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Thread: ACE or NCSF?

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    Registered User GetHuge50's Avatar
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    ACE or NCSF?

    I'm going to be enrolling in a class to take one of these exams. Which should I take? Which is better?
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    Bdw4 bartwaldon's Avatar
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    Haha

    Originally Posted by GetHuge50 View Post
    I'm going to be enrolling in a class to take one of these exams. Which should I take? Which is better?
    Which one do YOU personally like the most? If it were up to me I would go with NCSF. It really doesn't matter though.
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    Originally Posted by GetHuge50 View Post
    I'm going to be enrolling in a class to take one of these exams. Which should I take? Which is better?
    ace
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    Originally Posted by bartwaldon View Post
    Which one do YOU personally like the most? If it were up to me I would go with NCSF. It really doesn't matter though.
    Personally I don't care. I would just rather get the one that is more accepted by most gyms. I think ACE may have a bigger name..
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    Yeah

    Originally Posted by GetHuge50 View Post
    Personally I don't care. I would just rather get the one that is more accepted by most gyms. I think ACE may have a bigger name..
    Ace probably has the biggest name recognition of any certification. But I've heard some negative about them and some of their trainers. It shouldn't matter though.
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    It don't matter. Neither will make you a better trainer
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    Originally Posted by GetHuge50 View Post
    I'm going to be enrolling in a class to take one of these exams. Which should I take? Which is better?
    Oddly enough I think you would learn more from ncsf but ace is easier and more recognized so do with that what you will
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    Originally Posted by unauthorized View Post
    It don't matter. Neither will make you a better trainer
    Yup ^
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    Why are the bottom certs your only choices?
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    Originally Posted by penafitness View Post
    Why are the bottom certs your only choices?
    If I had to guess it's probably because the top ones require you to have a degree. That's why I chose ACE.
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    Originally Posted by shadow9041 View Post
    If I had to guess it's probably because the top ones require you to have a degree. That's why I chose ACE.
    Interesting logic.
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    Originally Posted by RamsdenF View Post
    Interesting logic.
    Interestingly enough, a college education doesn't necessarily make a person a better trainer either.
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    Originally Posted by FyrFytr998 View Post
    Interestingly enough, a college education doesn't necessarily make a person a better trainer either.
    Couldn't disagree more.

    You will have the occasional anomaly....but someone with more knowledge will always trump one with lesser knowledge. It's not rocket science. I do understand the financial burden of college however. It's a choice one should decide very carefully. Choosing to invest in yourself has vast benefits.
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    Originally Posted by RamsdenF View Post
    Couldn't disagree more.

    You will have the occasional anomaly....but someone with more knowledge will always trump one with lesser knowledge. It's not rocket science. I do understand the financial burden of college however. It's a choice one should decide very carefully. Choosing to invest in yourself has vast benefits.
    I will politely disagree as well. Knowledge is indeed power, but a person does not need to step one foot into a college to acquire it. Going to college does not make a person a student. A person's desire to learn more is what makes them a student. My brother (who owns his own gym) is only online certified by ISSA, but yet he continues to acquire other certifications, and he damn near reads everything he gets his hands on. To include some of the very same texts CSCS's read in college. Is that not investing in one's self? I don't know, maybe he's an anomaly.

    So to put this back on topic. Go with the cert that will get you in the door. Which more than likely would be ACE. Get as much experience as possible, while continuing to learn everything you can about training. We live in an age where anything you want to know about is but a few key strokes away from learning it. You can literally learn something new everyday, and develop your communication skills. A happy client is a retained client.
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    Originally Posted by FyrFytr998 View Post
    I will politely disagree as well. Knowledge is indeed power, but a person does not need to step one foot into a college to acquire it. Going to college does not make a person a student. A person's desire to learn more is what makes them a student. My brother (who owns his own gym) is only online certified by ISSA, but yet he continues to acquire other certifications, and he damn near reads everything he gets his hands on. To include some of the very same texts CSCS's read in college. Is that not investing in one's self? I don't know, maybe he's an anomaly.

    So to put this back on topic. Go with the cert that will get you in the door. Which more than likely would be ACE. Get as much experience as possible, while continuing to learn everything you can about training. We live in an age where anything you want to know about is but a few key strokes away from learning it. You can literally learn something new everyday, and develop your communication skills. A happy client is a retained client.
    Let me guess, you didn't go to college.
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    Originally Posted by penafitness View Post
    Let me guess, you didn't go to college.
    I see what you're doing. I'll play along.

