Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[brutalpl0x]

just read it and all i can say is wtf i didnt understand a word lol

Same. I got about 3 paragraphs into it and decided I didn't care enough to continue =]

[vitornoob]

Just started the IF diet a couple days ago. Usually do keto and get great results but was pretty much doing this without realizing it so figured I'd give it a try.

My one question is I hear it mentioned quite a bit that you should consume the largest part of you cals post work out, is that necessary for getting results? reason is I'm not hungry after I train and only have a shake. my largest intake is later at night, is this a problem?

So, your dinner is after workout.....if it fits your intake and it is good for you, no problem, a lot of people do this, and even Martin says that is possible


Ok, i have a question. Do you workout abs? Does anyone know some compound exercise for chest and abs??

[tjwoody]

Ok, hardest part of day 1 past me. had my lunch and preWO meal and heading out to gym shortly.

cant wait to get home and have all these cals saved up for dinner! sorta thinking of some granola, cereal, greek yogurt after a chicken wrap!

[gbg]

So, your dinner is after workout.....if it fits your intake and it is good for you, no problem, a lot of people do this, and even Martin says that is possible


Ok, i have a question. Do you workout abs? Does anyone know some compound exercise for chest and abs??

Thanks Yes I do, I'm an Olympic lifter so I don't train for hypertrophy, rather strength and assistance for the lifts. So I do Russian twists, ab wheel, overhead squats primarily for abs.

[vitornoob]

Thanks Yes I do, I'm an Olympic lifter so I don't train for hypertrophy, rather strength and assistance for the lifts. So I do Russian twists, ab wheel, overhead squats primarily for abs.

haha, the question was for everybody, but thanks for the tips (:

[Backus24]

Do any of you guys workout earlier in the day, but start your feeding window pretty late in the day as opposed to close to post workout?

I'm in school so I like to workout while I'm still on campus, so most days that puts me in the gym either at 12-1 or 1-2, and I like my window to start around 8-midnight or 1.

I also down a scoop of whey prior to the workout.

I haven't follow IF per se until now, but I have eaten the majority of my calories late in the day prior to this after reading a lot of Alan and Lyle's work.

From what I gather though Martin wants you to eat pretty close to post workout.

[canuck17]

Do any of you guys workout earlier in the day, but start your feeding window pretty late in the day as opposed to close to post workout?

I'm in school so I like to workout while I'm still on campus, so most days that puts me in the gym either at 12-1 or 1-2, and I like my window to start around 8-midnight or 1.

I also down a scoop of whey prior to the workout.

I haven't follow IF per se until now, but I have eaten the majority of my calories late in the day prior to this after reading a lot of Alan and Lyle's work.

From what I gather though Martin wants you to eat pretty close to post workout.

Drinking a whey shake technically breaks your fast and opens your 8 hour feeding window. Therefore, you are actually following the 1 meal prior to working out somewhat with this whey shake prior. From the sounds of it, you would benefit from investing in some BCAA's. Take some prior to working out, and 10g or so every 2 hours after your workout until you break the fast. Although, if you are having such a long break between PW and eating almost everyday then perhaps try something like this:
-10g BCAA around 1230-1245.
-workout 1-2.
-whey shake between 230-330.
-get home and have massive meal around 7-8 with most, if not all of your daily calories.

Just a thought, you can tweak and modify something like this to best suit your needs but by drinking a whey shake prior to lifting you are breaking the fast.

[Backus24]

Drinking a whey shake technically breaks your fast and opens your 8 hour feeding window. Therefore, you are actually following the 1 meal prior to working out somewhat with this whey shake prior. From the sounds of it, you would benefit from investing in some BCAA's. Take some prior to working out, and 10g or so every 2 hours after your workout until you break the fast. Although, if you are having such a long break between PW and eating almost everyday then perhaps try something like this:
-10g BCAA around 1230-1245.
-workout 1-2.
-whey shake between 230-330.
-get home and have massive meal around 7-8 with most, if not all of your daily calories.

Just a thought, you can tweak and modify something like this to best suit your needs but by drinking a whey shake prior to lifting you are breaking the fast.

