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  1. #1171
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    Originally Posted by SoccerAgain View Post
    To be clear, thanks for the comments about your long-term results smokinal.

    At this point it seems like it might be the type of activity that might be the best indicator of what type of surgery will work for a person. It seems reasonable that activities that cause repetitive movement of the groin and lower abdomen, hundreds or thousands of cycles, like a long run or a soccer game or a hike in the hills, could cause aggravation from the mesh, whereas 10-20 reps at a time over a small range of motion in the gym don't.

    Just trying to parse through the posts so far to see if there's something really useful, besides a list of people it "worked" for versus those it didn't.

    So, to add to my previous post about asking your surgeon if he can actually produce people who have had good results, make sure that you define what you expect to do afterward. Running and weight-lifting are not the same.
    You are right about asking your surgeon what you can be expected to do afterwards. Mine did give me some percentages of people who had minor pain to people who had no pain at all; can't remember the numbers but I was happy with them. He did say that if I kept lifting like I was, I would be in the ER within a couple of years with a big issue; so, why wait?
    And to clarify, I'm 48, just got back from vacation in Colorado where we hiked in Boulder and then in Colorado Springs for 6 days straight. I also run HIIT style (hard sprints, walk, sprint, walk etc...), I offroad mountain bike and of course, haven't stopped heavy bodybuilding including squats, lunges etc... In fact, I'm entered in my first show next month competing in mens physique.
    I'm not telling you all this to brag, just saying that some people do have good results and I'm the active person you described in an earlier post.
    I sincerely wish you the best in trying to get back to your normal activities!
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  2. #1172
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    Originally Posted by smokinal View Post
    You are right about asking your surgeon what you can be expected to do afterwards. Mine did give me some percentages of people who had minor pain to people who had no pain at all; can't remember the numbers but I was happy with them. He did say that if I kept lifting like I was, I would be in the ER within a couple of years with a big issue; so, why wait?
    And to clarify, I'm 48, just got back from vacation in Colorado where we hiked in Boulder and then in Colorado Springs for 6 days straight. I also run HIIT style (hard sprints, walk, sprint, walk etc...), I offroad mountain bike and of course, haven't stopped heavy bodybuilding including squats, lunges etc... In fact, I'm entered in my first show next month competing in mens physique.
    I'm not telling you all this to brag, just saying that some people do have good results and I'm the active person you described in an earlier post.
    I sincerely wish you the best in trying to get back to your normal activities!
    Thanks again. I wish I could get my surgeon and your surgeon together so that they can figure out what was different between materials and methods. There has to be something. I will pull together the facts you've supplied and send them to him just so that he can, hopefully, go find out what he's doing wrong.

    Your story is what I expected mine to be. But your story is also, probably, what keeps the surgeons using the same general method and materials. But there must be something in the details that is being missed. I don't think that my physiology is the reason. I've had plenty of injuries, never had a healing problem, don't get infections, have zero allergies. None of the things you might associate with a person who would have a sensitivity to polypropylene, which is a very benign plastic.

    At this point my recommendation to anyone anticipating surgery would be to use your surgeon.
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  3. #1173
    Registered User SoccerAgain's Avatar
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    Here's a link to the material you said you had used, way back n an early post. I had Bard's Soft mesh used, which is one step up in stiffness from their lightest material. It's made of polypropylene. Looks like yours is lightweight polyester, with a resorbable layer, which makes it even lighter after it bonds to the tissues. That's one difference. I think that heart of my problem might be that the mesh/tissue composite is stiff and boardy after it heals in. Running, biking, playing soccer jams that board in to surrounding tissues.

    www dot medtronic dot com/content/dam/covidien/library/us/en/product/hernia-repair/progrip-laparoscopic-self-fixating-mesh-info-sheet.pdf

    So, there's a vote for Medtronic's Progrip material, and another for smokinal's surgeon.

