Big failed Keto, suggestions and help!!

[ming93]

Hi everyone, in mid-april, I was really skinny boy with low body fat percentage but I wasn't happy with my skinny looking which made me to have some research about maintaining low BF and gaining mass. By that time, my stats were around 5.5feet (167.5cm), 125lbs with 7.4% BF. As you can see, I was hella skinny. Well so I looked into all those websites in google and gathered up information about CKD or Anabolic Diet and my goal was to gain mass keeping the low bf. I started in May 2nd, and had carb up in May 9th since I was in keto according to ketostix and I believed that waiting for 2 week is just to make sure that you are in Keto, and had my 2nd carb up yesterday for 24hour(Which was kind of freaking binge carb up) My current stat is 5.5feet (167.5cm), 132lbs with 13% BF. Pretty much disapointing even tho I had ruined my 2nd carb up.. I will post my meal plan up..my goal is to gain until 135lbs with 8~9% BF. If any problem is seen please give me some good advise and any suggestions for welcome. Thank you

Breakfast:
200~250g Rib eye steaks

Morning Snack:
Sargento Cheddar cheese stick

Lunch:
200~250g Salmon grilled with olive oil (1tbsp)

Lunch Snack:
Sargento Cheddar cheese stick

Dinner:
200~250g Rib eye steaks or 200~250g Salmon grilled with olive oil

(And I keep my daily calorie intake under 2100. Most ly 1600~1750 with zero carb snacks added or removed)

Working out plan (I realized that my power goes way down for lifts and training after carb up for 2~3day)

Sunday: Shoulders&Triceps&Abs and 90minutes of swimming in total, 2hour and 15 minute
Monday: Chest&Bicesps and 90minutes of swimming in total, 2hour
Tuesday: Abs&Legs and 60minute of hard muay thai train in total, 1hour and 30minute
Wednseday: Back and 60minute of hard muay thai train in total 1hour and 15minute
Thursday: Swimming for 1 hour
Friday: Muay thai for 1 hour
Saturday: Rest (Carbing up)

I have no idea why the diet was sucha big failure and i am wishing to fix it and lower my body fat before i go to trip with my parents in June 3rd! Help please : )

PS: My 2nd carb up was a dirty axx carb up, it was half the apple crumbple pie from Ruth chris, t-bone steak and some caramelized banana tart in Ruth chris and next day woke up started day with apple crumble tart AGAIN and ate udon for lunch than went to some tea set cafe ate 3 plain scones with lots of honey&jam with cream, ate whole butterbread pudding, caramel pudding with 1 piece of cheese cake going way over my daily calorie. Ate egg white scramble with 1 slice of bread in order to make my daily caloire intake not to go over 4000.. <- this might be the biggest reason why i failed but.. any good suggestions and advises please! Thanks!

[Power_Strike92]

Self control man

[MHSETRadTech]

You really think that you gained 6% BF in a week or did i read that wrong?

1. Keto for two weeks without a carb up when first beginning.

2. weight gained after carb up is usually because you are more apt to gaining water weight. don't use a scale so often, use a mirror to judge results.

3. Eat green fibrous vegs or you aren't going to be able to poop

4. If you are really wanting to bulk and you are really 7% BF, i'd do a dif diet. Muscle does better when it has some carbs to grow or at least switch to TKD instead of CKD.

5. you will gain fat when trying to build muscle. It's inevitable but you can minimize it by not going over too much in cals, but make sure you are going at least 300. I'd do 500.

6. Limit your cardio. You need to have a surplus in calories if you want to add muscle mass and doing so much cardio will hurt your progress unless you want to eat more which is a good option

[alex2363]

Welcome to the body building forums.....do less cardio, it takes away from muscle growth if u do too much cardio, try to eat more greens and keep protein up, keep lifting. the mass will come, also i would try TKD since your wanting to add more mass.The principle behind this diet is very similar to that of a CKD only you are going to consume carbohydrates right before and after your weight training workouts. This will give your body the energy it needs to lift with a higher volume and at a higher intensity level.

Athletes who are involved in high intensity sprinting exercises will also likely want to use a TKD approach as this type of exercise does require carbohydrates in the system beforehand if you hope to produce optimal results.

Sprinting on a low carbohydrate diet is generally not something most people should be doing, particularly if they are taking in a low number of calories on top of everything (people who are maintaining or trying to gain weight on a CKD may try sprinting, but it still isn't going to be as easy to do in comparison to someone who is consuming a standard, more moderate carbohydrate intake).

