The F35 fighter program is gonna cost $380,000,000,000.00+

[Spetsnazos]

How is this an "investment"?

the only investment I see is if we sell part of the technology over to the highest bidder or if we invade another country and take the8r sh8t.

[AllFapInsurance]

Another over-inflated budget analysis. Nothing new here.

On that note, I'd pay whatever the cost to maintain air superiority. I don't think anyone in here understands the important of air superiority in combat. If not for our airforce, I would literally be dead right now as well as many of the people I served with. Being able to control the air means people can move on the ground. If you want to see a combat situation where we have the sort of death toll that we did in previous wars (many tens of thousands) then you level out the technological playing field. I'd rather keep our military ahead, especially when China is closing the gap at a rate where we aren't going to stay ahead for much longer.

[elephino]

Government spending => Instant bump to GDP => Job Creation => Look! Economic recovery in an election year!!

[Spetsnazos]

Another over-inflated budget analysis. Nothing new here.

On that note, I'd pay whatever the cost to maintain air superiority.

On that note, I'd pay wahtever it costs to maintain an equal society where the gap between the rich and the poor isnt astronomical.

[illriginalized]

It's like the new and improved raptor right? Supposed to fly higher, quieter, faster, and have some insane agility compared to the raptor.

I don't think spending more money on technologies for war is gonna be beneficial for this country. How about spending money on technologies for education and health/science instead.

[Chowboy]

Look no one wants to see budget cuts to their industry because obv they will be out of a job, so I understand where you are coming from.

I much rather the military budget be redirected into space programs that will benefit all of mankind in the future instead of making some super agile stealth fighter with short range >_>

Well, wrong again. I do want to see budget cuts. But they must be smart and with an intelligent strategy for future conflicts.

Autonomous vehicles, UAV, UCAV, robots, etc, need their budgets increased, a lot. China is spending mass sums of money, more than they are revealing. We can't allow the US to become second fiddle to the Reds.

Also, if the military spends money on space programs, it will be for military objectives. They have no reason to go to the moon, Mars, or any other commercial objective.

[Spetsnazos]

It's like the new and improved raptor right? Supposed to fly higher, quieter, faster, and have some insane agility compared to the raptor.

I don't think spending more money on technologies for war is gonna be beneficial for this country. How about spending money on technologies for education and health/science instead.

This. We havent produced a sizable amount of math, science and engineering graduates in DECADES. Everyone would rather be some kind of manager of engineers(rofl) without knowing a damn thing about it.

I was volunteering by tutoring some high school kids from a relatively decent public school in Cali...hot damn the knowledge of these kids was sad at best and we were just pushing them on through to subjects like Trigonometry without allowing them the proper time to learn the material.

[kratosbrah]

and it's worth every penny, unless you want to play second fiddle to china.

That doesn't even matter because once we make it, China will steal it.. Like they do with everything else.

[Attaus]

It's like the new and improved raptor right? Supposed to fly higher, quieter, faster, and have some insane agility compared to the raptor.

I don't think spending more money on technologies for war is gonna be beneficial for this country. How about spending money on technologies for education and health/science instead.

Watch the videos on it..

The main benefit is that its a STOVL.. and you're probably thinking well didn't we already make a hover jet? Yeah, but the F35 is now easier to control and "on par with other jets for agility."

In other words.. not a huge improvement other than some new tech and easier take off/landing (isn't that why air craft carriers have a runway?). I would still rather have an F22 in a dog fight.

[Chowboy]

That doesn't even matter because once we make it, China will steal it.. Like they do with everything else.

Stealing the technology is one thing. Ability to manufacture it is something entirely different.

Look at the J-20 that everybody is all spun about. Estimates are that it will be ready for deployment in about 10 years. The F-22 will be close to the end of its' life cycle at that point.

[AllFapInsurance]

On that note, I'd pay wahtever it costs to maintain an equal society where the gap between the rich and the poor isnt astronomical.

