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  1. #121
    Erick wrecked it PR1MO's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rugger7 View Post
    actually, it's a fairly awesome ****ing analogy and I think that's why everyone avoided it and instead trolled through my pics and found where I didn't shake it well enough to lurk on that?
    Actually, it was a terrible analogy. In your car example, you were comparing 80% high octane fuel and 20% of something that a car can't use as fuel. Whereas in the human example we are talking about 80% of whole foods then 20% of other food that the individual chooses. Even if the individual chooses "junk" his/her body can still use that food as fuel. A better analogy would of been filling your car with 80% 98 octane fuel and then topping it off with 20% 91 octane.
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  2. #122
    Glutes... they are back Cumulonimbus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by danmarco View Post
    lol im serious tho
    Re-read my post.
    Just a weight lifter
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  3. #123
    Author/Trainer 2020Wellness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    It does. But nutritional science is not about "vibes".
    No, but the average person's usage of the program is. If they see something that essentially says eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros, that could lead them down a pretty undesireable path. You know I'm speaking the truth big JB.
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  4. #124
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    Originally Posted by 2020Wellness View Post
    OK, page 2 then.
    Protein and fat are essential nutrients and as such have minimum daily values. Once you hit those minimums you can do as you please with the rest of your calories taking into consideration your personal response to different macronutrients.
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  5. #125
    Registered User danmarco's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cumulonimbus View Post
    Re-read my post.
    no.
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  6. #126
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    Originally Posted by 2020Wellness View Post
    No, but the average person's usage of the program is. If they see something that essentially says eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros, that could lead them down a pretty undesireable path. You know I'm speaking the truth big JB.
    You are correct. However, most people are stupid and frankly I don't care about them.
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  7. #127
    Author/Trainer 2020Wellness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    You are correct. However, most people are stupid and frankly I don't care about them.
    Thats just one of the differences between me and you.

    Oh, and about your vasectomy plans, I'd definitely reconsider if I were you....just something to keep in the back of your mind.
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  8. #128
    Glutes... they are back Cumulonimbus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    You are correct. However, most people are stupid and frankly I don't care about them.
    lol, this.
    Just a weight lifter
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  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by 2020Wellness View Post
    Thats just one of the differences between me and you.
    You're a personal trainer. Your profession revolves around caring or at the very least pretending to care about your clients (not implying YOU don't care, just pointing it out). But as far as I'm concerned if someone lacks the intellect to understand what "IIFYM" really stands for then I really have no desire to help them. They're probably going to fail anyway.

    Originally Posted by 2020Wellness View Post
    Oh, and about your vasectomy plans, I'd definitely reconsider if I were you....just something to keep in the back of your mind.
    Fair enough.
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  10. #130
    Author/Trainer 2020Wellness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    You're a personal trainer. Your profession revolves around caring or at the very least pretending to care about your clients (not implying YOU don't care, just pointing it out). But as far as I'm concerned if someone lacks the intellect to understand what "IIFYM" really stands for then I really have no desire to help them. They're probably going to fail anyway.
    You seem to be successful in the gym, was there ever a point in the beginning that you knew very little about nutrition and training? You don't have to answer that, everyone's answer is yes.

    Read that bolded part and understand that someone most likely once thought the exact same of you.

    Food for thought man.
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  11. #131
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    ignorance =/= stupidity
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  12. #132
    Author/Trainer 2020Wellness's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    Fair enough.
    I've had it done, but I had no need for the plumbing anymore. Not every guy can say they've literally seen smoke coming out of their sac! I'm one that can. Gotta love cauterizing.
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  13. #133
    Kfme psychodiver9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cumulonimbus View Post


    You pee your pants?
    Only the cool kids pee their pants
    PL Log
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=154662503

    BTK!