[Indefatigable]

PS: My 2nd carb up was a dirty axx carb up, it was half the apple crumbple pie from Ruth chris, t-bone steak and some caramelized banana tart in Ruth chris and next day woke up started day with apple crumble tart AGAIN and ate udon for lunch than went to some tea set cafe ate 3 plain scones with lots of honey&jam with cream, ate whole butterbread pudding, caramel pudding with 1 piece of cheese cake going way over my daily calorie. Ate egg white scramble with 1 slice of bread in order to make my daily caloire intake not to go over 4000.. <- this might be the biggest reason why i failed but.. any good suggestions and advises please! Thanks!

Key is you need to make sure you burn that glucogen back off, and you need to make sure your supplies are exhausted before your carb up. Also while you are carbing up, make sure you cut back on fats.

For a better understanding, it's also a good idea to weigh yourself before and after your carb up. I easily put on about 4-5kg (10ish lb), but I drink water like a fish, and within 3 or 4 days that weight is gone again, so I'm positive it is simply water.

From what I've read glucogen need 5 parts water, and your body probably can store at least a litre of glucogen in liver and muscles give or take, so that means about 5kg of water too.

I don't think it's realistic that you put on 5kg of fat, since you'd need to consume 35000 cals over maintenance in a couple of days.

[ming93]

Key is you need to make sure you burn that glucogen back off, and you need to make sure your supplies are exhausted before your carb up. Also while you are carbing up, make sure you cut back on fats.

For a better understanding, it's also a good idea to weigh yourself before and after your carb up. I easily put on about 4-5kg (10ish lb), but I drink water like a fish, and within 3 or 4 days that weight is gone again, so I'm positive it is simply water.

From what I've read glucogen need 5 parts water, and your body probably can store at least a litre of glucogen in liver and muscles give or take, so that means about 5kg of water too.

I don't think it's realistic that you put on 5kg of fat, since you'd need to consume 35000 cals over maintenance in a couple of days.

Yeah.. I hope thats all water for me as well : ) Im tryna get rid of this water for now. Been few days back on track with 0 carb and drinking 10 glasses

[ming93]

Key is you need to make sure you burn that glucogen back off, and you need to make sure your supplies are exhausted before your carb up. Also while you are carbing up, make sure you cut back on fats.

For a better understanding, it's also a good idea to weigh yourself before and after your carb up. I easily put on about 4-5kg (10ish lb), but I drink water like a fish, and within 3 or 4 days that weight is gone again, so I'm positive it is simply water.

From what I've read glucogen need 5 parts water, and your body probably can store at least a litre of glucogen in liver and muscles give or take, so that means about 5kg of water too.

I don't think it's realistic that you put on 5kg of fat, since you'd need to consume 35000 cals over maintenance in a couple of days.

Welcome to the body building forums.....do less cardio, it takes away from muscle growth if u do too much cardio, try to eat more greens and keep protein up, keep lifting. the mass will come, also i would try TKD since your wanting to add more mass.The principle behind this diet is very similar to that of a CKD only you are going to consume carbohydrates right before and after your weight training workouts. This will give your body the energy it needs to lift with a higher volume and at a higher intensity level.

Athletes who are involved in high intensity sprinting exercises will also likely want to use a TKD approach as this type of exercise does require carbohydrates in the system beforehand if you hope to produce optimal results.

Sprinting on a low carbohydrate diet is generally not something most people should be doing, particularly if they are taking in a low number of calories on top of everything (people who are maintaining or trying to gain weight on a CKD may try sprinting, but it still isn't going to be as easy to do in comparison to someone who is consuming a standard, more moderate carbohydrate intake).

I don't know what kind of carbs to take for TKD,, so i choose to do CKD, and isnt it harder to keep myself in keto?

[Brianterz]

I don't know what kind of carbs to take for TKD,, so i choose to do CKD, and isnt it harder to keep myself in keto?

if your doing a keto bulk there are two ways to do so... Myself i did CKD bulk... thats a macro breakdown 45% protein, 45% fats. 10% carbs.. with a small carb meal mid week (wednesday) and 36 hour refeed on the weekends following a depleation w/o of coarse.. Since you are bulking there is no way to avoid fat gain alltogether. so expect that..

when bulking with carb ups.. you will gain water.. since your calories are higher then a cutting diet those water weight may or may not stick with you..

[Rugger7]

Key is you need to make sure you burn that glucogen back off, and you need to make sure your supplies are exhausted before your carb up. Also while you are carbing up, make sure you cut back on fats.

For a better understanding, it's also a good idea to weigh yourself before and after your carb up. I easily put on about 4-5kg (10ish lb), but I drink water like a fish, and within 3 or 4 days that weight is gone again, so I'm positive it is simply water.

