5/3/1, bill star and Ripptoes

[Chuck2600]

Are these programs the best possible programs for gaining mass? I already have some decent size and would like to realistically gain only another 10lbs but every time I look at one of these programs they come off as to simple and nowhere near enough volume. Are these only good for making optimal gains for beginners?

[justroberson]

These are primarily strength programs, any mass you gain on them is really going to be a function of your diet. You can gain mass on them, but if you're interested in only mass and not so much strength, you might be better off with a more bodybuilder style program.

[Chuck2600]

These are primarily strength programs, any mass you gain on them is really going to be a function of your diet. You can gain mass on them, but if you're interested in only mass and not so much strength, you might be better off with a more bodybuilder style program.

Ty, measly reps

[Farley1324]

Are these programs the best possible programs for gaining mass?

No.

They are oriented towards strength.

[Chuck2600]

No.

They are oriented towards strength.

So what kind of program should I look into for optimal mass gaining results, right now I follow chest/shoulders/tris, Legs, Rest, Back/Bi's, Rest, Repeat. Mainly compund exercises with a few isolation thown in 6-8 rep rage 4-5 days per week.

[Farley1324]

So what kind of program should I look into for mass gaining, right now I follow chest/shoulders/tris, Legs, Rest, Back/Bi's, Rest, Repeat. Mainly compund exercises with a few isolation thown in 6-8 rep rage 4-5 days per week.

I'm not the one to ask.

There also don't seem to be as many established 'cookie cutter' routines for size/mass as there are for strength.

[grumble1]

Well, not to say that you won't gain a ton of muscle on these programs, but they are not intended to be pure muscle gain programs.

[Ron91]

These are primarily strength programs, any mass you gain on them is really going to be a function of your diet. You can gain mass on them, but if you're interested in only mass and not so much strength, you might be better off with a more bodybuilder style program.

Don't you need to gain strength to gain size? I thought the whole reason people did Rippetoe's program was for size and strength? Just trying to clarify.

[justroberson]

Don't you need to gain strength to gain size? I thought the whole reason people did Rippetoe's program was for size and strength? Just trying to clarify.

In general, i don't think the two are always related, especially when considering bodybuilder type size gains, which may or may not come with increased strength. In terms of SS though, like I said before, its all about strength, and size is just a function of diet. You can get stronger but not bigger, through CNS and muscle memory improvement. I do think at a certain point though, if you don't start getting bigger strength gains will dry up.

[pumplikecuming]

5/3/1 can be tailored for mass. Bill Starr 5x5 is mainly strength and mass as a side effect. Rippetoes is primarily strength.

All programs can ellicit mass, but some are less likely to work for most people than others. Going from nothing to something always adds mass, but should not be called optimal for mass.

[Farley1324]

Don't you need to gain strength to gain size? I thought the whole reason people did Rippetoe's program was for size and strength? Just trying to clarify.

The short answer is yes, you need to get stronger to get bigger.

But if you want to optimize one of those two you need to train with it in mind. There are some differnces.

[Twstd]

Don't you need to gain strength to gain size? I thought the whole reason people did Rippetoe's program was for size and strength? Just trying to clarify.

People make progress following 5 day BB splits aswell as SS. It's really up to you personally. I've done 4-5 day splits before but the strength gain was slow. I'd much rather do something like SS to really hammer those compounds and get that strength up. Then once you are happy with your lifts move onto a body part split using that strength youve gained. This is just my plan/theory. Going to the gym 5 days a week is all good but having ****ty lifts 5 days a week sucks. I also agree with strength comes size. I have yet to see a person who lifts heavy but does not look like they visit the gym.

[pumplikecuming]

Don't you need to gain strength to gain size? I thought the whole reason people did Rippetoe's program was for size and strength? Just trying to clarify.

Mass training leads to strength gains.

Strength training does not always lead to mass gains.

Its a double standard.

[Chuck2600]

Thanks everyone, from all the talk of these programs on this site I've gotten this warped idea that in order to build mass the only way to go is one of these programs. Dispite getting to a decent size without them I always question weather or not I would benifit more if I was to do one.