Liberal Students are asked to give GPA points to lazy students

[npaoun]

So in your opinion there are no CEOs that currently bank multimillion bonuses even when their companies are burning down around them. Strong reality.

Of course there are some people not earning their money, but that doesn't hold true for only CEOs. There are people in all their fields that perform low.

I'm saying that people that are in high-earning positions are in those positions (generally) because they offer a set of skills and knowledge that is scarce compared to the rest of the population. Its why a doctor/lawyer/CEO will always make more than the minimum wage guy. There are hundreds of thousands of people that can operate a cash register. There are few that can run a corporation wisely.

[bsteinmetz6]

^^ LOL, you're proving your own point. The holocaust didn't make "economic" sense (nor moral nor human sense, obviously), but the holocaust wasn't done by the free market. It was done by government.

If something makes economic sense, whether it be a train, a bridge, a toll road or a building, then free enterprise will provide for it. If something doesn't make economic sense, such as the proposed "3C's Railway" for Ohio that would cost $550 million to build and have an operating deficit of $17 million/year, then the government has to do it. Obviously the private sector won't.

and I gotta laugh at your statement that "we shouldn't put the needs of foreigners over our own." So does that mean you're opposed to foreign aid? What about UNICEF and our other involvements in the UN? Would you support far-right positions that we leave the UN? What about illegal immigration from Mexico, are you opposed to that? They all cost money, and after all, we shouldn't be putting the needs of foreigners over our own, right?

If I am correct the role of government includes transportation (roads, highways etc) which a train will fall into. I dont see how it is a problem that they invest 17 million dollars a year into a train that can create more tax revenue by helping people get to work or vacation etc. Also probably opening businesses around the train stops. And I am absolutely 100% against foreign aid and the the illegal mexicans. If this country is in trillions of dollars worth of debt no sense in helping anyone else, until we're solvent. If my checking account was negative 100 bucks I certainly would not be giving a 20 dollar bill to the poor. The UN is a joke however if nothing else it keeps diplomatic ties between the nations of the world, which I believe to be a good thing.

[racketteer]

Oh look it's the Just World Fallacy thread again.

America, where "good decision making skills" and hard work are always rewarded, bad things never happen to good people, etc. What a magical place.

why would a bad decision be rewarded? anyone care to answer this?

[Aaron47pb]

Terrible comparison. Rich people make money because other people are well off who give them money, those people who give them money are well off because others give them money. They have a chance to make money because of government intervention in things, like laws that make society stable. If they don't want to make society a better place, then go to another country without many laws. See how much money you make when things aren't as stable and don't have the same infrastructure.

What does property rights and the enforcement of law have to do with welfare?

[7ENU7]

Didn't watch. The "share your GPA" concept is absolutely inane. It doesn't even come close to being an accurate or fair way of representing issues that actually face society. The concept of sharing gpa with lazy student isn't even remotely comparable to safety nets in place for society when people hit hard times.

Feel free to argue or disagree with liberal ideas, but at least address the actual issues instead of spreading this embarassing way of thinking about social issues. It just makes opposition to liberal ideologies look dumber than it should.

/rant

Edit: I'm actually a moderate who supports the iidea of welfare but not as the system stands currently. I just think this is an ignorant form of debate about the topic.

this
/thread

[JB05]

If I am correct the role of government includes transportation (roads, highways etc) which a train will fall into. I dont see how it is a problem that they invest 17 million dollars a year into a train that can create more tax revenue by helping people get to work or vacation etc. Also probably opening businesses around the train stops. And I am absolutely 100% against foreign aid and the the illegal mexicans. If this country is in trillions of dollars worth of debt no sense in helping anyone else, until we're solvent. If my checking account was negative 100 bucks I certainly would not be giving a 20 dollar bill to the poor. The UN is a joke however if nothing else it keeps diplomatic ties between the nations of the world, which I believe to be a good thing.

Repped for at least being somewhat sensible. The typical liberal will drone on about sub-Saharan Africa, Haiti, Cuba, illegal immigrants, malaria in Africa, etc., but when told that capitalism and outsourcing is solving many of these poverty issues in Asia and India, they suddenly become protectionist over American dollars and jobs. Repped for having good sense and being consistent.

