The F35 fighter program is gonna cost $380,000,000,000.00+

[Chowboy]

No... You said I must be the chief engineer to know how the airframe was going to respond. A direct comment to my statements about lifespan.

My "other point" that you referred to was about the tech comparison.

Keep on digging gramps.

You are wasting my time and bandwidth.

see ya

[Rockchalk0420]

this aircraft is pretty amazing though. They say that most of the people who will piolet for the F35, havent even been born yet! This aircraft is definitely badass. The only thing that sucks is the US is the one investing the most in this program, while all the other countries leech off American ingenuity and capital. (it is a multi national project)

[Attaus]

I edited into my last post. It's not just STOVL. Three variations, that share 80% of their parts. STOVL, CATOBAR, and CTOL. Next-gen tech in radar jamming, radar evasion..etc.

[youtube]ZD-J1KksHUQ&[/yutube]

That makes more sense, but again, I don't think anyone has caught up to the F22 yet, so spending $380 billion that we don't have on a plane we don't yet need is ridiculous. We are spending a fortune and feeding Lockheed just so they can scare us into thinking that we aren't safe.

Look up the specs on the F35 CTOL vs the F22-A

brb less range

brb slower

brb less combat radius

brb less payload

[Rockchalk0420]

That makes more sense, but again, I don't think anyone has caught up to the F22 yet, so spending $380 billion that we don't have on a plane we don't yet need is ridiculous. We are spending a fortune and feeding Lockheed just so they can scare us into thinking that we aren't safe.

Look up the specs on the F35 CTOL vs the F22-A

brb less range

brb slower

brb less combat radius

brb less payload

Well, the F35 isnt designed to be like the F22, but rather compliment the F22. It is not designed to be an air superiority fighter, though it can pretty much do that role against 4.5 gen aircraft.

Its designed as a multi role fighter, which makes it more of a jack of all trades. It will eventually replace the aging F18s, as well as the aging harriers. Believe me, we need this aircraft to remain ahead of the pack.

I agree that we need to get our fiscal house in order, but this is not 380,000,000,000.00 a year...its rather a few billion per year annually.

[DocHol1day]

That makes more sense, but again, I don't think anyone has caught up to the F22 yet, so spending $380 billion that we don't have on a plane we don't yet need is ridiculous. We are spending a fortune and feeding Lockheed just so they can scare us into thinking that we aren't safe.

Look up the specs on the F35 CTOL vs the F22-A

brb less range

brb slower

brb less combat radius

brb less payload

the f-35 isnt replacing, or attempting to out do the f-22. its hard for people to understand how two fighters could be totally different, and equally necessary though. the f-22 is an fighter interceptor. its replacing the f-15. the f-35 is an air superiority fighter with air to ground capabilities. its a superior dog fighter because its more maneuverable. supersonic speeds dont matter in a dog fight at all, unless your running away . regardless, the f-22's, much like the f-15's in the 70's are too expensive to build an entire airfleet around. so we build a cheaper (per unit) plane like the f-16. the program is costing 380 billion, but were getting 1700 planes! the f-22 program cost 65 billion 10 years ago for less than 200 planes!

[fevr]

My point was we have more than capable fighters.. we don't need to cut military budget we need to spend it on something useful not another ****ing STOVL which is no more capable than an F22.

IN THIS THREAD

Morons that don't understand how a Marine Expeditionary Unit works.

[bmy-]

That makes more sense, but again, I don't think anyone has caught up to the F22 yet, so spending $380 billion that we don't have on a plane we don't yet need is ridiculous. We are spending a fortune and feeding Lockheed just so they can scare us into thinking that we aren't safe.

we're spending money on stuff that we do not need yet. if you need it, it's to late.

[...Rousseau...]

and it's worth every penny, unless you want to play second fiddle to china.

why not make a few more f 22s and a whole lotta drones

[Attaus]

Well, the F35 isnt designed to be like the F22, but rather compliment the F22. It is not designed to be an air superiority fighter, though it can pretty much do that role against 4.5 gen aircraft.

Its designed as a multi role fighter, which makes it more of a jack of all trades. It will eventually replace the aging F18s, as well as the aging harriers. Believe me, we need this aircraft to remain ahead of the pack.

I agree that we need to get our fiscal house in order, but this is not 380,000,000,000.00 a year...its rather a few billion per year annually.

