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  1. #1
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    All Pro Intermediate programs 1-4

    Intermediate 1
    Work out 1
    squats, bench press and bent over rows for a total of 4 sets.
    set 1 @ 25% of work set weight for 10 reps. Set 2 @ 50% of work set weight for 10 reps.
    set 3 @ 100% for 5 reps. set 4 add the weight of set 1 and set 2 together and do 10 reps with it. Any assistance work you do 1 set of 8 reps then reduce the weight by

    half and do 1 set of 20 reps. The assistance work can be ANYTHING that you think you need. I always include stiff leg dead lifts, shoulder press and curls.
    Work out 2
    Use the exact same weight that you used for work out 1 BUT do 3 sets of 5 instead of 1 set of 5 and don't do the 10 rep set. For the assistance work use the same

    weight and go for 12 reps. Anytime that you can complete all of the assigned reps add 10 pounds for the next week. It's a big jump but more on this in a moment.

    Continue to push it for 3 weeks. Week 4 is a deload week. On week 4 reduce the work set weight to 75% of what you've been using and do just 1 work set. No 10 rep

    set and no assistance work. To start the next cycle if you were failing to complete every set of a given exercise then you reduce the weight by 30 pounds for week 1

    for work out 2 only. You should never be failing to complete the reps on work out 1. If you're an athlete then power cleans are the first exercise of every work out. I set

    them up with 4 sets. 25%/50%/75%/100% for 3 reps on work out 1, then use the same weight for work out 2 and push it for 5 reps.
    What I've just laid out is Soviet dual factor, mixed qualities training. It's confusing to read and that's why I've been avoiding writing it up.
    A quick example of the 3 core exercises.
    Work out 1
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 200 pounds x 5, 150 pounds x 10
    Work out 2
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 200 pounds x 5 x 3
    Deload week
    Work out 1
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 150 pounds x 5
    Work out 2
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 150 pounds x 5
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    Intermediate 2
    All Pro Split
    5 week cycle
    A
    Bench Presses do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Bent-Over Rows do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8
    Overhead Barbell Presses do 2 work sets rep scheme 6-7-8-9-10
    Barbell Curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Tricep press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Hammer grip dumb bell press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Pull down do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12

    B
    Squats do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Leg extensions do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Leg curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Calf Raises do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Seated calf press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Add ab work
    If you get all of the reps on week 5 add 5%
    That should get you started. I would do this A/B/A then B/A/B until you come up to speed. Then try 4 work outs per week. A-B off. A-B off off.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    Intermediate 3

    Recreational lifters and athletes

    Two work outs per week
    Three core lifts. Squat, bench press and rows. The following percentages are based on your current 5 rep maximums for each lift.
    Do two warm up sets for these three lifts. Do the first set at 35% for 15 reps. Do the second set at 65% for 10 reps. Rest one minute between the warm up sets. Rest
    1:30 seconds between the 10 rep work sets. Rest Two minutes between the 5 rep work sets.

    Week one, work out one, 70%, 1x15. Work out two, 75%, 1x15.
    Week two, work out one, 80%, 2x10. Work out two, 85%, 2x10.
    Week three, work out one, 90%, 3x5. Work out two, 95%, 3x5.
    Week four, work out one, 100%, 1x5. Work out two, 105%, 1x5

    Now for the assistance work. No warm ups. One set each to start with.

    Stiff leg dead lift *required*
    Optional, leg curl, leg extension, calve press, dead lift.

    Hammer grip dumb bell incline bench bench press or over head bar bell press *required*
    Optional, tricep press.

    Standing rows *required*
    Optional, bar bell curl, EZ bar curl, dumb bell curl, lateral raises, front raises.

