Detailed Post Asking for some Cutting Advice

[kimchi4prez]

Hey! This is going to be a one long post so trolls and people who don't bother reading please, step aside. I'd really enjoy everyone's opinion, criticism and help! I feel that I'm so close but, I want to be on the right road before I travel down the path too far.

I've been on quite the body building journey and wanted to give a quick background before getting into the thick of things. I've been overweight from probably seven till my current age of 22. I think my peak may have been around 225 lbs (102 kg) and though I'm 6"0 (183cm) and had large'ish legs, I still am trying to build strength from my upper body.

I've been learning how to lift for about 6 years give or take, I've trained with a partner and a trainer and of course by myself. I've just started taking a lot of group exercise classes and training for a 5k and gradually a half to a full marathon. I still feel that I need to learn a lot and I've read a lot of the stickies as well as further reading on my own* but, I still have questions.



The first picture of was my starting progress from my peak of around 215. I believe that the time stamp is the correct date 5/10/2010. I started my CreaDyl / NO Beta challenge and though I enjoyed both those supplements, I ultimately didn't pull through because of my diet. I tried the Ketogenic diet and it just wasn't for me. I never had any appetite for anything and generally felt awful. If I could estimate, I probably got less than 2k cals in fat/protein but I still worked out very hard. I did about a month of this and gave into carbs and haven't looked back especially since my month of summer break had just arrived haha..

I picked up the pieces and tried a more reasonable approach after my god awful summer break... I feel that the one month attempt at keto and the binging on carbs + not being able to cook for myself sabotaged anything I might have gained while working out. I think I was at my worst right before I had started classes in Fall/September of 2010 and I had gotten up to 225... So imagine the first picture with 10 more lbs of fat and try to keep your food down. hahaha I started my transformation basically over again but because I used so much money on the other failed one, I didn't really have money to invest in another one haha..

Anyways I'm currently 191.5 (86.8kg) (In the morning). I'm currently taking two types of cardio classes, one called Cardio Fusion which is a 50 minute group exercise style class with interval training, Stepping, circuit training on Mon + Wed. Cardio Conditioning which is a cardio class where you run LISS for about 45 minutes on Tues + Thurs. I also take this free class that Monday-Thurs right after my Cardio classes, that vary depending on the day. The classes are Body Toning, Interval Training, Core Training & Yoga all for about 50 minutes. The cardiofusion classes range from about a good heavy breathing 150 bpm to a full throttle 180 BPM. The cardio conditioning class I strive for about 140-150 for a quality LISS. The free classes can be from 130-170 depending on the class and intensity of the day.

I mentioned I was training for a 5k so, I try to run every Sunday with a group of friends for about 45 minutes. I don't know if this is worthy of mention but, I also walk to and from school Monday - Thursday which is 1.4 miles away one way almost all up hill haha.. Takes me about 20-25 min at a good rate up hill actively trying not to sweat or be late but it happens anyway...

Four to five days of the week, I try to get about two hours of light to medium cardio. I try to work out 3 - 4 times a week. I'm currently going with the first place BB.com Compound Exercise Article. My workouts generally take about an hour to an hour and a half. 5 minutes of warming up on a treadmill. Generally 1 minute between sets. 20 minutes of light jogging or HIIT. 5-10 minutes of stretching.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw46.htm

Quick Summary - Focuses on Compound Exercises

Monday - Chest/Tricep T - Legs W - Cardio/Off Th - Shoulders Fri - Back

and I follow it except for Legs because I do so much cardio leg work on a nigh daily basis. I sometimes substitute it for a bicep/forearm work out.

This is my current self not flexing. Sorry about the ****ty camera and bad lighting.



I took a lot of pictures not because I'm somehow impressed with myself. haha Far from it. It's because I wanted to get a good opinion and with self shots it's hard to keep the camera steady while flexing so a lot of them are really blurry. Next time I'll get my male room mate to take pictures of me with my shirt off and flexing rofl...





LOL The quality of these are even worse than I thought... I'll get new ones asap


Leg SHOT WHOA! Now you KNOW I'm serious business. Unflexed



Flexed... just for comparison. It's barely noticeable anyway haha



I'll try and get better pictures with back shots and leg shots but for now bare with me.

I want to get cut and when I was 215 I was hoping losing 25 lbs while gaining muscle would be enough... But I was wrong haha, I still want to lose 10+ lbs and have rippling wash board abs. I want obliques of an Olympian god. I always thought I had big bones lol what ****ty excuse but, I just have a lot of fat left.

I started to follow the sticky here with the 12 week guaranteed transformation but when I started having doubts because my macros were kind of weird, I looked and POOF the sticky was unstickied and I couldn't find it haha.. Granted I altered it a bit but here was the general diet.



The Double Dose of Protein Powder is pre and post work out. I drink the Juice Post Work out.

Oops forgot to add the total macros. All calculated via fatsecret.com calorie counter.

Total Calories : 2058 Prot - 244.56 Carbs - 163.5 Fat - 49.85

This is what I wanted to do. Basically I try to do 5.5 oz of chicken twice a day and 6oz or a serving size of a carb twice a day. I finish the day with ground beef or steak and eat peanut butter.