Please tell me what this aircraft can do that the F22A cannot. It does not matter how you compound it, it's still $380 billion on a less than spectacular aircraft. The F22 was revolutionary for that very same reason. It can carry air to air missiles, or it can carry smart bombs with a payload substantial enough to take out ANY TARGET. Hence no need for another plane.

the f-35 isnt replacing, or attempting to out do the f-22. its hard for people to understand how two fighters could be totally different, and equally necessary though. the f-22 is an fighter interceptor. its replacing the f-15. the f-35 is an air superiority fighter with air to ground capabilities. its a superior dog fighter because its more maneuverable. supersonic speeds dont matter in a dog fight at all, unless your running away . regardless, the f-22's, much like the f-15's in the 70's are too expensive to build an entire airfleet around. so we build a cheaper (per unit) plane like the f-16. the program is costing 380 billion, but were getting 1700 planes! the f-22 program cost 65 billion 10 years ago for less than 200 planes!

You're trying to tell me that a plane with less range, speed, fighting range, and payload is the better air to ground plane? Pls go.

Cost of F22A? $150 million

Cost of F35A? $130 million

Not a huge difference, especially considering the cost of the program.

IN THIS THREAD

Morons that don't understand how a Marine Expeditionary Unit works.

if you don't have anything useful to say **** off

[fevr]

Please tell me what this aircraft can do that the F22A cannot.

Land on an aircraft carrier or amphibious assault ship.

End of discussion.

[fevr]

? Pls go.

Cost of F22A? $150 million

Cost of F35A? $130 million

Those are fly away costs. As more aircraft are produced that number will go lower.

It is good to know what you are talking about before you talk about it.

Pls go.

[tts0lid]

Please tell me what this aircraft can do that the F22A cannot. It does not matter how you compound it, it's still $380 billion on a less than spectacular aircraft. The F22 was revolutionary for that very same reason. It can carry air to air missiles, or it can carry smart bombs with a payload substantial enough to take out ANY TARGET. Hence no need for another plane.



You're trying to tell me that a plane with less range, speed, fighting range, and payload is the better air to ground plane? Pls go.

Cost of F22A? $150 million

Cost of F35A? $130 million

Not a huge difference, especially considering the cost of the program.



if you don't have anything useful to say **** off

If those numbers are correct they could have scrapped the F35 and produced 2,533 F22s instead.

Instead we're going to get 1,700 F35s?

[DocHol1day]

Please tell me what this aircraft can do that the F22A cannot. It does not matter how you compound it, it's still $380 billion on a less than spectacular aircraft. The F22 was revolutionary for that very same reason. It can carry air to air missiles, or it can carry smart bombs with a payload substantial enough to take out ANY TARGET. Hence no need for another plane.



You're trying to tell me that a plane with less range, speed, fighting range, and payload is the better air to ground plane? Pls go.

Cost of F22A? $150 million

Cost of F35A? $130 million

Not a huge difference, especially considering the cost of the program.



if you don't have anything useful to say **** off

Learn to read. I said the F-35 was a superior DOG FIGHTER that's air to ground CAPABLE, not that its the superior air to ground plane compared to the F-22. As another poster stated, the actual per unit production costs are mucm cheaper than the 20 million you illustrated when you used program numbers vs additional unit numbers. Pls go

[open_society]

Yeah Australia has orders to buy some of these...brb, over budget, over time and still no guarantee of a final price.

This is a pentagon fuk up

[Tomohawk92]

lucky me, freshmen aerospace engineer

[...Rousseau...]

Yeah Australia has orders to buy some of these...brb, over budget, over time and still no guarantee of a final price.

This is a pentagon fuk up

other governments want to order tons of these. Turkey wants squadrons of them too.

[Rockchalk0420]

Please tell me what this aircraft can do that the F22A cannot. It does not matter how you compound it, it's still $380 billion on a less than spectacular aircraft. The F22 was revolutionary for that very same reason. It can carry air to air missiles, or it can carry smart bombs with a payload substantial enough to take out ANY TARGET. Hence no need for another plane.

You didnt listen to anything I said. the F35 is to replace the aging F18s and the aging Harrier jump jets.

And F22 cannot take off from a carrier, it needs a much larger runway. The F35 VSTOL is capable of taking off from a carrier...And its avionics and flight compartments are more advanced then the F22s.

[lsiberian]

News flash those 300 dollar hammers are paying for more than a hammer. Any article on military spending other than the overall budget makes great kindling. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

[Dave22reborn]

Over 15 years, that's not that bad.

[lightningwatche]

It's a lot of money for sure and pretty deplorable and seems like a waste.


Then again from the article its 382 billion over the span of 15 years. It's not 382 billion right now.

That is affordable. It better include a LOT of jets, or else someone is profiting big on our dollar. I wonder how much the government negotiates with these companies. I know it is expense to make the first one, but with mass production, the cost per plane is supposed to come down.