    Pull downs or pull overs. One of them is required. The other is optional. You choose.
    The following percentages are based on your current 10 rep maximums for each assistance lift that you plan to do.
    Week one, work out one, 70%, 1x15. Work out two, 75%, 1x15.
    Week two, work out one, 80%, 1x15. Work out two, 85%, x15.
    Week three, work out one, 90%, 1x10. Work out two, 95%, 1x10.
    Week four, work out one, 100%, 1x10. Work out two, 105%, 1x10
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    Intermediate 4
    Athletic performance and mass and strength gain
    Two work outs per week. The first work out is based on Bill Starr's infamous 636 NFL program.
    The heart and soul of this program is 3 sets of 3 followed by 3 sets of 6. It starts with 3, 6 rep warm up sets, hence the name 636.
    The weight does not change for 3 weeks. Week 4 is a deload week. This set up slowly grinds you into powder!
    Three core lifts. Squat, bench press and rows.
    Set 1 at 25% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    Set 2 at 50% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    Set 3 at 75% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    Sets 4-5-6 at 100% of your 5 rep max for 3 reps.
    Sets 7-8-9 at 90% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    On week four do just the first 3 sets! That's your deload. DO IT!
    Work out 2
    Week one. 75%, 1x15
    Week two 85%, 2x10
    Week three 95%, 3x5
    Week four, 105%, 1x5
    All assistance work goes on work out two. Percentages are based on your current 10 rep max.
    Week 1 75% 1x15
    Week 2 85% 1x15
    Week 3 95% 1x10
    Week 4 105% 1x10

    So what does an athlete do on Wednesday?
    Stretch, cardio, mobility, speed!
    If you're a recreational lifter you only need the first 2, stretching and cardio.
    If you're an athlete there are scores of mobility drills to choose from. You will also need dynamic effort, speed. Speed x strength = power.
    Power cleans and hang cleans set up on a 5 sets of 3 format working in 20% increments. Set one at 20%, set 2 at 40%, set 3 at 60%, set 4 at 80% set 5 at your top

    weight. This is all about speed and power. So if your rep speed drops noticeably or your form degrades, terminate the set. Rep speed is more important than the

    weight on the bar. You aren't training for the olympics! These will produce power and improve mobility. Also true dynamic effort work. That's done with squats,

    bench press and dead lift by loading 50% of your 1 rep maximum on the bar and attaching chains to each side of the bar. When you add up all of the weight it should

    be between 90% and 100% percent of your 1 rep max. Do at least 5 sets of 3 reps lifting the weight as fast as possible. When speed slows down noticeably or form breaks down, terminate the set.

    http://www.naturalphysiques.com/18/o...max-calculator
    Use the second estimate.
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  2. #2
    Registered User Akos1712's Avatar
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    Smile

    first
    bookmarked .... will use when I finish beginner program and become an intermediate lifter !
    can you explain a little bit about the different between each of them.
    Last edited by Akos1712; 05-30-2011 at 12:17 PM.
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  3. #3
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    D'oh!

    Time to get busy on my lifts so I can actually use these! :P
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    -----> Come join me in my log on bb.com!: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150246533

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  4. #4
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    all pro is offline
    Originally Posted by Akos1712 View Post
    first
    bookmarked .... will use when I finish beginner program and become an intermediate lifter !
    can you explain a little bit about the different between each of them.
    The first one is the simplest. You're testing for a 1x5 rep max weight on your first work out. On the second work out you're trying to get 3x5 with that weight. It's a very steady pounding. On week 4 you deload. It's the same type of set up for the assistance work except that it's in the 8-10 rep range. When you get tired of beating yourself up you change programs.
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  5. #5
    ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐ Deviant Motive's Avatar
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    *waves*

    Now I can ask questions in this thread instead of PMing the sh*t out of all pro.

    I busted out the Intermediate 3 for Recreational lifters about an hour 1/2 ago. I like this one since its only two days per week. I will need to do ab work on my off days. Its pushing the time table a little too long for me. I still had plenty of energy to do them, just ran out of time.

    I did the Intermediate 2 (Split) for 5 weeks and really liked that one also. Thing is, its 4 days a week, which I don't mind but sometimes it gets old working out that many days a week.

    I see I now have several I can do when I get bored.