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  14. #134
    t=io.read() print(t) bappz08's Avatar
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    Use the IIFYM restaurant for a reference, to those of you who are still lost:



    Last edited by bappz08; 04-15-2011 at 11:33 PM.
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  15. #135
    Registered User Soiren's Avatar
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    First, thanks god i discovered this forum a year ago and started educating myself on nutrition. I was fed by all that crap like GI, meal timing, clean/dirty food, etc for a lot time. I honestly can say that those principles, actively being preached in this forum, help me to recover from ed, to get my social life keep going and to get the best results in my life in weightroom. Yes, weird, but once i stopped worrying about all that sht, my energy (both mental and physical) significantly went up. Not to mention i feel myself free now.

    But wrt to discussion popped up earlier in this topic...
    I saw a post where Alan Aragon stated that surplus in form of carbs will result in better gains in terms of m/f ratio as opposed to surplus of fat. But on the other hand fat helps hormone production. So, is there really any upper limit of fat intake after which it does not significantly contribute to it (production of hormones)?
    And, since fat doesn't make you fat (calories do), why does high fat intake on a bulk (ie in a hypercaloric state) could lead to an unnecessary fat storage?
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  16. #136
    The Merciful alan aragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smellypoopug View Post
    I've been lurking in the forum for a while and really can't stand this cr4p anymore.

    You know why you see insult after insult? The people who believe in IIFYM are mostly minor in their 18s-20s with a few old guys who still believe in tooth fairy.Look at their age.What do you expect?

    These bookworms believe in everything they read on the internet and they force you to believe the same **** by neg or insult or post some stupid images. The feebleminded IIFYMers wants to prove themselves so hard on the internet because they can't do it in the real world as nobody will give a **** to this stupid theory. This is like a small corner space where they can declare themselves as superior, no holds barred if you belong to IIFYM.

    Come neg me phagg0t and say "there is a reason Y he is red!" Everyone can see that this forum is failing bit by bit with this IIFYM cult group. There are so many threads popping up that seem to be encouraging people to eat junk food and WHAT?! IS THIS A JUNK FOOD FORUM OR NUTRITION FORUM?

    Hollywood movie stars are rich, they can easily employ cooks to make delicious food that can fit into their macros. Why is hugh jackman, ryan reynolds still eating brown rice and chicken every meal when they are preparing for athletic roles in blockbuster movies? How come they don't fit in ice-cream or chocolate or kellogg's cereals into their macros?

    Most of the IIFYMers are young and lean-average body size and most likely dim-witted, fitting in ice-cream into your diet of course won't affect much. Tell that to a 40 year old with 30% bodyfat* who is trying to lose weight in the best possible way. Most people who are extremely fat have diabetes or high blood pressure, tell them there is no difference when you eat low GI food. Food timing does not matter, tell that to someone with gastric problems. IIFYM DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERYONE, stop making it sounds like it is the best health theory. Fact is IIFYMers don't give a d4mn about their health, they've sold their soul to the devil in return of anything they can stuff into their BIG fAt mOuTh! You can choose to die early alone but don't expect everyone to be buried with you.

    IIFYM STINKS, U MAD?
    ^Are you a random, anonymous, angry red guy throwing a fit? It sure looks that way. Please do more reading & less ranting. Thanks.
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  17. #137
    The Merciful alan aragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rugger7 View Post
    Why would I join a competition? I've never been in a bodybuilding show or a powerlifting meet, I have plenty of internal motivation.
    I dunno. Perhaps I was just being optimistic in my thinking that you'd actually put up some concrete substance (results) instead of just raiding threads with your self-righteous clap trap.
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  18. #138
    The Merciful alan aragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Soiren View Post
    First, thanks god i discovered this forum a year ago and started educating myself on nutrition. I was fed by all that crap like GI, meal timing, clean/dirty food, etc for a lot time. I honestly can say that those principles, actively being preached in this forum, help me to recover from ed, to get my social life keep going and to get the best results in my life in weightroom. Yes, weird, but once i stopped worrying about all that sht, my energy (both mental and physical) significantly went up. Not to mention i feel myself free now.

