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  1. #91
    PhD in Broscience crackyflipside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by batmannu View Post
    i dont think he's really after a help.. he's more here to find excuses not to squat faster..
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  2. #92
    Flustered Fluster's Avatar
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    She's going to be popular.
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  3. #93
    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    I don't know much about o-lifting but I am pretty familiar with squatting and I have to agree with Fluster on this one. Stop trying to squat in a certain way that you think will be beneficial for your o-lifts, squat to get stronger and do your o-lifts to improve your o-lifts.

    My $0.02
    I squatted 5x3@300 with a low bar squat and my olympic lifts stayed the same, I'm only interested in the high bar squat and making that go up.
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  4. #94
    Flustered Fluster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    I squatted 5x3@300 with a low bar squat and my olympic lifts stayed the same, I'm only interested in the high bar squat and making that go up.
    The same as what? Your logic is all over the show mate. If you get that 300 to 400, your clean/snatch will go up along with it regardless of bar position, assuming of course that it's strength currently holding your oly lifts back.
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  5. #95
    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fluster View Post
    The same as what? Your logic is all over the show mate. If you get that 300 to 400, your clean/snatch will go up along with it regardless of bar position, assuming of course that it's strength currently holding your oly lifts back.
    The same as the maxes I lifted before, the only reason I tried the low bar was because I read Rippetoes arguments for it which is what you're repeating now and I felt like it made sense at the time. However, based on my results I'm convinced Rippetoe's methodology is incorrect at least for an olympic lifter. It might work for the odd guy with weird body positions like Zymon Kolecki but it didn't work for me.
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  6. #96
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    Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post
    ouch.. i can do about only 23 with 70-75kg in 1 minute!
    also my legs were so tossed after this..
    and also did deep squat not half (parallel) nor sumo.

    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    The same as the maxes I lifted before, the only reason I tried the low bar was because I read Rippetoes arguments for it which is what you're repeating now and I felt like it made sense at the time. However, based on my results I'm convinced Rippetoe's methodology is incorrect at least for an olympic lifter. It might work for the odd guy with weird body positions like Zymon Kolecki but it didn't work for me.
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  7. #97
    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by batmannu View Post

    I can play too



    I explained to you several times that I'm doing an olympic HIGH BAR squat NOT a low bar squat, apparently you're the one who can't ****ing read.
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  8. #98
    champion w8lifter in prog boykid28's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    I explained to you several times that I'm doing an olympic HIGH BAR squat NOT a low bar squat, apparently you're the one who can't ****ing read.
    just post a video of u squating fast with high bar already.
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  9. #99
    Banned DanielBeauchamp's Avatar
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    OP, how often do you max/squat with heavy weights (90%+)? Also, how is your back strength relative to your legs?

    Focusing on Front Squats for a while helped me get past my sticking point at the bottom position.
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  10. #100
    Flustered Fluster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    The same as the maxes I lifted before, the only reason I tried the low bar was because I read Rippetoes arguments for it which is what you're repeating now and I felt like it made sense at the time. However, based on my results I'm convinced Rippetoe's methodology is incorrect at least for an olympic lifter. It might work for the odd guy with weird body positions like Zymon Kolecki but it didn't work for me.
    I don't give a crap about Rip or low bar or anything else - You're trying to force yourself in to this ridiculous mimicry of a squat you're not able to perform with nay sort of proficiency.

    If you're able to squat 5x3x300 one way and struggle with doubles at 225 another, which do you think is going to make you stronger?

    You keep citing your flexibility or muscle issues for not descending quicker, yet fail to appreciate it's likely entirely mental since you obviously don't descend like a snail on methadone when you clean.

    Jesus you're frustrating.
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  11. #101
    PhD in Broscience crackyflipside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fluster View Post
    I don't give a crap about Rip or low bar or anything else - You're trying to force yourself in to this ridiculous mimicry of a squat you're not able to perform with nay sort of proficiency.
    It's with oly lifts too... He should just worry about squatting like himself and adjust little things until he finds something that let's him squat normally and not super awkward. GoJu, you got weird body proportions so mimic is not a good idea, especially chinese lifters with super long torsos. Your legs are long so you are going to need to lean forward more at the bottom. Then you gotta figure out how to squat faster with weights. I don't know how to do it. Load up the bar with 800 lbs and see how fast it lowers you. Try everything.

    Go to the OTC for a week and see if grand master Zygmunt Smalcers can fix it.
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  12. #102
    Flustered Fluster's Avatar
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    Really? How the hell do you drop slowly on a clean?!
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  13. #103
    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    The OTC? It's that easy to just go there and say hey train me for a week?

    There is forward lean on my squats, you can see it as I ascend out of the hole. I still don't see anything wrong with having my torso as upright as I can in the bottom though.