    Thanks all pro.
    ~Moosifee~

    "Yes, if you squat wrong it f**ks things up. If you squat correctly, those same f***ed-up things will unf**k themselves." -- Mark Rippetoe





    (Cycle 3 : all pro's 636)
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  6. #6
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    all pro is offline
    Originally Posted by Deviant Motive View Post
    *waves*

    Now I can ask questions in this thread instead of PMing the sh*t out of all pro.

    I busted out the Intermediate 3 for Recreational lifters about an hour 1/2 ago. I like this one since its only two days per week. I will need to do ab work on my off days. Its pushing the time table a little too long for me. I still had plenty of energy to do them, just ran out of time.

    I did the Intermediate 2 (Split) for 5 weeks and really liked that one also. Thing is, its 4 days a week, which I don't mind but sometimes it gets old working out that many days a week.

    I see I now have several I can do when I get bored.

    Thanks all pro.
    Have fun. This should keep even weight lifters that suffer from ADD satisfied .......for a while.
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  7. #7
    Registered User muscleman17's Avatar
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    muscleman17 is offline
    Originally Posted by Deviant Motive View Post
    *waves*

    Now I can ask questions in this thread instead of PMing the sh*t out of all pro.

    I busted out the Intermediate 3 for Recreational lifters about an hour 1/2 ago. I like this one since its only two days per week. I will need to do ab work on my off days. Its pushing the time table a little too long for me. I still had plenty of energy to do them, just ran out of time.

    I did the Intermediate 2 (Split) for 5 weeks and really liked that one also. Thing is, its 4 days a week, which I don't mind but sometimes it gets old working out that many days a week.

    I see I now have several I can do when I get bored.

    Thanks all pro.
    little confusingill have to look at it again or pm all pro. is the first workout a 3x a week program?
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  8. #8
    Registered User muscleman17's Avatar
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    muscleman17 is offline
    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Intermediate 1
    Work out 1
    squats, bench press and bent over rows for a total of 4 sets.
    set 1 @ 25% of work set weight for 10 reps. Set 2 @ 50% of work set weight for 10 reps.
    set 3 @ 100% for 5 reps. set 4 add the weight of set 1 and set 2 together and do 10 reps with it. Any assistance work you do 1 set of 8 reps then reduce the weight by

    half and do 1 set of 20 reps. The assistance work can be ANYTHING that you think you need. I always include stiff leg dead lifts, shoulder press and curls.
    Work out 2
    Use the exact same weight that you used for work out 1 BUT do 3 sets of 5 instead of 1 set of 5 and don't do the 10 rep set. For the assistance work use the same

    weight and go for 12 reps. Anytime that you can complete all of the assigned reps add 10 pounds for the next week. It's a big jump but more on this in a moment.

    Continue to push it for 3 weeks. Week 4 is a deload week. On week 4 reduce the work set weight to 75% of what you've been using and do just 1 work set. No 10 rep

    set and no assistance work. To start the next cycle if you were failing to complete every set of a given exercise then you reduce the weight by 30 pounds for week 1

    for work out 2 only. You should never be failing to complete the reps on work out 1. If you're an athlete then power cleans are the first exercise of every work out. I set

    them up with 4 sets. 25%/50%/75%/100% for 3 reps on work out 1, then use the same weight for work out 2 and push it for 5 reps.
    What I've just laid out is Soviet dual factor, mixed qualities training. It's confusing to read and that's why I've been avoiding writing it up.
    A quick example of the 3 core exercises.
    Work out 1
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 200 pounds x 5, 150 pounds x 10
    Work out 2
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 200 pounds x 5 x 3
    Deload week
    Work out 1
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 150 pounds x 5
    Work out 2
    50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 150 pounds x 5
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    Intermediate 2
    All Pro Split
    5 week cycle
    A
    Bench Presses do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Bent-Over Rows do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8
    Overhead Barbell Presses do 2 work sets rep scheme 6-7-8-9-10
    Barbell Curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Tricep press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Hammer grip dumb bell press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Pull down do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12