    I went to college after graduating 2nd in my HS class (Mechanical Engineering). Dropped out and joined the Marines, became a Phys. Ed teacher (private school) and sports program director (community center), and have been a firefighter for the last 14 years. All without a college education. And for the sake of honesty, yeah, I too am currently studying an online cert to help out with my brother's business. So what?

    While I still may be new to the field of personal training, I can say with certainty that I have seen plenty of college educated guys with their "Fire Sciences" degrees that are absolutely horrible firefighters. So no. More knowledge doesn't always equate to better effectiveness.

    So I ask. If a kid in college and a kid not in college read the same books, take the same tests, and pass with identical scores. What makes the kid who paid for that knowledge better than the kid who got it for free? Sorry. It just sounds elitist to me.
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    Originally Posted by FyrFytr998 View Post
    I see what you're doing. I'll play along.
    She's not trying to "manipulate you" pal....it's a very reasonable point. If one is not formally educated in the field, they will never support formal education in that context, since they would then represent a contradiction.
    I went to college after graduating 2nd in my HS class (Mechanical Engineering). Dropped out and joined the Marines, became a Phys. Ed teacher (private school) and sports program director (community center), and have been a firefighter for the last 14 years. All without a college education. And for the sake of honesty, yeah, I too am currently studying an online cert to help out with my brother's business. So what?
    So what? Well ummm lets start with the fact that you may not be qualified to be a personal trainer??

    All the other life history is well and good. You're probably an extremely hard worker and strive to be successful......but that won't make you a good personal trainer. I can try and try and try all I want(and study), but I doubt I will make a very good microbiologist without some formal education.
    While I still may be new to the field of personal training, I can say with certainty that I have seen plenty of college educated guys with their "Fire Sciences" degrees that are absolutely horrible firefighters. So no. More knowledge doesn't always equate to better effectiveness.
    True statement. But why not demand both? Education + effectiveness!
    So I ask. If a kid in college and a kid not in college read the same books, take the same tests, and pass with identical scores. What makes the kid who paid for that knowledge better than the kid who got it for free? Sorry. It just sounds elitist to me.
    You can cry elitist all you want.....but unfortunately for you(and your point of view) college is not just "reading books". If that were the case, I'd be against college too.
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    Originally Posted by RamsdenF View Post
    She's not trying to "manipulate you" pal....it's a very reasonable point. If one is not formally educated in the field, they will never support formal education in that context, since they would then represent a contradiction.

    So what? Well ummm lets start with the fact that you may not be qualified to be a personal trainer??

    All the other life history is well and good. You're probably an extremely hard worker and strive to be successful......but that won't make you a good personal trainer. I can try and try and try all I want(and study), but I doubt I will make a very good microbiologist without some formal education.

    True statement. But why not demand both? Education + effectiveness!

    You can cry elitist all you want.....but unfortunately for you(and your point of view) college is not just "reading books". If that were the case, I'd be against college too.
    1. There are many success stories in life where people have gone on to become successful in their fields with little to no formal education, pal. Being a contradiction doesn't negate that success. The room I sit in now is being provided light by a man that was a contradiction to formal education.

    2. Not qualified? Maybe. Maybe not. Fortunately for me and the OP, you don't get to decide that.

    3. I do demand effectiveness and education. I just happen to realize and accept that non-formal (structured out of class room learning) and informal (learning through experience) educations are just as valid as a formal education. Especially when combined. Louie Simmons anyone?

    4. You're right, college is not just reading books. Unfortunately for you (and your point of view), a formal college education is no longer the be all end all in getting a job. Many fields will hire someone with actual work experience over formal education nowadays, because at the end of the day it's all about whether you can produce results. Clients that see results and have a good relationship with their trainer could care less what type of alphabet soup they have after their name. I mean, isn't the point of personal training about getting your client to a point where they don't need you anymore?

    Whatever though, I won't begrudge you your opinion. Your value system is a lot higher than the industry standard. I wholly admit that the certification process needs revamping, but I doubt it's going to go away from distance learning to get certified. Even the NSCA, which hands out the coveted CSCS, is on that band wagon now (NSCA-CPT). Your only hope is if the government decides to make it a state licensed field.

    P.S. -Your quip about not being able to be a microbiologist through "reading and study only " is an opinion. Abraham Lincoln became a lawyer and Steve Irwin became a zoologist by reading and studying without ever setting a foot into college. Autodidacts (self taught people) are real, and not just regulated to famous people. You might be selling yourself short .

    I'm actually done entertaining this thread any further. I'm sure the OP has figured out what they want to do. No sense in derailing it further with more back and forth. Good luck OP and continued success to you Ram.

