. I wouldn't tell them to cut milk out. That would be dumb. Go drink your milk and be happy.

And lastly.. if you're prepping for 20+ weeks and milk does in fact bloat YOU up, why would you cut it out from the very beginning? I mean we just went from something sketchy to full blown retard

When did I say I would cut it out for the entire 20+ weeks of my prep!?! My initial recommendation for the OP was 4-6 weeks out. I stand by that statement.

I don't know who crapped in your Wheaties today, but you've been ridiculously aggressive in your responses while everyone around you has been civil. It's uncalled for.

[Cumulonimbus]

Do you know that I have a calcium deficiency? No.

Most bodybuilders think they live a healthy lifestyle and receive an abundance of micronutrients, when in fact that's far from what is really going on.

Because I was following the advice of a seasoned professional. I trusted his advice my first time around, but have since done some more reading on the subject and have formulated my own opinion.

Seasoned professional =/= knowledgeable

Clearly, I don't.

It was a reference that Kurt made towards people who enjoy a bit of moderation

No. I wouldn't tell them to cut milk out. That would be dumb. Go drink your milk and be happy.

Then don't tell the OP to cut it out if you don't know any background medical history

When did I say I would cut it out for the entire 20+ weeks of my prep!?! My initial recommendation for the OP was 4-6 weeks out. I stand by that statement.

From your own comment "I know that my body bloats a little bit from dairy...so I eliminate it from my diet."

di·et 1

1. The usual food and drink of a person or animal.
2. A regulated selection of foods, as for medical reasons or cosmetic weight loss.
3. Something used, enjoyed, or provided regularly

I don't know who crapped in your Wheaties today, but you've been ridiculously aggressive in your responses while everyone around you has been civil. It's uncalled for.

I actually ate Lucky Charms with milk today for breakfast at around 1:00pm. However since one of my meals are not micronutrient packed, I screwed over my entire diet and I clearly am not taking bodybuilding seriously.

[inbf4life]

Dude... if you think milk is holding down your condition on stage.. try dieting down harder. Serious.

Bodybuilders are fukcing retards when it comes to cutting out food sources. There is a stupid notion going on saying you need beef in your diet, you need whole foods, dairy makes you hold water, whey makes you hold water/low TEF, minimally processed foods, etc,etc.. all of this is said to make an individual come in crisp condition, and better yet.. be HEALTHY. What these people don't understand is that by eliminating foods from their diet, they are restricting themselves from an array of micronutrient dense foods (left out phytonutrient dense foods because BB'ers are fixated on veggies). Many BB'ers are Vitamin D and Calcium deficient, as well as Mg, Zn and Cu deficient. They also tend to avoid shakes because they are derived from milk or are 'heavily processed'. Yes that's correct, however a processed food doesn't mean the food is deemed of all nutrients. Whey is highly processed, however taking a closer look at whey.. it is FAR more superior than red meat when it comes to BCAA and FFAA profile, as well as prevent cancer and other diseases and aid in the formation of bones/osteoblasts . Many will then argue.. oh well you ill be iron deficient. Sure you will be.. if you continue eating the way you do by eliminating many foods such as dark chocolate which is loaded with iron, and a bunch of other goodies.

Now I was also going to discuss fruit avoidance.. which is also ridiculous, however the point of the thread was to see if milk is acceptable during prep... and to answer that. YES IT IS ACCEPTABLE.



inb4 you're not taking bodybuilding seriously

I am not taking bodybuilding seriously?? i dont understand where that came from?? iam simply looking for input to see how others incorporate dairy into their contest preps. I cut dairy out for both my previous shows and i love greek yogurt. I dont want to give it up but if it will better me in the end to cut it out and give me a easier contest prep then i will do what it takes to better myself in the end. Please do not judge me nor talk to anyone in the forum like you know them. Everyone here has put months,years,decades of dedication into their bodies and they do what it takes no matter what the sacrifice. I have more respect for bodybuilders then i do for most because i know what they go through ive been through the same.

[Cumulonimbus]

I am not taking bodybuilding seriously?? i dont understand where that came from?? iam simply looking for input to see how others incorporate dairy into their contest preps. I cut dairy out for both my previous shows and i love greek yogurt. I dont want to give it up but if it will better me in the end to cut it out and give me a easier contest prep then i will do what it takes to better myself in the end. Please do not judge me nor talk to anyone in the forum like you know them. Everyone here has put months,years,decades of dedication into their bodies and they do what it takes no matter what the sacrifice. I have more respect for bodybuilders then i do for most because i know what they go through ive been through the same.

You're clearly unaware.. which I made others aware in my previous post..

[bwelch1985]

Personally, dairy (at least milk) causes me to bloat a bit....and that's exactly why I KEEP IT IN during prep. A little bit of bloating goes a long way towards increasing satiety imo I'll drop it the last week or so, but prior to that I enjoy feeling full so I keep it around.

[red_cat]

From your own comment "I know that my body bloats a little bit from dairy...so I eliminate it from my diet."

di·et 1

1. The usual food and drink of a person or animal.
2. A regulated selection of foods, as for medical reasons or cosmetic weight loss.
3. Something used, enjoyed, or provided regularly

Your diet can change on a regular basis. If you went through an entire contest prep without changing your diet once then you'd fail miserably. Again, I would cut dairy out of my diet around 4-6 weeks out from my show. I would not cut it for the entire length of my prep. I thought I was pretty clear on that...do I need to repeat myself again for you?

I actually ate Lucky Charms with milk today for breakfast at around 1:00pm. However since one of my meals are not micronutrient packed, I screwed over my entire diet and I clearly am not taking bodybuilding seriously.

Good for you. I never implied that you didn't take this seriously. Clearly I don't take bodybuilding seriously either since I eat Pop Tarts on a daily basis.

