Why you should stop taking your multivitamin!

[LiftHeavy85]

I'll believe op when people in perfect health start dropping like flies.

[illriginalized]

I'm negging the OP... after reading:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21586288

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21659881

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21625172

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21561879

[AlwaysTryin]

Repped.

Lol this made me laugh, so deep in the red and "repping".

[ElMariachi]

Not at all bro. You didn't read my substantiation, now did you?

My whole point is that most multivitamins are unhealthy because they exceed the amount of micronutrients you need without being detrimental. Furthermore, there are no established benefits of taking a multivitamin at all.

Just read the research I provided in the first posts

Must multivitamins contain well below recommended RDA levels for micronutrients and RDA is simply the bare minimum required to ensure against deficiency for those in the overall population....ie............not athletes or highly active individuals.



So unless you're popping 50 tablets a day...........rest easy.

[ElMariachi]

The upper limit for folic acid is 1000 mcg and the RDA is 400 mcg. I just looked at the package for "Centrum multivitamins" and they contain 400 mcg of folic acid.

http://www.centrum.com/OurProducts/Centrum.aspx

In other words, if you were to meet the RDA for folic acid in your diet and took a supplement on top of that you would still be 200 mcg short of exceeding the upper limit.

It seems people are forgetting that folic acid is A WATER-SOLUBLE vitamin, if you take an excess of it, worst thing that will happen is that you'll have some minor troubles on the can, this fearmongering stuff has gotten out of hand. When most of the population isn't even reaching the bare minimum RDA for folic acid, perhaps it might lead one to think that we have worse problems to worry about?




This reminds me of the hype back in the day when they claimed that people shouldn't supplement with Vitamin D because we got enough from the sun and too much could eventually kill you and now they've basically reversed field and said....oh ****, actually people need to TRIPLE their intake of Vitamin D, yes the same fat-soluble vitamin we said would kill you. Or how fish-oil was very harmful for you...........until the pharmaceutical industry started selling it, and now its hunky-dory.


Give me a break.


Eat a sensible healthy diet, take a basic multi, ensure you're getting enough minerals and worry about catching cancer from the all the **** they spray into the air, the pesticides on our food and all the random cleaning products we use that **** with our hormonal levels, freaking out about vitamins is just absurd.

[BunkMoreland]

OP hasn't been taking his multi. therefore OP has not had good luck with his goals in 2007. therefore=he mad

[ElMariachi]

CONCLUSIONS:
Our recommendation is that vitamins A, E, D, folic acid, and niacin should be categorized as over-the-counter medications. Labeling of vitamins, especially those intended for children and other vulnerable groups, should include information on possible toxicities, dosing, recommended upper intake limits, and concurrent use with other products. Vitamin A should be excluded from multivitamin supplements and food fortificants.
.

LULZ. To save us from ourselves, we should make vitamins available by prescription only, us idiot peons have no clue as to what we are doing.

[peteyboy1015]

LULZ. To save us from ourselves, we should make vitamins available by prescription only, us idiot peons have no clue as to what we are doing.

Yea I reread the study I posted...makes sense for those crazy enough to overdose on certain vitamins, but as for the rest of this population, it really shouldn't be that much of a concern.

[desslok]

LULZ. To save us from ourselves, we should make vitamins available by prescription only, us idiot peons have no clue as to what we are doing.

Weren't some politicians trying to do that last year? Id google the proposition but too lazy on my phone.

[ElMariachi]

Yea I reread the study I posted...makes sense for those crazy enough to overdose on certain vitamins, but as for the rest of this population, it really shouldn't be that much of a concern.

Too OD on vitamins, you need to be taking EXTREME amounts for long periods of time or be severely impaired in terms of immune health, prone to seizures, some sort of special population segment.

For Vitamin A, you need to consistently take daily doses of over 90,000 IU's for a period of months to see major overdose symptoms. Accutane, an acne-drug intended for severe cystic acne cases is equivalent to roughly 250,000 IU's of Vitamin A a day. For Vitamin E and D, the doses are also fairly high.


For folic acid, someone needs to CONSISTENTLY take over 1000mcg a day before overdose symptoms such as rash, migraines, nausea/diarrhea will present themselves. One of the true dangers of excess folic acid intake is masking deficiencies of Vitamin B12 and potentially leading to zinc deficiency in the body.


But once again, you have to be extremely determined to consistently reach these levels of intake, day in and day out, also keep in mind that just because the label on the vitamin bottle says 400-800mcg, that doesn't mean you're going to be absorbing exactly that, also keep in mind that folic acid is water-soluble so a few days with regular or sub-optimal intake will basically reverse most of the potential damage done.



One of the biggest dangers of excess intake of any vitamin or mineral is that you will create deficiencies in other areas which over time can lead to health problems. Excess intake of phosphorus will lead to a calcium deficiency eventually which is one reason I suspect that the US and Norway have such outrageously high levels of osteoporosis even though we consume more dairy products per capita than anyone else in the world.


