The biomechanics behind putting a plate under heels for a squat

[markyyyyyy]

Hi all,

can someone please explain the biomechanics behind putting some plates under your heels when doing a squat?

My take on it is that it forces your centre of gravity in a more anterior direction, placing less strain on the posterior muscles (hamstrings, glutes, etc).

Does having tight hamstrings force the pelvis in a more anterior direction, which caused greater lumbar lordosis?

So in theory, should stretching and strengthening the hammys/Glutes resurrect the problem, along with stretchnig your calves for greater dorsi flexion at the ankle?

I am intrigued.

Thanks guys

Mark

[askthetrainer]

Hi all,

can someone please explain the biomechanics behind putting some plates under your heels when doing a squat?

My take on it is that it forces your centre of gravity in a more anterior direction, placing less strain on the posterior muscles (hamstrings, glutes, etc).

Does having tight hamstrings force the pelvis in a more anterior direction, which caused greater lumbar lordosis?

So in theory, should stretching and strengthening the hammys/Glutes resurrect the problem, along with stretchnig your calves for greater dorsi flexion at the ankle?

I am intrigued.

Thanks guys

Mark

I think you mean "bro Science"

[bmontgomery87]

I think you mean "bro Science"

hahah well played

[markyyyyyy]

I think you mean "bro Science"

So are you saying that there is no benefit? / difference of doing it?

Surely we as personal trainers should be able to explain this to clients if they ask what putting plates under your heels does for you?

I don't do it myself .. i was just wondering what it does.

[regl8r]

It really doesn't make any sense at all to me. While squatting I want weight driven through heels and damn near rolling out of my shoes from inside-out.

I suppose it could isolate quads somewhat, but there are better ways to go about doing that.

[jcameron28]

So are you saying that there is no benefit? / difference of doing it?

Surely we as personal trainers should be able to explain this to clients if they ask what putting plates under your heels does for you?

I don't do it myself .. i was just wondering what it does.

pretty much the same idea for wearing oly shoes for squats but a poor substitute, it allows you to keep a more upright body position and hit greater depth while avoiding any lumbar flexion. youre right that the problems could be solved by greater hamstring and ankle flexibility however having extremely loose hamstrings is usually not optimal for athletes

I would suggest getting weightlifting shoes or just using a squat with less range of motion for your clients instead of using plates

[ob205]

I would say it is the easiest (not best) way to overcome a ankle mobility/flexibility issue to get into a deep squat.

As for the greater quad recruitment, yes I think there is some, but feel it would be much better to perform front squats for that.

[Morrison]

I've always shown this to clients who have trouble keeping their balance while squatting to the proper depth, and raising the heels a couple inches helps them keep from feeling like they're about to fall forward when they squat, and it also does target more quads, I do this from time to time myself when I switch from a wide stance to a more narrow stance and it hits my quads at a different angle and really gives them a different burn.

[KyleAaron]

can someone please explain the biomechanics behind putting some plates under your heels when doing a squat?

It's to make up for poor ankle mobility, usually caused by poor achilles flexibility. That way people can go deeper earlier on.

A better solution is to be patient, range of motion will increase with practice. I have one client who could not go deeper than 20-30 degrees above parallel without raising her heels, three months later she goes so deep we have to rock her to get her off the floor, and her heels stay down.

[PerFit]

It's to make up for poor ankle mobility, usually caused by poor achilles flexibility. That way people can go deeper earlier on.

A better solution is to be patient, range of motion will increase with practice. I have one client who could not go deeper than 20-30 degrees above parallel without raising her heels, three months later she goes so deep we have to rock her to get her off the floor, and her heels stay down.

this.

Although im not against using it as long as the is an active progression to improves the clients calf flexibility etc.

I'm not going to sacrifice overload on the muscles purely because there is a flexibility issue that can temporarily be address.

[KyleAaron]

Well, way I see it, this is progressive resistance training, and just as increasing weight or reps is a progression, so too is increasing the range of motion.

Why do idiots in gyms do half-benches and quarter squats? Because it lets them handle more weight than a greater range of motion would. They could deep squat 40kg, or quarter squat 100kg; if they tried deep squatting 100kg, they'd do an accordion squat - fold up quickly with a scream.

