Calories taken in question

[jayluk4600]

Ok so sadly the thing with this nutritionist I was so excited about didn't work out. Not really gonna go into details but I have a question about calories taken in.

I get the whole eating clean thing and I eat pretty dang healthy and I have also seen it debated that calories are calories no matter what form they come in and I have seen people say OMG you gotta eat clean or the calories are tainted or some crap. But this isn't my question I am just saying I understand all that.

What I wanna know is since I have a hard time feeding myself the way my body needs to be fed.. I am rarely hungry ughh.. So I am in the process of choking food down to hit about 2900 cal a day in attempts to try and bring my metabloism or whatever it is back to normal. Its a biotch tho. I can do it but I am struggling with it. Will a higher calorie protein shake say 500-600 cal be as good as a meal in attempts to repairing my eating habits. Or does it need to be some kind of food that my stomach can digest. I also work roughly 55-60 hours a week and motivation to train is always there just not the motivation to cook real food.

I am wanting to substitute 2 complete meals with some kind of shake for the calories and protein and other goodies thats needed. so roughly 1200-1400 of my calories would come on liquid blender form.

[ironwill2008]

I am wanting to substitute 2 complete meals with some kind of shake for the calories and protein and other goodies thats needed. so roughly 1200-1400 of my calories would come on liquid blender form.

I'm not exactly certain of your problem. If it's difficulty in simply being able to force down enough calories, then it's any port in a storm; drinking calories is a good way to take in large amounts of macros.

If I've misread your post, come back at me.

[jayluk4600]

Ya sorry that was a bunch of gobly goop..

What I meant was..

In attempts to repair my appetite/metabolism is a liquid meal of 600-700 calories as good as real food of say 600-700 calories. In the end will the body tell the difference. And god now that I think about is this is really a dumb question.

[jayluk4600]

But you answered it IW ty man, too much cell tech tonight and not enough sleep I think is my problem.

[x-trainer ben]

Ok so sadly the thing with this nutritionist I was so excited about didn't work out. Not really gonna go into details but I have a question about calories taken in.

I get the whole eating clean thing and I eat pretty dang healthy and I have also seen it debated that calories are calories no matter what form they come in and I have seen people say OMG you gotta eat clean or the calories are tainted or some crap. But this isn't my question I am just saying I understand all that.

What I wanna know is since I have a hard time feeding myself the way my body needs to be fed.. I am rarely hungry ughh.. So I am in the process of choking food down to hit about 2900 cal a day in attempts to try and bring my metabloism or whatever it is back to normal. Its a biotch tho. I can do it but I am struggling with it. Will a higher calorie protein shake say 500-600 cal be as good as a meal in attempts to repairing my eating habits. Or does it need to be some kind of food that my stomach can digest. I also work roughly 55-60 hours a week and motivation to train is always there just not the motivation to cook real food.

I am wanting to substitute 2 complete meals with some kind of shake for the calories and protein and other goodies thats needed. so roughly 1200-1400 of my calories would come on liquid blender form.

I too suffer from "undereating syndrome" so i do what you suggested, 2 bsn strawberry(2-3 scoop) shakes daily in addition to whatever food i can slam down. My strength is as high as it has ever been while following this unconventional eating plan. It is hard to eat well when your so dam busy.

[induced_drag]

Sorry to hear that it did not work out.

BUT.....dont worry...there is lots of help on this forum.

My first advice....drop this idea that you have to "eat clean". For general health, yes it is advisable for the majority of your foods to come from whole, unprocessed sources....but in the end...macros are macros.

I recently cut for 12 weeks and during that process I ate things like icecream and even pizza. True I did not eat these daily...but if I could make it fit, I ate it.

As for the eating, you just need to make a menu of staples you can turn to and have readily available. When I am working in the field, I pack 3 meals with me. Two snacks and Lunch.

I make giant batches of stuff and weigh it before and after to portion. I will divide and freeze what I wont use in a few days.