    B
    Squats do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Leg extensions do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Leg curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Calf Raises do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Seated calf press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Add ab work
    If you get all of the reps on week 5 add 5%
    That should get you started. I would do this A/B/A then B/A/B until you come up to speed. Then try 4 work outs per week. A-B off. A-B off off.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    Intermediate 3

    Recreational lifters and athletes

    Two work outs per week
    Three core lifts. Squat, bench press and rows. The following percentages are based on your current 5 rep maximums for each lift.
    Do two warm up sets for these three lifts. Do the first set at 35% for 15 reps. Do the second set at 65% for 10 reps. Rest one minute between the warm up sets. Rest
    1:30 seconds between the 10 rep work sets. Rest Two minutes between the 5 rep work sets.

    Week one, work out one, 70%, 1x15. Work out two, 75%, 1x15.
    Week two, work out one, 80%, 2x10. Work out two, 85%, 2x10.
    Week three, work out one, 90%, 3x5. Work out two, 95%, 3x5.
    Week four, work out one, 100%, 1x5. Work out two, 105%, 1x5

    Now for the assistance work. No warm ups. One set each to start with.

    Stiff leg dead lift *required*
    Optional, leg curl, leg extension, calve press, dead lift.

    Hammer grip dumb bell incline bench bench press or over head bar bell press *required*
    Optional, tricep press.

    Standing rows *required*
    Optional, bar bell curl, EZ bar curl, dumb bell curl, lateral raises, front raises.

    Pull downs or pull overs. One of them is required. The other is optional. You choose.
    The following percentages are based on your current 10 rep maximums for each assistance lift that you plan to do.
    Week one, work out one, 70%, 1x15. Work out two, 75%, 1x15.
    Week two, work out one, 80%, 1x15. Work out two, 85%, x15.
    Week three, work out one, 90%, 1x10. Work out two, 95%, 1x10.
    Week four, work out one, 100%, 1x10. Work out two, 105%, 1x10
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    Intermediate 4
    Athletic performance and mass and strength gain
    Two work outs per week. The first work out is based on Bill Starr's infamous 636 NFL program.
    The heart and soul of this program is 3 sets of 3 followed by 3 sets of 6. It starts with 3, 6 rep warm up sets, hence the name 636.
    The weight does not change for 3 weeks. Week 4 is a deload week. This set up slowly grinds you into powder!
    Three core lifts. Squat, bench press and rows.
    Set 1 at 25% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    Set 2 at 50% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    Set 3 at 75% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    Sets 4-5-6 at 100% of your 5 rep max for 3 reps.
    Sets 7-8-9 at 90% of your 5 rep max for 6 reps.
    On week four do just the first 3 sets! That's your deload. DO IT!
    Work out 2
    Week one. 75%, 1x15
    Week two 85%, 2x10
    Week three 95%, 3x5
    Week four, 105%, 1x5
    All assistance work goes on work out two. Percentages are based on your current 10 rep max.
    Week 1 75% 1x15
    Week 2 85% 1x15
    Week 3 95% 1x10
    Week 4 105% 1x10

    So what does an athlete do on Wednesday?
    Stretch, cardio, mobility, speed!
    If you're a recreational lifter you only need the first 2, stretching and cardio.
    If you're an athlete there are scores of mobility drills to choose from. You will also need dynamic effort, speed. Speed x strength = power.
    Power cleans and hang cleans set up on a 5 sets of 3 format working in 20% increments. Set one at 20%, set 2 at 40%, set 3 at 60%, set 4 at 80% set 5 at your top

    weight. This is all about speed and power. So if your rep speed drops noticeably or your form degrades, terminate the set. Rep speed is more important than the

    weight on the bar. You aren't training for the olympics! These will produce power and improve mobility. Also true dynamic effort work. That's done with squats,

    bench press and dead lift by loading 50% of your 1 rep maximum on the bar and attaching chains to each side of the bar. When you add up all of the weight it should

    be between 90% and 100% percent of your 1 rep max. Do at least 5 sets of 3 reps lifting the weight as fast as possible. When speed slows down noticeably or form breaks down, terminate the set.

