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  1. #91
    Banned G.W. Hayduke's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    reps
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  2. #92
    10 30 10 shadar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by G.W. Hayduke View Post
    reps
    lies!
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  3. #93
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    what are we talking??? Plain monohydrate or what?? Mixed in water?? I could take this further but i rather not...


    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Reps for the first person to find a great thread about creatine dosage, or better yet, a single post where someone very intelligently sums up the proper dosage and links to a study or two to back up their points.

    The more detailed explanation the better. Bonus points if it includes how creatine actually works as part of the description as well as explains that loading and carbs are not required.

    I know I've seen some, but I've never saved a link
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  4. #94
    Primum non nocere Synapsin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Reps for the first person to find a great thread about creatine dosage, or better yet, a single post where someone very intelligently sums up the proper dosage and links to a study or two to back up their points.

    The more detailed explanation the better. Bonus points if it includes how creatine actually works as part of the description as well as explains that loading and carbs are not required.

    I know I've seen some, but I've never saved a link

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...33&postcount=4
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...81&postcount=3

    "Based upon some more aggressive washout data, TCr content linearly decreases at a rate of about 0.43 - 0.68 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman, McKenna). Also, let's use the conservative 14-28 elevation rate of 0.43 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman).

    mmol == moles/1000; Say you're a 90kg male, dry mass assuming less 77% water content. (Bergström, 1962), 0.68 mmol/kg/day * (90*0.33) = 14.08mmol/day = ~1.84g/day."- Pinch
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  5. #95
    Registered Boss EntropyIncrease's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Ok, just making sure! For some reason I was thinking you were supporting Ketogenic diets, lol. I was confused by the link because of that
    lol yeah I reread my post and it does sound that way haha. too lazy to go back and change it tho

    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Reps for the first person to find a great thread about creatine dosage, or better yet, a single post where someone very intelligently sums up the proper dosage and links to a study or two to back up their points.

    The more detailed explanation the better. Bonus points if it includes how creatine actually works as part of the description as well as explains that loading and carbs are not required.

    I know I've seen some, but I've never saved a link

    No, but I got a nice thread about how long creatine stays in your system (with studies of course)

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131256593
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  6. #96
    Registered User Histrionics's Avatar
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    Shyte. Thanks for doing this man.
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  7. #97
    10 30 10 shadar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...33&postcount=4
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...81&postcount=3

    "Based upon some more aggressive washout data, TCr content linearly decreases at a rate of about 0.43 - 0.68 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman, McKenna). Also, let's use the conservative 14-28 elevation rate of 0.43 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman).

    mmol == moles/1000; Say you're a 90kg male, dry mass assuming less 77% water content. (Bergström, 1962), 0.68 mmol/kg/day * (90*0.33) = 14.08mmol/day = ~1.84g/day."- Pinch

    Awesome! Nicely done sir Added it at the top of the creatine section.

    Originally Posted by Histrionics View Post
    Shyte. Thanks for doing this man.
    I'm just trying to bring a lot of great posts by other intelligent people together in one place. They are the ones who deserve lots of praise for actually posting all this great stuff. I'm just a middle man
    Last edited by shadar; 03-03-2011 at 07:08 PM.
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  8. #98
    @missionarystyle Valenzuelatech's Avatar
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    U just got stickied! (no homo)

    Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


    Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times
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  9. #99
    IIFYM Prestonmayne's Avatar
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    go shadar! you got a sticky bro, you deserve it.
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  10. #100
    Body by Nutella. cjwav34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Valenzuelatech View Post
    U just got stickied! (no homo)

    Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


    Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times
    I don't have a link.
    From what I understand casein has more of an anti catabolic effect, while whey is more anabolic. So when you are drinking straight casein you are more or less preserving lean mass opposed to buliding it.
    IIRC whey also has a greater effect on protein synteisis opposed to casein. So in theory whey + casein would be superior to straight whey or straight casein.
    Last edited by cjwav34; 03-04-2011 at 05:44 AM.
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  11. #101
    Registered User cyprus33's Avatar
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    Congrats on the sticky man
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  12. #102
    Banned Mr.Cooper69's Avatar
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    great thread so far, links still inc once i finish my loast exam today
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  13. #103
    10 30 10 shadar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Valenzuelatech View Post
    U just got stickied! (no homo)

    Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


    Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times
    Woah, very cool. Didn't think much got stickied these days.