    Feels like I have 50 posts but apparently not.
    Last edited by SoccerAgain; 08-08-2017 at 08:33 PM.
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  4. #1174
    Registered User SoccerAgain's Avatar
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    And thanks to Foreigner also who had replied way back on 3 20 2016, #926. He had the same surgery and materials as you smokinal, apparently, you replied in #927. His surgeon would be another to consider. The weird thing about surgeons is that they're essentially mercenaries, of many who work for various hospitals and insurance plans. If they're in your plan and close, you can ask your doctor to refer you to them.

    I feel like I've finally found something to grab on to. Won't help me but might help someone else.

    Of course, now somebody will have a similar success story but with Bard Soft Mesh...
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  5. #1175
    Registered User Gforce009's Avatar
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    Hola all. love the thread and it's an important one. I'm a 58 yr old fairly fit male. Runner, boxing, weights is my usual workout. I read here 2 days ago to get info for my inguinal hernia left side op. Had the open cut mesh op yesterday in an australian public hospital. Fortunately free here, although i had to wait a couple of months. Post op observations. The op itself was about 45-60mins. I was wheeled in to theatre and put under full general anaesthetic. My next memory is waking up gently half an hour later in the recovery ward to a friendly supportive nurse. First rate friendly care from staff all round, from the cleaner who gave directions to where i needed to go, to surgeon. The nurses were all outstanding. Op was in the morning. They wanted me to stay overnight in recovery but i asked to go home. After dinner a few hours later, doc agreed. they threw in some panadol and endone/oxycontin style painkillers. Leg numb most of the first day and night so walking was tricky which is why they recommend a friend to collect you and stay with you. First night ok, but moving slow. No need for heavy painkillers, but i took panadol every 4 hrs. Slept ok. it's now the afternoon of Day 2. I'm feeling better and seem to be healing quickly given what i've read of others experiences. Still no need for heavy painkillers, but i'm popping panadols anyway. Pain is very mild, more discomfort and that's when i get up and move understandably. I've noticed even putting a pot on the stove to boil soup has given me a little pain because the core is activated. Anyway, doc says no running for 4 or was it 6 weeks. I def don't reckon i'll be touching any weights for 4 weeks. Follow up appt in 4 weeks. Walking is about as much as i'll do in this first week. See how it goes. Just want to say in August 2017, this kind of op wasn't a big deal and i'm not experiencing any bad pain, just discomfort obviously as we use our core for everything.

    Rick. How r u doing there mate? I hear your frustration! Sorry to read of all that. Hope ur feeling better mentally and kicking goals.

    P.S. Soccer again. I read some of ur posts. Early days here for me, but i will try to remember to post how i'm doing in a few months or so. Sorry i didn't ask what the mesh is made of or other details. They only do it one way here in the public system so i went with that. All the best to ya.

    Take care all. G
    Last edited by Gforce009; 08-17-2017 at 10:49 PM.
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  6. #1176
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    Thanks for the post Gforce. The fact that the public health system in Australia is still using the open, patch-the-hole-only method is interesting. Over here in the states, the laparoscopic high coverage mesh implantation is now cheaper than open surgery, and they're calling it the "standard of care". Bard calls their mesh materials the "gold standard". It has many aspects of a big sales/con job, to get everyone in the medical industry on the same page so that everyone is safe. When I was in school a classmate called it "staying with the herd". Don't try to excel but don't get left behind.

    Good luck. From what I've read here in this thread and elsewhere, the open surgery with a patch usually turns out well in the long run. More pain in the beginning and while healing but better results long-term. I wish I had taken my doctor's first referral instead of getting sucked in to the medical industry hype.

    IF you get a chance, maybe on your follow-up visit, it would be good to find out what material and system was used. There's a single layer method, behind the muscle wall, and a double layer method, both sides of the muscle, for bigger holes.
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  7. #1177
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    61yo, had a non-mesh repair (Bassini) on the right side back in 1992. Well, it's baaaack.

    Have an appointment with a surgeon Tuesday.

    Have been watching presentations intended for surgeons. This one was interesting given how fast he tells his patients to get back to full activity. I have noticed in this thread that many are saying their surgeon removed restrictions after x weeks but they doubled it just to be careful. Seems that may not be the best move.

