Nutrition for high-metabolism guys like me

[Mark Rejhon]

Hi,

Body: 29 years old, 5'9", 150lbs, pretty much beginner.
Goal: Bulk up. At least a little. It's not easy with my metabolism.

I'm starting weight training and I am learning fast. I just got my first books about it (Body Building 101 by Robert Wolff and Getting Stronger by Bill Pearl. I am going through about 20-30 min researching a day for the near term to get me started.). They may not be perfect books but they seemed to be the type of books I am able to follow, and most obviously better than trying to figure out on my own. This is something I have been doing for the last 3-4 months, but I am now starting again with better advice. There is also the fact that I am deaf so I usually like to learn on my own rather than get a trainer, but I am going to try to find someone who can accomodates my needs. That's why I tend to like to learn from online and from books. I am a newbie in this world - one of the few things I am newbie at because I'm an Internet veteran for the last 10 years.

Now.... One of the problems I have is that I have an extremely high metabolism. I am also naturally hyper. (I am of mostly ectomorph body type) To make matters worse, I have an pretty small stomach that sometimes fill up even on just one chicken breast. When I am starving, I can fit only something like: 4 non-large egg (omlette or scrambled) and half a chicken breast plus barely have one slice cantaloupe and half a bran muffin. That all made me stuffed. Not good. (Note: This was my breakfast today). In the past, sometimes I've eaten very fattening food all day all week and never gained a pound of weight, which says a lot to my metabolism. At worst, I gain about 3-4 pounds but I frequently quickly revert to approximately 150lbs. Of course, I can feel that I don't have much energy. My metabolism is so high that I naturally have a sixpack ab even if I do not work out, although naturally fairly flat chested if I do not work out (sometimes even ribs faintly show through chest if I am really slacked off). Ectomorph body type. Flip side, it's hard for me to bulk up! I can bulk up enough in about a month or two to just about barely get compliment that I look better built than average, but I partly blame that on my natural sixpack and high metabolism. I only started working out recently, and now am starting over again this time with more proper technique and finally started proper nutrition.

I have started eating 7 or 8 small meals per day (some as small as a cup of yoghurt or glass of milk, some as large as the breakfast I illustrated above). I made the nutrition change just a few days ago, after I recently decided to spread my nutrition throughout the day in more smaller meals. Also to compensate for my small stomach size. I just started my first self-imposed diet just this week as an experiment, in order to balance out the carb-protien-fat percentages better than I used to.

I am looking into nutrition advice for really high metabolism guys like me.

(1) Because of my metabolism, is it true that I need to use a slightly different balance that increase protien and fat at expense of carb, by 5% points. Like instead of 50-35-15, I should do something like 45%-35%-20% or 40%-40%-20%?

(2) Is it true that I need to have as much as 1.5 grams of protien per pound of body weight? (Advice for really high metabolism people like me) Rather than the usual 1.0 gram or less.

(3) If true, then that means 225g of protien per day for me. How do I fit all that stuff in a small stomach without hurting carb/fat intake and without stuffing me up and feeling sleepy? Concentrate higher percentage of milk/egg/tuna/chicken/whey and have 7 or 8 small meals a day? (I just started doing this 2 days ago after I learned of my need to increase protien)

(4) Is it true that people of extremely high metabolism need protien supplements more badly than other people? (Whey supplementing even to a good diet) That I need all the help I can get? I just got a whey supplement for the first time two days ago. (Champion Nutrition Pure Whey Protien Stack, Vanilla. By accident, it seems like I sure got a yummy tasting brand. I hope I didn't choose a junk brand but it doesn't seem like it).

(5) Given my metabolism, is it true that I benefit more from a Mon-Wed-Fri workout regimen (work out only 3 days a week rather than 4 or 5). And that I should not do too much activity outside of workouts, if I want to bulk up, because my metabolism demands longer recovery for building muscle mass? Save all my energy towards workouts?

Incidentally I think the last 2 days was very productive based on what I've learned so far and the change in nutrition. Nutrition is much better now, I would think. I know I'm still a long way from my goals... And even my goals are simply modest. I want to be sure I am on the right track to do the goal as efficiently as I can in the time I have. Any "dangerously important" things I should know?