On leangains Martin advocates BCAA's, but also says if not them then a scoop of whey shouldn't make much difference. He also says that BCAA's technically break the fast as well.

"To summarize:

* Ideally, ingest 10 g branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or 10 g essential amino acids (EAA) 5-15 mins prior to training.

* Alternatively, ingest 30 g of whey protein 5-15 mins prior to training. This will yield similar amounts of BCAA as the above protocol. "

[vitornoob]

On leangains Martin advocates BCAA's, but also says if not them then a scoop of whey shouldn't make much difference. He also says that BCAA's technically break the fast as well.

"To summarize:

* Ideally, ingest 10 g branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or 10 g essential amino acids (EAA) 5-15 mins prior to training.

* Alternatively, ingest 30 g of whey protein 5-15 mins prior to training. This will yield similar amounts of BCAA as the above protocol. "

if i were you, i would keep something like BCAA or EAA until your feed window, but it is hard, i would say to take some food with you(0,20-25% kcal) just to make something best and not spend your money with huge portions of BCAA

[Backus24]

if i were you, i would keep something like BCAA or EAA until your feed window, but it is hard, i would say to take some food with you(0,20-25% kcal) just to make something best and not spend your money with huge portions of BCAA

I used Xtend for a few years, but after reading that BCAA's benefit are negligible if you are eating enough protein in one of Aragon's AARR's, I saved myself the money.

I may end up picking some more up, just to make my life easier. Money is also tight thanks to school so I may just stick with whey.

Regardless, I can really easily make it to 7 or 8pm without breaking the fast aside from the scoop of whey pre-workout.

I was just wondering if anyone here did that instead of the earlier eating window right after a workout.

[johnblythe]

Just started the IF diet a couple days ago. Usually do keto and get great results but was pretty much doing this without realizing it so figured I'd give it a try.

My one question is I hear it mentioned quite a bit that you should consume the largest part of you cals post work out, is that necessary for getting results? reason is I'm not hungry after I train and only have a shake. my largest intake is later at night, is this a problem?

nope, no problem. though there is an 'ideal' way of doing the LG protocol, martin continually hammers that adherence to the timing (8/16) is the key, so if that means you big later, then so be it. sticking to something somewhat less than ideal is still more ideal than shooting for ideal and giving up altogether.

do what works for you, do it within the 8 hour feeding window and you'll be good to go.

[wowbob396]

Drinking a whey shake technically breaks your fast and opens your 8 hour feeding window. Therefore, you are actually following the 1 meal prior to working out somewhat with this whey shake prior. From the sounds of it, you would benefit from investing in some BCAA's. Take some prior to working out, and 10g or so every 2 hours after your workout until you break the fast. Although, if you are having such a long break between PW and eating almost everyday then perhaps try something like this:
-10g BCAA around 1230-1245.
-workout 1-2.
-whey shake between 230-330.
-get home and have massive meal around 7-8 with most, if not all of your daily calories.

Just a thought, you can tweak and modify something like this to best suit your needs but by drinking a whey shake prior to lifting you are breaking the fast.

He says that if you don't have BCAAs that you can use whey protein.

[DeathTaco]

Postworkout meal:
~32F, ~252C, ~144P = ~1,872

amidoingitrite?

[Madevilz]

On leangains Martin advocates BCAA's, but also says if not them then a scoop of whey shouldn't make much difference. He also says that BCAA's technically break the fast as well.

"To summarize:

* Ideally, ingest 10 g branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or 10 g essential amino acids (EAA) 5-15 mins prior to training.

* Alternatively, ingest 30 g of whey protein 5-15 mins prior to training. This will yield similar amounts of BCAA as the above protocol. "

Where did he say that free form amino acids break the fast?

[Madevilz]

Postworkout meal:
~32F, ~252C, ~144P = ~1,872

amidoingitrite?

mirin' meal

[Backus24]

Where did he say that free form amino acids break the fast?

"Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal."

[johnblythe]

"Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal."

right, but he's also not strictly considering it as "breaking the fast" either.

[DeathTaco]

mirin' meal

All clean food too.