    Says the more the patient does within reason within the first 48 hours, the less pain ultimately. Removes all restrictions after 48hr.

    Said that the patients who "babied" themselves had worse recoveries.



    Full presentation:

    Laparoscopic Inguinal Hernia Repair - YouTube
    Last edited by culican; 08-20-2017 at 05:14 PM.
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  8. #1178
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    Good luck. Thanks for the video link. I watched most of it, fast-forward style. Noticed that his survey didn't mention long-term pain, just physical problems and recurrence.. Also noticed that he assumed that patients did not come back to see him because they must have had a good outcome. That's how people think, not "they didn't come back to see me because my work caused problems".

    Anyway, try to get your surgeon to talk about a weightlifter or athlete or construction worker that he worked on who he actually talked to over at least one year later, who said, for sure, that he was as good or better than when he had the hernia, and that he would do it the same way all over again, no second thoughts. It's a very reasonable question. It's the true test. They should have people who are glad to talk about how good things are. Real-world testimonials. Thousands of hernia fixes performed every year and there's only a few out there.

    I was planning my words of praise while I was in the first few weeks of healing, but never got to the point that I could use them.

    Seriously, good luck. And don't be afraid of offending a surgeon. A huge part of their job is to answer questions and if they don't have the answers, that's on them. Even in the video the surgeon talks about informing his patients and letting them make a choice. Even though they don't really know what he's talking about.
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  9. #1179
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    I had a strange sensation doing decline crunches today and now I've convinced myself it's a hernia right below and to the side of my abdomen. Is that something I'd be able to see? I'm very lean and have visible abs/lots of stomach vascularity.
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  10. #1180
    Registered User SoccerAgain's Avatar
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    There are drawings and pictures around the internet showing where direct inguinal hernias form, and other types. Mine looked like a small peaked bump, when I was standing, that disappeared when I laid on my back. As it got bigger the bump got broader and the area got tender.
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  11. #1181
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    Originally Posted by linksjack View Post
    6 month after surgery now: Feeling pretty much normal most of the time. Still have an occasional pinching feeling (maybe once or twice a week), but nothing painful. Overall very happy with the outcome (open surgery with mesh and fibrin glue).
    10 month after open surgery with mesh.

    11 weeks ago I tried to pull a root out of the ground, which was too much, as it turned out. I felt pain for the first time since the surgery when doing so. The pain wasn't bad, but still unsettling. Was worried I had a recurrence, but no lumb was visible. I decided to wait a few days, to see if the pain goes away, before seeing a doctor.

    After a few days, the pain slowly subsided. 2 weeks later it was gone.

    Not sure what happened. Since the mesh itself has a tensile strength of 47 N/cm it shouldn't be possible to tear. So maybe I tore some scar tissue or pinched a nerve or something. Whatever the reason: I'm posting this, so everybody is aware that even after a few month without any problems, one should be alert on how to stress the inguinal region. While I had no problems lifting heavy weights, one bad move was enough to at least temporarily bring back problems.
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  12. #1182
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    Just woke up in the recovery room ~1:30pm earlier today after a TEP laparoscopic inguinal hernia repair. Nurse kept asking if I was in pain. I said "No, just sore. Feels like I did too many situps." She seemed surprised and was also surprised when I was able to get up, stand straight up, and walk fine. Went home 30 min later and pain/soreness is about the same as I type this. Filled the pain pill script on the way home but am starting to think I won't need to take any.

    Will post to this thread from time to time updating my recovery.
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  13. #1183
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    I have found a really small bump at inguinal area. I'm not sure if it's hernia or not.
    1. It's barely 1cm long and 0.5cm wide.
    2. It can only be observed under special lighting.
    3. There is no pain no matter how much I press it.
    4. It doesn't go in when I press it. It's very meaty to touch.
    5. I can feel pulse when I touch it. Isn't hernia caused by intestine protruding outside abs mesh? Why should they be pulsating like an artery/vein?
    6. I'm on keto diet and have shed quite a bit of fat in last couple of months. I'm seeing many body details first time in my life. That crease at inguinal area started to show last month.
    7. I observed this bump last monday, it could have been present there from a long time. On that day, I did very light weight overhead squat (60 lb max) and front squat (120 lb max), as I'm learning these squats. My max back squat is 250lb x 10, which I didn't do that day.

