Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[bassitos]

Too low, in my opinion. You're young and you're lightweight, so I think you should go pretty hard on your bulk. Without going through all the calculations and just using 20xbodyweight as a way to estimate bulking calories, I'd say 2500 on workout days and 2000 on off days (at a minimum). Try that out and see how it goes...

well, i was really fat when i was young, so i have some fear concerning bulking hardly
20x it is not so high?

thanks for reply (:

[UNTILthen]

Man, I just broke fast w/ my PWO meal and I freakin nailed it! I started IF this week and I've been struggling to get in my target cals, especially on weight training days. I put together a serious PWO meal today and had no trouble taking it down! And man it feels good...I crushed some serious cals!

-whey protein shake (skim milk + 2 scoops of whey)
-1 cup of lasagna
-6 oz pork tenderloin
-1/2 cup lima beans
-2 slices of whole wheat cinnamon chip bread

1153 calories
26g fat
121g carbs
115g protein

[zmustang]

Hmmm, well that does conflict with my experience... perhaps there's nothing to it

I certainly had more bloating from large meals when I first started IFing, it becomes less and less, even after 7 months I still think my body is becoming more and more comfortable with my feeding pattern. I used to just want to whale out on the couch after eating my train day cals in the evening but now I feel like flexing in the mirror lol. Also, like you said, I would wake up feeling pretty full after my high cal days but now I roll out of bed lean and mean.

[Jenslyn17]

I certainly had more bloating from large meals when I first started IFing, it becomes less and less, even after 7 months I still think my body is becoming more and more comfortable with my feeding pattern. I used to just want to whale out on the couch after eating my train day cals in the evening but now I feel like flexing in the mirror lol. Also, like you said, I would wake up feeling pretty full after my high cal days but now I roll out of bed lean and mean.

Cool

When you say bloat, you mean like an overall bloat like I do, right? That you, overall, feel less ripped. Many just refer to their bellies when they they're bloated

I'm pretty sure I notice a conection. Seems I look my worst all over in the hours following a big meal

[zmustang]

Cool

When you say bloat, you mean like an overall bloat like I do, right? That you, overall, feel less ripped. Many just refer to their bellies when they they're bloated

I'm pretty sure I notice a conection. Seems I look my worst all over in the hours following a big meal

well as for the feeling post meal, I meant stomach mostly, I think having the bloated stomach feeling may make your proportions seem a little worse so you would feel or look (to yourself) less ripped. and in the morning I meant over all, I would be at my flattest overall in the morning when I got up but now I wake up nice and lean and energized.

[FitDad327]

Cool

When you say bloat, you mean like an overall bloat like I do, right? That you, overall, feel less ripped. Many just refer to their bellies when they they're bloated

I'm pretty sure I notice a conection. Seems I look my worst all over in the hours following a big meal

I workout at 7:30 pm, eat my largest meal ~1600 cals and then go to bed around 9:30. When I first wake up 6-7 hours later I look "puffy". This isn't really the right word, but I do feel like I look less defined. Within a couple of hours (and after the bathroom) everthing goes back to normal. Had that happen this morning actually. At4:30 am looked like crap, but by 7 I looked normal like I did before my big meal last night. This seems to be pretty normal for me. I am still relatively new to eating so much food in one sitting.

[romajc]

Will pay $100 for incomplete LeanGains book. Just send me whatever you have so far.

When the hell is this thing coming out?

Results section of LeanGains is crazy.

[Dexter3000]

Will pay $100 for incomplete LeanGains book. Just send me whatever you have so far.

When the hell is this thing coming out?

Results section of LeanGains is crazy.

All you need to know is on leangains.com. Spend some time, read, learn, apply, profit.

[sportyaccordy]

Too low, in my opinion. You're young and you're lightweight, so I think you should go pretty hard on your bulk. Without going through all the calculations and just using 20xbodyweight as a way to estimate bulking calories, I'd say 2500 on workout days and 2000 on off days (at a minimum). Try that out and see how it goes...