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    I know many with a CSCS certification who have degrees in things which have nothing to do with it (like English Lit, Philosophy, etc.). Rippetoe's degree is in Petroleum Engineering. Dan John's degree is in history or religion. Does Louie Simmons have any degree?
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    Originally Posted by cthulhupun View Post
    I know many with a CSCS certification who have degrees in things which have nothing to do with it (like English Lit, Philosophy, etc.). Rippetoe's degree is in Petroleum Engineering. Dan John's degree is in history or religion. Does Louie Simmons have any degree?
    BINGO!! ^^

    Don't forget Jim Wendler, bro. He has a degree in....


    .....English..


    (BTW, forgive my correction, but Rip's major was Petroleum Geology. )

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    Brutal reality is that paper credentials are not as nearly as crucial in the fitness industry as they are for success in most other fields (like engineering). If anything, people who really want to be 'educated' should major in 'People Skills.' Technical skills like designing a $250,000 robot, writing a program, teaching somebody how to squat, are EASY. Coaching (i.e. leadership, which requires people skills) is far more difficult to learn.

    Hard skills (technical skills) can be learned in the classroom thru the education of the mind, while soft skills (people skills) can only be learned in the real word thru the education of the HEART.
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    Do your research and get the cert that will give you the most career options for the TYPE of of people or gym's you feel you want to work with.

    Me personally, I decided to go back to school in a sports sciences program and although pretty tough, it was worth it for the vast amounts of knowledge I gained VS skipping it and going straight for national exam. Also the instructors I had were extremely professional and had many connections to various gyms, clubs and schools in the area should a student want to test right out of completing the program.
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    Originally Posted by unauthorized View Post
    It don't matter. Neither will make you a better trainer
    Probably true.
    To succeed at doing what you love, you often must do many things you hate.
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  23. #23
    Banned Oirad77's Avatar
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    ACE bro
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  24. #24
    Mr. Humble Ronin4help's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RamsdenF View Post
    Interesting logic.
    Exactly.
    To succeed at doing what you love, you often must do many things you hate.
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  25. #25
    Registered User bostondirtdog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FyrFytr998 View Post
    1. There are many success stories in life where people have gone on to become successful in their fields with little to no formal education, pal. Being a contradiction doesn't negate that success. The room I sit in now is being provided light by a man that was a contradiction to formal education.

    2. Not qualified? Maybe. Maybe not. Fortunately for me and the OP, you don't get to decide that.

    3. I do demand effectiveness and education. I just happen to realize and accept that non-formal (structured out of class room learning) and informal (learning through experience) educations are just as valid as a formal education. Especially when combined. Louie Simmons anyone?

    4. You're right, college is not just reading books. Unfortunately for you (and your point of view), a formal college education is no longer the be all end all in getting a job. Many fields will hire someone with actual work experience over formal education nowadays, because at the end of the day it's all about whether you can produce results. Clients that see results and have a good relationship with their trainer could care less what type of alphabet soup they have after their name. I mean, isn't the point of personal training about getting your client to a point where they don't need you anymore?

    Whatever though, I won't begrudge you your opinion. Your value system is a lot higher than the industry standard. I wholly admit that the certification process needs revamping, but I doubt it's going to go away from distance learning to get certified. Even the NSCA, which hands out the coveted CSCS, is on that band wagon now (NSCA-CPT). Your only hope is if the government decides to make it a state licensed field.

    P.S. -Your quip about not being able to be a microbiologist through "reading and study only " is an opinion. Abraham Lincoln became a lawyer and Steve Irwin became a zoologist by reading and studying without ever setting a foot into college. Autodidacts (self taught people) are real, and not just regulated to famous people. You might be selling yourself short .

    I'm actually done entertaining this thread any further. I'm sure the OP has figured out what they want to do. No sense in derailing it further with more back and forth. Good luck OP and continued success to you Ram.

    - sent via a tablet from a multibillion dollar company founded by two college drop outs
    I agree with you. I have a couple of undergrad degrees and a graduate degree. The more education I get, the more I realize how much I don't know. Your interactions with certain people here just highlight the fact that having a degree doesn't necessarily guarantee that someone knows how to think critically.
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  26. #26
    Registered User bluebarbell's Avatar
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    True. Ask around at gyms you want to work at see which is more accepted. In general ACE and NASM are pretty widely accepted at most fitness facilities.

    Originally Posted by GetHuge50 View Post
    Personally I don't care. I would just rather get the one that is more accepted by most gyms. I think ACE may have a bigger name..
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