    What do you guys think? Is some sort of pain must for a hernia?

    I could have posted a picture but it's difficult to get it on camera.
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  14. #1184
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    Hernia or not?

    Hi
    I've been physically active for a long time and doing serious bodybuilding for past 9 months now, though I've been a casual gym rat for past 2-3 years. Was planning an iron man soon too. I am 41 yrs male.

    Just yesterday I noticed a slight pain in lower left groin area which seemed to ease after I peed.

    However I notice a swelling near the area which persists even now. It seems to be from the iguinal area. It seems springy to the touch and there is no pain. It's 4-5cms long and arnd 2cms wide tapering, not just a bump.

    I showed to a doc who just gave an antibiotic+acidity + muscle relaxant meds for 5 days and said he will see after that.

    Any advice guys?

    Worried as I've been working real hard to get in shape.
    Last edited by temerity76; 09-05-2017 at 08:27 AM.
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  15. #1185
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    Does it go away when you lay down but come back when you stand up? That's one sign.

    Did you tell the doctor what you had been doing? Did you mention a hernia as a possibility? If you did, and he did not do the very simple test for a hernia you should probably find a better doctor. The simple one-handed test for a hernia has been around for many many years and is performed by doctors doing physical exams on a regular basis.

    I am surprised that he gave you all of the meds that he did. Kind of shocking really, but there are bad doctors out there. Who would do that for a simple sore spot on the abdomen? Especially the antibiotics since over-prescription of antibiotics is a big problem. I'd get a second opinion myself.

    "I showed to a doc who just gave an antibiotic+acidity + muscle relaxant meds for 5 days and said he will see after that."
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  16. #1186
    Registered User temerity76's Avatar
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    Yes it goes away when I lie down and comes back on standing. I told him I doubt it's a hernia but he just said we will diagnose next week.
    He pressed around the area.

    I'll be getting a second opinion today.
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  17. #1187
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    he might have thought the issue is about lymph node swelling.
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    @lockhrt999 No, we don't need pain in initial stages of hernia. Show yourself to a hernia specialist, only way to know for certain.
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    Registered User temerity76's Avatar
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    Feeling really depressed and out. I've worked really hard over the past year to get in the shape I was before this came up. I got my body fat down from 35 to 12% and was probably in the best physical condition in all my 41 years of existance. All to waste.
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  20. #1190
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    I don't know if this is the right place to post about this, because I don't have an inguinal hernia, but my doc said I might be at risk of developing one and I'm not sure how to approach this.

    Here's the whole story...

    A couple weeks ago I had a colonoscopy. Good news, I don't have cancer. Yay! In fact they didn't really find anything at all. However, the doctor struggled to complete the procedure (became too tight for the tube to continue), reached the conclusion my bowels are abnormally lowered, and therefore I might be at risk of developing an inguinal hernia. Then, in my sleepy dazed mode right after the procedure, the conversation went about like this:

    Doctor - "to avoid developing the hernia, you cannot pick up any heavy weights"
    Me - "does this mean I need to stop going to the gym?"
    Doctor - "oh no, not at all, you just cannot lift weights. Maybe with one of those belts... actually no, I don't want you to lift any weights"
    Me - "but that's kinda what I like to do. Couldn't I just avoid squats and all the heavier compound exercises?"
    Doctor - "you can do squats, but you can't put any weights on you, do air squats"
    Nurse - "you don't need to completely stop, you can still do arms"

    And that's the whole extent of medical advice I have. Great.

