Identify Dumbbell (Real Ivanko?)

[elgreek84]

Hi, so I was looking at the dumbbell set I bought about a month or two ago and I was looking at my dumbbells and noticed my 100lb dumbbell set used different weight plates. First of all, it's a different color than the other dumbbells I have, secondly it uses different plates (look at the "10" marking on the 100lbs vs. the other plates - see attached) Third, it says 100lbs but it actually weighs about 105lbs. Do you think it's a real Ivanko? It doesn't matter, really, I was just wondering, I think it actually looks cool how it is (black plates with the silver end plate).

[donforeman]

I have a set that looks like the rest of your db's. Green-gray with chips and rust! Ivanko does have black plates too. In a few weeks if they aren't gone (I have two sets of Db's). I will probably start bead blasting mine and painting the weight black. The color change is just because I done ever think I could color match the green, grey hammer tone color

[elgreek84]

Here are the rest of the dbs.
But I have some suspicions about my 100lb (105lb set). I am definitely too lazy to repaint my set, plus I don't mind the rust.

[dumb.bell]

I'm guessing that the 100s are Invako, but not part of the original set. Somebody probably just bought the parts from Ivanko and built the 100s to replace the missing 100s. I'd just pm Vinko (IvankoBarbellCo) and I'm sure he can tell you. In fact, he will likely see the title and answer you in this thread in a day or two.

[elgreek84]

I'm guessing that the 100s are Invako, but not part of the original set. Somebody probably just bought the parts from Ivanko and built the 100s to replace the missing 100s. I'd just pm Vinko (IvankoBarbellCo) and I'm sure he can tell you. In fact, he will likely see the title and answer you in this thread in a day or two.

Cool, we'll see if he responds. I figure someone just rebuilt the 100's (incorrectly - should've used 7.5lb plates as fifth plate)

[Shoua]

This is something that I've wondered myself. I'm not too familiar with their standard plates. Does Ivanko's standard plates also have their name on it (not including the end caps) or would it just look like any other standard plates?

[dumb.bell]

Cool, we'll see if he responds. I figure someone just rebuilt the 100's (incorrectly - should've used 7.5lb plates as fifth plate)

I don't know about Ivanko sets, but some prostyle sets disregard the weight of the handles and end caps, making every dumbbell in the set weigh a little more than the stated weight (the larger the dumbbell, the further off it will be - the set I have is like that).

[donforeman]

This is something that I've wondered myself. I'm not too familiar with their standard plates. Does Ivanko's standard plates also have their name on it (not including the end caps) or would it just look like any other standard plates?

I took apart a few to start cleaning them up and repainting them.
No Id at all on the dumbbell plates. They do have a machined center for 1-1/16" handles but so do the troy plated dumbbells I have. The plates how ever are slightly different castings. Its pretty easy to tell them apart.

[IvankoBarbellCo]

I don't know about Ivanko sets, but some prostyle sets disregard the weight of the handles and end caps, making every dumbbell in the set weigh a little more than the stated weight (the larger the dumbbell, the further off it will be - the set I have is like that).

Yes, old school way is to disregard handles. At that time, no one was using end plates. As far as I know, we were among the first. There might have been earlier examples, but I don't know who they are. (Though it'd be interesting to find out -- I think there were examples for welded dumbbells). By the time end plates became more common, more guys were counting all components for the fixed dumbbells when making up the weight. I think some rubber dumbbell makers still don't count handles though. It gets trickier when you do a rubber dumbbell, because you want to keep the sizes consistent.

The plates on the left & in the middle are RM (machined) with steel end plates (EP-1.5). The ones on the right don't look like our plates, but I can't tell for certain without more angles. The handles look like ours -- you can tell from the custom bolt, which as far as I know, no one has copied yet. The end plates are ductile cast-iron (EP-1.25).

Also: we do make a black plate (R2B) and only RM plates have our name on it. It's around the circumference of the plate hole.

Thanks,

Vinko:

PS. Hope no one minds me plugging our recent article on what makes a good fixed dumbbell It's somewhat relevant to the discussion.

http://www.ivankobarbell.com/press/w...mbbell_pdf.pdf

[Wildtim]

PS. Hope no one minds me plugging our recent article on what makes a good fixed dumbbell It's somewhat relevant to the discussion.

http://www.ivankobarbell.com/press/w...mbbell_pdf.pdf

Why when I read these do I usually find myself both wanting the equipment and thinking that this should just be common sense?


Interesting about counting the ends and handles. I've never done this with any of my Standard sized barbell stuff. For instance in a circuit I'm doing now my DB French press is 40 pounds, while my BB curl right after it is only 30. Kinda makes my bi's look amazingly weak compared to my tris. But if I added the bars and collars I'm french pressing about 48 and then then curling right around 50, much more balanced. Oh well since I'm old fashioned I'll just keep doing it the old fashioned way especially since its a lot easier to load the bars that way.