[sportsfan7]

So in your opinion there are no CEOs that currently bank multimillion bonuses even when their companies are burning down around them. Strong reality.

They're worth their pay because their companies would be doing even worse without them.

If you make a company lose $20 mil instead of $40 mi, you're worth at least $19 mil..

[sportsfan7]

No way benefits > costs for outsourcing. That would only apply to the corporation who does it. For the U.S. DEFINITELY not, putting people out of work is not a net gain. It possibly could be for the world, but the role of a government is first and foremost to take care of its own people. We shouldn't put the needs of foreigners over our own.

It leads to lower prices on goods and services which makes Americans wealthier.

If there was no outsourcing then Americans would be poorer. And in the long-term, past 2-3 year stretches, Americans would not only end up much, much (I'm talking >20%) poorer, they'd also have higher unemployment because the industries that are prevented from outsourcing would just go out of business to more efficient foreign competition.

Replacing a domestic worker with a cheaper, more efficient foreign worker is no different than replacing a domestic worker with a cheaper, more efficient robot or truck. It's a 'technological advancement' caused by a better 'technology': lower minimum wage (less government regulation) and lower operating costs overseas (less government regulation).

Why not make trucks illegal and force companies to transport goods by tying ropes to moving people? Obviously, that would benefit Americans and increase employment.. according to your logic.

[GiantMonkey]

You think that someone making 5 million dollars/ year pays less taxes than someone who makes 50,000 / year?

As a percentage of their income yes the America's richest taxpayers pay less federal income tax than someone who makes $50,000

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_850174.html

The Internal Revenue Service tracks the tax returns with the 400 highest adjusted gross incomes each year. The average income on those returns in 2007, the latest year for IRS data, was nearly $345 million. Their average federal income tax rate was 17 percent, down from 26 percent in 1992.

According to the IRS if you file single you should pay $4,836, plus 25% on all of your income over $31,850.

So $50,000-31,850 = 18,150
18,150(0.25)= 4537.50
4537.50 + 4836= 9373.50

9373.50/50,000 = 0.187 or 18.7%

I would figure that the person who makes $50k would have some deductions, so it would drop the amount they need to pay down. Even if this is the case the two percentages would be close.

Now if you were to compare $150k to the richest Americans then yes they would be higher.

[godsangina2]

there are less jobs than there are people



remember this?

[fballer12]

Not like there's any other option, hence the problem with the 2 party system. It's 2 sides of the same coin. I'm actually open to voting for a republican if I feel he has a strong policy on restoring the value of the dollar and preventing us from being debt-pwnd into oblivion.

I feel like the biggest issue in the next election will be how to restrain the fed from inflating the fuk out of our currency in order to artificially inflate the dow. It's fuked because our parents or anyone who is planning retirement is going to lose a ton of money.

"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. I am an enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but coin. If the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

- Thomas Jefferson.

uhhhhh...ron paul?

[bsteinmetz6]

It leads to lower prices on goods and services which makes Americans wealthier.

If there was no outsourcing then Americans would be poorer. And in the long-term, past 2-3 year stretches, Americans would not only end up much, much (I'm talking >20%) poorer, they'd also have higher unemployment because the industries that are prevented from outsourcing would just go out of business to more efficient foreign competition.

Replacing a domestic worker with a cheaper, more efficient foreign worker is no different than replacing a domestic worker with a cheaper, more efficient robot or truck. It's a 'technological advancement' caused by a better 'technology': lower minimum wage (less government regulation) and lower operating costs overseas (less government regulation).

Why not make trucks illegal and force companies to transport goods by tying ropes to moving people? Obviously, that would benefit Americans and increase employment.. according to your logic.

Im not so upset with outsourcing you have to do what you have to do to keep your business afloat. The US absolutely could become very competitive on the market if the government would loosen some of its over strenuous regulations on people. I dont know of exact numbers but I would say 30% of operating costs is going towards meeting government demands on safety, emissions, etc. Not saying I want to live next a toxic waste dump or have workers getting hurt but at the same time we worked without OSHA for thousands of years and the smoke from China making money is just blowing over here anyways. The .gov is sabotaging its own people by overstepping their purpose and over regulating the companies to death, which forces outsourcing. Its alot easier to just collect your check at the end of the month from your Chinese factory than have to deal with all the political bull**** over here.