From what I've read glucogen need 5 parts water, and your body probably can store at least a litre of glucogen in liver and muscles give or take, so that means about 5kg of water too.

I don't think it's realistic that you put on 5kg of fat, since you'd need to consume 35000 cals over maintenance in a couple of days.

it's glycogen, and you don't need to avoid fat all that much on carb-up days. Obviously you're not eating as much of it, but go ahead and throw fat in there.

[ming93]

if your doing a keto bulk there are two ways to do so... Myself i did CKD bulk... thats a macro breakdown 45% protein, 45% fats. 10% carbs.. with a small carb meal mid week (wednesday) and 36 hour refeed on the weekends following a depleation w/o of coarse.. Since you are bulking there is no way to avoid fat gain alltogether. so expect that..

when bulking with carb ups.. you will gain water.. since your calories are higher then a cutting diet those water weight may or may not stick with you..

Well what I first heard about CKD bulk was that we can gain some mass without significant fat gain.. so its same as a normal diet bulk with high carb? what would be the difference than? btw im taking around 1500~1800 daily calorie is it too low or just a right amount to lose bf?

[Brianterz]

Well what I first heard about CKD bulk was that we can gain some mass without significant fat gain.. so its same as a normal diet bulk with high carb? what would be the difference than? btw im taking around 1500~1800 daily calorie is it too low or just a right amount to lose bf?

with a normal bulk diet your eating high calories all day... like 2x lean mass protien.. 2x lean mass carbs.. low fat.. with a keto ckd bulk.. you should be eating a 45-45 split and low carb.. one carb meal mid week and carb ups on the weekend..CKD will limit the fat gain while bulking but not eliminate it

[ming93]

with a normal bulk diet your eating high calories all day... like 2x lean mass protien.. 2x lean mass carbs.. low fat.. with a keto ckd bulk.. you should be eating a 45-45 split and low carb.. one carb meal mid week and carb ups on the weekend..CKD will limit the fat gain while bulking but not eliminate it

Thanx for the perfect answer,, realized that it cant eliminate. Any opinion about eating sweet potato before work out? plus should I be waiting for 2weeks until the thing called "Keto adaptation"? or should i ignore that and start carbing up in mid week and weekend, cuz i had found some threads and websites that claims there will be a big muscle loss if there are no carb provided for over 3~4day which will lead to the muscle loss. Any other advises? Thanks : )

[Brianterz]

Thanx for the perfect answer,, realized that it cant eliminate. Any opinion about eating sweet potato before work out? plus should I be waiting for 2weeks until the thing called "Keto adaptation"? or should i ignore that and start carbing up in mid week and weekend, cuz i had found some threads and websites that claims there will be a big muscle loss if there are no carb provided for over 3~4day which will lead to the muscle loss. Any other advises? Thanks : )

that is debatable.. But since your eating a carb meal on wed.. your still with in that 3-4 day window.. if your eating a sweat potato pre work out that would be TKD.. then you should eat carb meals pre and post.. with no carb up.. I like CKD much better

[tonytoo]

Welcome to the body building forums.....do less cardio, it takes away from muscle growth if u do too much cardio, try to eat more greens and keep protein up, keep lifting. the mass will come, also i would try TKD since your wanting to add more mass.The principle behind this diet is very similar to that of a CKD only you are going to consume carbohydrates right before and after your weight training workouts. This will give your body the energy it needs to lift with a higher volume and at a higher intensity level.

Athletes who are involved in high intensity sprinting exercises will also likely want to use a TKD approach as this type of exercise does require carbohydrates in the system beforehand if you hope to produce optimal results.

Sprinting on a low carbohydrate diet is generally not something most people should be doing, particularly if they are taking in a low number of calories on top of everything (people who are maintaining or trying to gain weight on a CKD may try sprinting, but it still isn't going to be as easy to do in comparison to someone who is consuming a standard, more moderate carbohydrate intake).

... this is all solid advice right here.

[ming93]

that is debatable.. But since your eating a carb meal on wed.. your still with in that 3-4 day window.. if your eating a sweat potato pre work out that would be TKD.. then you should eat carb meals pre and post.. with no carb up.. I like CKD much better

thnx for the help! I relli appreciate : )! I'm just going to keep up with CKD, any good idea to add on my meal or exercise routine?? PS: I love CKD more than TKD as well.. since i wud love to eat breads and carbs in the weekend!

[ming93]

... this is all solid advice right here.

Thnx for the strong solid advice! I'm tryna give more perfection on my diet in order to gain some mass after carb up and keep the fat gain minimum!

