Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[saw7988]

Couple questions guys.

1. Is fasted training not an option if I don't have BCAA's, or is it worth it to do it anyway? Or I could just wait for a pre workout meal.

2. I usually feed from 4-10pm. Today, for business reasons, I need to eat lunch at 12:30. Should I just shift my feeding window back to 12:30-8:30 or just have that meal be an outlier and keep the rest of my feeding between 4 and 10pm?

Thanks!

[Jorge0886]

1. General consensus on this board seems to be 20% -/+ on off/training days.

2. Keep your window the same if possible. Don't worry about a few drinks, get back on it the next day. I usually keep protein high, carbs low before having a few beers. Same for the day after.

3. Cycle, whether you cut/bulk doesn't really matter for ratio's.



I would not call it binge eating since it is A) controlled, B) with a purpose and C) not problematic. But I don't know the exact definition of 'binge' eating.

What does it matter anyway, as long as you do it in such a way that it is your intention.. (like with IF) it's no problem, right?

edit: definition; A period of unrestrained, immoderate self-indulgence.

I agree

[milkneggs786]

We are all waiting for the book for details, but most of us agree on the +20% cals on trainingdays and -20% on restdays for recomp.
So 2800+560 etc.etc. you can do the math
Bcaa are only needed intra fasted workouts, but i just like the taste of xtend so i always sip them during my non-fasted workouts

Thank you for the info! Boy, this IF nutrition plan is gonna save me a ton of money spent on supplements, as well as time in general. I used to take BCAA's upon waking, before/after WO, in the middle of the day , before i go to sleep, and in the middle of the night. I cant believe how much money I have thrown away over the last couple of years, lol.

Thanks again!

[Dameem]

Definitely answered a lot of my questions. That means I can't incorporate my refeed on a work day, since that would leave me 6 hours post-workout without food intake if I'm on IF. I assume a one-day refeed is fine for me on a Saturday, then. Thank you so much! Repped!

Or you can train later than usual.
Notice though that It's recommended to do a full body workout on carb up days.
Glad to help

[FitDad327]

edit: definition; A period of unrestrained, immoderate self-indulgence.

So that would make the definition of IF: A period of planned, immoderate self indulgence?

I love IF

[Dexter3000]

So that would make the definition of IF: A period of planned, immoderate self indulgence?

I love IF

A period of restrained, immoderate self indulgence?

Love it too

[luisvp]

this time for meals is good or i need eat afternoon?

9:00/9:30am pre-workout
only protein and fat

11:00/11:30 post-workout
only carb and protein

12:00am at 10:00pm in job

[PuffinMyLye]

this time for meals is good or i need eat afternoon?

9:00/9:30am pre-workout
only protein and fat

11:00/11:30 post-workout
only carb and protein

12:00am at 10:00pm in job

I'm assuming you meant 12pm-10pm you work. If you want to eat all your meals between the time you wake up (assuming it's after 3:30-4am) and 11:30am-12pm that would be fine.

[luisvp]

Yes, I work from 12:00 to 22:00.
thank you

[PuffinMyLye]

Yes, I work from 12:00 to 22:00.
thank you

Just a bit of advice, try to make that post-workout meal your biggest.

[gymbeam]

Ok so Iv looked through the different threads and after looking on the leangains site I cant find the exact workout that martin recommends. Im assuming its some form of doing the main big lifts (squat, bench, chins) 3 days a week?

I was just wondering if someone could shed some light. Or if anyone has a link to a similar style of training they think is good. etc

I have been doing a 5 day split up until now and I am interested in changing things up.

Thanks.

[luisvp]

yes, this is my diet:

Pre-workout
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

Post-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

I have 5,58ft / 132 lb / 21 years

[knoxxelig]

do you calculate the TEF into your daily energy balance (esp. when cutting) ?

[luisvp]

yes, but i go make bulking

[docchio]

This thread is getting a bit waterlogged with stupid questions so im gonna attempt to clear a few things up, as this may pave the way for some more detailed and engaging branches of discussion

Leangains fasting window RECOMMENDED is 16 hour minimum fast, with a 8 hour eating window.

**AS LONG AS YOU FAST FOR A MINIMUM OF 16 HOURS THE SIZE OF YOUR EATING WINDOW IS NOT IMPORTANT*

Although it is recommended that your post workout meal is the largest this IS NOT essential. Make up your own mind in regards to WHEN and HOW MUCH you will eat. Eat once, or twice, or 16 times if it makes you happy in your pants....it doesnt really matter. If you wish to fast for 20 hours go ahead. If you wish to fast for 23 and eat one meal do that too. The basic premise of leangains is to have at least a 16 hour fast.

Martin trains 3 times a week. Monday Wed Fri. Back-Chest-Legs

This is HIS program (as far as he says), it DOESNT HAVE TO be yours. Do a program you enjoy, and allows adequate rest. BE CAREFUL of overtraining. The most important part of training, and having a good program is listening to your body, knowing when to beast it, and knowing when to back off. If you are not conditioned and have not been training for a lengthy period of time do not attempt a program that is going to cause you to burn out, as this is detremental to your health.