    If the first three posts need to be updated in the future, will a mod be able to do that for me? I think the edit ability goes away eventually, right? I'd like to be able to keep the sticky updated at least occasionally.

    And I think the idea of casein alone being a bad idea is better stated as being unnecessary, not "bad". If people like casein it won't be bad for them to take it obviously, but it's not a requirement at certain times like some believe (such as pre-bed). This fits generally into AA's nutrient timing rules of:

    The First Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
    The Second Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.




    Originally Posted by cjwav34 View Post
    I don't have a link.
    From what I understand casein has more of an anti catabolic effect, while whey is more anabolic. So when you are drinking straight casein you are more or less preserving lean mass opposed to buliding it.
    IIRC whey also has a greater effect on protein synteisis opposed to casein. So in theory whey + casein would be superior to straight whey or straight casein.
    I do believe this would be more towards Layne's view on it. I know he's not a big casein fan, not that he hates it either though. AA's given a similar description of the two as well, believe it's in one my links actually.


    Originally Posted by cyprus33 View Post
    Congrats on the sticky man
    Originally Posted by Prestonmayne View Post
    go shadar! you got a sticky bro, you deserve it.
    Thanks guys


    Originally Posted by Mr.Cooper69 View Post
    great thread so far, links still inc once i finish my loast exam today
    Sounds good, I'll be around again a bit later.
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  14. #104
    hi Hyruliangoat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Valenzuelatech View Post
    U just got stickied! (no homo)

    Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


    Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times
    Layne rips on it in my amino acid thread!
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  15. #105
    10 30 10 shadar's Avatar
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    Bane's ZMA link is dead. Anyone have a good post/thread on it? Similar to what Synapsin posted above for Creatine?
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  16. #106
    Registered User mikeonopiates's Avatar
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    I think less people will see it if it is stickied, I noticed that I never check the stickies. I think itd be better on the first page, but we will see.
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  17. #107
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    This thread could answer every question ever asked here at BB.com...


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  18. #108
    Platinum Member eldawg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Valenzuelatech View Post
    Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times
    I think it comes from a few posts like this one from Des.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=8
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  19. #109
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    solid sticky choice
    "Don't ask for a lighter load, ask for a stronger back."

    If I buy milk from the grocery store and get it home only to realize that the jug is expiring tomorrow...I sure as hell am not driving to punch a farmer in the face and tip his cow over.
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  20. #110
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    does the carb source for creatine absorption have to a simple sugar? or any carb + protein source will do as long as it is high?
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  21. #111
    interact with me PinchTheBear's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    Based upon some more aggressive washout data, TCr content linearly decreases at a rate of about 0.43 - 0.68 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman, McKenna). Also, let's use the conservative 14-28 elevation rate of 0.43 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman).

    Originally Posted by PinchTheBear View Post
    mmol == moles/1000; Say you're a 90kg male, dry mass assuming less 77% water content. (Bergström, 1962), 0.68 mmol/kg/day * (90*0.33) = 14.08mmol/day = ~1.84g/day.

    However, we've all seen this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971966 regarding PCr.
    ^^just fixed to give credit to in10city for the first two sentences. And Syn's post- that's the best explanation of creatine's physiological function I've ever seen. gjdm.
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  22. #112
    10 30 10 shadar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by -kkkd View Post
    does the carb source for creatine absorption have to a simple sugar? or any carb + protein source will do as long as it is high?
    It will only make a difference before reaching saturation, once at saturation a carb source will make no difference at all. I also don't believe the GI of the carb source matter much, but I'm sure someone can clarify.

    Really you don't need to use carbs anytime, it just slightly speeds up the process, but the difference will be very small in terms of lean mass. Not something worth worrying about imo.


    Originally Posted by eldawg View Post
    I think it comes from a few posts like this one from Des.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=8
    I've seen this post before, but not really seen many others comment on it. Any other thoughts on this?



