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  1. #91
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    No! Don't! Under no circumstances!

    ..

    Do not meddle with any of Mark Rippetoe's programs. He knows what he is doing, and he is getting people very strong very fast his way. Assistance work is unnecessary in the beginning and takes away regeneration from your lovely compound exercises.
    Notsureifsrs... You think 3 sets of curls/side laterals is going to take away from his recovery?

  2. #92
    Registered User hankst's Avatar
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    I suggest you read Starting Strength before messing with Mark Rippetoe's program .
    Why do you think his biceps and shoulders won't get enough work anyway? There is plenty of pulling and pushing in the program.

  3. #93
    Qalandvious NVious's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    I suggest you read Starting Strength before messing with Mark Rippetoe's program .
    Why do you think his biceps and shoulders won't get enough work anyway? There is plenty of pulling and pushing in the program.
    I've read SS, I've done the program myself. If you want to increase your deadlift/squat it's a great way to do it, however a ton of people report seeing little/no gains on their bench. This was something that I experienced, my squat and dead went up easily however my bench stalled and refused to move.

    Adding some assistance work helps to not only create a balanced physique, but also strengthens areas which are going to be vital in your development as a lifter. Any program that claims that if you tinker with it in any way you're going to screw it up is just preaching dogmatic "I know best" attitude. I'll tell you this if I were to go back and do it again, I'd do a lot more than 3 sets, but I think he'd see good results just doing 3 for now.

  4. #94
    Registered User hankst's Avatar
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    Okay, we can agree on that. Assistance exercises are good if you know what you're doing, and how your body responds. Otherwise just stick to uncle Rip's recommendations.

    Everything's rainbows and unicorns again.

  5. #95
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    What it says in Rippetoe's Starting Strength FAQ Regarding the posts above

    Can I add an exercise (like curls or abs)?
    The short answer is no, do not add anything. Your recovery capacity is going to be taxed by this program once it gets going and anything else you do will tap into that. Remember that a large aspect of recovery is systemic. If you really feel that you must do curls for your biceps then do 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps on your last lifting day of the week. Do them standing with a straight barbell.

    Do not add significant ab work. It is possible to do som light to moderate ab work as a warmup or immediate post workout. If I don't forget I will link one of Rippetoe's little writeups on abs here later.


    thats just regarding the posts above
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
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  6. #96
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    ive been think about it it seems very confusing to me maybe cuz i read it all and i need to take it in or something I dont know but thats for starting strenght it says novice alot and im not as strong as i used to be (obvisously) but how come everyone thinks i should do this and not lyle's just curious no dis or rudeness implied....its just it seems easier to STICK to lyles just seems i just want to know everyones thoughts.... thank you and thnx for being in my log
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  7. #97
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    In. Great log, young man. Great attitude. Eat strong and lift your ass off. Count nothing except reps.

    Will be lurking.
    The above statement/post does not represent the opinions of anyone in real life. This is the internet. Not real life. Anyone who cannot grasp the difference between the two lacks the basic intelligence necessary for survival and should not be allowed to form opinions.

  8. #98
    Registered User mike201011's Avatar
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    Log is Braggable approved.


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  9. #99
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    Originally Posted by mike201011 View Post
    Log is Braggable approved.


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    haha
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  10. #100
    Not banned afterall MarkVI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    No! Don't! Under no circumstances!

    ..

    Do not meddle with any of Mark Rippetoe's programs. He knows what he is doing,
    and he is getting people very strong very fast his way. Assistance work is unnecessary in the beginning and takes away regeneration from your lovely compound exercises.
    He's not God bro. And his program has room for improvement....I didn't do any arm or shoulder work for a while and did SS when I started out and you know what...my arms suck and are still catching up and delts are only now up to par but still behind chest/back/legs....

    Originally Posted by NVious View Post
    Notsureifsrs... You think 3 sets of curls/side laterals is going to take away from his recovery?
    This x 1000

    Originally Posted by raiku5 View Post
    ive been think about it it seems very confusing to me maybe cuz i read it all and i need to take it in or something I dont know but thats for starting strenght it says novice alot and im not as strong as i used to be (obvisously) but how come everyone thinks i should do this and not lyle's just curious no dis or rudeness implied....its just it seems easier to STICK to lyles just seems i just want to know everyones thoughts.... thank you and thnx for being in my log

    I vote S.S. but on your first day do 4 heavy sets of barbell curls, 2nd day do some Shoulder work (think like 4 sets of lateral raises) and 3rd day you can add in a few sets of both....

    Lyle's program is what you should do after SS
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  11. #101
    Registered User hankst's Avatar
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    He is not doing classical SS, but the Practical Programming novice program, which has him doing Chin Ups and Pull Ups on Monday and Friday, which should be sufficient arm work for a beginner, imho.

    But that is just my take on it. When in doubt, don't screw with Rip .