    http://www.naturalphysiques.com/18/o...max-calculator
    Use the second estimate.
    could anybody possibly make a spread sheet? im kindve retarded whe it comes to understanding words on paper :/
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  9. #9
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    all pro is offline
    Originally Posted by muscleman17 View Post
    little confusingill have to look at it again or pm all pro. is the first workout a 3x a week program?
    Nope. Just twice and if you hit it hard enough you wont want anymore of it.
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Nope. Just twice and if you hit it hard enough you wont want anymore of it.
    oh man well we will see ha i like going 3 times a week. idk we will talk later baout all this and asnwer questions i have to work.
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  11. #11
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    AllPro,

    You see things that say you are intermediate when you can squat X pounds in relation to body weight, etc., or after 2 years, etc. etc.

    For beginners that started with your beginner routine, what is your thought on when it makes sense to do one of the intermediate ones you propose? Would you recommend continuing the beginner routine as long as weight is going up?
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  12. #12
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by emp1acur View Post
    AllPro,

    You see things that say you are intermediate when you can squat X pounds in relation to body weight, etc., or after 2 years, etc. etc.

    For beginners that started with your beginner routine, what is your thought on when it makes sense to do one of the intermediate ones you propose? Would you recommend continuing the beginner routine as long as weight is going up?
    You can push the beginner's program until you stop making progress or you get bored with it. But the typical answer as to when someone is no longer a beginner is when they can squat about double their body weight and bench about one and a half times their body weight for one rep. At that point forward progress tends to be a lot slower but the lifter can handle more volume but also needs more recovery. That's where the balancing act begins.
    Last edited by all pro; 05-30-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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    Are these all programs the same in difficulty? Or is 4 more difficult than 1? Are these all just different intermidiate programs?
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    Originally Posted by ovaltine123 View Post
    Are these all programs the same in difficulty? Or is 4 more difficult than 1? Are these all just different intermidiate programs?
    There pretty much listed by their level of difficulty with number one being the easiest/simplest.
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    how do you know if you're intermidiate or beginner?
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    Originally Posted by ovaltine123 View Post
    how do you know if you're intermidiate or beginner?
    If you have to ask, you're probably a novice.
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    So 2 workouts a week? I think one day I am gonna try that. 3-4 days per week always were better for me, maybe I'll try 2 days a week for a month and see how the gains come.
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    The first one is the simplest. You're testing for a 1x5 rep max weight on your first work out. On the second work out you're trying to get 3x5 with that weight. It's a very steady pounding. On week 4 you deload. It's the same type of set up for the assistance work except that it's in the 8-10 rep range. When you get tired of beating yourself up you change programs.
    ok after reading a few times, i get it now, it is arranged in order from easiest to hardest :P
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    Originally Posted by ovaltine123 View Post
    how do you know if you're intermidiate or beginner?
    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    You can push the beginner's program until you stop making progress or you get bored with it. But the typical answer as to when someone is no longer a beginner is when they can squat about double their body weight and bench about one and a half times their body weight for one rep. At that point forward progress tends to be a lot slower but the lifter can handle more volume but also needs more recovery. That's where the balancing act begins.
    hope this answer your question !
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    Is it okay to do the first program while taking high intensity mma classes on the rest days? or is that overtraining and counter productive? I kinda wanna do this 2 day workout when I start cutting so I can still maintain a good amount of muscle.
    "think of the solution, not the problem"
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    Nice!
    But I will have to wait may be a year or two before I can start this because I am on cycle 1 of beginners program
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    SQ 172.5kg. BP 105kg. DL 200kg. OHP 62.5kg @ 67.3kg

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    I've been doing the Beginner routine for about 6/7 cycles now (I lost count... ) and I've seen very good gains but I was always planning on switching to something else after 5 or 6 cycles.

    Is it okay to switch to one of these routines now? I'm thinking the 636 one looks quite nice, especially since I -do- need to work on my cardio significantly as I can run about 3 steps and need to rest for 2 months after...