[DustyChicago]

You sound like an awesome dude. Swimming, Muay Thai training, fancy vacations, expensive steak houses...

does your mom have a boyfriend?

[ming93]

You sound like an awesome dude. Swimming, Muay Thai training, fancy vacations, expensive steak houses...

does your mom have a boyfriend?

lol Its just that my family loves to spend most of $ on food and sports haha and it was my first vacation in 2011 so i had to enjoy it like hell, having 1 more vacation in June for sure since my dad is coming back from foreign

[TonyBear]

This is the diet im doing, it doesn't have cheese, because i read in these forums that cheese can be an impediment toward weight loss in the keto low-carb diets.

Well, my diet from breakast until night has the following foods: eggs, egg-beaters, cooking spray, brocoli, chicken, chicken leg quarters, butter, whey protein powder, Diet-Coke, Nutrasweet diet-sugar, Bustelo espresso coffee


BREAKFAST: 11 AM (15 grams of fat. 200 calories)
3 eggs
a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
Blend all ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

LUNCH: 2:30 PM (30 grams of fat. 600 calories)
9 ounces of cooked baked chicken
A small serving of steamed brocoli (like half a small bowl)
1 tablespoon of butter

DINNER # 1 7PM (25 grams of fat. 400 calories)
3 eggs a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
1 scoop of vanilla whey protein powder
1 tablesoon of butter
Blend all ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

DINNER # 2 9 PM (40 grams of fats. 600 calories)
3 eggs
1/3 cup of egg-beaters
a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
1 tablespoon of butter
5 ounces of chicken
Blend the first 6 ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

TOTAL AMOUNT OF CALORIES: 1800 CALORIES. TOTAL AMOUNT OF FATS: 110 GRAMS OF FATS (55% OF FATS OF 1800 CALORIES)


.

Hi everyone, in mid-april, I was really skinny boy with low body fat percentage but I wasn't happy with my skinny looking which made me to have some research about maintaining low BF and gaining mass. By that time, my stats were around 5.5feet (167.5cm), 125lbs with 7.4% BF. As you can see, I was hella skinny. Well so I looked into all those websites in google and gathered up information about CKD or Anabolic Diet and my goal was to gain mass keeping the low bf. I started in May 2nd, and had carb up in May 9th since I was in keto according to ketostix and I believed that waiting for 2 week is just to make sure that you are in Keto, and had my 2nd carb up yesterday for 24hour(Which was kind of freaking binge carb up) My current stat is 5.5feet (167.5cm), 132lbs with 13% BF. Pretty much disapointing even tho I had ruined my 2nd carb up.. I will post my meal plan up..my goal is to gain until 135lbs with 8~9% BF. If any problem is seen please give me some good advise and any suggestions for welcome. Thank you

Breakfast:
200~250g Rib eye steaks

Morning Snack:
Sargento Cheddar cheese stick

Lunch:
200~250g Salmon grilled with olive oil (1tbsp)

Lunch Snack:
Sargento Cheddar cheese stick

Dinner:
200~250g Rib eye steaks or 200~250g Salmon grilled with olive oil

(And I keep my daily calorie intake under 2100. Most ly 1600~1750 with zero carb snacks added or removed)

Working out plan (I realized that my power goes way down for lifts and training after carb up for 2~3day)

Sunday: Shoulders&Triceps&Abs and 90minutes of swimming in total, 2hour and 15 minute
Monday: Chest&Bicesps and 90minutes of swimming in total, 2hour
Tuesday: Abs&Legs and 60minute of hard muay thai train in total, 1hour and 30minute
Wednseday: Back and 60minute of hard muay thai train in total 1hour and 15minute
Thursday: Swimming for 1 hour
Friday: Muay thai for 1 hour
Saturday: Rest (Carbing up)

I have no idea why the diet was sucha big failure and i am wishing to fix it and lower my body fat before i go to trip with my parents in June 3rd! Help please : )

PS: My 2nd carb up was a dirty axx carb up, it was half the apple crumbple pie from Ruth chris, t-bone steak and some caramelized banana tart in Ruth chris and next day woke up started day with apple crumble tart AGAIN and ate udon for lunch than went to some tea set cafe ate 3 plain scones with lots of honey&jam with cream, ate whole butterbread pudding, caramel pudding with 1 piece of cheese cake going way over my daily calorie. Ate egg white scramble with 1 slice of bread in order to make my daily caloire intake not to go over 4000.. <- this might be the biggest reason why i failed but.. any good suggestions and advises please! Thanks!

[ming93]

[QUOTE=TonyBear;683513471]This is the diet im doing, it doesn't have cheese, because i read in these forums that cheese can be an impediment toward weight loss in the keto low-carb diets.