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
http://www.marky.com

[Dave2003]

hi Mark

this is dave600 from AVSforum

in your case, given your age (guys grow up till 25, I mean up to 25, your organs, bones etc grow and reach their final genetic sizes. it does not mean you can 't add muscle after that, or to be more correct, to enlarge your muscle cells or add fat but it does mean that if your stomach is mall and you quickly feel full, there's not much to change that imho. or drink beer ? ).

now, in your case, you should eat lots of small meals per day, have digestive enzyme to help absorb food and make digestion easier, do not overtrain (one the biggest common mistakes beginners do ). train each bodypart once a week, alternate low reps and high reps to fool the body, havea protein shake upon waking up, another one at bedtime, others spread along the day and 3-4 meals. FOOD is crucial for growth, better OVERFEED than OVERTRAIN.
take vitamins to also help in assimilation.
drink a lot of water.

all this nutrition part is the most demanding part imho, many quit because of that. too many beginners overtrain and undereat and underest.
once you have reached your weight and size, it's much easier to maintain this status.

[Mark Rejhon]

Funny, I can't hide from you forum guys.

I learned the important fact about not overtraining, that was something I did a few months ago when I first started going to the gym, and before I read books and asked for advice.

I'm forcing myself to eat foods I normally don't eat - I don't normally liek the taste of milk but the vanilla flavour of the whey I got, makes it palatable. So when I drink milk from now, I use the whey as yummy flavouring/sweetener. (Championship Nutrition Pure Whey Protien Stack. Almost randomly chosen at the store since this is my first-ever whey supplement. But I think I hit the jackpot when it came to tastebuds.)

I've started having the protien supplement around the workout time, usually afterwards. One time, I had a cup of yoghurt mixed with a scoop of whey. Another time, I mixed the whey with oatmeal, another time I mixed it in a glass of milk. I just had my first whey only 2-3 days ago, I'm still the newbie stage here, where the big containers are mind-boggling. Funny how roles are reversed in this forum compared to AVSForum. I still don't have a blender yet but I am going to the store to get one. You are saying I should have the protien boost in the morning and before bedtime too?

I'm trying to figure out how much I should supplement healthy nutrition. Currently, I am erring on the side of caution and taking one half cup, mixed in with existing food or drink, for one of my seven or eight small meals a day. (I count snacks as meals too)

Seeing your signature, you went from 110lbs to 230lbs? Wow. My goals are far more modest than that.

For now I'm trying to just have measurable growth. I think I already do now, I still have to buy that flexible measuring tape. My build isn't bad by default - I have natural 6 pack abs when I don't work out (Fat doesn't seem to like me) - but I feel I'm way too flat chested. Maybe, then going from my current 150lbs to 160lbs would be a breakthrough for me over the next 1-2 years. 175lbs would be a miracle for me, so I never expect that. You never know. I just want a bit more bulky look, slightly more sculpted, but have no plans to make it a competitive thing. My goals are pretty modest.

Really, I've just started this nutrition experiment for the first time - I never really watched my own diet myself before. That could have big results.... Weeks and months will see.

[Mark Rejhon]

One last thing. Digestive enzymes? Do you think a beginner like me should start taking those, or I should wait a bit.

I've only recently changed my diet to this 7-8 small meals a day, with probably double/triple the protien I usually get in one day. (I learned I was eating too little protien). My body might need to get used to that first? Or do I need the enzymes more badly now as a beginner?

Well, I'd appreciate any advice from any of you pros. (You sound like one of them!).

[Dave2003]

hi Mark
since you left the growth time for men (25years is the max for deep structural body changes, like organs, skeletton, ribcage), don't expect to enlarge you ribcage. sure, you will develop pectoral muscles but you won't grow ribcage volume nor the width of your frame.

as for enzymes, once massive amount of food are ingested, the body often needs some assistance in digesting it. it does not matter if you begin or not but just depends on the quantities ingested.

as for protein shakes, drinks of 20grs are enough, don't waste your money on 40grs per shake. the body can't absorb in a single take more than 20-30grs anyway, the rest will be excreted and wasted. as for protein intake in a meal, it's a bit different since cooking kills lots protein and amino acids that make up protein so, 200gr of fish or chicken will more surely give you 20-25gr of protein than 100gr of fish or chicken.

protein shake upon awakening and at bedtime helps keep your body being in positive nitrogen balance and helps the muscle cells growing. sleeping being 8hours in general (have a nap during the day sometimes too), that's 8hours without protein... so one at bedtime and one in the morning help compensate for that.

thanks for the pro compliment but I'm definitely not. I learned a lot, I managed to change my ectomorph frame when I was much younger (from 17 till 20), that's all. 230lbs is not just pure muscle at all either and I could be much bigger for this weight too.
I'm trying to catch up ,after many many years of no training.
Some perhaps will say that skeleton cells can still grow too after the usual men's genetic growth has stopped but I'm no expert.

one advice: train at home if you can and if you are discplined enough to do it. my best gains were made at home, in my home gym, which consisted of the basic raw elements: bench press, pulley, lots of dumbells, scott bench, barbells. workouts take lots less time, you're more focus, you can play your own music etc.
and it's very convenient for short growth workouts.