[Mbalz-Iz-Hari]

[chrisboudreaux]

It IS different though. People aren't born with low GPA and aren't born into high GPA, and sometimes no matter how hard you work if you don't get lucky you just can't make money from a low income bracket.

Everyone has a fair and equal chance with the GPA system because you all start off with 0, and you can't persuade your teachers to give you answers with your higher GPA. Your connections with teachers because of your higher GPA also doesn't affect your grade.

Likewise, there's no inherent difficulty in getting grades if you have a low GPA, you can go from 1.0 to 4.0 with no problem, and a 4.0 can go to a 1.0 no problem.

Yes but point is irrelevant. You sound like you are suggesting no one has ever started from nothing and amassed tons of wealth....

[NYRB]

christ, right wing rednecks are really hardcore trolling us all aren't they.

lol @ thinking the USA is soviet russia with collective farms.

[DCutch]

christ, right wing rednecks are really hardcore trolling us all aren't they.

lol @ thinking the USA is soviet russia with collective farms.

Sorry we believe in the concept that you reap what you sow. Lol @ us being right wing rednecks for that.

[TheAdlerian]

The OP is tricky propaganda.

School = Sport

People qualify for school just like they qualify for a sporting event. So, it's mostly a level playing field once you start college. So, if you slack off and begin to perform poorly, then it's on you, thus other students shouldn't be expected to help you. The same goes for sports, you don't turn around and help someone who fell, you keep going.

Most people on welfare are born into a disadvantaged situation and did not start out on a level playing field with the rest of us. That could be a poor area with no jobs, crappy schools, or it could be something like being in an abusive household, having a couple less IQ points, or whatever. All of those people need help, and we're required to help them, because we got lucky and they didn't.

That's why it's BS to compare school with the larger problems of life.

[MineTurntoFap]

ITT: Liberals cant form a coherent argument against this analogy

[nzgs]

I'd like someone to explain to me why they think earnings scale with effort or worth. Seems a rather simple fallacy to rebuke. Surely any adult who lives in the real world with a modicum of humility can appreciate that life isn't fair and some people get the raw end of it.

[Recoome]

The OP is tricky propaganda.

School = Sport

People qualify for school just like they qualify for a sporting event. So, it's mostly a level playing field once you start college. So, if you slack off and begin to perform poorly, then it's on you, thus other students shouldn't be expected to help you. The same goes for sports, you don't turn around and help someone who fell, you keep going.

Most people on welfare are born into a disadvantaged situation and did not start out on a level playing field with the rest of us. That could be a poor area with no jobs, crappy schools, or it could be something like being in an abusive household, having a couple less IQ points, or whatever. All of those people need help, and we're required to help them, because we got lucky and they didn't.

That's why it's BS to compare school with the larger problems of life.

How is it a level playing field once you start college? Some people are still more intelligent than others or don't have learning disabilities, more financially secure (so they don't have to work), grew up with better parents who instilled them with a work ethic, and thus get higher GPA's. The same applies to the real world. I honestly don't see the difference between the two situations.

[OmniscientCause]

what i dont get is all the conservatives in this thread calling out the liberal students...who look more foreign than liberal to be honest...the point of the video is to show people how the welfare system is messed up and that conservatives dont want to increase taxes to give to the less fortunate much like good students dont want to give away points from their gpa...but by bashing the "liberal students" as you are, you are doing the same thing as this video...you are the ones that dont want increases in taxes so you should also not support the taxing of ones grades, yet thats essentially what you are doing...

libertarian here...i just think both systems are messed up the way they are proposed.

[Recoome]

what i dont get is all the conservatives in this thread calling out the liberal students...who look more foreign than liberal to be honest...the point of the video is to show people how the welfare system is messed up and that conservatives dont want to increase taxes to give to the less fortunate much like good students dont want to give away points from their gpa...but by bashing the "liberal students" as you are, you are doing the same thing as this video...you are the ones that dont want increases in taxes so you should also not support the taxing of ones grades, yet thats essentially what you are doing...

libertarian here...i just think both systems are messed up the way they are proposed.