...next meal is strong popcorn and phish food/10 though :P

[Backus24]

right, but he's also not strictly considering it as "breaking the fast" either.

I'm aware, but in the same breath he also says that if you don't use BCAA's you could get away with a scoop of whey with not much difference.

So one would assume Martin himself has a preference for BCAA's, but doesn't think a scoop of whey is much more than just micromanagement and over analyzing.

Anyway, I think we're way off the point of my original question.

[mh1985]

thinking of employing IF for my cut/fat loss now. Do these macros look alright as a starting point:
200p/125c/75f
800cals p/ 500cals cho/ 675 cals fat = 1975 total

Not sure if I need more protein? and whether it might be better to up carbs on workout days slightly? Currently about 16%BF, been cutting for a week normally and down 1lb but fancy giving IF a try.

[ChinoZ32]

Chino, what do you eat on off days? Low carb ? If yes, which source? Starch, fructose, etc?

Yeap low carb. Lots of meat, fatty prep, and also lots of green fibrous vegetables.

I'll play devil's advocate Chino and say you got to go with what your comfortable with. It's not all about macro's. It's mental and physical too. If you are more comfortable eating certain types of foods just go with that, don't worry about the super fine grained details so much.

If it were me, I wouldn't even worry. Some days, I may go for the potato and meats and ice cream (if that's your thing) on other days I might have a cravings for huge plate full of steak and eggs. Listen to your body and it will say what it craves. There are many workout days some times I just do not have the ability to ingest huge quantities of carbs. Others, my body just soaks them right up like a sponge. On the days my body does't feel like it can soak up the carbs, I often notice I feel like crap after that higher carb meal (nausea, blood rushing to my stomach, light headed, etc) and wish I hadn't had it or lightened it up a bit.

Thanks man, so far everything is going perfectly. Just like you mentioned I usually feel like crap after a big high carb meal but it never happened yesterday. Everything I've done so far has been carefully planned and thought out and so far I've done well in tapering into the high carb world, adjustments in strength are happening nicely. I just love IF, too good sometimes but right now since I'm bulking up it's a whole new learning experience. I thought I'd have some overflow from yesterday but I feel and look better this morning, love it!

Edit: The other thing I might add is that I believe sometimes to get the result, one really needs to step out of his his/her comfort zone. So, this is all I'm pretty much doing is testing the waters and yeap, going great!

Wish I had this issue... (supersrs) lol

Haha sorry dude didn't mean to boast.

almond meal as coating, genius.

further genius.

you posted up any of these marinades you speak of?

hehe thanks! Nah sorry, I usually mix up any out of the shelf stuff I have in the kitchen.

Just started the IF diet a couple days ago. Usually do keto and get great results but was pretty much doing this without realizing it so figured I'd give it a try.

My one question is I hear it mentioned quite a bit that you should consume the largest part of you cals post work out, is that necessary for getting results? reason is I'm not hungry after I train and only have a shake. my largest intake is later at night, is this a problem?

Not a deal breaker, many prefer to have their biggest meals at night.

[DeathTaco]

End of day Macros:

~404C/46F/226P = ~2950 calories.

[tjwoody]

Postworkout meal:
~32F, ~252C, ~144P = ~1,872

amidoingitrite?

thats sweet!

thought i was good with my 1k! I do 2 meals before workout then the big post.

[DeathTaco]

massive foodbelly/10

pretty sure it's twins...lol

[tenacious707]

Just wanted to get some feedback on this set-up.. Basically I work 7am to 7pm.. Was going to do it as follows

BCAAs pre workout
4:15 am - 5:15 am workout
BCAAs post workout
1st meal at 9am
stop eating at 5pm.

Would that work or should I not wait that long to eat after my workout?

[rakearl]

I have been following an IF diet for 2 weeks now, and i'm loving it. Wish i'd taken the plunge into fasting sooner.
However i do have a question, how many calories breaks a fast? I take 10 fish oil capsules daily (for arthritis), with each being 10calories. Would i be better taking these during my 8 hour eating window? Or it is ok to take them in the mornings as i have been doing?