Fit leangains into your lifestlye and enjoy it.

[milkneggs786]

^^^^^
Short, concise, and informative. Thanks for the summary!

I just wanted to add some observations and comments for those who are just starting IF. I started IF a couple of days ago and I was, like many, intitally worried about losing strength and intensity during my fasted workouts. My first workout was a little tough to get through, but my second one was very different. I started out kind of flat feeling, but after about ten mins, my blood really started going and I had one of the most focused/intense workout ive had in a long while. Also the pump I had going through out the whole workout was pretty amazing. It was skin splitting.

Id just want to tell people to ease their way into IF, and the results will speak for themselves.

Quick question though, will putting some ground cinnamon into your coffee during your fast hurt anything. Im guessing not, because Mr. Berkhan said its ok to put a small dash of milk in your coffee, so Im guessing cinnamon wouldnt effect anything. But I figured Id pose the question anyway just to make sure.

[luisvp]

I had to change my schedule
6:30am workout

8:00am 1ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

11:30am 2ºpost-workout
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

or

6:30am workout

8:00am 1ºpost-workout
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

11:30am 2ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

which one is better?

[Resolutioner]

Also the pump I had going through out the whole workout was pretty amazing. It was skin splitting.

+1

Ever since switching to IF I've gotten the best pumps.

[sportyaccordy]

It took me about a month to get used to lifting fasted

For a low volume regimen it works beautifully... I just can't let go of that last bit of volume in my bulk. Should be a breeze in a cut though

[ChinoZ32]

This thread is getting a bit waterlogged with stupid questions so im gonna attempt to clear a few things up, as this may pave the way for some more detailed and engaging branches of discussion

Leangains fasting window RECOMMENDED is 16 hour minimum fast, with a 8 hour eating window.

**AS LONG AS YOU FAST FOR A MINIMUM OF 16 HOURS THE SIZE OF YOUR EATING WINDOW IS NOT IMPORTANT*

Although it is recommended that your post workout meal is the largest this IS NOT essential. Make up your own mind in regards to WHEN and HOW MUCH you will eat. Eat once, or twice, or 16 times if it makes you happy in your pants....it doesnt really matter. If you wish to fast for 20 hours go ahead. If you wish to fast for 23 and eat one meal do that too. The basic premise of leangains is to have at least a 16 hour fast.

Martin trains 3 times a week. Monday Wed Fri. Back-Chest-Legs

This is HIS program (as far as he says), it DOESNT HAVE TO be yours. Do a program you enjoy, and allows adequate rest. BE CAREFUL of overtraining. The most important part of training, and having a good program is listening to your body, knowing when to beast it, and knowing when to back off. If you are not conditioned and have not been training for a lengthy period of time do not attempt a program that is going to cause you to burn out, as this is detremental to your health.

Fit leangains into your lifestlye and enjoy it.

+1

Couldn't have said it any better. People get too caught up with minor details and broscience, it's the concept that works. Martin lays it out clearly, no what if this what if that. Amen brother.

[docchio]

I should have also added a section about fasted training:

Fasted training has been shown to have some alleged benefits:

http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fas...le-growth.html

However, once again, wether or not you decide to train fasted is ENTIRELY up to personal preference. Do not feel like you have to train fasted, and do not force yourself to do something that your body is telling you it does not want to do.

BCAA's should be consumed before fasted training, but there are people who do not consume anything prior to training and have fantastic physiques. ITS UP TO YOU if you eat before training, once again you must show some initiative and not be so concerned about every minute detail.

SO

Fast MINIMUM 16 hours
Train fasted or not fasted its UP TO YOU
Eat whenever you want as long you have fasted for 16 hours
Sugar free drinks/coffee/tea/water/sugar free gum are all acceptable during the fast
Your training program is entirely up to you.

The LEANGAINS GUIDE PDF. Read it !! ! !
http://doubleyourgains.com/musclebui...oach_Final.pdf
The leangains guide: READ ALL ASSOCIATED LINKS LISTED THROUGHOUT THE GUIDE:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html



Martin's views on diet:
http://fitnessblackbook.com/diet-tip...-loss-plateau/
http://www.leangains.com/search/labe...20Carb%20Diets
Martin's views on cheat days/special occasion:
http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Fat%20Loss
Martin's views on alcohol consumption:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/tru...nd-muscle.html
Some of Martin's views on training (great read):
http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/10-...-training.html
http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/10-...-training.html
http://freetheanimal.com/2010/11/lea...-approach.html

[Jonesy08]

Fit leangains into your lifestlye and enjoy it.

Great post Docchio. I find people are almost trying to make this more complicated than it is and needs to be. Just fast for at least 16 hours, eat your cals (goal dependent), lift weights 3 or more times per week and profit.

The program's simplicity and ease of adherence is it's true benefit's for me personally.

[docchio]

I had to change my schedule
6:30am workout

8:00am 1ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

11:30am 2ºpost-workout
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

or

6:30am workout

8:00am 1ºpost-workout
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

11:30am 2ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

which one is better?

Please read:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
And:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821


And honestly, if your doing Leangains, and your debating if your carbohydrate should be consumed during your first or second post workout feeding, i hate to say it but you have not done enough reading or research... in fact you probably have not even read the guide. Not good.