    I really think the speed will come when my leg finally loosens up, someone gave me a link to a really good set of mobility drills so I'll see how that goes.

    Negatives sound like an interesting idea.

    Originally Posted by Fluster View Post
    Really? How the hell do you drop slowly on a clean?!
    The flexibility issue is NOT mental, I'll get a vid of cleans if you want to show you, the descent on my clean is very similar to my current high bar squat. Most of the time I'll catch it high and ride it down because my right leg stops my descent. I'd know if it was in my head.

    The low bar squat didn't bother me as much as the high bar but that's mostly because it's kind of impossible to go down as low with the low bar and the low back is also taken out of the equation compared to the high bar so that explains the higher poundages.

    I think how you squat is just as important as how much you squat in olympic lifting
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  14. #104
    Flustered Fluster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    I think how you squat is just as important as how much you squat in olympic lifting
    That's crap if your squat weights are as diverse as yours. Mechanical carryover is all well and good, but strength is strength, stop looking for excuses and justification.

    If you clean at the same speed you squat/ride down then *obviously* it's not squatting strength bottlenecking your cleans, now is it?

    edit - nevermind, I'm done in this silly thread, good luck with your lifts
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  15. #105
    Registered User breathinglife's Avatar
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    I think Fluster raises some good points.

    I've never seen a squat where you look like you are struggling at all. You look like you're working with 50% of your max most of the time, squatting in slo-mo.

    Do you have any videos of what it looks like when you fail? I'm guessing such a video would look like you popping out of the hole and then just kind of dropping down. I'd love to see a video of you pushing yourself to musculature failure. I know you blokes are always wanting to maintain good form, but I've never gained any strength on squat without doing some crazy volume and grinding out some heinously ugly reps, and occasionally getting CRUSHED by the weight. I don't mean failing by losing my balance, or falling forward or whatever--I mean squatting until I was crushed down by the weight.


    I have a friend who squats like you, and I'm 99% sure I could get in his body and squat ~450, but he can't squat an ounce over 405. It's like every time he tries to push himself he just gets weirded out and drops the bar onto the supports.

    I hope this makes sense.
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  16. #106
    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by breathinglife View Post
    I think Fluster raises some good points.

    I've never seen a squat where you look like you are struggling at all. You look like you're working with 50% of your max most of the time, squatting in slo-mo.

    Do you have any videos of what it looks like when you fail? I'm guessing such a video would look like you popping out of the hole and then just kind of dropping down. I'd love to see a video of you pushing yourself to musculature failure. I know you blokes are always wanting to maintain good form, but I've never gained any strength on squat without doing some crazy volume and grinding out some heinously ugly reps, and occasionally getting CRUSHED by the weight. I don't mean failing by losing my balance, or falling forward or whatever--I mean squatting until I was crushed down by the weight.


    I have a friend who squats like you, and I'm 99% sure I could get in his body and squat ~450, but he can't squat an ounce over 405. It's like every time he tries to push himself he just gets weirded out and drops the bar onto the supports.

    I hope this makes sense.
    Well I could go up more in weight than I do but I'm concerned about my leg and the fact that the weights I'm doing never seem to be feeling easier than last time so I didn't think it prudent to up the weight until the previous weights that I was lifting felt easy. I always figured if the weights I was lifting now felt hard than there was no sense adding more lbs was going to go, maybe I'm wrong? I could get a vid of me maxing if that would help.
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  17. #107
    PhD in Broscience crackyflipside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    Well I could go up more in weight than I do but I'm concerned about my leg and the fact that the weights I'm doing never seem to be feeling easier than last time so I didn't think it prudent to up the weight until the previous weights that I was lifting felt easy. I always figured if the weights I was lifting now felt hard than there was no sense adding more lbs was going to go, maybe I'm wrong? I could get a vid of me maxing if that would help.
    Wait... you didn't go heavier because it would feel harder than lighter weights?

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  18. #108
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    Well I could go up more in weight than I do but I'm concerned about my leg and the fact that the weights I'm doing never seem to be feeling easier than last time so I didn't think it prudent to up the weight until the previous weights that I was lifting felt easy. I always figured if the weights I was lifting now felt hard than there was no sense adding more lbs was going to go, maybe I'm wrong? I could get a vid of me maxing if that would help.
    Until you go up in weight and give your body a new stimulus to adapt to, the weights you are doing now will never feel easier, most likely. Nobody gets stronger by lifting the same weight over and over.
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    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post
    Wait... you didn't go heavier because it would feel harder than lighter weights?