For supplements, I take a multi and 3x Fish Oils a day and I try to drink about of liter of Yerba Mate along with the gallon of water daily.

I've been somewhat following this and even with it only being 2,000 calories, I'm usually really satiated. It's probably the beans but I substitute spaghetti, brown rice, sweet potatoes, (Soon white rice) slice of whole wheat toast etc.

First question. How does my diet look? I feel that it's really protein heavy, I've heard so many different things about how much protein per pound is optimal and the difference between 0.6 per lb and 1.5 per lb can be quite dramatic in calories at least. I'm currently at 1.28.

My goal isn't necessarily large mass but more of lower body percentage, I want 7-8% with my abs showing without flexing. I've been heavy set my whole life and I want the swole life now. I continually try to up my old sets each week by one peg or weight ie 5 or 10 lbs. I realize I did say I'm doing compound work outs. I don't mind gaining pure muscle mass but I believe compounds also increase body fat loss as well due to more body parts moving. Another goal includes becoming faster in general, I've been working on foot work, my cardiovascular system and speed training. My mile run time in Sept. was 10:08 and now it's 7:17. I want to be able to get around 6:00 in the future.

With that in mind, is it better to lower Protein to something around .6 - .8 and add more Carbs and Fat?

My other goal include eventually running a marathon and with the heavy amount of cardio and LISS I do on a daily basis, am I eating too much or not enough for a cut? I know 2000 is really low but, I don't how to calculate the added calories in foods that I cook with Olive Oil.

What are people's thoughts on amount of protein powder per day?

I've heard a lot of different opinions... Muscle & Fitness Magazine seems to recommend Protein Powder 4 times a day - Upon waking, Pre-Workout, Post-Workout, Before Bed. I don't have Casein so I don't drink protein powder before bed but I obviously follow the 3 a day rule. I've heard people swear by two and others one and others none.

Does the amount of cardio I do mean I should be eating a lot more on a daily basis? How about my off (Saturday) where I try not to run or lift? What about Tuesday and Weds when I don't lift and just do cardio? Should I even be worrying about different calorie amounts of different types of training days?

Anyone know how much marinating things in flavored things adds calories and how to calculate? For example, when people marinate in olive oil, spices etc and lime how much is or isn't being added?

Oh and body fat estimations? I know they're awful quality

My prior dieting never included weighing, I just ate what I thought about what would be right and tried to eat a variety of different foods. Almost everyone on the forum tends to agree that calorie counting is the key to great abs and that is what I'm trying to do but that's when things just get too complicated. Everything little thing starts becoming important.

Thanks for reading this epic.. I just wanted to be as detailed as possible before questions were answered and since you can never be me, this is the closest way to know me.

TL;DR: Look at pictures. Look at Diet. What should I change?

[Jordanbid]

well lift heavy, stick to your diet, and you will get to where you need everybody is different. Make sure you are getting plenty of sleep ZZzzzzz..... stay consistent. It ALL comes down to calories in vs calories out. you can estimate how much calories your body burns by multiplying your wieght in KG's by 24.2 and that how much ur body burns NOT including how much u burn doing cardio so stay below you calorie limit and burn. IDk about 4 shakes a day i would recommend food over a shake any day.

[SideSteal]

Total Calories : 2058 Prot - 244.56 Carbs - 163.5 Fat - 49.85





What are people's thoughts on amount of protein powder per day?

I've heard a lot of different opinions... Muscle & Fitness Magazine seems to recommend Protein Powder 4 times a day - Upon waking, Pre-Workout, Post-Workout, Before Bed. I don't have Casein so I don't drink protein powder before bed but I obviously follow the 3 a day rule. I've heard people swear by two and others one and others none.

I will read this again tomorrow when my pregnant wife isn't texting me from upstairs telling me to come to bed. But for now, regarding the bold: I speculate that this magazine gets funding from companies that sell protein powder and as such, it makes a lot of sense that they would advocate taking 4/day protein.

The amount needed is directly dependent on your diet and lifestyle. You can get adequate protein from whole foods and in doing so, you're likely to get better micronutrients as well as satiety since you get to eat something. I have nothing against protein powder and in fact, I use it on occasion because sometimes I'm just not diligent enough to hit my macros via whole foods day in and day out--that being said, I realize it's just a convenience and not some magic juice that is going to get me jacked.

So, there's nothing wrong with using whey to help you get your totals--just realize it's a substitution for actual food, nothing more.

Despite your painfully long post, kudos to you for being very detailed. Usually what we get on these forums is

"Hay can I has spageddi after 7pm? Big guy at my gym sez no".

Good luck OP---I might add more comments tomorrow

[bakyhama]

You seem like a smart guy, and you provided us with many details, so I will in turn give you a detailed answer that isn't "read the stickies". While I'm certainly not some guru or expert, I've been very fat, and I've lost it and kept it off, so hopefully at least part of my advice will have meaning for you. Anyhow, let's start with the most fundamental part - diet.