Pretty sure the conservatives in this thread are calling the liberal students out on their hypocrisy. On one hand they say they want even higher taxes on wealthy people, and then they turn around and say they don't want to redistribute GPA's.

[OmniscientCause]

Pretty sure the conservatives in this thread are calling the liberal students out on their hypocrisy. On one hand they say they want even higher taxes on wealthy people, and then they turn around and say they don't want to redistribute GPA's.

yea they rnt very consistent...cant have it both ways.

[TheAdlerian]

How is it a level playing field once you start college? Some people are still more intelligent than others or don't have learning disabilities, more financially secure (so they don't have to work), grew up with better parents who instilled them with a work ethic, and thus get higher GPA's. The same applies to the real world. I honestly don't see the difference between the two situations.

Did you go to a college yet?

Most have required scores for entrance exams, hich school GPA, and for grad school you have special tests, and so on. You're correct that individual students have advantages once you get beyond the entrance process, but it's all still far more level than being born into poverty versus some rich family.

Again, school is like an intellectual sport where the rich althete might hire trainers and whatnot, but the natural athlete ghetto dude can still beat him. That's because he was born with natural resources to do so. That does not hold for economics because no matter what kind of person you are it's very tough, if not impossible, to aquire funds or make up for the lack of them in your community. That difficulty can make perfectly capable people either give up, or not know they're capable, because they've have poor schooling, no libraries, internet, etc.

[maynardjames]

christ, right wing rednecks are really hardcore trolling us all aren't they.

Lol @ thinking the usa is soviet russia with collective farms.

lmao

[Darkhare]

Didn't watch. The "share your GPA" concept is absolutely inane. It doesn't even come close to being an accurate or fair way of representing issues that actually face society. The concept of sharing gpa with lazy student isn't even remotely comparable to safety nets in place for society when people hit hard times.

Feel free to argue or disagree with liberal ideas, but at least address the actual issues instead of spreading this embarassing way of thinking about social issues. It just makes opposition to liberal ideologies look dumber than it should.

/rant

Edit: I'm actually a moderate who supports the iidea of welfare but not as the system stands currently. I just think this is an ignorant form of debate about the topic.

this

while funny and all... Roads aren't built on GPA, police, fire and paramedics aren't paid with gpas... We over value ceo positions and many other jobs are over inflated... Either we need to tax the rich OR pay your typical tradesworker more.. Companies wouldn't make a dime without the people on the ground.. so IMO the pay scale needs to even out.. just sayin'...

as far as welfare goes.... it's a joke.. People fall on hard times i hear that... then welfare should also provide retraining, make it easy for people to get on their feet. Welfare users should also have to submit to drug tests.. If guys up in fort mac working oil rigs need to take drug tests, so should welfare users..

[pickupstix60]

Lol @ this entire "argument" laying on the foundation of a poor equivocation

[sportsfan7]

this
. We over value ceo positions and many other jobs are over inflated.

.. As I already said, this should be a market inefficiency. You could become one of the richest men in the world by investing or starting your own business based on low-CEO pay, right?

If not then your point is invalid.

[racketteer]

what i dont get is all the conservatives in this thread calling out the liberal students...who look more foreign than liberal to be honest...the point of the video is to show people how the welfare system is messed up and that conservatives dont want to increase taxes to give to the less fortunate much like good students dont want to give away points from their gpa...but by bashing the "liberal students" as you are, you are doing the same thing as this video...you are the ones that dont want increases in taxes so you should also not support the taxing of ones grades, yet thats essentially what you are doing...

libertarian here...i just think both systems are messed up the way they are proposed.

what are you trying to say?

[awax]

I agree that money and GPA distribution are not the exact same, and can't be treated the same. However, anyone who claims the analogy presented in the video has no relation whatsoever to the current tax/welfare system is ignorant.

Those who actually need help should have it available. I just believe that those who do receive help should feel both thankful and hopeful that they can work hard enough to eventually not need help anymore. I may just be misinformed, but I almost never hear of those on welfare for extended periods of time feeling thankful, nor motivated to work their way off of welfare.

Welfare is a safety net. No one should want to rely on it. Anyone who does receive the benefit of it should be thankful to those who provide it (the taxpayers, not the government) and should work to return the favor to others who need it in the future.