Find meals that are easy to make, easy to eat, and easy to track. For me one is chili (just 93/7 ground beef and tomato sauce +spices). Depending on my desired carb level I add short grain brown rice in varying amounts. ( I always keep 3 cups of rice cooked ahead of time on hand). If I am needing more fat in that meal, I just add some oil in and stir it up.

Next tip....I rely on whey do get a lot of my protein. I usually use them as snacks and eat either some peanuts with it or string cheese (easy 1oz portions). If you need carbs in that meal, just add some ground oats. (preground ahead of time in a food processor or coffee grinder).

Hitting your macros becomes easy after a while....I would share more but I am getting the evil eye from my wife about being on here too much!

Good luck

[ironwill2008]

Ya sorry that was a bunch of gobly goop..

What I meant was..

In attempts to repair my appetite/metabolism is a liquid meal of 600-700 calories as good as real food of say 600-700 calories. In the end will the body tell the difference. And god now that I think about is this is really a dumb question.

From a body composition standpoint, the body only sees protein, carbs, and fat, regardless of their source, and it will then break them down and use them as necessary.

Looking at the same calorie intake from a health standpoint is a different matter. Real food is going to have a better spectrum of vitamins, minerals, and other micronutrients not to be found in supplemental form. Think; steak sandwich and a side salad as compared to a "gainer" shake, and you'll get the idea.

That said, you could put together your own medium/high calorie liquid meal by using whole milk, a couple of scoops of good-quality whey protein, a couple tablespoons of peanut butter, and some oats.

[ironwill2008]

My first advice....drop this idea that you have to "eat clean". For general health, yes it is advisable for the majority of your foods to come from whole, unprocessed sources....but in the end...macros are macros.

I recently cut for 12 weeks and during that process I ate things like icecream and even pizza. True I did not eat these daily...but if I could make it fit, I ate it.

^^^^THIS.

This is a concept that flies right over most people's heads like a 747 taking off. It's entirely valid. If you hate your food, you're doing it wrong.

[Iceman1800]

Take a road trip down to Clawson next week. We can get you fixed up and I'll let you load some of my atlas stones

[induced_drag]

Just saw your other post....here is one of my Post Workout Meals. High carb and was a little behind on protein so that explains the 67g. (I usually keep it around 45) It tastes awesome and the ground oatmeal boosts up the carbs pretty well.

First col is cals 878
second is carbs 146
fats are 9
pro is 67

You can go with whole milk or cram to up fats...even swap out for real icecream.

I can and do suck this down in about 5 minutes and love every minute of it. The protein that I use is ON strawberry banana flavor not the vanilla listed....makes it taste even better.

[jayluk4600]

Just saw your other post....here is one of my Post Workout Meals. High carb and was a little behind on protein so that explains the 67g. (I usually keep it around 45) It tastes awesome and the ground oatmeal boosts up the carbs pretty well.

First col is cals 878
second is carbs 146
fats are 9
pro is 67

You can go with whole milk or cram to up fats...even swap out for real icecream.

I can and do suck this down in about 5 minutes and love every minute of it. The protein that I use is ON strawberry banana flavor not the vanilla listed....makes it taste even better.

I can do that, simple but tasty

thank you

[jayluk4600]

Take a road trip down to Clawson next week. We can get you fixed up and I'll let you load some of my atlas stones

Haha I am not sure what an atlas stone is but sounds heavy

[Rdez]

Ok so sadly the thing with this nutritionist I was so excited about didn't work out. Not really gonna go into details but I have a question about calories taken in.

I get the whole eating clean thing and I eat pretty dang healthy and I have also seen it debated that calories are calories no matter what form they come in and I have seen people say OMG you gotta eat clean or the calories are tainted or some crap. But this isn't my question I am just saying I understand all that.