    No, I meant the weight I was lifting now felt really really heavy and they never felt lighter and I didn't feel confident increasing it cause I thought I would fail and be a waste of a workout.
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    KNEES GO PAST TOES GoJu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Until you go up in weight and give your body a new stimulus to adapt to, the weights you are doing now will never feel easier, most likely. Nobody gets stronger by lifting the same weight over and over.
    Well I'm restting Rippetoes right now but when I stalled at 240 3x3 in over 6 workouts it didn't feel like increasing it to even 245 would be a good idea, you saying I should just increase it anyway and grind up the weights?
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    Well I'm restting Rippetoes right now but when I stalled at 240 3x3 in over 6 workouts it didn't feel like increasing it to even 245 would be a good idea, you saying I should just increase it anyway and grind up the weights?
    Yes, lol. Don't be afraid of going to failure! I certainly think it's a dumb idea to purposely train to failure, but if you fail on a rep every now and then it's not going to hurt you in any way. You absolutely must give your body a new stimulus to adapt to. I try not to get into scientific explanations too much, but basically you have done the same form for so long/consistently now (and by "long" I mean at similar weights for lots of rep, not necessarily long periods of time) that you have already formed the neural/motor/muscle patterns to optimize that form. I've read papers where neural patterns were demonstrated to be developed within 2 months of a new stimulus (not lifting papers but similar idea). Now you need to increase the weight and provide a new stimulus for your body.

    I haven't been able to squat for 3 years since tearing my meniscus in my right knee, but back when I was able to squat a max of 385, there were times when 315 would feel heavy on me (not frequently but every now and then). But I knew I had the strength to get that up for reps so that wouldn't stop me at all. I still deadlift now and there are times when 275 feels goes up very fast and times when it feels heavier to me (and I maxed a few weeks back at 505). I'm sure tons of others here have similar experiences.
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    bisniss batmannu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post
    Wait... you didn't go heavier because it would feel harder than lighter weights?

    lmao.. lold.. was very funny.

    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    No, I meant the weight I was lifting now felt really really heavy and they never felt lighter and I didn't feel confident increasing it cause I thought I would fail and be a waste of a workout.
    also, how come high bar squat feels SO HEAVY yet low bar squat DIDNT FEEL THAT HEAVY AT ALL at the same weight??

    u just make me literally
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  23. #113
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    Originally Posted by batmannu View Post


    also, how come high bar squat feels SO HEAVY yet low bar squat DIDNT FEEL THAT HEAVY AT ALL at the same weight??

    Because low bar is a mechanically advantageous position compared to high bar, takes the low back out of the equation, this isn't hard sht to figure out. EVERYONE should be able to squat more low bar than they do high bar....

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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    Because low bar is a mechanically advantageous position compared to high bar, takes the low back out of the equation, this isn't hard sht to figure out. EVERYONE should be able to squat more low bar than they do high bar....
    sadly u r mistaken. i can actually front squat more than i low bar squat.but i dont care how much i low squat, high squat, overhead squat, front squat, $h!t squat, or any other type of squat. i only care about how much i squat with a full range of motion, not what type of squat, or techinque used to squat, thats it. anyhow i want to see some max efforts with ur squat man. less b!tch!ng and more lifting. post a vid already of some max squats.
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    Originally Posted by GoJu View Post
    Because low bar is a mechanically advantageous position compared to high bar, takes the low back out of the equation, this isn't hard sht to figure out. EVERYONE should be able to squat more low bar than they do high bar....

    depending on how big the back is low bar and high bar squat can have only few cm of difference..
    i dont think i low bar squat much more compared to high bar squat.. but i do know that i front squat less than back squat..

    all you do is COMPLAIN.. im tired of your whining..
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    Originally Posted by batmannu View Post
    depending on how big the back is low bar and high bar squat can have only few cm of difference..
    i dont think i low bar squat much more compared to high bar squat.. but i do know that i front squat less than back squat..

    all you do is COMPLAIN.. im tired of your whining..
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  27. #117
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    A while back I stalled out on squat for a few years, and it was only by doing a linear progression and grinding through weights I thought were impossible that I was able to make a break through.

    Squats always feel SO heavy to me. I've tripled 495, but when I triple 405 it still feels like it is going to crush me. Every time I unrack something above 4 plates I feel like the weight is going to destroy me. I'm pretty sure this is the reason why so many people have trouble with squats--they are so intimidating. When I see you descend SO slowly on squat, I can feel the caution there.

    I think the reason overreaching programs tend to work so well on squat is that people don't know what they are capable of lifting because they are afraid of going to true failure on squats.

    So yes, I think you should start approaching squats with the attitude of do or die. Start trying 5 or 3 rep PRs that seem impossible, and only give yourself the option of total muscular failure, or completion of the set. Don't re-rack the weight and don't just give up. I took a look at some of your failed squat attempts and they don't look like you failed at all--it just looks like you gave up.