[donforeman]

FYI If you do have to take them apart for some reason be prepared for work! They are loctited in place and it takes heat to soften and its still tough. After the heat then you need a quality Allen bit, soft jawed vise so not to mess up the handles, and a breaker bar. A torch with map gas works for heat. There was all sorts of crud wedged down there on mine.

[Giovanni24]

I thought this thread was going to ask about some Ivanko dumbbells I saw pop up on CL yesterday. $150 for the rack, don't know much information though. I'm guessing these are the "fake Ivankos from Costco" made by Impex based on other threads.

http://redding.craigslist.org/spo/2209736317.html

[Shoua]

Good history recap Vinko. Before I realized this, I always wondered why the prostyle dumbbells at Gold's was heavier than the rubber coated dumbbells at other gyms even though they were labeled as being the same weight.

[Sandrathegreat]

yeah they look real to me, very reminisent of the old style ivanko's, i know this because the gym where i powerlifted in the past had the exact ones.

[donforeman]

you can tell from the custom bolt, which as far as I know, no one has copied yet.

Whats custom about it? Is it just the hex size? This is where not being able to post pictures is a disadvantage!

I bought a lot of very abused dumbbells used a while back.

In that lot were 30lb-90lb Ivanko in ten pound increments- they are really old and a bear to get apart.

Then someone made up the fives (65, 75, 85, 95, then 100 and 115) in troy plates and generic handles. At least I think they are troy plates. I found some tiny silver stickers on some of the plates I took apart. They were not that readable.

These plates have a machined center just like the Ivankos. Same dimensions too. The Casting is different though.
These have no loctite on the threads and can be taken apart in a minute or two.
These also had strange cast iron end caps that looked more for welded db's

Finally the 120-140 were all made up of York plates and generic handles.

All handles are 1-1/16th! the generic handles vary a lot even on the same handle , but 1.06 is about average.

Ok now to the point. The Ivanko handles clearly survived better than the others.

All the weight and dumbbells where trashed. but there were some clear differences. The Ivankos held up pretty well considering... the handles were rusty but they were not bent. The chrome was not bubbling or as rusty as the generics. Big difference in knurling and general machine work too. all the sharp edges on the Ivanko handles have been smoothed. The generic handles sharp edges dug out the plates sides a bit over time. Some of the Generic handles have a U shaped bow in them. They bent even in the lighter 75 lb range. They all are 1-1/16th so it must be cheap steel.

The weights all fared about the same. They are all chipped and rusty - no mater who made them The plain black is easier to strip and repaint than the heavy hammer finish.

I took a few apart and soaked them in vinegar to remove the bad rust. Its sort of a lost cause,the handles are going to need replaced. One thing I did notice though was the bolts were threaded the same! The hex size in the end is not even close but the threading is exactly the same. I went out to the garage again just to make sure, but I took the Ivanko bolt and it threaded right into the generic handle. Holding the bolts side by side the peaks and valleys of the thread do line up. So the thread pitch appears to be the same.

Just curious about the threading being the same after the comment above is all.


For those thinking it would be cool to find old rust Db's on craigslist, be careful what you wish for! To repair these will take hour and hours of time. All the weights have to have the hammer finish bead blasted off them, then primed, then repainted. Plus it will probably take all new handles to make them really nice. I think I might buy some quality standard bars and just make a standard weight set out of it all

[elgreek84]

Yeah the Ivankos I bought were in pretty good condition, just some surface rust that came off with a towel and some scrubbing. Definitely not planning to take them apart. Also, the rusting looks a lot worse in the pictures than it does in person. It must be the flash of the camera. Anyway, thank you for the response Vinko, I think the 100lbs do not use Ivanko plates, or if they do, some older style of plates - they do not seem like part of the original set.

[IvankoBarbellCo]

I thought this thread was going to ask about some Ivanko dumbbells I saw pop up on CL yesterday. $150 for the rack, don't know much information though. I'm guessing these are the "fake Ivankos from Costco" made by Impex based on other threads.

Yes, these were made by Impex for Costco.

Why when I read these do I usually find myself both wanting the equipment and thinking that this should just be common sense?

It makes more sense in a commercial setting because you really want the equipment to hold up. In your garage or at home, not so much of a concern. You're (presumably) going to treat your equipment a little better than some do at the local gym

you can tell from the custom bolt, which as far as I know, no one has copied yet.

Whats custom about it? Is it just the hex size? This is where not being able to post pictures is a disadvantage!

