The Good Old Days? An Objective Look

[JValjean724]

Recently, there seems to be the misconception that the nutrition forum is going rogue and that those darn radical newcomers are driving away all meaningful discussion with their “smart ass comments” and generic replies. I decided to investigate this claim through the little used tool known as the search button.

What I found was the whole IIFIYM posts and arguments are far from anything new, as evidenced from the links below:

Here’s a thread gem I found in 2007:

Jesus Christ! Is it healthy? Does it fit into your macros? THEN YES, YOU CAN HAVE IT!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=fit+macros

Again in 2006

Is Fruit ok on a cut?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=eat+cut

Yes, they're fine. Just keep track of your total caloric intake.

….sounds quite familiar

2007
Can I eat carbs after 8PM?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=fit+macros

carbs are fine at any time of the day as long as they fit into your macros, if you are doing some sort of energy requiring activity at night then carbs are especially usefull

Is 1 cup oats too much on a cut?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ddamned+macros

fit
it
into
your
goddamned
macros

Oh and guess what? Back in 2007 there were the same brain-dead people who can’t understand simple concepts
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=fit+macros

"Just fit it in your macros" - bs?
________________________________________
There's an increasing trend in this forum that advocates the act of eating anything you want, as long as 'you fit it in your macros'.

The thing is, is it as simple as 'fitting it in your macros' and that 'there's no such thing as dirty food?'? Is 50g carbs from coco pops the same as 50g carbs from oats? Unfortunately, they aren't the same at all. One will spike your insulin, does not have much fibre or vitamins while the other is slow digesting, rich in fibre and various other nutrients. Spiked insulin levels make you more prone to gaining fat, and even if you don't eat beyond your BMR(and thus probably not gain weight), you'll be damaging your body's insulin sensitivity.

That being said, there are some whom this increasingly well-loved rule (since it allows you to eat almost everything) will apply: the genetically blessed ones. Guys like matthor and some others have great genes(no offence).. come on, look at them. They probably are 90-100% mesomorphs and can eat whatever they like without worrying too much. Unfortunately, they make the minority.

Thus for the majority, we should eat clean at least 80% of the time, and if need be, have a cheat meal every now and then.
I don't know; maybe I've misunderstood, but to tell you the truth, I'm hoping that I've had the wrong idea because I sincerely hope that people reading and contributing to the forum contribute ideas and information that are true to bodybuilding principles.

The statement 'just fit it in your macros' is IMO just another excuse to eat unhealthy foods which gives us a false illusion of what bodybuilding really is - a tough job that requires full determination and discipline.

To those who aren't really serious about this sport, and just train for recreational purposes, you probably can eat what you want and fit it in your macros - it doesn't really matter for you. But please stop advocating this idea to those who are serious about this sport, or worse, those who are serious and NEW to this sport.

Just my 2 cents, and I don't intend this to offend anyone. Comments (and curses ) will be appreciated.

And who would have thought that even back in 2003 there were problems trying to define “clean”?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ighlight=clean
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=153873


Finally, here are two examples of replies to questions about what foods are “ok to eat”, one from 2007, the other from today:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...+ok..+lot+make

wow.. ok.. u need a lot of changes to make right there.. first of all.. you need more protein!!! not only from shakes.. you have to have at least 30g of prot at every meal, then.. fats.. there are other sources for fat besides peanut butter.. then.. veggies man!! where are your fruits and veggies...
Start reading the stickies!! you have to rethink that diet..

here`s a little guide..

* Divide your protein intake up roughly between each of your meals.
* About 2/3-3/4 of your carbs should be eaten PWO and up to 4-6 hours after your workout.

Breakfast - About 15% Of Total Caloric Intake:

o 1/3 of starchy carbohydrates (oatmeal, whole wheat bread, etc.)
o 2/3 of protein (eggs, milk, lean meat)
o Small portion (1 spoonful) of good fats (fish oil, olive oil, nuts, etc.)
o Your choice of fruits & or vegetables from the list
o Water or Green Tea

All Other Pre Workout Meals & After 4-6 Hours After Workout:

o 1/3 of starchy vegetables and/or fruits (greens, sweet potato, salad, etc.)
o 2/3 of lean protein
o Small portion of good fats
o Any of the listed fruits & vegetables
o Water or Green Tea to drink

Pre-Workout Nutrition (Optional, But Ideal)

o 30-40 grams of fast absorbing carbohydrates (sucrose, dextrose, or maltodextrin)
o 5-15 grams of whey or BCAA powder

Post-Workout Nutrition (Get As Soon As Possible)

o 20-40 grams of whey protein
o 40-80 grams of fast absorbing carbohydrates (sucrose, dextrose, or maltodextrin)
o 1-2 grams of BCAA's
o 1-2 grams of glutamine

1-2 Hours After Workout:

o 1/2 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
o 1/2 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
o Minimal fats
o Any Fruits & Vegetables from the list
o Water or green tea to drink

3-4 Hours After Workout:

o 1/2 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
o 1/2 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
o Small serving of extra good fat
o Any Fruits & Vegetables from the list
o Water or green tea to drink