At 6'0" and 195 lbs, and somewhat high bodyfat, 2000 calories is a good place to set your daily limit. Obviously this will depend on your lifestyle and activity levels, but for the most part, anywhere from 10 - 13x your bodyweight is a good starting point if you have considerable fat to lose.

Now I see that you listed a detailed list of foods as your general diet. If you can stick to this every day, I applaud you, because that is stricter than my cutting diet for sure. For the most part, until you reach lower levels of bodyfat (I'm talking ~10%), the type of food you eat isn't going to have a major effect on your fat loss so long as you take in enough protein to spare muscle and enough dietary fat to keep everything else running smooth. Beyond those requirements, you could fill the rest of your calories with whatever you want and lose fat. The general rule of thumb is 1g of protein per lb of lean body mass, and 0.4 - 0.5g of fat per pound of lean body mass.

Looking to your sample macros, I see an extremely high amount of protein and what I would consider a very low amount of fat. In my opinion, you should reduce the protein and increase fat and carbs unless the food you normally enjoy IS high in protein. At your bodyfat level, I'd say that 180g protein is more than sufficient, which would free up nearly 250 calories for carbs and fat. I would take the fat up to 70 - 80g or so and go from there. But again, that's just me. Protein is quite filling, so if taking in that much helps you stay full and fight urges, by all means take it. Just know that you more than likely do not need that much and you CAN substitute that protein for other nutrients should you choose. Protein will become more vital as you get leaner, but for now, you don't need that much. The most important thing is to have your diet fit your lifestyle and to make sure that it is something that you can stick to day in and day out.

A sample day I would suggest is: 2000 Calories, 180g protein, 75g fat, rest carbs/your choice.

Regarding protein powder, it is largely a matter of convenience. I do take several scoops a day because I do not like to spend time preparing meals when I could be playing video games. Again, note that my diet is catered to my lifestyle. Whether you choose to take shakes or not is up to you. Some say that shakes don't fill them up when compared to real food, which I definitely agree with. There's certainly no harm in taking protein shakes though, so do what you like.

Regarding meal timing, it is largely irrelevant. The only time I really focus on getting a meal in is after my workouts. Other than that, do what fits your lifestyle.

For marinating and other cooking methods, it is extremely difficult to gauge exactly how many calories your marinade added. However, I will say this: the amount it adds will be largely trivial when compared to the overall deficit that your body is in. Unless you're literally dousing your food in oil, the added calories are negligible.

The take home advice for your diet is obviously to work with something that you can be consistent with. You could have the best plan in the world, and if you can't stick to it for more than a day, you will fail. Even if it isn't optimal, a slow and steady plan will be more likely to succeed.

Now let's move on to training.

Your workout regimen is fine. But do your squats. Don't argue, just do them.

I tend not to add more calories even when I do cardio because my diet is solid enough to cover the added burned calories without putting me at risk of burning away muscle. Unless you're marathoning every day, you don't need to up your intake to cover. If, after some trial and error, you find that you're just too exhausted from cardio and it is hurting your gym performance...then maybe you can tweak the calories up, but we'll worry about that when there is a need for it.

Supplement wise, fish oil is good and you can take fat burners and all that jazz, but none of it will do anything noticeable unless your diet is in check...so worry about that first.

Aside from that, everything looks good. Keep us updated on your progress and hopefully I or other members of this forum can help you out along the way.

Good luck! I hope this helps.

[kimchi4prez]

Thanks for the replies.

The one thing I like about the three protein powders a day is

1. How fast and easy it is. Especially upon waking. I had thought I read that breaking the 8 hour sleep fast with protein in the morning is vital. I don't have the brain capacity or appetite to make and eat 3 eggs and toast as soon as I wake up but I can drink powder.

2. Pre Workout Whey seems like a great idea. A meal means that I need to sit down and eat 11-12 oz of food that takes digesting which means blood is in my stomach rather than my muscles. and stomach pains/cramps aren't exactly fun while working out.

3. Post workout whey is just standard with some sort of fructose drink. I choose juice rather than gatorade or any other supplements because I'm cheap and I like the taste and micro nutrients.

I think I need to cut one of them out though and I'm thinking the breakfast one. I'm also going to eat a tbsp of peanut butter in between my cardio classes to increase fats. That still only leaves me at 55 grams of fat. I'm going to buy coconut fat the next time I go shopping and see how I can switch up my macros to add more fat into my diet.

What do you think an ideal weight for an Asian 6'0 male is? I was shooting for 180 but, I've also heard that Asians generally have lighter and sometimes smaller bones. I might have to start thinking about 170 :O

So far I have pretty good energy throughout the day. I'm sluggish in the morning but, since I walk to school it wakes me up pretty quickly and I make sure to get a solid 7-8 hours of sleep a night.

[bakyhama]

At 6'0", my opinion is that you should be 200 lbs with a dense set of abs and a ferocious scowl on your face.

But that's just my opinion...

As an Asian coming from a place full of Asians, it disgusts me to see our brethren walking around at 130 lbs. Even at a paltry 166 lbs, I outweigh most of my friends by a good 15 lbs, and I'm a freaking twig. It's pathetic. Yes, we all have abs. Wooptie doo.

Also regarding fats.................

Have you heard of bacon? :-D