Complex vs Simple Carbs

[rob2093124]

Hey guys. Just wanted to express my thoughts and see how you guys felt.

First off, there's been a lot of talk about whether simple carbs or complex carbs should be eaten. My answer to this is always:

"All carbs, complex or simple, ultimately get turned into glucose. And glucose is ultimately used for muscle/liver glycogen stores first, then stored as fat."

I don't carb up, but i've noticed that individuals who carb up using "dirty" carbs (usually referring to simple carbs) actually have felt better and were relieved of any bloating and discomfort faster. Looking back at the quote I usually ask everyone, why are simple carbs considered "dirty carbs". They all turn into glucose in the end. The only difference is that complex carbs contain fiber and other micro nutrients. Since we are using carbs for a glycogen replenish, why go with a slow-digesting carb that will take another day or two to digest when we are out of the carb up period? We are getting fiber and other nutrients from other sources on this diet... so why are you guys choosing complex over simple most the time?

EDIT: I'm basically trying to state that simple carbs aren't really "dirty" carbs. And those who call them "dirty", why do you?

From my understanding, simple carbs will digest and be stored in muscle glycogen fast enough to prevent the bloating/discomfort you have the following day or two. I also think some complex carbs won't cause this, but most carbs should come from simple.

Do you agree or am I missing something?

[sizzix]

Hey guys. Just wanted to express my thoughts and see how you guys felt.

First off, there's been a lot of talk about whether simple carbs or complex carbs should be eaten. My answer to this is always:

"All carbs, complex or simple, ultimately get turned into glucose. And glucose is ultimately used for muscle/liver glycogen stores first, then stored as fat."

I don't carb up, but i've noticed that individuals who carb up using "dirty" carbs (usually referring to simple carbs" actually have felt better and were relieved of any bloating and discomfort faster. Looking back at the quote I usually tell everyone, why are simple carbs considered "dirty carbs". They all turn into glucose in the end. The only difference is that complex carbs contain fiber and other micro nutrients. Since we are using carbs for a glycogen replenish, why go with a slow-digesting carb that will take another day or two to digest when we are out of the carb up period? We are getting fiber and other nutrients from other sources on this diet... so why are you guys choosing complex over simple most the time?

From my understanding, simple carbs will digest and be stored in muscle glycogen fast enough to prevent the bloating/discomfort you have the following day or two. I also think some complex carbs won't cause this, but most carbs should come from simple.

Do you agree or am I missing something?

that's a good question and i think it's related to the "whoosh" which a lot of people experience but i don't think anyone has figured out why it happens yet.... but there is a VERY detailed thread here about water content and fat loss http://bit.ly/igKNiq

and here's some info on the "whoosh" (don't be fooled by the ridiculous name) http://bit.ly/lJZws

[rob2093124]

that's a good question and i think it's related to the "whoosh" which a lot of people experience but i don't think anyone has figured out why it happens yet.... but there is a VERY detailed thread here about water content and fat loss http://bit.ly/igKNiq

and here's some info on the "whoosh" (don't be fooled by the ridiculous name) http://bit.ly/lJZws

thanks for the links. i believe the bloating is definitely caused my a retention in water and also the fact that complex carbs digest slowly, so they are in your system longer, causing increased duration of discomfort.

[xgwsx]

x2 id like to know as well

[rob2093124]

x2 id like to know as well

I'm kinda asking rhetorical questions based on the details in the post. lol. but i feel im going about it with the right thinking, but i don't do carbups, so i was waiting on people who do carbups with simple carbs instead to add their experience.

[azziecole]

Yea, I do my carb ups with whatever carbs I'm in the mood for. I tend to have the same view on carbs...a carb is a carb is a carb. Like you said, they are all going to refill glycogen. All of my carb ups have been mostly simple carbs and I don't have many problems with uncomfortable bloating. I mean, some bloating is to be expected with the increased water retention and the sheer number of carbs your eating, but that feeling goes away in an hour or so and never lasts days like some accounts I've heard.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents on carb ups.

[Ion26]

If you are taking a diuretic daily (lots of fat burners have a diuretic complex), will this negate the water retention on carb ups

[rob2093124]

If you are taking a diuretic daily (lots of fat burners have a diuretic complex), will this negate the water retention on carb ups

i think it could negate some... but not all.

[alex2363]

that's a good question and i think it's related to the "whoosh" which a lot of people experience but i don't think anyone has figured out why it happens yet.... but there is a VERY detailed thread here about water content and fat loss http://bit.ly/igKNiq

and here's some info on the "whoosh" (don't be fooled by the ridiculous name) http://bit.ly/lJZws

nice limks, they are from lyle mcdonald's site

[Rugger7]

why in the world do you not carb up? Do you lift? Are you trying to lose your muscle mass?