That shouldn't cost any money though, that's just policy making by the government. When they stop bailing out wall-street with tax payer dollars, maybe that will be a start.

[Spetsnazos]

That shouldn't cost any money though, that's just policy making by the government. When they stop bailing out wall-street with tax payer dollars, maybe that will be a start.

agreed 100%.

[bokito1]

I wonder why that is even needed
There are perfectly good older generation fighters, which are probably better than anything China has right now
Its more than enough to maintain air superiority

[tegukeeper]

Im happy to let my tax dollars go to this program. Air superiority must be maintained if we are to stay on top of the food chain. If some of you think we are involved in too much conflict right now...... let our military fall behind and see what happens.

[RunningStrong]

I wonder why that is even needed
There are perfectly good older generation fighters, which are probably better than anything China has right now
Its more than enough to maintain air superiority

Because the Russians and the Europeans are still producing jets to rival what America produces. All the major export contracts right now are between Eurofighter, Rafale, Super Hornet and in many markets F35.

Stealing the technology is one thing. Ability to manufacture it is something entirely different.

Look at the J-20 that everybody is all spun about. Estimates are that it will be ready for deployment in about 10 years. The F-22 will be close to the end of its' life cycle at that point.

LMAO You know nothing.

The F22 has a life span of minimum 30 years, probably more like 50! The J20 at the moment is comparable to the F117. That's 30 year old technology right there. If the J20 flies in 10 years it'll still be 15 years minimum behind American tech unless there is the mother of all intelligence leaks.

Watch the videos on it..

The main benefit is that its a STOVL.. and you're probably thinking well didn't we already make a hover jet? Yeah, but the F35 is now easier to control and "on par with other jets for agility."

In other words.. not a huge improvement other than some new tech and easier take off/landing (isn't that why air craft carriers have a runway?). I would still rather have an F22 in a dog fight.

Britain and Britain alone designed the Harrier And it's a manouverable craft, just not supersonic, which is a biggy these days.

It's like the new and improved raptor right? Supposed to fly higher, quieter, faster, and have some insane agility compared to the raptor.

I don't think spending more money on technologies for war is gonna be beneficial for this country. How about spending money on technologies for education and health/science instead.

It's a different craft to the Raptor almost entirely, they just happen to look alike.

[bmy-]

yeah because they already have F22's amirite?

I wonder why that is even needed
There are perfectly good older generation fighters, which are probably better than anything China has right now
Its more than enough to maintain air superiority

People seem to think that China is some backwards ass country. If anything, they're poised to be the reigning superpower of the next few decades. The contract was probably extended when they saw how far ahead China is in the game.

January 09, 2011
Reporting from a U.S. military aircraft — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates warned Saturday that China's development of advanced missiles and a new stealth fighter could endanger U.S. naval and air forces, and he said the Pentagon would "respond appropriately."

"They clearly have the potential to put some of our capabilities at risk, and we have to pay attention to them. We have to respond appropriately with our own programs," Gates told reporters as he traveled to Beijing for three days of talks with senior Chinese leaders.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan...gates-20110109

[Dr.Z]

Turkey is getting 116+ of these babies...

[RunningStrong]

Turkey is getting 116+ of these babies...

Which you are manufacturing yourselves. That's a pretty sweet deal.

[Dr.Z]

Which you are manufacturing yourselves. That's a pretty sweet deal.

[Chowboy]

LMAO You know nothing.

The F22 has a life span of minimum 30 years, probably more like 50! The J20 at the moment is comparable to the F117. That's 30 year old technology right there. If the J20 flies in 10 years it'll still be 15 years minimum behind American tech unless there is the mother of all intelligence leaks.

Lols, you must be the chief engineer. Actually, you can't be that, because he doesn't even know how the airframe will respond in 20 yrs from now.

On the other point you are correct and that is exactly what I said.

[Attaus]

People seem to think that China is some backwards ass country. If anything, they're poised to be the reigning superpower of the next few decades. The contract was probably extended when they saw how far ahead China is in the game.