    But wrt to discussion popped up earlier in this topic...
    I saw a post where Alan Aragon stated that surplus in form of carbs will result in better gains in terms of m/f ratio as opposed to surplus of fat. But on the other hand fat helps hormone production. So, is there really any upper limit of fat intake after which it does not significantly contribute to it (production of hormones)?
    And, since fat doesn't make you fat (calories do), why does high fat intake on a bulk (ie in a hypercaloric state) could lead to an unnecessary fat storage?
    Bold: because under hypercaloric conditions, once the lean growth demands are met, the body has negligible use for that particular substrate (fat) if it's administered in surplus doses. Now, if your surplus is more subtle, there's less to worry about. If you dig back, you'll see that I somewhat disclaimed the hypothetical stuff with what I've seen in the real world, which is an isocaloric distribution of the macros (in a surplus) working just as well as a carb/protein-dominant surplus. There are plenty of topics such as this one that have not been systematically or objectively investigated. As far as this area goes, all we can really do is hypothesize and put ideas to trial.
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  19. #139
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    FINALLY got my PC back working phew. I sifted through the last couple of pages past the trolling (some dude said I was his car or dog or something idn).

    @2020
    It appears your questions have thus far been answered, no? They seemed to be more or less directed at me.

    From what I've seen, you asked why there was no minimum requirement for carbohydrates, and the answer was given that they are not essential for survival. You then asked why there was no minimum for carbohydrates, and were told they are not essential for survival. Having carefully reviewed these answers, you proceeded to ask why there was no minimum requirement for carbohydrates.

    Either I'm in the wrong thread, or that's what I'm seeing. In the OP it's explained that after the minimum protein/fat requirements are filled, the remaining calories can be derived from whatever the individual prefers.

    That means if someone has 600 kcal left for the day, they can fill it with carbs or more protein/fats.
    If someone decides to fill the remaining kcal with steak, and as a result experience low energy the entire day due to their low carbohydrate intake, their preferences may change - they either start having less steak and a bit more carbs to up their energy levels, or they continue filling all their calories with steak because it's delicious.
    Individual preferences are not limited to what they find tastiest - obviously the scope of what's more important can change.

    Are you actually legitimately confused with the OP, or just pointing out self-proclaimed 'flaws' as to let everyone know your disposition towards the IIFYM approach? If so, I fear your troubles potentially stem further than plain ignorance, and perhaps into comprehension of the English language.
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  20. #140
    Loves the Keto Rugger7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    I dunno. Perhaps I was just being optimistic in my thinking that you'd actually put up some concrete substance (results) instead of just raiding threads with your self-righteous clap trap.
    you've seen my results thread, you repped me for it back in the day. Don't talk to me about substance; Besides, I'm 5'10" tall 240 this morning and I can see my top 4 abs fairly well, bigger than I've ever been... believe what you want I'm going to keep working hard and eating whole foods.
    Cottage Cheese is a hell of a drug.
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  21. #141
    USAPL Nut Hugger ErickStevens's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rugger7 View Post
    you've seen my results thread, you repped me for it back in the day. Don't talk to me about substance; Besides, I'm 5'10" tall 240 this morning and I can see my top 4 abs fairly well, bigger than I've ever been... believe what you want I'm going to keep working hard and eating whole foods.
    Are you natural?
    "Nutrition for powerlifting: If you are serious about it, you will eat f*cking everything and get strong as $hit." - HamburgerTrain
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=163165741
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    Originally Posted by ErickStevens View Post
    Are you natural?
    indeed.

    374 days progress from back in the day: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5755411
    Cottage Cheese is a hell of a drug.
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    Despite our different dietary ideologies, I'm impressed. Reps on recharge.
    "Nutrition for powerlifting: If you are serious about it, you will eat f*cking everything and get strong as $hit." - HamburgerTrain
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=163165741
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    One arm DB rows of 72.5 lbs (2x8) while on a deficit, eating IIFYM style.
    Losing fat and retaining muscle. Veins in abs and biceps already.