What I wanna know is since I have a hard time feeding myself the way my body needs to be fed.. I am rarely hungry ughh.. So I am in the process of choking food down to hit about 2900 cal a day in attempts to try and bring my metabloism or whatever it is back to normal. Its a biotch tho. I can do it but I am struggling with it. Will a higher calorie protein shake say 500-600 cal be as good as a meal in attempts to repairing my eating habits. Or does it need to be some kind of food that my stomach can digest. I also work roughly 55-60 hours a week and motivation to train is always there just not the motivation to cook real food.

I am wanting to substitute 2 complete meals with some kind of shake for the calories and protein and other goodies thats needed. so roughly 1200-1400 of my calories would come on liquid blender form.

I'm like half your size and I have trouble choking down enough calories. I had 2700 yesterday and felt like a stuffed pig!

One hint if you're not already using it - Olive Oil is your friend for healthy fats. I tablespoon = 120 easy calories.

Ground oats, like was suggested for that shake, also your friend.




Good luck in your goals.

[Brackneyc]

I get the whole eating clean thing and I eat pretty dang healthy and I have also seen it debated that calories are calories no matter what form they come in and I have seen people say OMG you gotta eat clean or the calories are tainted or some crap. But this isn't my question I am just saying I understand all that.

You know (on some level) my struggles with food, metabolism and the like. But, one thing I know for sure is how to drop weight. Now, if you want to simply drop weight, and you don't care what "type" of weight (fat or muscle), it does not matter one bit the "type" of calories you take in...be them in the form of fast food, or broccoli. A deficit will cause a loss, and a surplus will cause weight gain. There is no scientific rebuttal for this, as long as the diet is sustained over time, and the person is in good health atm.

But, I believe the type of weight you lose/gain in a deficit/surplus "can" be affected by the type of food you eat, and this is the issue for most of us.

For those of us (talking about me only right now) in less than stellar health (I am diabetic), the "type" of calories we eat, whether in a deficit, surplus or maintenance.... makes a hell of a difference. So much so that too many carbs for example can actually kill me over a period of time.

I never once thought that lifting the weights would be the easy part. Man was I wrong.

[*STEVE*]

Real food is always better than liquid food although shakes do have there place. I use both to meet my macros and shakes are an easy "on the go" meal while working or when out and about ...

Im also not a believer in the "calories are calories as long as you meet your daily req." line of thought that some folks preach. Also not a fan of using ice cream , pizza or crap food as long as they "fit" into your amounts ... for a cheat meal or cheat day theres no issue ( I usually eat an entire large pizza once a week as my cheat meal while cutting ) but for daily amount totals its usually fail while cutting or trying to build n maintain muscle.


inb4 nutrition/calorie is a calorie nazis come into the thread and flame / argue

[induced_drag]

.....Also not a fan of using ice cream , pizza or crap food as long as they "fit" into your amounts .....

On a quick thought.....I dont think icecream is really all that "bad". Ok there is some sugar..but other then that.... Whole milk, cream....things guys use all the time to hit macros. (I'm talking good icecream not stuff loaded with junk). I am not saying base your diet off it....but I dont think it is all that "junky".

I really dont get why people think pizza is bad. Is it the crust people feel is bad? I mean what is in NY style pizza....Dough: flour,water yeast salt. Sauce:tomato sauce and Cheese. Does not sound all that bad to me. If I can make it fit my macros I will always take the opportunity to indulge. Not always easy when cutting, but on a "normal" diet, it is pretty easy to fit in.

****sorry Steve could not help it! **********

[Rdez]

On a quick thought.....I dont think icecream is really all that "bad". Ok there is some sugar..but other then that.... Whole milk, cream....things guys use all the time to hit macros. (I'm talking good icecream not stuff loaded with junk). I am not saying base your diet off it....but I dont think it is all that "junky".

I really dont get why people think pizza is bad. Is it the crust people feel is bad? I mean what is in NY style pizza....Dough: flour,water yeast salt. Sauce:tomato sauce and Cheese. Does not sound all that bad to me. If I can make it fit my macros I will always take the opportunity to indulge. Not always easy when cutting, but on a "normal" diet, it is pretty easy to fit in.