Same weight with more reps is a progression. More weight with same reps is a progression. Same weight and same reps but with a greater range of motion is a progression too.

No need for plates under the heels, certainly not for beginner lifters. Just let them progress, that's what beginners are supposed to do. Don't cheat them of their progress.

[Jigsaws]

I know this is an old (ish) thread, but thought I'd add something.

I broke my right ankle badly about 10 years ago (multiple breaks, including the Talus) and ended up having pins inserted to keep it altogether. Thankfully it healed, however my right ankle has limited movement due to the pins remaining inside. Anyway, I started going to the gym last year, wanted to do squats & deadlifts, but I couldn't get into the required position due to the lack of flexibility in my right ankle. As such my leg sessions have been hampered (quarter / half squats on the smith) then everything else has been isolation based, leg extensions etc - not ideal!

Then about a month ago, I saw someone in the gym with plates under their heels. I wondered why? So I tried it out to see what it might do and it was a revelation. It allowed me to get full range of motion, good form and more importantly, it means I can push through my heels - whereas before, I'd get to a certain degree and my right heel would pop up.

It's been a revelation - legs is now my favourite session!

[BC02]

imo, it would be better to put a plate under ones toes then under the heel. This would get the same response as under the heels, but the trainee could much more easily progress to raising his/her toes to make sure the weighted is distributed correctly compared to under the heels after they get the feel of "sitting back". Putting a plate under the heels works as a crutch, not a solution.

[SFT]

imo, it would be better to put a plate under ones toes then under the heel. This would get the same response as under the heels, but the trainee could much more easily progress to raising his/her toes to make sure the weighted is distributed correctly compared to under the heels after they get the feel of "sitting back". Putting a plate under the heels works as a crutch, not a solution.

What type of squat are you trying to teach them? If it is a "powerlifting" type squat, with relatively low dorsiflexion, with the tibia near vertical, I'm not sure you would even need to do this. I don't necessarily want 100% of the weight solely on the person's heels.

If you are perform a type of squat where the knees tend to go over the toes more, then a certain level of dorsiflexion is required, or the heels will come off the ground. Examples where more dorsiflexion is needed might include a front squat, or an "Olympic" squat. In these examples, the torso is more upright. If you try to teach people to stay perfectly upright with a vertical tibia, they will likely end up falling backwards. This is just a matter of where the center of mass is.

All the plates under the heels does is start you off in plantar flexion. This will likely allow you to achieve greater levels of knee flexion (squat depth) before you hit the point where your ROM at the ankle ends.

I don't even want to start the discussion of proper squat form, but more dorsiflexion (knees over toes) doesn't always have to be a bad thing. You have to condition your body for it just like anything else. Everyone cites that one study showing that it increased torque at the knee. Apparently they didn't read that a "powerlifting" type squat increased torque at the hip. Furthermore, they didn't stop to think whether torque is a good or bad thing...

There are too many people out there that give bogus advice regarding biomechanics. I'm no expert, but I don't try to pass myself off to be. However, I do think anyone who says that the knees can't go over the toes is crazy. There are certain clients that I avoid this with, but to avoid it with all of them is crazy.

I think the biggest take home as far as squat form is that dorsiflexion/knee flexion has to be accompanied by proper hip flexion. Obviously if you let the knees shoot forward and don't sit back (to create hip flexion), then you aren't going to be getting the most out of the exercise.

[tjwessksu]

yes, knees going over your toes is not a bad thing. oly weightlifters have the least incidence of serious injuries (mainly overuse which goes away quickly) because they are performing squats throughout a full range of motion! plates under the heels is not broscience, and don't use a lesser range of motion either as it will breed muscle imbalances. simply stretching the calves can allow someone to achieve greater dorsiflexion, start with plate loaded standing calf stretches, 5 reps of 10-15 seconds in the bottom position, then move over to seated calf raises and do the same thing.

[BC02]

What type of squat are you trying to teach them? If it is a "powerlifting" type squat, with relatively low dorsiflexion, with the tibia near vertical, I'm not sure you would even need to do this. I don't necessarily want 100% of the weight solely on the person's heels.