  12. #102
    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    He's not God bro. And his program has room for improvement....I didn't do any arm or shoulder work for a while and did SS when I started out and you know what...my arms suck and are still catching up and delts are only now up to par but still behind chest/back/legs....



    This x 1000




    I vote S.S. but on your first day do 4 heavy sets of barbell curls, 2nd day do some Shoulder work (think like 4 sets of lateral raises) and 3rd day you can add in a few sets of both....

    Lyle's program is what you should do after SS
    can u send it to me in a message again like how u wrote it out last time srry makes it easier (feel like im 4 lol)

    and again thnx mark dont know what i do without u (DEAD srs)
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  13. #103
    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    He is not doing classical SS, but the Practical Programming novice program, which has him doing Chin Ups and Pull Ups on Monday and Friday, which should be sufficient arm work for a beginner, imho.

    But that is just my take on it. When in doubt, don't screw with Rip .
    thnx for commenting in my log man means alot hope you stcik around throught the whole journey and see my crappy cals burned
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  14. #104
    Qalandvious NVious's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by raiku5 View Post
    Can I add an exercise (like curls or abs)?
    The short answer is no, do not add anything. Your recovery capacity is going to be taxed by this program once it gets going and anything else you do will tap into that. Remember that a large aspect of recovery is systemic. If you really feel that you must do curls for your biceps then do 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps on your last lifting day of the week. Do them standing with a straight barbell.

    Do not add significant ab work. It is possible to do som light to moderate ab work as a warmup or immediate post workout. If I don't forget I will link one of Rippetoe's little writeups on abs here later.


    thats just regarding the posts above
    I'm not telling you this to undermine what Rip is saying. I'm telling you this from my own personal experience. If your goal is to be big and strong you're going to have to do those movements sooner or later, the reasoning behind what I said is to lay down a foundation from the very start. That way you're not playing catch up later on. If your goal is to get in /out of the gym in 30 minutes and improve your squat/dead, do the program as is.

    I know you're just starting out and it can be VERY confusing, we've all been there. It takes a lot of courage to do this and I commend you for starting so early, but one thing that is going to make you stand out even more is questioning everything and making up your own mind. Everything you read is meant to be a guideline, there are no rules and if someone is cocky enough to insinuate that their teachings are perfect it's your responsibility to decipher whether they are truth seekers or snake oil salesmen.

  15. #105
    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NVious View Post
    I'm not telling you this to undermine what Rip is saying. I'm telling you this from my own personal experience. If your goal is to be big and strong you're going to have to do this movements sooner or later, the reasoning behind what I said is to lay down a foundation from the very start. That way you're not playing catch up later on. If your goal is to get in /out of the gym in 30 minutes and improve your squat/dead, do the program as is.

    I know you're just starting out and it can be VERY confusing, we've all been there. It takes a lot of courage to do this and I commend you for starting so early, but one thing that is going to make you stand out even more is questioning everything and making up your own mind. Everything you read is meant to be a guideline, there are no rules and if someone is cocky enough to insinuate that their teachings are perfect it's your responsibility to decipher whether they are truth seekers or snake oil salesmen.
    i agree man 100% the thing that i posted was from the FAQ of SS and i agree i dont want my arms to be small haha or chest
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  16. #106
    Qalandvious NVious's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by raiku5 View Post
    i agree man 100% the thing that i posted was from the FAQ of SS and i agree i dont want my arms to be small haha or chest
    It's good that you're doing your own research, but if you want to learn about anything you need to implement theory and practice. I.e don't just read about nature and it's patterns, go out there and observe it. If someone can't explain something to you (whether it be me, Rip or anyone), they aren't worth listening to. If they're just going to say "DO IT BECAUSE I SAY SO" or "What do you mean? Just do as I say"

    Make up your own mind from what you're reading, I wish you the best of luck and trust me you're ahead of 99.9% of kids your age and if you stick with it, by the time you're 18/19 you'll be putting everyone in this section to shame.

  17. #107
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    Originally Posted by NVious View Post
    It's good that you're doing your own research, but if you want to learn about anything you need to implement theory and practice. I.e don't just read about nature and it's patterns, go out there and observe it. If someone can't explain something to you (whether it be me, Rip or anyone), they aren't worth listening to. If they're just going to say "DO IT BECAUSE I SAY SO" or "What do you mean? Just do as I say"

    Make up your own mind from what you're reading, I wish you the best of luck and trust me you're ahead of 99.9% of kids your age and if you stick with it, by the time you're 18/19 you'll be putting everyone in this section to shame.
    thnx man
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  18. #108
    Self proclaimed sorcerer Bnizzle163's Avatar
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    Sometimes people have to realize that less is more. I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but at this point, I believe following the routine to the "T" without any modifications will benefit you the most.
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  19. #109
    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bnizzle163 View Post
    Sometimes people have to realize that less is more. I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but at this point, I believe following the routine to the "T" without any modifications will benefit you the most.
    just curious what did u do when u bulk JUST CURIOUS haha
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

    Overall Goal:200lbs 10%bf
    Short term:120lbs at whatever bf% lower than 16%
    What I want:To be taller haha
    Feel Free to send me pm's :p

  20. #110
    Not banned afterall MarkVI's Avatar
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    I PM'd you my opinion...basically some barbell curls day 1 and laterals day 2

    I think you'll get plenty of tricep work with the benching.