[Captain Harris]

yes keeping up with the jones is how we should think when spending our tax dollars

That's how the Cold War went and that's why much of our current technology exists.

[nutsy54]

ITT republicans would rather the poor spend money on planes that defend the rich.

Damn you are an endless partisan hack

Oh, wait - this is a magic plane, with magic missiles, that magically destroy any threat against "rich" people, but allows threats against "poor" people. Seriously, how the hell does your post make any sense? Especially since nobody here said a damn thing about "rich" or "poor" people. Even more absurd, since the "poor" aren't paying Federal taxes anyway.

[aelephant]

Newsflash: Communism is dead in China.

They are crony-capitalists, just like us.

They own our debt and our economies are so entwined there is no benefit to be had by them "invading" us, which would be an utter catastrophe for them militarily as well as economically.

This is pure paranoia and fear mongering being used to justify a total waste of money.

Yeah, the aerospace industry employs a lot of people, but this is just the broken window fallacy with a new dress. Imagine how much productive work those people could be doing and how much good that money could be doing if it weren't squandered on machines for murdering people.

[RunningStrong]

You're trying to tell me that a plane with less range, speed, fighting range, and payload is the better air to ground plane? Pls go.

Cost of F22A? $150 million

Cost of F35A? $130 million

Not a huge difference, especially considering the cost of the program.

This is part of the political problem. The F35 was originally designed with value for money in mind so that it could compete in the export market. This was in contrast to the F22 which was a halo aircraft, to show the might of American aero-tech.

But prices have risen quickly on the F35, partly due to B variant issues, partly due to rising cost of precious raw materials and economic climate.

So suddenly you've gone from an aircraft that was half the price of the F22 to one that isn't all that less but with limited improvements. That said the F22 isn't designed for ground attack, it doesn't even have an on-board laser designator.

Newsflash: Communism is dead in China.

They are crony-capitalists, just like us.

They own our debt and our economies are so entwined there is no benefit to be had by them "invading" us, which would be an utter catastrophe for them militarily as well as economically.

This is pure paranoia and fear mongering being used to justify a total waste of money.

Yeah, the aerospace industry employs a lot of people, but this is just the broken window fallacy with a new dress. Imagine how much productive work those people could be doing and how much good that money could be doing if it weren't squandered on machines for murdering people.

Why does it matter if they are communists? They are arming, and investing more money than they ever have before. Yes inflation is a big issue for their economy but America should be prepared for a future conflict no matter how unlikely it may seem.

[thorton]

yahoo front page. it's absolutely a fantastic investment. unless you want to be a second class military country.. aka a second class country period.

we're going to turn into fukking england if the military gets hit with budget cuts. NASA already got hit, military is next.

You know how the USSR finally fell? They played keep up with the US when they were broke. It finally destroyed there system and initiated a systemic collapse.

You don't get to play keep up when you have no money. That is how you become a second class country (see USSR).

[bokito1]

Because the Russians and the Europeans are still producing jets to rival what America produces. All the major export contracts right now are between Eurofighter, Rafale, Super Hornet and in many markets F35.

well as you said there is the Super Hornet, which is popular and modern enough everywhere.
Why isnt that sufficient?
If you feel that the Navy needs more air power, just make more Super Hornets...

[RunningStrong]

well as you said there is the Super Hornet, which is popular and modern enough everywhere.
Why isnt that sufficient?
If you feel that the Navy needs more air power, just make more Super Hornets...

Because the F35 and Super Hornets aren't comparable in ability, but are in value for money.

The argument is do many of these countries need to invest in 5th gen aircraft, or will 4.5 gen do? America knows it needs to be at the forefront of technology, but does India/Australia/Canada/Spain/Italy etc etc?

[Spetsnazos]

who are these planes intended to protect? because last I heard the avg American is suffering from lack of jobs, food and shelter...not any foreign invasion.

all this does is make the rich more secure

[Boxman]

You morons.

Do you realize the US spends as much on its military as the entire world combined? Yes you heard that right: one country spends as much as the other 160+ nations put together.

So we account for half the world's military spending, and guess what? Friendly nations account for 80% of the remainder.

This means that the military spending of the United States and our allies accounts for 90% of the entire world's military spending.

The US is so far ahead that we could cancel all our new weapons programs for 20 years and there still wouldn't be any country even remotely close to catching up with us.

This is the main reason why the US is broke right now, by the way.

[Lord_Lemon]

Our military spending needs a 25% cut. It just isn't necessary to be spending so much money that we don't even have. We have to make some hard sacrifices to get our debts in line, and our military budget should definitely be on the table at least for a period of time.