Any good information you've provided in your posts has been overshadowed by the complete lack of class you've displayed. You've got to get a hold on the attitude, brah.

[str8flexed]

there's no evidence that dairy impedes fat loss, in fact several studies show dairy actually increased fat loss. If you have any sort of allergy or intolerance to it, then obviously do not consume it

[inbf4life]

there's no evidence that dairy impedes fat loss, in fact several studies show dairy actually increased fat loss. If you have any sort of allergy or intolerance to it, then obviously do not consume it

Thanks Layne, Not for nothing but you are a bodybuilder i look up to big time. I have read your articles of yours which helped me compete for my first and second show. I would like to do this upcoming up by keeping my dairy in... the only dairy i really have is 0% Fat Greek yogurt it really helps me with the cravings and i put a packet of sweet and low in it which really makes it taste delicious. I will take your advice and keep it in and see how my body comes in around week 6,,,iam currently 12 weeks out.

[CaseySmithBB]

OP, I personally eat the living hell out of dairy! So much so that it's actually quite disturbing! haha

BOOM!


I agree with a great deal of what everyone is saying above. However, it is all going to boil down to how well you know your body and how it responds to the food you put in it.

Cumulonimbus.....I like you. Sometimes you just have to give conventional dieting the middle finger and be one of the first-movers towards challenging the "rules" of dieting.

There are too many people out there telling their friends, family, clients, fellow bodybuilders, etc. anybody in general, the things they ABSOLUTELY CAN'T include in their diet.

I want to know how I can include EVERYTHING in my diet! Let's work on how to do THAT!

[str8flexed]

Thanks Layne, Not for nothing but you are a bodybuilder i look up to big time. I have read your articles of yours which helped me compete for my first and second show. I would like to do this upcoming up by keeping my dairy in... the only dairy i really have is 0% Fat Greek yogurt it really helps me with the cravings and i put a packet of sweet and low in it which really makes it taste delicious. I will take your advice and keep it in and see how my body comes in around week 6,,,iam currently 12 weeks out.

if you haven't noticed any ill effects I see no reason to remove it. However, if you are concerned, just cut it out the last week

[Animal76]

I debated whether it was even worth responding...I quickly remembered why I have stayed off the boards for some time.
Anyway, I will make a few points and then i'm abandoning this thread with regret for ever commenting at all.

First off, I was providing a simple response to a simple question...someone asked if anyone eliminates dairy during prep and my answer was yes...I identified that it's what I DO, but never said anything about a right or wrong way to do things...

If I know that consuming certain dairy (such as milk) will make me look and feel like sh*t, why WOULD i include it in my diet??? I recognize that everyone is different and responds very differently to the same variables...part of why anecdotal evidence is necessary to look at...I will also say that some degree of lactose intolerance, allergenic responses to milk and digestive issues are not uncommon in conjunction with milk ingestion. For those who don't have issues, be thankful! For those who aren't sure, I would carefully assess yourself, before deciding to include things like milk in your diet. Even if you're not lactose intolerant and don't have allergies, milk is not the best option for consumption anytime prior to a workout...i've had plenty of clients learn this lesson the hard way.

When I evaluate food selection, I ask myself "what is the food a significant and optimal source of? what key macronutrient am I getting from it?" In my eyes, the benefit of milk is in the protein (high quality protein, high BV)...the problem, however is that it has 1.5 times as much carbs as protein (1 cup skim milk has 8g protein and 12g sugar)...for this reason IT IS MY OPINION that it's not an efficient or optimal way to get protein, especially during a time when you're specifically trying to limit carbohydrate intake (contest prep).
I can get plenty of protein from other sources without getting the sugar I don't want at that time. Micronutrients, such as calcium you can also get from other sources...like broccoli, which I eat tons of.

Not sure where the idea came from, that not including dairy is going to cause deficiencies. You can easily replace what nutrients you would get from dairy with other things.

Regardless, I have no business offering contest prep advice, because i'm just a f***ing idiot, who thoughtlessly cut outs food sources for no reason. Don't worry, I won't bother ever trying to answer a question on here again...I'll leave that to the experts. I apparently should completely re evaluate how I prep for shows...my flawed approach is likely the reason for my lack of success..oh well, back to the drawing board i guess .
Just realize that while you are insulting my approach to contest prep, you are also insulting the methods of those who agree with my theories and utilize very similar approaches...guys like Brian Whitacre, Doug Miller, Rob Moran and Tommy Jeffers to name a few...I guess these guys are all f***ing idiots too using the same flawed approach...no wonder they have seen so little success as competitors

Lastly, I was not trying to throw my experience in anyone's face...I was simply asked the reason I use the approach I use and I stated it was based on my experience (experience as a competitor over a number of years and show + experience working with clients attempting to determine what yields the best results and what are the most common denominators)

Cumulonimbus, you obviously have an issue with me...based on your conviction regarding prep methods (which we all can agree with disagree), I figured you must be a seasoned veteran...I guess I was somewhat surprised when I looked at your profile to see that you're 18 yrs old.

[Philip81193]

[Webber91]

I share similar views as Kurt. I don't have dairy in my diet, but that's largely because I prefer to get my protein from lean meats and my carbs from grains/veggies. It's just a lot easier to measure that way, when you only need to count one macronutrient in the food choice rather than all 3. The aforementioned choices also make my diet more satiating. It may sound stupid, but I prep right in the middle of winter and prefer steaming hot stir fries to a cold glass of milk or yoghurt concoction The summer is totally different though, I go nuts on GY!

It's easy to hit your micronutrient requirements without dairy, but if you don't experience any issues with it then there is no reason to cut it. If you haven't felt gassy or sick while consuming dairy before, I don't see why that would change when you're prepping unless you've unnecessarily avoided it for a long period.