So now we have to assume every country with tech is a threat?

Strong paranoia.

Also please show me anyone who says the F35 is a more capable fighter (FIGHTER, not lander) than a F22.

[RunningStrong]

Lols, you must be the chief engineer. Actually, you can't be that, because he doesn't even know how the airframe will respond in 20 yrs from now.

On the other point you are correct and that is exactly what I said.

F14 - 38 year lifespan.
F15 - 1972 Still flying.
F18 - 1983 Still going strong.
F117 - A dog for maintenance had a 25 year lifespan.

And it's scribbled in for a replacement in 2030, but that doesn't mean it'll be retired there and then.

[bmy-]

So now we have to assume every country with tech is a threat?

Strong paranoia.

Also please show me anyone who says the F35 is a more capable fighter (FIGHTER, not lander) than a F22.

Uh, no. Where did I say that? I'm talking about China and their allies (who aren't exactly friendly towards the U.S). China or the U.S will be the reigning superpower for the next 2-3 decades. One of the two. I hope it's us.. but if we start slashing military budgets we'll go the way of Britain. Also, the F35 is not just a STOVL.. there are three variants (sharing 80% of the parts, per wiki) CTOL, STOVL, and CATOBAR.

Is the F35 vs F22 remark one of those 'Navy Seals vs SAS' threads? That's ridiculous.

[Chowboy]

F14 - 38 year lifespan.
F15 - 1972 Still flying.
F18 - 1983 Still going strong.
F117 - A dog for maintenance had a 25 year lifespan.

And it's scribbled in for a replacement in 2030, but that doesn't mean it'll be retired there and then.

Yes, I am aware. You obviously have not read the entire thread.

I have been in aerospace since before you were a glint in your father's eye.

[Attaus]

Uh, no. Where did I say that? I'm talking about China and their allies (who aren't exactly friendly towards the U.S). China or the U.S will be the reigning superpower for the next 2-3 decades. One of the two. I hope it's us.. but if we start slashing military budgets we'll go the way of Britain.

Is the F35 vs F22 remark one of those 'Navy Seals vs SAS' threads? That's ridiculous.

My point was we have more than capable fighters.. we don't need to cut military budget we need to spend it on something useful not another ****ing STOVL which is no more capable than an F22.

[RunningStrong]

Yes, I am aware. You obviously have not read the entire thread.

I have been in aerospace since before you were a glint in your father's eye.

Then you need to keep upto pace gramps, because this Aerospace Engineering undergrad is 100% sure you said

Look at the J-20 that everybody is all spun about. Estimates are that it will be ready for deployment in about 10 years. The F-22 will be close to the end of its' life cycle at that point.

So where did I go wrong in reading that?

[bmy-]

My point was we have more than capable fighters.. we don't need to cut military budget we need to spend it on something useful not another ****ing STOVL which is no more capable than an F22.

I edited into my last post. It's not just STOVL. Three variations, that share 80% of their parts. STOVL, CATOBAR, and CTOL. Next-gen tech in radar jamming, radar evasion..etc.

[Chowboy]

Then you need to keep upto pace gramps, because this Aerospace Engineering undergrad is 100% sure you said

So where did I go wrong in reading that?

Read my post again, youngster.

I said, "on the other point, you are correct."

M'kay. No go back and concentrate on reading comprehension.

[Emmortal]

People seem to think that China is some backwards ass country. If anything, they're poised to be the reigning superpower of the next few decades. The contract was probably extended when they saw how far ahead China is in the game.

People say this without realizing just how ****ed China's economy really is right now. They are in just as fragile of a state as we are, in some cases worse (holding our debt).

[RunningStrong]

Read my post again, youngster.

I said, "on the other point, you are correct."

M'kay. No go back and concentrate on reading comprehension.

No... You said I must be the chief engineer to know how the airframe was going to respond. A direct comment to my statements about lifespan.

My "other point" that you referred to was about the tech comparison.

Keep on digging gramps.