    For an example of what it looks like to truly fail a squat, I humbly offer myself getting crushed:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csVkTxCEj6Y

    You can see that I almost was crushed on the second rep, but I still gave the 3rd rep a go. I don't do this every workout, but I have completed some reps you wouldn't believe possible--just because I was willing to risk getting crushed by the weight.
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  28. #118
    Registered User ulfhednar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by breathinglife View Post
    A while back I stalled out on squat for a few years, and it was only by doing a linear progression and grinding through weights I thought were impossible that I was able to make a break through.

    Squats always feel SO heavy to me. I've tripled 495, but when I triple 405 it still feels like it is going to crush me. Every time I unrack something above 4 plates I feel like the weight is going to destroy me. I'm pretty sure this is the reason why so many people have trouble with squats--they are so intimidating. When I see you descend SO slowly on squat, I can feel the caution there.

    I think the reason overreaching programs tend to work so well on squat is that people don't know what they are capable of lifting because they are afraid of going to true failure on squats.

    So yes, I think you should start approaching squats with the attitude of do or die. Start trying 5 or 3 rep PRs that seem impossible, and only give yourself the option of total muscular failure, or completion of the set. Don't re-rack the weight and don't just give up. I took a look at some of your failed squat attempts and they don't look like you failed at all--it just looks like you gave up.

    For an example of what it looks like to truly fail a squat, I humbly offer myself getting crushed:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csVkTxCEj6Y

    You can see that I almost was crushed on the second rep, but I still gave the 3rd rep a go. I don't do this every workout, but I have completed some reps you wouldn't believe possible--just because I was willing to risk getting crushed by the weight.
    thats exactly my problem at the moment, just main a thread about this in the powerlifting section today, been stuck on my squats since like last march. Ive done 405 x 6 atg, but after that I started 531, and actualy lost strength, tried to regain it by doing madcows, still nothing, I dont even know wtf Im doing wrong, I guess i probably combine it with my wrestling practises the wrong way. Gona try doing squats on separate days from now on, I noticed high volume works for me, so I will try like 10 sets of 5 - 8 reps. Squats are my weak point at the moment, its getting rediculose that my bench press is almost 400 and I can barely squat atg over 400 :/

    What sort of % did you use for your linear progression? Im gona squat twice a week on separate days as I said, what % would you advise?

    Thanx.
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  29. #119
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    Originally Posted by ulfhednar View Post
    thats exactly my problem at the moment, just main a thread about this in the powerlifting section today, been stuck on my squats since like last march. Ive done 405 x 6 atg, but after that I started 531, and actualy lost strength, tried to regain it by doing madcows, still nothing, I dont even know wtf Im doing wrong, I guess i probably combine it with my wrestling practises the wrong way. Gona try doing squats on separate days from now on, I noticed high volume works for me, so I will try like 10 sets of 5 - 8 reps. Squats are my weak point at the moment, its getting rediculose that my bench press is almost 400 and I can barely squat atg over 400 :/

    What sort of % did you use for your linear progression? Im gona squat twice a week on separate days as I said, what % would you advise?

    Thanx.
    It was nothing fancy. I just started doing 5x5, starting at about 70-75% and working my way up @ 5-10 lbs a week until I stalled. Then I'd do a week of triples, then the next week work to a max single. It seems pretty simple, but I went from 435 squat to 515 squat in about 9-10 months. I also quit deadlifting during this period, focusing exclusively on squats, although I only did them 1x per week. The cool thing was I gained 20 lbs on my deadlift as well.
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  30. #120
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    Originally Posted by breathinglife View Post
    It was nothing fancy. I just started doing 5x5, starting at about 70-75% and working my way up @ 5-10 lbs a week until I stalled. Then I'd do a week of triples, then the next week work to a max single. It seems pretty simple, but I went from 435 squat to 515 squat in about 9-10 months. I also quit deadlifting during this period, focusing exclusively on squats, although I only did them 1x per week. The cool thing was I gained 20 lbs on my deadlift as well.
    Yeah I quit deadlift in order to improve on my squat aswel, but I still do hang cleans. When you say a week of triples, you mean how many times per week? I think ill start with 75% of my max also, so I can do at least 8 sets of 5 comfortably, not sure if after that id be able to recover to squat again the same week, **** knows, might end up doing 5x5 like you said. I think also my mistake was that I was doing squats at the end of the workout, after bench and hang clean, and I usualy do bench till failure so that could defenetly have a bad effect on squat in the end. If ill be able to go from 430 to over 500 in the 9-10 months ill be extremely ****ing happy heh, my squat max for my weight is weak as ****.
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