If you are perform a type of squat where the knees tend to go over the toes more, then a certain level of dorsiflexion is required, or the heels will come off the ground. Examples where more dorsiflexion is needed might include a front squat, or an "Olympic" squat. In these examples, the torso is more upright. If you try to teach people to stay perfectly upright with a vertical tibia, they will likely end up falling backwards. This is just a matter of where the center of mass is.

All the plates under the heels does is start you off in plantar flexion. This will likely allow you to achieve greater levels of knee flexion (squat depth) before you hit the point where your ROM at the ankle ends.

I don't even want to start the discussion of proper squat form, but more dorsiflexion (knees over toes) doesn't always have to be a bad thing. You have to condition your body for it just like anything else. Everyone cites that one study showing that it increased torque at the knee. Apparently they didn't read that a "powerlifting" type squat increased torque at the hip. Furthermore, they didn't stop to think whether torque is a good or bad thing...

There are too many people out there that give bogus advice regarding biomechanics. I'm no expert, but I don't try to pass myself off to be. However, I do think anyone who says that the knees can't go over the toes is crazy. There are certain clients that I avoid this with, but to avoid it with all of them is crazy.

I think the biggest take home as far as squat form is that dorsiflexion/knee flexion has to be accompanied by proper hip flexion. Obviously if you let the knees shoot forward and don't sit back (to create hip flexion), then you aren't going to be getting the most out of the exercise.

one could also just have the client raise their toes while squatting. Either way, both just having one raise their toes, or putting a plate under ones toes are better options then putting a weight under the heels imo.

[KyleAaron]

Then about a month ago, I saw someone in the gym with plates under their heels. I wondered why? So I tried it out to see what it might do and it was a revelation. It allowed me to get full range of motion, good form and more importantly, it means I can push through my heels - whereas before, I'd get to a certain degree and my right heel would pop up.

A better solution would be to get weightlifting shoes. They have an elevated heel, and solid base to move from. Much safer than a plate under the heels. You'll find that the strongest powerlifters and weightlifters don't use a plate under their heels, they just wear the right shoes.

[FueledByYelyah]

Would anyone consider putting a plate under the heels as not safe?

[SFT]

one could also just have the client raise their toes while squatting. Either way, both just having one raise their toes, or putting a plate under ones toes are better options then putting a weight under the heels imo.

Are we talking about entirely different things here? Putting the plate under your heels starts you off in plantar flexion. So, you would have more potential ROM for dorsiflexion. By putting the plate under the toes, you are starting off with the ankle in dorsiflexion. In this case, you would have not have as much potential for further dorsiflexion. If you had any hopes of doing a squat style that requires some dorsiflexion ROM (Front squat or "Olympic" style squat), then you will likely be worse off.

I don't know too many people who would be limited by dorsiflexion in a "powerlifting" style squat. If they are coming off the heels in this type of a squat, it is more of a matter of learning the movement, not a matter of ROM.

[rdferguson]

I know this is an old (ish) thread, but thought I'd add something.

I broke my right ankle badly about 10 years ago (multiple breaks, including the Talus) and ended up having pins inserted to keep it altogether. Thankfully it healed, however my right ankle has limited movement due to the pins remaining inside. Anyway, I started going to the gym last year, wanted to do squats & deadlifts, but I couldn't get into the required position due to the lack of flexibility in my right ankle. As such my leg sessions have been hampered (quarter / half squats on the smith) then everything else has been isolation based, leg extensions etc - not ideal!

Then about a month ago, I saw someone in the gym with plates under their heels. I wondered why? So I tried it out to see what it might do and it was a revelation. It allowed me to get full range of motion, good form and more importantly, it means I can push through my heels - whereas before, I'd get to a certain degree and my right heel would pop up.

It's been a revelation - legs is now my favourite session!

This was a worthwhile bump. I agree with Kyle saying that wearing weightlifting shoes would be a better option than putting a plate under your heels, but you've identified the value of having an elevated heel while squatting, which is worth acknowledging and understanding.

[rdferguson]

Would anyone consider putting a plate under the heels as not safe?