The bottomline, eat a solid diet, take a basic multi, and you shouldn't have any problems, its the people who begin to mix and match various vitamins, taking high doses of one or another that will cause problems for themselves down the road.


The only exceptions to this I would say are Vitamin D, as its clear that we need higher levels of this vitamin than found in basically every multi out there....and magnesium because generally multivitamins contain woefully inadequate amounts of this very important and crucial mineral that we historically have obtained from various vegetables.

[ElMariachi]

Weren't some politicians trying to do that last year? Id google the proposition but too lazy on my phone.

They still are. In certain places around the world, you can't even go out and buy Vitamin C without an actual doctor's prescription. I'd much rather take my chances and have the freedom to determine my own health, wouldn't you?

[desslok]

I'd much rather take my chances and have the freedom to determine my own health, wouldn't you?

Absolutely, which is why I emailed my congressman about this back then. Sounds like the propaganda has gotten to OP though.

http://www.lef.org/featured-articles...ct-of-2010.htm

[jcolson]

Absolutely, which is why I emailed my congressman about this back then. Sounds like the propaganda has gotten to OP though.

http://www.lef.org/featured-articles...ct-of-2010.htm

Maybe the OP stands to make money if it is banned for the general public. I just don't see why he is so determined.

[pter1991]

Just been thinking about starting to take a MV, read the first page and the last two, not quite sure what direction to take...should I or shouldn't I? The main problem that I can determine is an excess of an acid, which is water soluble so would just get excreted, but the benefits are a good immune system and general good health through the vitamins?

Right or wrong? Anyone care to say yay or nay who knows their stuff?

[illriginalized]

Just been thinking about starting to take a MV, read the first page and the last two, not quite sure what direction to take...should I or shouldn't I? The main problem that I can determine is an excess of an acid, which is water soluble so would just get excreted, but the benefits are a good immune system and general good health through the vitamins?

Right or wrong? Anyone care to say yay or nay who knows their stuff?

Bro.. just go buy Animal Pak and call it a day. OP should have done a bit more research on said claims.

[tagun]

I'm negging the OP... after reading:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21586288

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21659881

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21625172

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21561879

Thank you. That's all I wanted to see, some studies contradicting the previous.

See, it wasn't that bad. Instead of name calling you can prove your point by staying calm and simply pointing towards the evidence.

[VitaminVendetta]

The particular study you provided states that ingesting all those vitamins/minerals combined posed no threat, yet it did when they excluded selenium and vitamin C from the mix. My multi contains those two so THIS PARTICULAR study is of no concern to me.

I think you misunderstood. Beta-carotene given either singly or in combination with other AO significantly increased mortality. Vitamin C and selenium haven't demonstrated to decrease mortality (although they warrant further study).

[VitaminVendetta]

Thank you. That's all I wanted to see, some studies contradicting the previous.

See, it wasn't that bad. Instead of name calling you can prove your point by staying calm and simply pointing towards the evidence.

Sorry, but this is not 'evidence' at all. The guy you quoted just c/p a post from BenW22 earlier in this thread. While the first study is interesting, the others are totally irrelevant. Here's my response to him. :

1)
I've read the FT of the first study and the one of the explanations of the reduced risk of colorectal cancer was because the highest quintile had a total intake of 660 mcg a day. This is less than Cole et al., JAMA, 2007 (1000 mcg supplemental folic acid/day) who showed an increased risk of colorectal neoplasia.

Also check this:

However, intake levels among those in the highest quintile approached those of participants in 2 parallel Norwegian trials in which treatment groups received 800
*g/d folic acid plus 0.4 mg/d vitamin B12 ; after 7 years of treatment and 2 years of follow-up, no evidence of increased incidence of colorectal cancer in the folic acid treatment group was found, although higher rates of overall cancer incidence and mortality were observed.
38

Nice cherry-picking.

2) You're second study is irrelevant because the (well known) effects of folic acid on spina bifida have nothing to do with cancer. Also the authors conclude folic acid supplementation is NOT needed because of the folic acid fortification of grains. You're a worthless Pubmed-ninja, just like WonderPug.

3-4) LOL you just typed folic acid and cancer into Pubmed and c/p the most recent studies. One irrelevant mouse study and another worthless nutrigenetic study. You= FAIL.

[VitaminVendetta]

El Mariachi, you're a clear example of the Dunnig-Kruger effect. I'm not even going to waste my time on an ignorant fool who didn't even take the time to read the evidence I presented. Have a nice day.

[tagun]

Okay that's fair. However I don't even fret over folic acid as I take a multi that has only 100 mcg of it and I don't eat green leafy veggies or fortified foods. So I strongly doubt I ingest more than 400 mcg of folic acid a day, if even that.

As for ß-carotene I admit I misinterpreted the study. However I again doubt it is of concern TO ME PARTICULARLY, as I never get more than around 100-150% of vitamin A in my diet (of which more than 95% is in ß-carotene form and only a slight percentage in retinol) and my multi contains only 75% of RDA for ß-carotene in total. So I'm basically ingesting minuscule amounts of this antioxidant through supplementation and practically not exceeding the recommended daily allowance through food.