[ChinoZ32]

Just wanted to get some feedback on this set-up.. Basically I work 7am to 7pm.. Was going to do it as follows

BCAAs pre workout
4:15 am - 5:15 am workout
BCAAs post workout
1st meal at 9am
stop eating at 5pm.

Would that work or should I not wait that long to eat after my workout?

That looks fine to me. Personally I prefer to eat later so I wouldn't have my final meal too early, it would just be much more manageable for me that way. Also again as a personal preference I'd probably have another BCAA hit at around 7.

Early Morning Fasted Training

By looking at Martin's post here it seems he has set BCAA intake every two hours post workout when there is a big gap between workout and first meal.

Most clients maintain their 8-hour feeding-window between 12-2 pm and 8-10 pm on all days. For those doing early morning fasted training I have maintained that feeding window and added small feedings of BCAA pre- and post-workout.

Similar to fasted training, 10 g BCAA is ingested pre-workout. However, instead of initiating the feeding phase immediately post-workout, which is the standard protocol for regular fasted training, another 10 g BCAA is ingested two hours after the first. A third dose may then be ingested depending on when the client prefers his feeding-window.


Early morning fasted training

Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later.

6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
6-7 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

For the sake of convenience, I recommend getting BCAA in the form of powder and not tabs. Simply mix 30 g of BCAA powder in a shake and drink one third of it every other hour starting 5-15 minutes pre-workout. Tabs are cheaper, but much more of a hassle (you're going to have to pop a lot of tabs). Check my supplements guide for specific brand recommendations.

I have been following an IF diet for 2 weeks now, and i'm loving it. Wish i'd taken the plunge into fasting sooner.
However i do have a question, how many calories breaks a fast? I take 10 fish oil capsules daily (for arthritis), with each being 10calories. Would i be better taking these during my 8 hour eating window? Or it is ok to take them in the mornings as i have been doing?

Not sure of the exact number but I'm sure it would be ok. Is there a reason why you take it in the morning? I take my fish oil capsules in the middle of my feeding window.

Edit: rakearl: Just realised you are a Canberran, LULZ

[johnblythe]

I have been following an IF diet for 2 weeks now, and i'm loving it. Wish i'd taken the plunge into fasting sooner.
However i do have a question, how many calories breaks a fast? I take 10 fish oil capsules daily (for arthritis), with each being 10calories. Would i be better taking these during my 8 hour eating window? Or it is ok to take them in the mornings as i have been doing?

i can't remember exactly, but i want to say 70 calories is the tipping point. may want to browse LG to make sure (or wait for someone to confirm this). maybe spread out the fish oil? take 2 at a time every few hours? or just wait til the feeding window like you mentioned, unless of course it somehow would have adverse effects such as leaving you in pain up until that point in the day which would be no bueno

[Jonesy08]

I have been following an IF diet for 2 weeks now, and i'm loving it. Wish i'd taken the plunge into fasting sooner.
However i do have a question, how many calories breaks a fast? I take 10 fish oil capsules daily (for arthritis), with each being 10calories. Would i be better taking these during my 8 hour eating window? Or it is ok to take them in the mornings as i have been doing?

Just curious do you find the fish oil has bee helping much with the arthritis?

[rakearl]

i can't remember exactly, but i want to say 70 calories is the tipping point. may want to browse LG to make sure (or wait for someone to confirm this). maybe spread out the fish oil? take 2 at a time every few hours? or just wait til the feeding window like you mentioned, unless of course it somehow would have adverse effects such as leaving you in pain up until that point in the day which would be no bueno

Thanks... Strangely enough i had never thought about taking them at intervals through the day, lol. They are soo big an awkward i tend to take them all at once to get it over and done with, lol. I might just try taking 5 in the morning and 5 when i break my fast. It might be a case of trial and error.

Just curious do you find the fish oil has bee helping much with the arthritis?

Definitely!!!! I don't take any other medication for it, although you do have to take a large dose of fish oil, my specialist recommended anywhere from 10-24. I can't stomach 24, haha so decided to stick with 10. Within a fortnight i felt soo much better and the pain was almost non existant. Occasionally i might have a bad day, usually when i'm run down. So a bit of rest, and a small dose of an anti-inflammatory helps.