    But I'm taking the advice seriously, I don't want to be the idiot that ignores medical advice and then gets a nasty painful injury. However, I'm a bit confused how to best optimize this situation? I'd hate to have to just completely abandon weightlifting for the rest of my life (I'm still 31). For the past few years it's been the most rewarding thing I do, in terms of mental health (have recurrent problems with depression), confidence and self-esteem (badly needed) and posture (work in a computer all day). I guess I could do more cardio but I've tried several things and have yet to find a cardio form that I enjoy and can stick to.

    So this Monday I went to do the gym and did this. Trying to do isolation movements, focusing on lower weights higher reps, taking it easy without pushing to failure, and trying to avoid as much as possible to put any strain on the abs whatsoever:

    - bicep curls
    - tricep extension
    - shoulders: dumbbell scaption and deltoid raise
    - chest butterfly machine
    - walking lunges with dumbbells
    - single-leg leg press machine (this was an idea from a PT friend of mine)

    My questions are:

    - The back is really badly missing from this half-arsed workout. Is there anything I could do for back? I used to do a ton of rows but think that would be a bad idea.

    - I think (was dozed off!) the doc told me I shouldn't do bench press. Would doing it in a smith machine protect me enough from putting any strain on the abs?

    - Are abs a completely off-limits area? Any exercises that are veeeery gentle in the area and could help merely strenghten it instead of straining it?

    - Can I add bodyweight exercises? I'm guessing not really as they're typically designed to put as much strain of the body weight itself as possible?

    - What can I add or do AT ALL, really?
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  21. #1191
    Registered User culican's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by temerity76 View Post
    Feeling really depressed and out. I've worked really hard over the past year to get in the shape I was before this came up. I got my body fat down from 35 to 12% and was probably in the best physical condition in all my 41 years of existance. All to waste.
    If it goes away when you lay down, it most likely is a hernia.

    Don't be depressed, I had mine repaired 25 years ago with the Bassini method (prone to 20% recurrence) and the recovery time for that was 6 weeks. Even after six weeks you don't lose as much as you think.

    I actually think it recurred a few years ago but I was in denial. When It got the size of half of a hard boiled egg, I had to come to terms with the fact that it had returned.

    My recovery time right now is to be 4 weeks (surgery was laparoscopic instead of open like the old one). I am one week in now and have three to go. I have gone to the gym the last two days for cardio only, and that has been mentally helpful. Even though I am 25 years older I am recovering much faster from this surgery.

    Feel free to ask any questions.
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  22. #1192
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    Originally Posted by noikeee View Post
    - What can I add or do AT ALL, really?
    I am dead serious, see another doctor.

    Many hernias (indirect) are congenital but don't develop until later in life. Direct ones go through a weakness in wall of the inguinal canal but I know as many people who have gotten them straining while on the toilet as have gotten them from lifting weights.
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    @temerity76

    Thanks for the reply, I'll see a doctor soon.
    I have a question. Should hernia pulsate like a vain? Because I can comfortably measure my heart rate by just touching the bump.
    Last edited by lockhrt999; 09-07-2017 at 01:50 AM.
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    Won't lifting heavy again after surgery, even after precautions and slow progress, increase chance of relapse or getting one on other side?
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    Originally Posted by temerity76 View Post
    Won't lifting heavy again after surgery, even after precautions and slow progress, increase chance of relapse or getting one on other side?
    Not necessarily. The one I had repaired on the right side in 1992 came back because it was a type of repair prone to recurrences. (The newer techniques have a much lower recurrence rate.) Even so, the surgeon did me a big favor then. At my final visit six weeks after the surgery he examined me and said, "No restrictions." I said, "What about...?" and he cut me off before I could finish and said again, "No restrictions!". Then I asked, "But what if it comes back?" He looked irritated at that point and quite emphatically said, "If it comes back, it comes back and we will fix it again, I said NO RESTRICTIONS." I never worried about it after that.

    Was lifting the cause if it coming back? I'll never know for sure, and no doctor can say for sure. Like I pointed out above in another post, many times hernias manifest themselves when a guy is bearing down to take a dump. The intra-abdominal pressures are higher then than in a deadlift if a guy is really pushing. Don't believe me, research how many people are found dead of a heart attack or stroke sitting on the toilet.