For bodyweight squats and light warm up sets it's probably fine, but I wouldn't be keen on it once you've got some weight on the bar, because they aren't a very stable surface.

[tovlakas]

It's to make up for poor ankle mobility, usually caused by poor achilles flexibility. That way people can go deeper earlier on.

A better solution is to be patient, range of motion will increase with practice. I have one client who could not go deeper than 20-30 degrees above parallel without raising her heels, three months later she goes so deep we have to rock her to get her off the floor, and her heels stay down.

Nearly correct, except that the Achilles is a tendon and isn't meant to be flexible; it's actually a lack of flexibility of the calf muscles themselves, as well as typically a lack of strength in the anterior muscles responsible for dorsiflexion.

I think that whether it's a better solution or not is an individual thing, because some trainers prefer to get folks into the correct depth and let them develop the mobility along the way, rather than dealing with issues that arise from shallower squatting. There's definitely pros and cons to both.

[tovlakas]

one could also just have the client raise their toes while squatting. Either way, both just having one raise their toes, or putting a plate under ones toes are better options then putting a weight under the heels imo.

Might want to brush up on biomechanics there pal. Putting a plate under the toes will simply assist the trainee in performing a sort of squat-to-bent-leg-calf-raise movement. The issue is that they don't have the strength nor mobility to keep their ankle at such an acute angle that allows them to squat below parallel (or sometimes, even more shallow) without their heel coming up. Placing a platform under the heel reduces the angle at which the ankle must be at the bottom of the squat, thereby avoiding the sticking point. Putting something under the toes would do the exact opposite.

[EdgarAllanPoe]

decreases the stretch of the calf area during squats....i only do it if someones heels are raising or if their feet are turning out a little bit.

then i try to workout the tightness with foam rolling (begininng/end of workouts), stretching at the end...single leg balance work

Usually after a few weeks of that and practice my clients will get it. I also think its good that they feel their heel against something and try to drive it into that surface. So if they go back and their heels are still raising they can feel that difference.

It's basically a bandaid for poor ankle mobility

[BC02]

might want to brush up on biomechanics there pal. Putting a plate under the toes will simply assist the trainee in performing a sort of squat-to-bent-leg-calf-raise movement. The issue is that they don't have the strength nor mobility to keep their ankle at such an acute angle that allows them to squat below parallel (or sometimes, even more shallow) without their heel coming up. Placing a platform under the heel reduces the angle at which the ankle must be at the bottom of the squat, thereby avoiding the sticking point. Putting something under the toes would do the exact opposite.

i disagree

[cloudstrife1218]

there is no benefit to doing that. It does nothing for the client. It may make them feel better because they can go "lower" in the movement. But in reality they are doing nothing more than cheating. Have them do the movement the correct way.

[EdgarAllanPoe]

I've also noticed....a few of my clients I think are scared to sit back and thats what causes there heels to raise....I let them squat down and tap a plyo box or bench and the heel issue is gone...thats another suggestion that may work early on.

[BC02]

there is no benefit to doing that. It does nothing for the client. It may make them feel better because they can go "lower" in the movement. But in reality they are doing nothing more than cheating. Have them do the movement the correct way.

agreed

[popupwindow]

I think it's very rare to have someone who can't get into a decent squat position, unless they're extremely immobile or with past injuries (although that describes a lot of PT clients, it's easy to assume a lack of motor control, strength or stability is a flexibility limitation when it isn't).

Heels coming up often seems to be a lack of awareness which can be cued easily, or fixed with some pole squats, as most people are used to being on their toes in sport, as they're always being told 'don't be flat footed', so you have to emphasise that in sports you want to be on your toes, in the gym you want to be on your heels. It's like how females often struggle to shove their knees out properly on a squat, not because of any inherent muscle weakness or tightness, but simply because they're not used to shoving their knees out as it's not 'ladylike' to have your knees wide open.

If someone is super tight in their lower bodies you can do some stretching, or just more squatting over time with opens them up, but elevating the heels should not be the default option.

[Godzgurl15]

I have the same issue because I too broke my ankle about 10 years ago and have pins holding it together