I am, however, not saying that supplementing with 20000 IU of ß-carotene or/and 3000 IU of retinol is safe. Only an idiot would think that, as it was proven years ago that even 1200 IU of retinol is toxic when taken for years non-stop.

[Christiffer]

Cliffs? Due to funds I haven't been taking my multi in quite some time... When my urine resembles that of mountain dew I know i took my multi! ps. But seriously, cliffs?

[tagun]

Cliffs? Due to funds I haven't been taking my multi in quite some time... When my urine resembles that of mountain dew I know i took my multi! ps. But seriously, cliffs?

- ODing on multi's might not be such a great idea (who would have thought, right?)
- folic acid is especially of concern, causing cancer in high quantities, as is vitamin A (even mild quantities of retinol and higher quantities of ß-carotene)
- everyone except a few individuals is bashing OP for being a *******
- OP is a semi-troll with a vendetta towards multivitamins, but does point out some interesting facts
- ????????
- profit

[VitaminVendetta]

Great cliffs! I'd like to add a couple of things, though. (bolded)

- ODing on multi's might not be such a great idea (who would have thought, right?)
- folic acid is especially of concern, causing cancer in high quantities*, as is vitamin A (even mild quantities of retinol and higher quantities of ß-carotene), as is (high dosed) vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol), which has demonstrated to increase mortality)
- everyone except a few individuals is bashing OP for being a *******
- OP is a semi-troll with a vendetta towards multivitamins, but does point out some interesting facts
- ????????
- profit

* If you use a supplement, chances are above 50% you'll exceed the upper limit of folate . Even worse, levels below the UL have been shown to increase cancer risk and mortality

[VincentiT]

Great cliffs! I'd like to add a couple of things, though. (bolded)

So, you agree that you're a semi-troll and a *******? Well, that settles it.

[HunterCML]

OP is deep in red as expected.







Guys, I heard like.. at least 99% of people who drink water will die at some point.. maybe we should stop dri...


derp

[peteyboy1015]

http://www.aor.ca/assets/Research/pd...5_article1.pdf

Here's an interesting read on multivitamins from the company AOR, which is known to make the best multivitamins, as far as dosages and the different forms of multivitamins (too bad their multivitamin cost like $45.99 on BB.com...).

[tagun]

http://www.aor.ca/assets/Research/pd...5_article1.pdf

Here's an interesting read on multivitamins from the company AOR, which is known to make the best multivitamins, as far as dosages and the different forms of multivitamins (too bad their multivitamin cost like $45.99 on BB.com...).

WOW great find!

There's obviously some truth to what the OP is claiming. I'll definitely be more careful in selecting my next multi.

[VitaminVendetta]

So, you agree that you're a semi-troll and a *******? Well, that settles it.

You can call me anything you want. I don't give a ****, but the ad hominems won't change a damn thing about the validity of the evidence I presented so far.

If it makes you feel better calling me bad names, instead of taking an objective look at the evidence I presented so far it only confirms your indoctrinated mind set.
This thread is intended for people willing to open their mind by actually reading the studies I referenced.
I don't want anyone to just take my word for it. Research things for yourself, analyze the information and do (or don't do) something with it. That's all I'm asking.

Ps. I agree that AOR generally is one of the few stand-up supplement companies, but I'd still be wary about taking Ortho-Core, because of the high amount of folic acid (800 mcg).

[otterakl]

You can call me anything you want. I don't give a ****, but the ad hominems won't change a damn thing about the validity of the evidence I presented so far.

If it makes you feel better calling me bad names, instead of taking an objective look at the evidence I presented so far it only confirms your indoctrinated mind set.
This thread is intended for people willing to open their mind by actually reading the studies I referenced.
I don't want anyone to just take my word for it. Research things for yourself, analyze the information and do (or don't do) something with it. That's all I'm asking.

Ps. I agree that AOR generally is one of the few stand-up supplement companies, but I'd still be wary about taking Ortho-Core, because of the high amount of folic acid (800 mcg).

Nobody cares what you think. You're a hypocrite. You blast everyone for calling you names, yet the minute WonderPug began debating you, you called him a "pseudoscientific hero in his own mind" even though you have no idea of his knowledge or credentials.

Seriously, pls go. If the constant negging and insults haven't helped you figure it out, I will: NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY OR ENJOYS YOUR PRESENCE IN THIS FORUM.

[VitaminVendetta]

Nobody cares what you think. You're a hypocrite. You blast everyone for calling you names, yet the minute WonderPug began debating you, you called him a "pseudoscientific hero in his own mind" even though you have no idea of his knowledge or credentials.

Seriously, pls go. If the constant negging and insults haven't helped you figure it out, I will: NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY OR ENJOYS YOUR PRESENCE IN THIS FORUM.

WonderPug tried to derail this thread and when he finally came up with a reference it turned out to be an irrelevant study out of 1999.
I don't know what your definition of 'pseudoscience' is, but cherry-picking irrelevant papers to support your own believes comes damn close IMO. If you haven't read the entire discussion you shouldn't judge too quickly.