    This paper has an interesting statement, "Early mobilization and return to normal, unrestricted physical activities and hard work in the immediate postoperative period do not cause recurrences. On the contrary, persons with sedentary occupations suffer double the number of recurrences as those performing heavy manual labor."

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...43919113000873

    As far as hernias on the other side go: Indirect hernias are congenital although they may take decades to manifest themselves. If you have one on one side you may already have one on the other side.

    I never had a visible hernia on my left side (did have a *little* discomfort sometimes) but I discussed it with the surgeon that if he found one on the left when he was inside with his laparoscope he would fix it. Guess what?, he found one on the left side and fixed it too.

    I didn't go to this guy (in another state) but I do like his recovery chart:

    After 3 weeks (starting on day 22 post op):"Patients can return to all athletic activities including contact sports, heavy lifting
    (squats, deadlifts, bench press, etc), as well as training and competitions."

    http://californiaherniaspecialists.c...ecovery-chart/

    Sure, some docs say 4 weeks, some say 2 weeks, some say 2 days (not a typo). The point is, you can return, and it doesn't take forever. Obviously, your surgeon will know best regarding your exact situation.
    Last edited by culican; 09-07-2017 at 06:24 AM.
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    Thanks culican! That was pretty detailed, but it still doesn't uplift my mood as I have to stop lifting till I get this fixed.
    Update: I just got a pelvic USG done and they confirmed its an inguinal hernia.
    To quote report " There is a small developing inguinal hernia seen on left side, more after increasing intraabdominal pressure. Hernia sac mainly contains omentum."

    I'll be showing to a surgeon soon and will update. What restrictions do I need to follow until this is repaired? Weight lifting is out for sure, what about jogging/games like cricket?

    Bummed with the diagnose.
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    Originally Posted by temerity76 View Post
    Thanks culican! That was pretty detailed, but it still doesn't uplift my mood as I have to stop lifting till I get this fixed.
    Update: I just got a pelvic USG done and they confirmed its an inguinal hernia.
    To quote report " There is a small developing inguinal hernia seen on left side, more after increasing intraabdominal pressure. Hernia sac mainly contains omentum."

    I'll be showing to a surgeon soon and will update. What restrictions do I need to follow until this is repaired? Weight lifting is out for sure, what about jogging/games like cricket?

    Bummed with the diagnose.
    I continued to lift until a few days before my surgery, both last week and 25 years ago. It actually bothered me more during my daily activities (soreness/heaviness sensation) than it did while lifting (where it didn't bother me at all).
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  28. #1198
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    Originally Posted by noikeee View Post
    However, the doctor struggled to complete the procedure (became too tight for the tube to continue), reached the conclusion my bowels are abnormally lowered, and therefore I might be at risk of developing an inguinal hernia.
    This statement sounds absurd. Not only would I find another doctor, I would never see this doctor again. Pass on what he said to your primary physician also, so that they can avoid him. Maybe even report him for quackery.
    Last edited by SoccerAgain; 09-07-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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    Originally Posted by temerity76 View Post
    I'll be showing to a surgeon soon and will update. What restrictions do I need to follow until this is repaired? Weight lifting is out for sure, what about jogging/games like cricket?
    (
    I would just make sure that you're in complete control of your actions and aware of what's happening at the hernia site. I continued to play soccer with mine, and in the heat of battle it grew and more material got pushed through. But people live for many years with hernias, doing less extreme activities. You know exactly how big yours is and what it feels like, so should be aware of when it's stressed.
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    Originally Posted by SoccerAgain View Post
    This statement sounds absurd. Not only would I find another doctor, I would never see this doctor again. Pass on what he said to your primary physician also, so that they can avoid him. Maybe even report him for quackery.
    I agree. I had a colonoscopy two months ago, and the doctor never noticed I had a hernia. I mentioned that to the surgeon who said, "There is no way they could tell when doing a colonsocopy." So if they can't tell when you *have* one, how can they tell when you are only prone to one?

    That's why I also said to get a different doctor.
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