Basically, not carbing up only makes sense for the morbidly obese and the extremely sedentary. If whether you are trying to bulk or cut, assuming you lift and are not morbidly obese, it is a hormonal reset that plays to your advantage. Leptin, test, gh, igf, and glycogen are all restored to higher levels after the refeed. All of which plays towards your goals whether they are getting bigger or leaner or both. I have been doing this diet for over 10 years, if there is anything I can tell you I know for certain it is carb ups are a good thing. I used to push my carb-up days further and further apart.. 21 days or even a month or more. Weight loss would stall, lifts would suffer, started moving them to 14 days.. got better.. eventually started going with 7 - 10 days.. got even better... and yes I do mean if you are cutting you will lose more weight carbing up 3-4 times per month than 1 time, this is assuming your carb-up is not completely ridiculous or extended. Mine are usually ridiculous but for a very short timeframe.

[BlueRev]

why in the world do you not carb up? Do you lift? Are you trying to lose your muscle mass?

Basically, not carbing up only makes sense for the morbidly obese and the extremely sedentary. If whether you are trying to bulk or cut, assuming you lift and are not morbidly obese, it is a hormonal reset that plays to your advantage. Leptin, test, gh, igf, and glycogen are all restored to higher levels after the refeed. All of which plays towards your goals whether they are getting bigger or leaner or both. I have been doing this diet for over 10 years, if there is anything I can tell you I know for certain it is carb ups are a good thing. I used to push my carb-up days further and further apart.. 21 days or even a month or more. Weight loss would stall, lifts would suffer, started moving them to 14 days.. got better.. eventually started going with 7 - 10 days.. got even better... and yes I do mean if you are cutting you will lose more weight carbing up 3-4 times per month than 1 time, this is assuming your carb-up is not completely ridiculous or extended. Mine are usually ridiculous but for a very short timeframe.

I support this answer 100%
Why in the hell do not you not have rep?
+rep

[Ion26]

why in the world do you not carb up? Do you lift? Are you trying to lose your muscle mass?

Basically, not carbing up only makes sense for the morbidly obese and the extremely sedentary. If whether you are trying to bulk or cut, assuming you lift and are not morbidly obese, it is a hormonal reset that plays to your advantage. Leptin, test, gh, igf, and glycogen are all restored to higher levels after the refeed. All of which plays towards your goals whether they are getting bigger or leaner or both. I have been doing this diet for over 10 years, if there is anything I can tell you I know for certain it is carb ups are a good thing. I used to push my carb-up days further and further apart.. 21 days or even a month or more. Weight loss would stall, lifts would suffer, started moving them to 14 days.. got better.. eventually started going with 7 - 10 days.. got even better... and yes I do mean if you are cutting you will lose more weight carbing up 3-4 times per month than 1 time, this is assuming your carb-up is not completely ridiculous or extended. Mine are usually ridiculous but for a very short timeframe.

So on the carb up would you suggest to go 60C/35P/5F?

[angelmotorsport]

why in the world do you not carb up? Do you lift? Are you trying to lose your muscle mass?

Basically, not carbing up only makes sense for the morbidly obese and the extremely sedentary. If whether you are trying to bulk or cut, assuming you lift and are not morbidly obese, it is a hormonal reset that plays to your advantage. Leptin, test, gh, igf, and glycogen are all restored to higher levels after the refeed. All of which plays towards your goals whether they are getting bigger or leaner or both. I have been doing this diet for over 10 years, if there is anything I can tell you I know for certain it is carb ups are a good thing. I used to push my carb-up days further and further apart.. 21 days or even a month or more. Weight loss would stall, lifts would suffer, started moving them to 14 days.. got better.. eventually started going with 7 - 10 days.. got even better... and yes I do mean if you are cutting you will lose more weight carbing up 3-4 times per month than 1 time, this is assuming your carb-up is not completely ridiculous or extended. Mine are usually ridiculous but for a very short timeframe.

Repped as well.

People not doing carbup are missing out on a ton of advantages. Embrace the carbup.

[ananf72]

This may be way off topic or maybe interesting. But I've wondered about the same thing many times. Recently, I ran across a discussion that started off as complex vs simple carbs, on carb up day, debate (anabolicminds I think). One of the guys who seemed quite knowledgeable, stated that the type of carb a person should consume depended on if they were a fast oxidizer, slow oxidizer or balanced. He went on to say that a person's success on keto may depend on this factor. So, out of curiosity, I've been trying to figure this out. I don't have enough posts to link so I'll pm an article to you for your opinion.

[Rugger7]

I support this answer 100%
Why in the hell do not you not have rep?
+rep

Alan Aragon & the IIFYM crew neg me everytime I spread the good word of common sense in nutrition (i.e. food choices & micros matter). I'm at like -41,000+ right now, hahaha.. I really don't care.

[rob2093124]

why in the world do you not carb up? Do you lift? Are you trying to lose your muscle mass?