    Sorry, I was never overweight, since I always practiced portion control and moderation, transformation from a skinny fat to athletic is never that impressive as someone dropping a bunch of weight.
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    Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    Bold: because under hypercaloric conditions, once the lean growth demands are met, the body has negligible use for that particular substrate (fat) if it's administered in surplus doses. Now, if your surplus is more subtle, there's less to worry about. If you dig back, you'll see that I somewhat disclaimed the hypothetical stuff with what I've seen in the real world, which is an isocaloric distribution of the macros (in a surplus) working just as well as a carb/protein-dominant surplus. There are plenty of topics such as this one that have not been systematically or objectively investigated. As far as this area goes, all we can really do is hypothesize and put ideas to trial.
    Thanks for the reply. I assume that for higher surpluses (>10-20%) it would be better to stick to carbohydrates as a main energy source (between them and fats), probably due to an extra glycogen refilling, but when surplus is, as mentioned, about 10-20%, fats contributing to that surplus won't hurt in any way.
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    Originally Posted by tomasbird View Post
    So just to be sure. Sources of the P/C/F are completely irrelevant as long as I reach the desired amount? No longer this bs clean eating brown rice and chicken? I can eat what-ever-fcuk I want (pizza, ice cream, hot dogs) as long as I stay in my calorie range and hit P+F?

    If so, thanks god I always though it would work like that .
    Yes, that is what the IIFYM philosophy states. However, as mentioned above, it will not be easy to find junk foods to satisfy your specific macro needs.

    Say you eat a pizza; your fat for the day is nearly taken care of, most likely. Now if you want more protein, as it won't be taken care of through the pizza, you're going to have to eat a primary protein source, which is not going to be junk.

    Try laying out a day of junk that supplies you with your set macro targets and see what happens.
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    Originally Posted by 2020Wellness View Post
    Yes, that is what the IIFYM philosophy states. However, as mentioned above, it will not be easy to find junk foods to satisfy your specific macro needs.

    Say you eat a pizza; your fat for the day is nearly taken care of, most likely. Now if you want more protein, as it won't be taken care of through the pizza, you're going to have to eat a primary protein source, which is not going to be junk.

    Try laying out a day of junk that supplies you with your set macro targets and see what happens.
    IIFYM is not all about macos you clearly don't have an understanding about it either. I suggest understanding the principles behind IIFYM before making any comments about it to anyone.
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    Glutes... they are back Cumulonimbus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 2020Wellness View Post
    Yes, that is what the IIFYM philosophy states. However, as mentioned above, it will not be easy to find junk foods to satisfy your specific macro needs.

    Say you eat a pizza; your fat for the day is nearly taken care of, most likely. Now if you want more protein, as it won't be taken care of through the pizza, you're going to have to eat a primary protein source, which is not going to be junk.

    Try laying out a day of junk that supplies you with your set macro targets and see what happens.
    Fitday... it isn't hard. That's why you plan ahead of time, you know, they lazy way.
    Just a weight lifter
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    Originally Posted by mannydawg View Post
    IIFYM is not all about macos you clearly don't have an understanding about it either. I suggest understanding the principles behind IIFYM before making any comments about it to anyone.
    I understand the philosophy as well as I can from reading the sticky and the single post links.

    The sticky's mainly mention macro numbers. The whole goal is to hit specific protein/fat macro numbers, then fill in the rest with whatever you'd like. Correct me if I'm wrong. That is primarily about macros, isn't it?

    Obviously it is going to be about total calorie intake as well, as that is the foundation for all planned dieting approaches, so its inherent with any approach.

    The concept is really nothing new, which is why I understand it, as I've been eating with purpose for nearly a decade now.
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    Originally Posted by Cumulonimbus View Post
    Fitday... it isn't hard. That's why you plan ahead of time, you know, they lazy way.
    You missed my point. I was actually defending the IIFYM concept, not sure what you're issue is.

    Get over the whole 'lazy' thing already. Moving on........
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