Yes, the hex size (3/8th's instead of 5/16") and the actual head. Allows for more torque. The bolt itself is Grade 8, 5/8-18 national fine thread. I'm not suggesting that no one else is using 5/8 fine thread (for what's commonly known these days as a SDH handle), but it isn't uncommon for the bolt not to fit right -- either because the tap drill size is different or the interior threads are just really bad. I don't have photos available of the bolt itself, but the article has a few good shots of the hex head. Doesn't really tell much of the story though.

I bought a lot of very abused dumbbells used a while back.

In that lot were 30lb-90lb Ivanko in ten pound increments- they are really old and a bear to get apart.

We like to hear that

I found some tiny silver stickers on some of the plates I took apart. They were not that readable.

They could be ours. We commonly did this on the cast-iron plates. And still do on the rubber.

These plates have a machined center just like the Ivankos. Same dimensions too. The Casting is different though.

Not sure which plates you were specifically referring to above, but it's quite common now to find the hole to be machined rather than cast. I haven't checked recently, but a lot of manufacturer's castings have a gotten a lot better & a lot cleaner.

All handles are 1-1/16th!

The entire handle, including the area of the bar where you load the plates? Or just the actual "handle" portion?

the generic handles vary a lot even on the same handle , but 1.06 is about average.

That's interesting. Just curious: do you remember how much of a variance? Was there a particular area where the variance was, for the most part, present?

Ok now to the point. The Ivanko handles clearly survived better than the others.

All the weight and dumbbells where trashed. but there were some clear differences. The Ivankos held up pretty well considering... the handles were rusty but they were not bent. The chrome was not bubbling or as rusty as the generics. Big difference in knurling and general machine work too. all the sharp edges on the Ivanko handles have been smoothed. The generic handles sharp edges dug out the plates sides a bit over time. Some of the Generic handles have a U shaped bow in them. They bent even in the lighter 75 lb range. They all are 1-1/16th so it must be cheap steel.

Can I persuade you to write our copy

[donforeman]

Not sure which plates you were specifically referring to above, but it's quite common now to find the hole to be machined rather than cast. I haven't checked recently, but a lot of manufacturer's castings have a gotten a lot better & a lot cleaner.

The plates casting itself as far as the font of the numbers and surface finish is different between the Ivanko plates and the black plates that I think are Troy. There was a few shredded silver stickers that looked like a tr... or tro..
The surface finish on the unknown plates is really good though and the centers are machined well. Clean castings, so I'm not worried they will all end up black anyway. It takes time and my bead blaster and they are all bare metal.

The entire handle, including the area of the bar where you load the plates? Or just the actual "handle" portion?
That's interesting. Just curious: do you remember how much of a variance? Was there a particular area where the variance was, for the most part, present?

That's the crazy part! The generic handles are all over the place dimension wise. You can tell that not a lot of care was put into the machining process. I measure the part where the weights go.
They all look the same knurling wise and all, but the handles specs are all over the place some are .997 some are 1.03, other handles are 1.07. I have a lot of them, most are over 1". There are visible lumps and bumps in a few. A few have bends in them too.

One of the nicer ones, I have here in my hand has a taper it measures 1.078 at the inner collar then tapers to 1.067 at the ends. The taper is not consistent its mostly near the handle. Others have a slight taper the other way, not a huge deal but still something to look at.
The chrome on this better one has chipped off in places from the plates bumping up and down on the shaft.

One of the worst is the handle from the 140lb dumbell it measures .997 for most of the way then jumps up to 1.02 in a visible step about a 1/4" from the inner handle. Its this way on both sides so it had to be made that way on purpose. The knurling on the handle is missing in a few uneven spots = like the handle was made from a bent piece of steel at the factory. Its also one of the ones that has a bigger bend in it.

At least all the threads are good!

Sad to say these are not the worst handles I have had. About five years ago I bought a set of new pro handles off ebay. Out of twelve handles, three could not be assembled because of the poor threading. The ebay seller (Who still sells those handles today) told me it would just take some extra force and he checks all items before shipment because this is a common complaint.
I did use more force and pulled the threads in one. The seller mumbled and whined and sent me three new ones. That still were not very smooth to assemble, but they did work. The problem was the threads were so poor that some ends were pretty much stuck for life, and others were so sloppy that they loosen up with just a few good drops. I didn't think of loctite, that would have helped I'm sure. Those ended up being given to a friend that thought he wanted to work out, but instead uses them to hold down one corner of his garage. They are well suited to that!

The Ivanko handles are visibly different. I threw them and the generics in the bucket of vinegar to take the rust off and there is no confusing them with the generics. The Ivanko handles clean up pretty well in the vinegar because the rust didn't bubble the chrome and they are not bent.

[rthawker]

DonF, When you get your post count up you should start a thread showing the restoration of your dumbbells. Also pointing out the differences you mentioned earlier. I'm sure a lot here would appreciate it.