Basically, not carbing up only makes sense for the morbidly obese and the extremely sedentary. If whether you are trying to bulk or cut, assuming you lift and are not morbidly obese, it is a hormonal reset that plays to your advantage. Leptin, test, gh, igf, and glycogen are all restored to higher levels after the refeed. All of which plays towards your goals whether they are getting bigger or leaner or both. I have been doing this diet for over 10 years, if there is anything I can tell you I know for certain it is carb ups are a good thing. I used to push my carb-up days further and further apart.. 21 days or even a month or more. Weight loss would stall, lifts would suffer, started moving them to 14 days.. got better.. eventually started going with 7 - 10 days.. got even better... and yes I do mean if you are cutting you will lose more weight carbing up 3-4 times per month than 1 time, this is assuming your carb-up is not completely ridiculous or extended. Mine are usually ridiculous but for a very short timeframe.

I do TKD... once in a while ill eat an extra meal with carbs if i feel i need it

[rob2093124]

I'm moreso talking about those people that go overboard on carbups, when they don't actually do a significant amount of cardio/weight lifting. hell yea i eat carbs. i know they restore glycogen which is used during lifting. not sure why you think i don't.

[angelmotorsport]

ahh TKD, makes more sense. I still carbup when on TKD

[Rugger7]

I'm moreso talking about those people that go overboard on carbups, when they don't actually do a significant amount of cardio/weight lifting. hell yea i eat carbs. i know they restore glycogen which is used during lifting. not sure why you think i don't.

I thought you didn't b/c you said you didn't do carb-ups.. sometimes I forget TKD people even exist... I only tried it for about a week, it kind of ****s with my head like.. okay I'm going to eat carbs now.. and now.. and then a few hours later back to fats.. I never really gave it a fair chance to make its case, but ckd has always kicked ass imo.

[justinnnnn]

I just wanted to add this.


I've been on keto for 2.5 months.

My last 2 carb ups included oats.

Those 2 weeks have been my worst weeks on keto speaking in terms of progress.

simple carbs ftw.

[rob2093124]

I've read in many places that High GI carbs are good when you first start the carb up, then lower GI carbs for the rest of the carb up. I would personally stick to High GI the entire time

[rob2093124]

I thought you didn't b/c you said you didn't do carb-ups.. sometimes I forget TKD people even exist... I only tried it for about a week, it kind of ****s with my head like.. okay I'm going to eat carbs now.. and now.. and then a few hours later back to fats.. I never really gave it a fair chance to make its case, but ckd has always kicked ass imo.

i only take dextrose right after my workouts. no preworkout carbs. i think dextrose tends to go straight to muscle glycogen stores, instead of refilling some liver glycogen.

[LiamGTR91]

Shouldn't the simple/complex carb debate focus on your blood sugar/glucose levels? I.e. getting a massive spike then big drop, compared to complex keeping your glucose levels even

[DustyChicago]

Rugger, whats your opinion on PWO carbs on a CKD while doing a serious cut? Necessary for sustained workout intensity?

[rob2093124]

Rugger, whats your opinion on PWO carbs on a CKD while doing a serious cut? Necessary for sustained workout intensity?

should be fine as long as you regulate your carbups. if you take a little bit of carbs PWO, you still may need a carbup at some point.

otherwise, if you take a good amount say 70-90g PWO, its a TKD. I take about 60g dextrose after workouts and intensity is sustained with no carb ups. occasionally i treat myself to a carb meal to restore more glycogen, just to make sure.

[rob2093124]

Shouldn't the simple/complex carb debate focus on your blood sugar/glucose levels? I.e. getting a massive spike then big drop, compared to complex keeping your glucose levels even

you're only eating this way for a day, and the purpose is to restore glycogen, so it doesn't matter really. but, High GI digests faster, thus leaving you bloated for a shorter period of time.

[DustyChicago]

I was adding about 10-15 g of Vitarago after my workouts during my recomp/bulk, but I stopped this week when I started my cut... but my workout yesterday, which was the same as my workout monday, was less intense, so I'm wondering what I can do to sustain better intensity.

[Cumulonimbus]

ITT: simple vs complex doesn't frigging matter

You got an IV drip getting 300g glucose, you're in a hypercaloric and sedentary for 24+ hours?

[rob2093124]

I was adding about 10-15 g of Vitarago after my workouts during my recomp/bulk, but I stopped this week when I started my cut... but my workout yesterday, which was the same as my workout monday, was less intense, so I'm wondering what I can do to sustain better intensity.

add it back in. if anything, its only 40-60 calories. and carbs will go to muscle glycogen, so i would keep the 10-15g

[rob2093124]

ITT: simple vs complex doesn't frigging matter

You got an IV drip getting 300g glucose, you're in a hypercaloric and sedentary for 24+ hours?

i agree that simple and complex both end up doing the same thing in the end, so it doesn't matter. but as far as comfortability, when i stuck to high GI, i felt better, faster. i'm basing this off my experience and the experience of many other on a keto diet.

both will end up restoring glycogen, then the excess will be used as fuel.