20x bodyweight is nuts, coach class ticket to fatville!!!

Dude is a special case because he's so skinny, but even still, 2200 cals for him is 17x BW which is reasonable for a noob. Dude just has to make sure he works hard in the gym

[romajc]

All you need to know is on leangains.com. Spend some time, read, learn, apply, profit.

I have read everything on leangains numerous times.

Still haven't seen anyone who didn't get counseling from Martin make nearly as much progress as his clients.

So there is definitely more to the nutrient breakdown that has not been discussed on the site.

I want the book

[bassitos]

20x bodyweight is nuts, coach class ticket to fatville!!!

Dude is a special case because he's so skinny, but even still, 2200 cals for him is 17x BW which is reasonable for a noob. Dude just has to make sure he works hard in the gym

That is what i was wondering, 17x or 16x reasonable, no?

thanks!

[PBateman2]

That is what i was wondering, 17x or 16x reasonable, no?

thanks!

How tall are you?

[bassitos]

How tall are you?

167 cm

[tygeruppercut]

Thats some SIIICK progress! Keep training hard.

amazing man. congrats!!!

[PBateman2]

167 cm

So being approx 5ft 5 in and 128lbs (male and assume noob status), I dont see the huge issue of starting anywhere in the 18-20cals/pound of BW range - IMHO. That would put you roughly in the 2500 calorie range.

Your decision though.

You have probably read this link but just in case:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

GL.

[tygeruppercut]

Has anyone lost any significant strenght utilizing this program?

[trader vlad]

Has anyone lost any significant strenght utilizing this program?

been doing it for 3 weeks now, still setting PR's one some lifts, staying the same on others.

[bassitos]

It is almolst 2100-2200 my calorie, i will take 2400-2500 on workout and lower to 1800-1900 off days....to much, to low?

[trader vlad]

Question: I train BJJ/MMA which is mostly moderate-to-intense cardio work out. The sessions take place at the end of my feed window, 8-9pm. Martin talks about how he doesnt not like moderate to high intensity cardio work outs because they are catabolic. What's the most optimum way to mitigate the catabolism in your opinion?

I do these MMA trainings twice a week on off-lifting days. I drink protein/oats/blueberries shake before the training shesh, then Xtend (bcaa's) during and after training. You think this is optimal?

[PBateman2]

It is almolst 2100-2200 my calorie, i will take 2400-2500 on workout and lower to 1800-1900 off days....to much, to low?

Sounds decent. Off days I would keep it at ~1900-2000 cals.

[bassitos]

Sounds decent. Off days I would keep it at ~1900-2000 cals.

Ok, ill bump it up with fats, thanks for the help (:

3,3 g/kg prot, 3,5 g/kg carbs and 1,4 g/kg ON days
3,3 g/kg prot, 1,5 g/kg carbs and 1,6 g/kg OFF days

what do you think?

thanks (:

[PBateman2]

Ok, ill bump it up with fats, thanks for the help (:

3,3 g/kg prot, 3,5 g/kg carbs and 1,4 g/kg ON days
3,3 g/kg prot, 1,5 g/kg carbs and 1,6 g/kg OFF days

what do you think?

thanks (:

Lol..had to do the metrics on this one. Based on ~58kg, yes your macros sound good for on/off days.

[PerpetualMotion]

Question: I train BJJ/MMA which is mostly moderate-to-intense cardio work out. The sessions take place at the end of my feed window, 8-9pm. Martin talks about how he doesnt not like moderate to high intensity cardio work outs because they are catabolic. What's the most optimum way to mitigate the catabolism in your opinion?

I do these MMA trainings twice a week on off-lifting days. I drink protein/oats/blueberries shake before the training shesh, then Xtend (bcaa's) during and after training. You think this is optimal?

Ensuring the proper pre- and post-workout supplementation should make it fine. I don't think rolling in BJJ is catabolic at all. Even then, it seems like you're supplementing perfectly.