    Originally Posted by PinchTheBear View Post
    ^^just fixed to give credit to in10city for the first two sentences. And Syn's post- that's the best explanation of creatine's physiological function I've ever seen. gjdm.
    Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    It will only make a difference before reaching saturation, once at saturation a carb source will make no difference at all. I also don't believe the GI of the carb source matter much, but I'm sure someone can clarify.

    Really you don't need to use carbs anytime, it just slightly speeds up the process, but the difference will be very small in terms of lean mass. Not something worth worrying about imo.




    I've seen this post before, but not really seen many others comment on it. Any other thoughts on this?





    Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.
    thanks shadar, i may be a non responder and i giving creatine a last try. after watching will brink's video about mixing and the absorption of creatine, the last time i did with creatine was mix 3-5g postworkout or just dump it in my mouth and chase it down with water. will brink says undissolved creatine is not absorbed or something like that. and i really wanted to maximize the absorption of creatine to know whether i am really a non responder or not.
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    Originally Posted by -kkkd View Post
    thanks shadar, i may be a non responder and i giving creatine a last try. after watching will brink's video about mixing and the absorption of creatine, the last time i did with creatine was mix 3-5g postworkout or just dump it in my mouth and chase it down with water. will brink says undissolved creatine is not absorbed or something like that. and i really wanted to maximize the absorption of creatine to know whether i am really a non responder or not.
    It's people like you that the video is meant for imo. Most do just fine with it just mixed into water/protein/etc. But perhaps some need it more dissolved. Worth a try. Can't hurt to mix it with a little bit of sugar initially I suppose.
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.
    PM a mod, they should be able to edit it.
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    Originally Posted by Valenzuelatech View Post
    Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times
    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    And I think the idea of casein alone being a bad idea is better stated as being unnecessary, not "bad". If people like casein it won't be bad for them to take it obviously, but it's not a requirement at certain times like some believe (such as pre-bed).
    From the bodybuilding mythbusters thread:

    "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21045172

    This study showed that immediate responses to whey and casein ingestion were different... But the end result was the same. They both stimulated protein synthesis equally."

    -DDon1996

    Pretty much what you were saying; casein is certainly not bad, but has no real benefit for the extra cost.
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  28. #118
    @missionarystyle Valenzuelatech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.
    Just PM me whenever you want to edit the OP

    Originally Posted by eldawg View Post
    I think it comes from a few posts like this one from Des.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=8
    This is pretty interesting along with what you guys have posted.

    So generally casein in high doses due to it's coagulation in the gut may be difficult for the body to absorb and for the price, it offers no benefits beyond whey or a blend of whey+casein.
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    @missionarystyle Valenzuelatech's Avatar
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    Any threads on the best forms of vitamins & minerals?
    eg:
    Methylcobalamin>Cyanocobalamin
    Mineral Chelates>Oxides
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    Originally Posted by Valenzuelatech View Post
    Mineral Chelates>Oxides
    Simplified briefly, just so it's here:
    • Relatively insoluble mineral oxides generally pass through the digestive system en masse (unchanged) and are excreted. Mineral oxides, however, are polar and can dissolve in gastric acid. The problem with absorption lies in the complicated and extensive in vivo requirements for efficient absorption.
    • Soluble mineral salts, once in the gut, can react with negatively charged ions and become insoluble (then excreted), can be absorbed through ion gated channels (e.g. divalent metal transporter, which transports iron along with other divalent, or 2+ charge, minerals: generally inefficient), or can be chelated by carrier proteins, then absorbed highly efficiently and non competitively.
    • Chelated minerals can be absorbed through the same transporters used for dipeptides and tripeptides like hydrolyzed whey; therefore, they are extremely efficient and not competitive for specific mineral chelates over others.
    • Real mineral chelates are bound by amino acids, specifically by the nitrogens and oxygens donating electrons to the metal. The chelator must be an amino acid, or the compound will behave like a salt (e.g. "Kreb's cycle chelates"), not offering any of the benefits of a real chelate.

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    http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks..._minerals.html
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