****sorry Steve could not help it! **********

For people trying to watch their blood sugar and not have diabetic problems, pizza can be an issue.

That might be part of the bad rap.

Glycemic Index Discrepancies

The frustrating thing about the published research is that there are many conflicting findings. Although we've discussed the importance of consuming low GI foods, the most recent study showed no difference in athletic performance when athlete's consumed foods with varying GI's. A study involving pizza showed a similar GI to glucose, except that blood sugar levels were elevated for up to nine hours after the meal, compared to two hours for glucose.

link

It's an older study cited in one article that I found.

[*STEVE*]

On a quick thought.....I dont think icecream is really all that "bad". Ok there is some sugar..but other then that.... Whole milk, cream....things guys use all the time to hit macros. (I'm talking good icecream not stuff loaded with junk). I am not saying base your diet off it....but I dont think it is all that "junky".

No , its junky

I really dont get why people think pizza is bad. Is it the crust people feel is bad? I mean what is in NY style pizza....Dough: flour,water yeast salt. Sauce:tomato sauce and Cheese. Does not sound all that bad to me. If I can make it fit my macros I will always take the opportunity to indulge. Not always easy when cutting, but on a "normal" diet, it is pretty easy to fit in.

If the macro breakdown of pizza is in your macros it just means your macros are wacked.

People think like that and those are the peeps that usually arent or say they cant get into single didgit bf cause its to "hard" ...

****sorry Steve could not help it! **********

no worries , this is just my opinion ,to each their own ...

[ironwill2008]

Real food is always better than liquid food although shakes do have there place. I use both to meet my macros and shakes are an easy "on the go" meal while working or when out and about ...

Absolutely agree.

Shakes have value for their convenience as well as their ability to help those who have trouble eating their daily requirement with only food. IMO, as long as they're look upon as a "supplement" to regular food, then they're good to go. I always try to look at this from a micro nutrient standpoint as well as a macro issue.

Im also not a believer in the "calories are calories as long as you meet your daily req." line of thought that some folks preach. Also not a fan of using ice cream , pizza or crap food as long as they "fit" into your amounts ... for a cheat meal or cheat day theres no issue ( I usually eat an entire large pizza once a week as my cheat meal while cutting ) but for daily amount totals its usually fail while cutting or trying to build n maintain muscle.

I think the general misconception of the "clean vs dirty" debate happens when noobs get the idea that it's an 'either-or' situation. This also has to be tempered with tailoring the specific nutrition advice to the specific individual. IMO, it's a double -edged sword to tell a noob who's been struggling all his/her life with being overweight that he/she can go ahead and eat "junk" food, when in reality what will probably happen is that the noob will then continue on as he/she has been eating, since it's "okay."

Conversely, trying to tell a stone-cold noob that they must throw out all their old eating habits overnight, and never eat anything they enjoy as a 'treat' can backfire as well.

This is a difficult subject, and it's made more so by the ocean of nutritional and basic health BS and misinformation that the public is exposed to on a daily basis by the lay media. People come into this forum with so many BS preconceptions of what they need to eat/do in order to get "in shape" that it's hard to get them to be able to see the forest for the trees. The guys who have been living/doing it for a long time have little/no problem with balancing their macro intake with their specific goal (a 'cheat' meal/day is a perfect example of how to do this). Trying to explain how to get to that point to a noob is another matter altogether. The best any of us here can do is to show them the facts, and a way to figure their next step, and then it's up to them to make decisions from that point. My 2c, anyway.

[Brackneyc]

Conversely, trying to tell a stone-cold noob that they must throw out all their old eating habits overnight...

For me, this was the ONLY way I could jumpstart my program. Heck, even now, I can really only eat the "wrong" food on days where that was the plan (cheat meal). Otherwise, moderation is not something I can really do...yet. I am slowly turning the page on this, but I maintain that I am but one cheeseburger away from a relapse. Twice prior to my last 90lb drop, I had dropped 50lbs, and gained it all back...both times....plus added weight.