4-6 Hours After Workout:

o 1/3 of starchy carbs (Whole grains, pasta, whole grain bread, oats, baked potatoes, etc.)
o 2/3 of lean protein (Egg whites, tuna, other fish, lean red meat, skim milk, etc.)
o Small serving of extra good fats

Pre-Bed Meal:

o 1 cup of skim milk
o 1/2 scoop of whey protein
o 1/2 scoop of casein protein OR
2 cups skim milk + 1/2 scoop whey



Protein

Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
Tuna (water packed)
Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut, sushi, mahi mahi, Orange roughy, tilapia, Sardines)
Shrimp
Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
Venison
Buffalo
Ostrich
Pork (lean)
Protein Powder (Whey, Casein, Soy, Egg)
Eggs
Low or Non-Fat Cottage cheese, Ricotta
Low fat or Non fat Yogurt
Ribeye Steaks or Roast
Top Round Steaks or Roast (stew meat, London broil, Stir fry)
Top Sirloin (Sirloin Top Butt)
Beef Tenderloin (filet mignon)
Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
Flank Steak (Stir Fry, Fajitas)
Eye of Round (Cube meat, Stew meat, Bottom Round)
Ground Turkey, Turkey Breast slices or cutlets (*no deli or sandwich meats)

Complex Carbs (nothing enriched, bleached or processed if possible)

Oatmeal (Old fashioned, Quick oats, Irish steal cut)
Sweet Potatoes, Yams
Beans (Black eyed, Pinto, Red, Kidney, Black)
Oat Bran Cereal, Grape nuts, Rye cereal, Multi grain hot cereal
Farin (Cream of wheat)
Whole Wheat frozen Bagels, Pitas
Whole wheat or Spinach Pasta, Whey Pasta
Rice (Brown, white, jasmin, basmati, arborio, wild)
Potatoes (red, white, baking)

Fibrous Carbs

Green Leafy lettuce (red, green, romaine)
Broccoli
Asparagus
String Beans
Spinach
Bell Peppers (Green or Red)
Brussels Sprouts
Cauliflower
Cabbage
Celery
Cucumber
Carrots
Eggplant
Onions
Pumpkin
Garlic
Tomatoes
Zucchini

Fruit (If acceptable on diet)
bananas, oranges, apples, grapefruit, peaches, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, lemons or limes

Healthy Fats

Natural Style Peanut Butter
Olive oil, Safflower oil
Flaxseed oil
Fish Oil
Nuts (peanuts, almonds, walnuts)

Dairy

Eggs
Low of Non-Fat cottage cheese, Ricotta
Low or non-fat milk
Low fat or non-fat yogurt

Condiments & Spices

Diet Soda
Crystal light
Fat free mayonnaise
Reduced sodium Soy Sauce
Reduced sodium Teriyaki Sauce
balsamic Vinegar
Salsa, Jalapenos
Hot peppers and Hot sauce, Cayenne pepper
Chili powder and Chili paste
Mrs. Dash
Steak Sauce
Sugar free Maple Syrup
Mustard
Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc)
Low sodium beef or chicken Broth
Plain or reduced sodium tomato sauce

Natural Sugar Sources
Honey

you could eat any food you want as long as it fits into you daily macronutrients and doesn't interfere with micro nutrient sufficiency. obviously you want to go with more nutrient dense foods the majority of the time if cutting for satiety reasons., but there is no reason to exclude certain foods.

I don’t know about you, but to me the second answer was much more succinct, useful, and correct while not taking up 3 pages with useless complications that will only serve to confuse and confound those seeking to achieve their bodybuilding goals.

[IamABeast]

1st


What have we learned today class?

A.There's nothing new under the sun.

B.People were,are,and always will be ignorant.

C.This is a never ending S*** storm that begins and ends with personal preference,convienance, and trial and error.

D.All of the above.



Edit:Op Repped for research, and use of the long lost frequently forgotton search button.

[dustinh6719]

Surprised they weren't begged into oblivion. They were obviously the minority.

[JOE_EDGE]

In. For the discussion.

[ErickStevens]

The more things change...

[jake1224]

Did not even read any of OP's post - straight to Reply. In. Will edit momentarily.


Edit: That meal plan that was posted is the most horridly overcomplicated piece of psuedo-intellectual attempt at efficiency I have ever seen on this board. Srs. The absurdity is so ridiculous that I have to purposely use an expanded vocabulary just to be maximally condescending to that post. Dat dere overcomplication...great scott.

[JValjean724]

1st


What have we learned today class?

A.There's nothing new under the sun.

B.People were,are,and always will be ignorant.

C.This is a never ending S*** storm that begins and ends with personal preference,convienance, and trial and error.

D.All of the above.



Edit:Op Repped for research, and use of the long lost frequently forgotton search button.

I'd say that just about sums it up

Did not even read any of OP's post - straight to Reply. In. Will edit momentarily.


Edit: That meal plan that was posted is the most horridly overcomplicated piece of psuedo-intellectual attempt at efficiency I have ever seen on this board. Srs. The absurdity is so ridiculous that I have to purposely use an expanded vocabulary just to be maximally condescending to that post. Dat dere overcomplication...great scott.

I'm wondering how anyone would be able to keep track all of that in one day....you'd have to take out notes and study before eating a meal

[braggable]

Wow, that was a cool read. Nice going digging that up, OP. Repped.