    Also bookmarked.
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Intermediate 1
    __________________________________________________ ______________
    Intermediate 2
    All Pro Split
    5 week cycle
    A
    Bench Presses do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Bent-Over Rows do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8
    Overhead Barbell Presses do 2 work sets rep scheme 6-7-8-9-10
    Barbell Curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Tricep press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Hammer grip dumb bell press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Pull down do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12

    B
    Squats do 4 work sets rep scheme 4-5-6-7-8 Do 2 warm up sets. 25% of the work set weight for 15 reps and 50% of the work set weight for 10 reps.
    Leg extensions do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Leg curls do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-9-10-11-12
    Calf Raises do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Seated calf press do 2 work sets rep scheme 8-10-12-15-20
    Add ab work
    If you get all of the reps on week 5 add 5%
    That should get you started. I would do this A/B/A then B/A/B until you come up to speed. Then try 4 work outs per week. A-B off. A-B off off.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    re: Workout #2

    Do you go to failure or just shy?

    Are you doing the same weight for the entire 5 week cycle? So if week one, I'm squating 250lb 4 reps x 4 sets, is the next week 250lb 5 x 4, then 250lb 6 x 4, etc....?
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    Originally Posted by golfwolf View Post
    re: Workout #2

    Do you go to failure or just shy?

    Are you doing the same weight for the entire 5 week cycle? So if week one, I'm squating 250lb 4 reps x 4 sets, is the next week 250lb 5 x 4, then 250lb 6 x 4, etc....?

    It's rep progression, you keep the weight, but increase the reps each workout
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    Been on AllPro's beginner program since February. Found the program easy to understand after reading the first several pages. Still can't understand why people are unable to help themselves first before asking repeated questions, yet I still followed the thread daily in case there were any hidden gems. Coupled with revamped nutritional habits, I think this program has been supberb for someone like me who wants to be trained without a trainer present!

    Glad that AP posted an intermediate thread, which I think is going to significantly increase his followers and the amount of helpers needed to re-hash out his responses

    Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had thought about creating a public spreadsheet on Google Docs that could be viewed and commented on by all, but can only be editted by a few. The same things can be done with FAQs for each routine. I think it would be helpful for all persons involved to have that information in one place so newcomers don't have to search all over for a link to one of the many spreadsheets.

    Just a thought... I'll be quietly lurking in the shadows again.
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    all pro, I know you've posted some ab work for peeps but I'm curious what your thoughts are concerning ab work.

    I've seen the same old debate in these forums and between my dad's workout buddies. Some say NO ab work. Some say you don''t need to do upper & lower work because the abdominals are 1 muscle, blah blah blah

    My dad doesn't do abs and his look great.

    Personally, I've always done "upper & lower" & don't consider abs any different than the other muscles in my body. I feel they need some kind of work even though they are worked while doing other exercises. Maybe its just a mental thing with me.

    I was using the high pulley w/tricep rope for years for upper and use adjustable 20lb ankle weights for lower. I did realize that it was killing my grip using the tricep rope so I bought a $6 pair of those "ab slings" you hang in for leg raises. They work well also to attach them to the high pulley to do weighted crunches.

    So, what's your opinion ?

    Necessary, not necessary or just personal preference?
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    Originally Posted by SlyWolf View Post
    Is it okay to do the first program while taking high intensity mma classes on the rest days? or is that overtraining and counter productive? I kinda wanna do this 2 day workout when I start cutting so I can still maintain a good amount of muscle.
    All you can do is try it. #1 is usually what I use from September to January. That's our flag football season. I just plod along and don't push it to hard.
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    Originally Posted by SevenSilver View Post
    I've been doing the Beginner routine for about 6/7 cycles now (I lost count... ) and I've seen very good gains but I was always planning on switching to something else after 5 or 6 cycles.

    Is it okay to switch to one of these routines now? I'm thinking the 636 one looks quite nice, especially since I -do- need to work on my cardio significantly as I can run about 3 steps and need to rest for 2 months after...

    Also bookmarked.
    Try it but be warned the 636 is no joke. It just looks simple.
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