    Again this is my experience and watching others do SS....
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  21. #111
    Self proclaimed sorcerer Bnizzle163's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by raiku5 View Post
    just curious what did u do when u bulk JUST CURIOUS haha
    Started with an Upper/Lower then did SS, then Layne Norton's PHAT routine... basically always did high frequency.
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  22. #112
    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    I PM'd you my opinion...basically some barbell curls day 1 and laterals day 2

    I think you'll get plenty of tricep work with the benching.

    Again this is my experience and watching others do SS....
    thnx sent u a message back expendture will be up late tomorrow or early friday just in case u were curious u rock man!
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

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  23. #113
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    Originally Posted by Bnizzle163 View Post
    Started with an Upper/Lower then did SS, then Layne Norton's PHAT routine... basically always did high frequency.
    wow thats why ur awesome that and just cuz ur cool ;p
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

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  24. #114
    Registered User Bonny_Lassie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    That is an unfair comparison. Sprinters train in the weight room, there is no world class sprinter who squats less than 200 kg. Marathon runners don't.

    Their appearance has not much to do with how long they run.
    Huh? I think it demonstrated my point perfectly. Clearly these guys train for performance rather than aesthetics, but it was just to show Raiku the 2 different effects that high intensity v low intensity training will have on a persons physique. And I'm assuming he would much rather have a physique resembling the sprinter than the marathoner.

    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    I vote S.S. but on your first day do 4 heavy sets of barbell curls, 2nd day do some Shoulder work (think like 4 sets of lateral raises) and 3rd day you can add in a few sets of both....

    Lyle's program is what you should do after SS
    I agree with all the above! BUT if you feel that the extra assistance exercises are affecting your recovery/performance on your big lifts, or you don't have the strength/energy to perform them correctly, then drop them! Trial and error is the key !
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    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    *UPDATE* coming tonight along with a little food porn
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

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  26. #116
    Christian Insulin Spiker raiku5's Avatar
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    i love it when u comment
    Yo well I decided i'm going to stay on this site and not say bye....why because I want to(and some people said to just lurk if I enjoy it and still post so I will because I enjoy it) :p I will give an update if asked so yeaaa

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  27. #117
    Not banned afterall MarkVI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by raiku5 View Post
    i love it when u comment
    Cause she's gorgeous or cause she's smart?













    (hint: there is not a wrong answer)
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  28. #118
    Registered User hankst's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bonny_Lassie View Post
    Huh? I think it demonstrated my point perfectly. Clearly these guys train for performance rather than aesthetics, but it was just to show Raiku the 2 different effects that high intensity v low intensity training will have on a persons physique. And I'm assuming he would much rather have a physique resembling the sprinter than the marathoner.
    That was not the point I was criticizing .
    My point was that sprinters don't look like they do because they sprint, but because a lot of their training is done in the weight room, whereas marathon runners don't lift, because they do not need explosive power, and additional muscle would only slow them down in the long run.

    The meaning and intent of your example was great (short and heavy over long and half-assed), but the example itself was a bit unfair, like comparing apples to oranges.

  29. #119
    LvL 99 jimmy Rustler vitornoob's Avatar
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    well, i would say: start with SS without add things, after 2 or 3 weeks, that you have understood how to do the lifts, you add some extras, like Rip says in the book...

    or you can follow a second track, you follow the SS for 6 weeks, and change after that for a mixing of strength and hipertrophy....

    take a look at the book and the starting strength wiki....Rip says about adding extras exercises in your routine, but, just to help the main lifts
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  30. #120
    Registered User Bonny_Lassie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    Cause she's gorgeous or cause she's smart?













    (hint: there is not a wrong answer)
    Aww come on - now I'm blushing

    Originally Posted by hankst View Post
    That was not the point I was criticizing .
    My point was that sprinters don't look like they do because they sprint, but because a lot of their training is done in the weight room, whereas marathon runners don't lift, because they do not need explosive power, and additional muscle would only slow them down in the long run.

    The meaning and intent of your example was great (short and heavy over long and half-assed), but the example itself was a bit unfair, like comparing apples to oranges.
    Cool, I know what you're saying, and I totally was not trying to upset anyone who might be an endurance athlete (heck I was one for long enough - a bit of me still loves it!).

    But as well as my point about high/low intensity, I also wanted to encourage Raiku to get into the weights room (hit it hard, short and sharp) and away from the cardio
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