Again, EAT EAT EAT, TRAIN 3-8 SETS per bodypart once a week, various reps range (6-20), fool your body (change program every week (can be order of exercices, types of exercises etc), REST !
DRINK WATER, plenty of it.
You might want to take glucosamine supplements which, and it really works, help heal and strengthen joints, cartilages, ligaments etc. I even cured myself a severe high biceps-elbow joint inflammation with this product. natural and efficient. You're never sure you won't get hurt training so better be prepared, warm up enough also.

milk: well, as aging goes, milk tolerance diminishes most of the time. and it has a tendency to make your skin thick too.
milk is essential during childhood and as long as you genetically grow.

hope this helps

[7000rpmisheaven]

It not as complicated as you think. I like to keep it simple and take one thing at a time. Since you are a hard gainer you need to learn to gain wieght. Your body needs to have a surplus of nutrients to properly fuel muscle building.

The key is the surplus. If you have a surplus your are either going to build muscle or get fat. Your training right or wrong has little to do with gaining weight. Your training just instructs your body what to do with it.

All training aside, if the number on the scale is not getting bigger you are not eating enough. If you are eating 4000cal a day and still not gaining than you need to eat even more.

[Dave2003]

you can not grow or you can lose muscle (I didn't say fat) at 4000 if you overtrain and/or if the 4000kcal don't include enough protein: protein is the single most importat nutriment when building muscle is concerned. carbs second them to provide energy (even the brain needs glucose), but carbs don't build anything by themselves (they help saving protein for muscle building and not energy supply, as protein can also be used to supply energy but it's far less efficient and very destructive)

someone will likely grow faster (muscle grow) on a 2500diet made of 250gr protein than another one on 4000 made of 100gr of protein. also, ability to assimilate well or not as well protein maters too.

now, the one with 300gr protein and 5000kcal diet will grow faster

there is a balance to find between diet-protein and training program.

[gsubodybuilder]

Dont bitch about having a high metabolism, that udderly sickens me.

[Mark Rejhon]

Hey gsubodybuilder,

Oh, I'm not bitching.... I'm just trying to figure out what's best for me. That's why we all visit here - to find out what is best for ourselves. Cheers.

[gsubodybuilder]

I wasnt necessarily referring to you, youre going about things the right way. I just hate hearing people like my roomate bitch about how they cant gain muscle when their diet consists of PopTarts and Bud Light. Just keep trying, the mass will come. (BTW do you smoke? I know a lot of bros that quit smoking and put on some quality muscle)

[skinnyassmofo]

You sound like me. I'm 6'4" and 166ish(up from 163ish about a week ago).

I have a 6 pac without working out, but I think I'm better off than you, I can eat and eat and eat. I do get full, but I eat a bit more when I am full then call it quits, then I eat again 15min later. I think I really got the luck of the genetic draw, got my moms metabolism, and my dads ability to gain muscle.

I'm gonna sign up to a gym June 1st, and I've been working on getting my diet sorted out for a few weeks now. I've been trying to train myself to eat all day long, so I can take in the insane amount of calories I need. I've been doing push ups with my feet up on a bed and some weight on my back, and pull ups, and to my surprise I've seen results from that, and I've only been doing it for like 2 weeks. I really can't wait to get to a gym, then I will really pour on the protien and I should see decent gains with some time. Good luck man.

[Mark Rejhon]

Nope - don't smoke here. Never have!

I tend to peck at my food (in the past - sometimes just two meals a day), but I am now trying to have the right foods around me so I'm managing to get 7-8 meals in a day and I think it's having an effect. No conclusive weight gain yet but some increased energy and I just added 5 pounds to some of my reps, something that hasn't happened till now. I'm eating double what I used to eat.

Although it may be a possible waste of surplus whey, but based on some advice I have also decided to try the protien-milk shake immediately upon wakeup and right before bedtime, not just right after workout (or yoghurt / cottage-cheese whey mix, if out of milk for the shake - that is gonna happen more often than I thought!) and make it a strong goal to eat a real meal within an hour or so after the morning protien shake and after the post-workout shake. My body will use it well or will not use it well. We'll see.

Despite increased energy at times, I am, however, a bit more foggy headed when I am at work here (I work at home as a consultant). I wonder if it's just natural sleepiness associated with a more constantly partially filled stomach. I guess I'll get used to that after a bit. Just got some gingiko to see if that compensates. Does this normally happen to beginners, considering the doubling in food consumption upon starting a nutrition program?