Reply
Page 4 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 863
  1. #91
    Registered User co1e_train's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: Stephens City, Virginia, United States
    Age: 29
    Posts: 3,866
    Rep Power: 11512
    co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) co1e_train is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    co1e_train is offline
    Originally Posted by DanTheManB View Post
    I It infuriates me that all the 150lbers etc on this site reFUSE to accept real world experiences as truth. If it isn't done in a lab coat as an experience then it isn't true. Ridiculous. Emulate what you aspire to be.
    Couldn't agree more!
    Six Star Pro Nutrition Lead Rep

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/six-star-pro/six-star-pro.htm

    B.S Exercise Science
    ACSM Health Fitness Specialist Certified
    www.trainwithcole.com -> Physique Transformation Coaching
    YouTube: trainwithcole
    IG: @coledreyer
    Twitter: @ColeD117
    Snap Chat: coledreyer117


    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
    Reply With Quote

  2. #92
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder AustrianOakJr's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 41
    Posts: 7,629
    Rep Power: 8988
    AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000)
    AustrianOakJr is offline
    Originally Posted by Sporto1633 View Post
    No you are not type I diabetic LOL
    What? Type 1 diabetics dont load on 1700g of carbohydrates prior to a show?


    Originally Posted by Sporto1633 View Post
    Lucky...mine went even lower lol


    Well, you got a LITTLE bit leaner than I did. A "LITTLE".
    "Who the Son sets free is free indeed....."

    WNBF Pro Natural Bodybuilder

    Check out my CELLUCOR Supplement log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148746693&pagenumber=

    3DMJ Athlete
    Reply With Quote

  3. #93
    Registered User FrmrHoss's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2005
    Location: Charlotte, North Carolina, United States
    Age: 36
    Posts: 8,793
    Rep Power: 4850
    FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) FrmrHoss is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    FrmrHoss is offline
    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    I'm wondering if there is any logic behind it other than "I ate like X and then like Y and I looked better when I ate Y" - which is no doubt reasonable in a singular case but I'm looking at this empirically.

    I find it unfortunate that so many people take what pros say without expecting some rationale behind it.

    I asked Tommy because he used to be a huge advocate of eating "within macros" and similarly he used to be against flat bench pressing as a chest exercise and he's changed his mind on both. It's worth the line of questioning.

    Sorry that so many of you are so upset by something on the internet. Christ.

    I don't think you're grasping it entirely. I was actually enjoying the discussion, and I feel there is a lot to learn (and a lot to be learned) by forcing someone to explain the rationales behind their reasoning. Most people are pissed off because of the condescending tone to your posts and how quickly you are to get hostile, whereas Tommy has pretty civil and has at least engaged you and tried to defend his perspective.

    I actually tend to side with you on the GI debate based on the studies that I've read. But, at the same time, I'm not trying to get to stage-ready levels of leanness. I just want to look good naked. To get to 10% body fat, I'm sure I can just make sure I hit my macros/calories with pretty much whatever foods I please.

    But, to my knowledge, there are NO studies out there about these sorts of issues (GI, insulin sensitivity and its role in calorie/nutrient partioning) that are done in exclusively a population of VERY LEAN individuals. If I'm wrong, please post the studies because I genuinely would like to read them. Absent that, all we have is anecotal evidence and at least I'm getting anecdotal evidence from Tommy's perspetive; from your end, I just get an assumption that the body processes things the same way at extreme levels of leanness. I don't know which one is accurate, but I do know that Tommy looked hella shredded this past season, so I appreciate the perspective.
    New log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=144101461
    Best meet lifts: 424/303/551 (93kg)
    Best gym lifts: 420/290/565
    Reply With Quote

  4. #94
    You want it go get it anti-steroids's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2007
    Location: United States
    Age: 36
    Posts: 2,863
    Rep Power: 1012
    anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500) anti-steroids is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    anti-steroids is offline
    Originally Posted by co1e_train View Post
    Couldn't agree more!
    Yeah I agee too!but where most[not all] run into problems is when they go to far to the left or right when the answer is more often than not somewhere in the middle IMO..of course exceptions always exist
    "you can always think of many reasons not to do anything. But how many people are willing to search for a reason [a good one] to do something" " in life there are good choices and bad choices and in between there are doors"

    youtube channel: www.youtube.com/user/ANTISTEROIDSX2
    exist to inspire!
    greatness is upon you ACT LIKE IT!
    Reply With Quote

  5. #95
    Registered User SHARK13's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Age: 42
    Posts: 33
    Rep Power: 0
    SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    SHARK13 is offline
    Originally Posted by FrmrHoss View Post
    I don't think you're grasping it entirely. I was actually enjoying the discussion, and I feel there is a lot to learn (and a lot to be learned) by forcing someone to explain the rationales behind their reasoning. Most people are pissed off because of the condescending tone to your posts and how quickly you are to get hostile, whereas Tommy has pretty civil and has at least engaged you and tried to defend his perspective.

    I actually tend to side with you on the GI debate based on the studies that I've read. But, at the same time, I'm not trying to get to stage-ready levels of leanness. I just want to look good naked. To get to 10% body fat, I'm sure I can just make sure I hit my macros/calories with pretty much whatever foods I please.