Well, my diet from breakast until night has the following foods: eggs, egg-beaters, cooking spray, brocoli, chicken, chicken leg quarters, butter, whey protein powder, Diet-Coke, Nutrasweet diet-sugar, Bustelo espresso coffee


BREAKFAST: 11 AM (15 grams of fat. 200 calories)
3 eggs
a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
Blend all ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

LUNCH: 2:30 PM (30 grams of fat. 600 calories)
9 ounces of cooked baked chicken
A small serving of steamed brocoli (like half a small bowl)
1 tablespoon of butter

DINNER # 1 7PM (25 grams of fat. 400 calories)
3 eggs a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
1 scoop of vanilla whey protein powder
1 tablesoon of butter
Blend all ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

DINNER # 2 9 PM (40 grams of fats. 600 calories)
3 eggs
1/3 cup of egg-beaters
a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
1 tablespoon of butter
5 ounces of chicken
Blend the first 6 ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

TOTAL AMOUNT OF CALORIES: 1800 CALORIES. TOTAL AMOUNT OF FATS: 110 GRAMS OF FATS (55% OF FATS OF 1800 CALORIES)



thnx for the information about the meal plan but,, I'm thinking about tracking my calorie until 1500 since my height and weight is not so big that my maintanence is so low.. if i was to follow that, i should exclude some including lower calorie foods.

[Indefatigable]

it's glycogen, and you don't need to avoid fat all that much on carb-up days. Obviously you're not eating as much of it, but go ahead and throw fat in there.

Thanks, I'm not claiming to be an expert just reflecting on my experience, and always appreciate knowledge from others. My thoughts on cutting back fat were with regards to higher insulin levels possibly encouraging fat storage... But I wasn't meaning avoid fat like someone who is scared of the stuff, just compensating and having significantly less considering greater amount of cals coming from carbs.

I'd try to eat quite clean while carbing up.

[Indefatigable]

[QUOTE=ming93;684057101]

This is the diet im doing, it doesn't have cheese, because i read in these forums that cheese can be an impediment toward weight loss in the keto low-carb diets.

Well, my diet from breakast until night has the following foods: eggs, egg-beaters, cooking spray, brocoli, chicken, chicken leg quarters, butter, whey protein powder, Diet-Coke, Nutrasweet diet-sugar, Bustelo espresso coffee


BREAKFAST: 11 AM (15 grams of fat. 200 calories)
3 eggs
a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
Blend all ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

LUNCH: 2:30 PM (30 grams of fat. 600 calories)
9 ounces of cooked baked chicken
A small serving of steamed brocoli (like half a small bowl)
1 tablespoon of butter

DINNER # 1 7PM (25 grams of fat. 400 calories)
3 eggs a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
1 scoop of vanilla whey protein powder
1 tablesoon of butter
Blend all ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

DINNER # 2 9 PM (40 grams of fats. 600 calories)
3 eggs
1/3 cup of egg-beaters
a bit of vinegar
half tea-spoon of salt
3 packets of nutrasweet diet-sugar
1 tablespoon of butter
5 ounces of chicken
Blend the first 6 ingredients in juice-blender and pour into hot cooking frying pan, sprayed with cooking spray and cook like a regular pancake at low fire

TOTAL AMOUNT OF CALORIES: 1800 CALORIES. TOTAL AMOUNT OF FATS: 110 GRAMS OF FATS (55% OF FATS OF 1800 CALORIES)



thnx for the information about the meal plan but,, I'm thinking about tracking my calorie until 1500 since my height and weight is not so big that my maintanence is so low.. if i was to follow that, i should exclude some including lower calorie foods.

Wow lot of eggs

I also tend to have 3 eggs for breakfast and maybe a half rasher of bacon, 3 eggs for some reason seems to be habit lol, lately I've been cooking them in butter, was using olive oil and still do from time to time. I'm quite generous with the oil and pour it over the eggs so I get a good dose of oil calories.

I try to mix things up a bit for lunch onwards, tuna with mayo and cucumber is good, as is chicken like you say. I guess mayo is kinda egg, oil and vinegar anyway so it's a good egg alternative. I love avacados too, and will often have one whole for lunch, don't worry about the carbs in avo, most of them are fibre.

Dinner I like to have meat with a lot of green fiborous vege, and never had a problem with them, check out broad beans they are are only about 5g carb per 100g... green beans (not peas) ,broccoli < have loads of that one, cauliflower < grated and microwaved makes a great rice alternative, lettuce, chard, etc etc Basically plenty of fibre, stuff all carbs and a good dose of nutrients.