[JavaT]

I've read through 31 pgs of this thread, and there are SO FEW women doing the LeanGains protocol.

Am I missing something?

Can we not benefit from this too -- in my case, my goal is FAT LOSS, preserving LBM.

(By the way, I've read almost every word on the LeanGains website/blog)

[mmx25]

New IF/Leangains practitioner here...

For those of you that are actively doing it, is there a significant difference between training fasted versus having a pre workout shake? I haven't bought a dedicated BCAA product like Xtend yet so I've been doing 2 scoops of whey (for about 10g of BCAA) pre workout.

Also, is there a specific calorie recommendation for cutting with regards to Leangains? 16x?

And has anyone tried using EC for the fast?

[JavaT]

New IF/Leangains practitioner here...

For those of you that are actively doing it, is there a significant difference between training fasted versus having a pre workout shake? I haven't bought a dedicated BCAA product like Xtend yet so I've been doing 2 scoops of whey (for about 10g of BCAA) pre workout.

Also, is there a specific calorie recommendation for cutting with regards to Leangains? 16x?

And has anyone tried using EC for the fast?

Have you read the LeanGains Guide on the website/blog? It addresses most of these Q's.

And from what I understand, TWO SCOOPS of whey would break the fast more so than the BCAA's.

[Shazriki]

New IF/Leangains practitioner here...

For those of you that are actively doing it, is there a significant difference between training fasted versus having a pre workout shake? I haven't bought a dedicated BCAA product like Xtend yet so I've been doing 2 scoops of whey (for about 10g of BCAA) pre workout.

Also, is there a specific calorie recommendation for cutting with regards to Leangains? 16x?

And has anyone tried using EC for the fast?

Whey breaks the fast, so just make sure you start your eating window immediately post workout. You should still reap the benefits from what I've read (don't do fasted training personally).

Regarding calories just determine your macros for the day and meet them any way you choose throughout your feeding window. There is no general recommendation as these numbers vary widely depending on the individual concerned.

[saw7988]

I've been reading up on the leangains site and find the approach really interesting. One major question I have is is muscle catabolism a concern at all with this longer 16 hour fast? I know he says to have a slow protein like casein or a meal with fiber or fat before you start the fast, but is that really enough? Seems like even a slower meal will leave you with at least 6-8 hours of empty stomach...

[mmx25]

I've been reading up on the leangains site and find the approach really interesting. One major question I have is is muscle catabolism a concern at all with this longer 16 hour fast? I know he says to have a slow protein like casein or a meal with fiber or fat before you start the fast, but is that really enough? Seems like even a slower meal will leave you with at least 6-8 hours of empty stomach...

I started doing 2 scoops of optimum casein before bed, and I don't get hungry until a few hours before I am scheduled to break the fast. That gap is easy to bridge with a calorie free drink. To address the other aspect of your question, note that there are plenty of people here who are doing the protocol and have not lost muscle. Personally, my strength has only gone up and I'm doing a fairly dramatic cut.

[PBateman2]

I've read through 31 pgs of this thread, and there are SO FEW women doing the LeanGains protocol.

Am I missing something?

Can we not benefit from this too -- in my case, my goal is FAT LOSS, preserving LBM.

(By the way, I've read almost every word on the LeanGains website/blog)

Dont see any reason why not to give it a shot!

I've been reading up on the leangains site and find the approach really interesting. One major question I have is is muscle catabolism a concern at all with this longer 16 hour fast? I know he says to have a slow protein like casein or a meal with fiber or fat before you start the fast, but is that really enough? Seems like even a slower meal will leave you with at least 6-8 hours of empty stomach...

Catabolism? You should see the way I train on a 16hr fast. I wont get into results Thats just me though.

Catabolism is such an overblown phenomenon not only on this site but in the supplement industry as well (they have to do it though - they want your money).

The only thing you can do is to try the IF protocol if you like, see your results, see how you feel, and make a decision based on that.