[elgreek84]

DonF, When you get your post count up you should start a thread showing the restoration of your dumbbells. Also pointing out the differences you mentioned earlier. I'm sure a lot here would appreciate it.

Yeah DonF, give us 6 more posts and lets see some pictures!

[donforeman]

DonF, When you get your post count up you should start a thread showing the restoration of your dumbbells. Also pointing out the differences you mentioned earlier. I'm sure a lot here would appreciate it.

Some of it doesn't translate too well to pictures. When you start measuring and actually hold it in your hand with a Ivanko in the other, its easier to see what low quality stuff it is.

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=IMG_0537.jpg

Its hard to see, but in this picture you will see
1) sharp edges that gouge the plates
2) the distortion or increase in size right before the inner collar
3) cheap bubbling chrome that does flake off easy
4) the knurling spots that looks to indicate the bar was bent before it was even finished


http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=IMG_0531.jpg

In this picture is the same handle on top
1) you can sort see the distortion but it doesn't show up that well like in person.
2) The bend didn't get any better with time!
3) You can see where the chrome has started flaking and rusting below the weight plates on both generic handles. It looks worse in person too. On some handles they arent just bubbles they are grooves where the chrome is completely gone.

I didn't take any pictures of the Ivanko handles yet mostly because a they are still soaking in the vinegar to clean them up. Even without the soak they looked better than this


http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee288/earlysb1/DBs/
The album is unlocked so just browse around if you want.

[rthawker]

It's amazing how low quality those handles are. I still think it will be great to see them when you finish the resto. What color are you going to paint them? I believe there is a green hammertone that would be similar to the Ivankos just a little darker green I think.

[donforeman]

It's amazing how low quality those handles are. I still think it will be great to see them when you finish the resto. What color are you going to paint them? I believe there is a green hammertone that would be similar to the Ivankos just a little darker green I think.

I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I'm not sure what I'm going to do other than clean and repaint the Ivanko weight slowly. Black sounds great to me = easy to touch up and keep nice! I'm not using the generic handles on anything I'm keeping. The worst ones will go to the garbage. The other generic handles might be assembled with weight and re sold I have not decided. The scary part is I dont think they are low quality handles. I think they are pretty average for cheap china import handles. Years of abuse just made the flaws a little easier to see. Thats why I said something. I would hate to see others spend good money on the crud when Ivanko has their 27mm handles on closeout reasonable.
http://www.ivankobarbell.com/products/sdhcdh27mm/
Yes! I graduated past 30 posts! I'm not link censored any more!

[elgreek84]

I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I'm not sure what I'm going to do other than clean and repaint the Ivanko weight slowly. Black sounds great to me = easy to touch up and keep nice! I'm not using the generic handles on anything I'm keeping. The worst ones will go to the garbage. The other generic handles might be assembled with weight and re sold I have not decided. The scary part is I dont think they are low quality handles. I think they are pretty average for cheap china import handles. Years of abuse just made the flaws a little easier to see. Thats why I said something. I would hate to see others spend good money on the crud when Ivanko has their 27mm handles on closeout reasonable.
http://www.ivankobarbell.com/products/sdhcdh27mm/
Yes! I graduated past 30 posts! I'm not link censored any more!

If possible please post an update when you clean the Ivanko Dbs, I would like to see how they look before and after! My Ivankos are a bit rusty too, so I look forward to how yours turn out!

[donforeman]

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=IMG_0542.jpg

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...t=IMG_0541.jpg

Ivanko db handles exposed to the same conditions as the generics then soaked in vinegar just like the generics were.

There is a lot missing
No bubbling chrome
No bent handles!
No sharp edges to dig into the weights!
No missing knurling and the knurling that's there is much deeper!
Not perfect, but very usable!

[donforeman]

If possible please post an update when you clean the Ivanko Dbs, I would like to see how they look before and after! My Ivankos are a bit rusty too, so I look forward to how yours turn out!

I put the generic 100's back together. The Ivanko weights are actually alot harder to repaint than the generic black weight because the Ivanko paint is so thick... the chips show right through the new paint. So I stopped at the generics for today I have another new set I got before this set so my motivation is failing. A little at a time most likely!

[elgreek84]

I put the generic 100's back together. The Ivanko weights are actually alot harder to repaint than the generic black weight because the Ivanko paint is so thick... the chips show right through the new paint. So I stopped at the generics for today I have another new set I got before this set so my motivation is failing. A little at a time most likely!

That looks awesome, but can you scroll some to the right and take a picture of that freshly painted ivanko (with the ivanko end cap!) looks awesome!

[donforeman]

Its a fake I just put the Ivanko end cap on the generic. Just to keep the painted weight some what organized. I picked up some silver hammer coat today, that I think will look better on the end caps. I only painted a few plain silver to see how they looked. I will post a picture when they are really done.