[docchio]

Great post Docchio. I find people are almost trying to make this more complicated than it is and needs to be. Just fast for at least 16 hours, eat your cals (goal dependent), lift weights 3 or more times per week and profit.

The program's simplicity and ease of adherence is it's true benefit's for me personally.

Exactly!

People are completely missing the point of Leangains. I dont think its something you should really do unless you first have a good grasp of the irrelevence of meal timing, macronutrient and caloric requirements, and most of all the time and effort applied to reading all the information that Martin has provided FREE OF CHARGE. It bothers me that people are gonna try and use Leangains and its gonna get them ****ty results, and they are going to blame leangains and Martin, not the fact they are lazy and too ignorant to conduct any kind of lengthy research into a method they are living their life by. I can imagine this becoming a problem which could potentially make Martin look bad.....

There is no excuse now as you have been hand fed many valuable links in my other post above. Hand fed like small turtles, mindlessly swimming through the undergrowth of a murky stream.

This is why we need the book lol !

[ChinoZ32]

It's the same with most programs/routines. People will always miss something, underestimate this overestimate that, ignore this and ignore that, then they start blaming for not getting their desired results. They only have themselves to blame.

Another great post docchio.

The concept is what counts, adjust it based on your lifestyle. I don't follow all the rules. Martin says that a fast greater than 16hrs isn't that much more beneficial, but on my non-lift days they extend a fair bit more. Why? Because I find it works for me. Martin lays out what and what doesn't break a fast, ie. milk amounts in coffee. I break that sometimes too, hell it doesn't seem to have made an impact for me. Etc etc. Don't get caught up with the details and just start the basics. 16hr fast minimum, 8 hour feeding window. Fit that around your lifestyle, it shouldn't be the other way around. This is meant to liberate us, it has for me. With the added bonus psychologically, strength/performance, and automagically it has increased my daily maintenance calorie intake (more NOM for me).

[luisvp]

Sorry, wrong post. This is the correct:
6:30am workout

8:00am 1ºpost-workout

11:30am 2ºpost-workout

or

6:30am 1º meal

8:00 workout

11:30am 1ºpost-workout

which one is better?

[docchio]

Sorry, wrong post. This is the correct:
6:30am workout

8:00am 1ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

11:30am 2ºpost-workout
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

or

6:30am 1º meal
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

8:00 workout

11:30am 1ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

which one is better?

Whichever one you prefer, wont make a difference at the end of the day

[luisvp]

thank you docchio, i make this:
6:30am 1º meal
60gr. protein
25gr. fat

8:00 workout

11:30am 1ºpost-workout
250 gr. carbo
95 gr. protein

[JavaT]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF (Intermittent Fasting) is a novel approach to dieting / training created by Martin Berkhan.
You can learn more about this approach, and the man himself at his blog, Lean Gains.

The original thread by Martin can be found here: Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part One.

As board policy states that threads are closed when they reach 10,000... Therefore PART TWO was begun...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS THREAD, however, is started for women who have either just begun Intermittent Fasting, or who are experienced IF'ers, to address questions and concerns common to women while trying to follow the protocols of Intermittent Fasting and its varied approaches.

I began IF'g on Sunday, February 27th. Daunted at the prospect of a 14-hour fasting period, I wasn't sure what to expect in the way of success and sustainability. I found, however, like many who have shared their experiences, that after the first couple of days my body began to adjust, my energy levels increased, and I began feeling more focused and controlled. It was the "look, ma, no hands" kind of feeling, and I was greatly encouraged.

And then...that time of the month hits on Monday of this past week. As much as I tried to adhere to the protocol and hang on during the fasting window, I could NOT control the incredible, insurmountable hunger pangs that accompany those 2-3 days of the month with my menstrual cycle. And as a result, all hell broke loose and I crashed and burned -- I binged big time, beginning Tuesday night and all day Wednesday.

I'm starting to feel somewhat back to normal today, but I'm very annoyed and frustrated. I'm hoping to get back the control I had a few days ago and try to make IF'g work for me as it has for many others, my goal being to lose body fat (10-15 lbs) by June.

My plan currently: Fasting window begins at 9:00 pm nightly, lasts through 11:00 or 12:00 noon the next day (depending on my work schedule). I train Monday and Thursdays after work, as well as Saturday mornings. I do LISS cardio 4-5 days a week, 30 mins, in the mornings; as well as 20 mins s/s cardio following weight training on training days. I am experimenting with finding the magic number of carbs for training days; that's still a work in progress. I allow Saturdays to be my highest day in calories, usually around 2200-2500. The other two training days were kept to about 1800 cals. Cardio/rest days were at 1500 cals.

If there are other females out there who read this thread and can shed light on how you manage these monthly hunger and craving challenges while trying to practice IF'g, please share your experiences here.

As well, there may be other questions or concerns that women may want to share on this thread that relate to intermittent fasting, fat loss, training and/or nutrition.

[docchio]

I am not a female (obviously haha), but i think it is perfectly fine if you simply dont fast during those periods in which you find it difficult. It will not make a difference in the long run.