I absolutely believe that for some people, the first hit must be hard, and it must be felt. Easing your way into a new diet would never work for me. Mentally, I just could not (or now I would say..."would not") do it. I tried many times, and failed that many times.

[ironwill2008]

For me, this was the ONLY way I could jumpstart my program. Heck, even now, I can really only eat the "wrong" food on days where that was the plan (cheat meal). Otherwise, moderation is not something I can really do...yet. I am slowly turning the page on this, but I maintain that I am but one cheeseburger away from a relapse. Twice prior to my last 90lb drop, I had dropped 50lbs, and gained it all back...both times....plus added weight.

I absolutely believe that for some people, the first hit must be hard, and it must be felt. Easing your way into a new diet would never work for me. Mentally, I just could not (or now I would say..."would not") do it. I tried many times, and failed that many times.

Your situation is a good example of at least part of the point I was attempting to make. The basics of fat loss (eat at a calorie deficit) and muscle gain (eat at a surplus) are both bracketed by the same factors--specific daily amounts of protein/carbs/fats. How we best are able to apply those basics are going to be left up to each of us.

[induced_drag]

....



If the macro breakdown of pizza is in your macros it just means your macros are wacked.

......

I think there can be a balance for everything. I am not trying to get super lean at the moment. My primary goal is gain muscle mass and stay as close to 10% as I can in the process.

I am on a caloric surplus diet. Current split is 42%carbs 27%fat and 31%pro to be exact I am also carb cycling. I tried it for the first time with my cut diet, and LOVED the concept. I brought it over to my surplus diet because I like the cyclical eating. It really breaks up the monotony of a never changing diet. I also like the concept of eating more on workout days.

My diet right now averages 3250cal/day....but on my "High" carb days (2/week) I am at almost 3700 cals with 430g of carbs 255pro and 102fat.

For me two or three slices and yes...a small coke (when you need some extra carbs) works great for my second meal following up my post WO shake.

Here is my log from the end of the day on fri last week. I got to workout early and the pizza fit in great...also helped me hit my fat without having to add a bunch of oil or eat a ton more nuts...(Usually eating at least 2oz of nuts daily)

[*STEVE*]

^^^

LOL and pizza and a coke

Still looks wacked to me but thats why I said ...

no worries , this is just my opinion ,to each their own

this ^

[induced_drag]

LOL and pizza and a coke

Still looks wacked to me but thats why I said ...

^

No worries.....I appreciate the exchange. I want to be clear that I dont eat like this daily.....Looking back, I have probably had 3 or 4 cokes in the last 4 months. (found these nice little 90 cal cans).

You level of leanness is admirable. I have yet to achieve that low of a level of body fat percentage. Right now that is not my goal though....I have only recently returned to the gym (4months now) and after first dropping about 20lbs of fat and getting back to 10%, my main goal is purely getting bigger and stronger. (while keeping fat gain as small as I can). As soon as I cant see abs any more....I am backing down.

You are right....if I were cutting...there would probably be much less room in my diet for these things.... But when I am pushing 400+g of carbs I think it is OK to have a little here and there.

BTW....On my cut diet I did eat icecream at least two days a week That is why I love carb cycling...Kept me sane.

[paqua17]

So I am in the process of choking food down to hit about 2900 cal a day in attempts to try and bring my metabloism or whatever it is back to normal.

Noob question: why would eating only 2900 calories/day bring your metabolism back to normal? @ 265 lbs on the surface you appear to be significantly undereating (or is this what you are aiming for?)

[Dsum74]

Noob question: why would eating only 2900 calories/day bring your metabolism back to normal? @ 265 lbs on the surface you appear to be significantly undereating (or is this what you are aiming for?)

I agree I'm about the same ht and 252 wt and I have been eating 6200 cal a day for a while this offseason and I still feel hungry ... Are you trying to drop wt