    But, to my knowledge, there are NO studies out there about these sorts of issues (GI, insulin sensitivity and its role in calorie/nutrient partioning) that are done in exclusively a population of VERY LEAN individuals. If I'm wrong, please post the studies because I genuinely would like to read them. Absent that, all we have is anecotal evidence and at least I'm getting anecdotal evidence from Tommy's perspetive; from your end, I just get an assumption that the body processes things the same way at extreme levels of leanness. I don't know which one is accurate, but I do know that Tommy looked hella shredded this past season, so I appreciate the perspective.
    On the contrary there are studies that examine this subject. I agree with the majority of Tommy's philsophy's. It would be inappropriate to think that carbohydrate selection has little bearing on ones physique, especially in our sport. I reference a study published in the American Journal Of Clinical Nutrtion A novel interaction between dietary composition and insulin
    secretion: effects on weight gain in the Quebec Family Study1–3
    Jean-Philippe Chaput, Angelo Tremblay, Eric B Rimm, Claude Bouchard, and David S Ludwig
    This study concluded several interesting facts which I interpret to support Tommy's viewpoint. A few notable points in the study:
    1. insulin-30 (measurement taken after 30 minutes) at baseline strongly predicted changes in bodyweight and waist circumference...
    2. The primary findings of this study are that a proxy measure of insulin secretion strongly predicted weight gain and change in waist circumference over 6 y in adult whites...

    Another study brushes on some of the debated topics and explores several other variables.
    Potentiation of the thermic effect of insulin by
    exercise: differences between lean, obese,
    and noninsulin-dependent diabetic men13

    I'm surprised that anyone challeged Tommy's perspective as the belief that keeping insulin and bay or as low as possible is pretty fundamental with the exception of post workout and perhaps the first meal of the day.

    Sorry to add my perspective to YOUR thread, Tommy. I normally don't get too involved. congratulations on an excellent season, your physique was truly remarkable.
    "The Shark"
    Reply With Quote

  6. #96
    Banned JohnBrowne's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Posts: 3,515
    Rep Power: 0
    JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000)
    JohnBrowne is offline
    Can you post link to those studies please?

    Lyle McDonald actually presented me with the idea that one should keep insulin as elevated as possible while dieting as its anticatabolic effects on muscle tissue tend to be greater than its antilipolytic effects especially in leaner individuals.

    At the end of the day though it's extraordinarily difficult to manipulate blood insulin endogenously. I think some of the concepts that have been presented here are valid but only when dealing with exogenous humulin supplementation.

    In simplified terms I think many of these concepts have become commonplace in the natty bodybuilding scene but really have no relevance to athletes that aren't manipulating insulin through injections.

    I think that carb selection can have a huge effect on body water balance but it's not insulin dependent by any means.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #97
    Registered User SHARK13's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Age: 42
    Posts: 33
    Rep Power: 0
    SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    SHARK13 is offline
    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    Can you post link to those studies please?

    Lyle McDonald actually presented me with the idea that one should keep insulin as elevated as possible while dieting as its anticatabolic effects on muscle tissue tend to be greater than its antilipolytic effects especially in leaner individuals.

    At the end of the day though it's extraordinarily difficult to manipulate blood insulin endogenously. I think some of the concepts that have been presented here are valid but only when dealing with exogenous humulin supplementation.

    In simplified terms I think many of these concepts have become commonplace in the natty bodybuilding scene but really have no relevance to athletes that aren't manipulating insulin through injections.

    I think that carb selection can have a huge effect on body water balance but it's not insulin dependent by any means.
    You will not be able to access them without being a member of the AJCN email me and i will send both as PDF's jesse@sett2win.com One will never be able to eradicate insulin nor would they want to as it is very anabolic as you cite however i disagree that GI/GL has no relavence on fat loss especially when subjects are attempting to get as lean as we do as competitors.
    "The Shark"
    Reply With Quote

  8. #98
    Team Boss Barbell Club Rsardinia's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Location: United States
    Posts: 7,613
    Rep Power: 14362
    Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Rsardinia is offline
    Great season this year Tommy!! Maybe one day I'll share the stage with you. Best of luck in your next season whenever that ends up being. I won't be on stage til 2012.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #99
    Registered User zmcdole's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Location: United States
    Age: 36
    Posts: 10,702
    Rep Power: 42406
    zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) zmcdole has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    zmcdole is offline
    Originally Posted by Rsardinia View Post
    Great season this year Tommy!! Maybe one day I'll share the stage with you. Best of luck in your next season whenever that ends up being. I won't be on stage til 2012.
    I can't wait to see what natural bodybuilding has to offer in 2-4 years. It really seems like it's growing in all phases.
    1708 total @220 Raw
    Improve my total every time I step on the platform.

    Being a male is a matter of birth. However, being a "man" is a matter of choice.

    Photo in Avi is not current, I'm way fatter now.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #100
    Team Boss Barbell Club Rsardinia's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Location: United States
    Posts: 7,613
    Rep Power: 14362
    Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Rsardinia is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Rsardinia is offline
    Originally Posted by zmcdole View Post
    I can't wait to see what natural bodybuilding has to offer in 2-4 years. It really seems like it's growing in all phases.
    Think so. A lot of guys are getting really into taking their body as far as they can go on their own. Its really fun and I think more guys are catching on to that. There's a lot of young pros too that with a few years off will come back looking awesome.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #101
    Banned JohnBrowne's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Posts: 3,515
    Rep Power: 0
    JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000)
    JohnBrowne is offline
    Originally Posted by SHARK13 View Post
    You will not be able to access them without being a member of the AJCN email me and i will send both as PDF's jesse@sett2win.com One will never be able to eradicate insulin nor would they want to as it is very anabolic as you cite however i disagree that GI/GL has no relavence on fat loss especially when subjects are attempting to get as lean as we do as competitors.
    I'm not aware of any competitors that eat carb sources in insolation in a fasted state.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #102
    Registered User SHARK13's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Age: 42
    Posts: 33
    Rep Power: 0
    SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    SHARK13 is offline
    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    I'm not aware of any competitors that eat carb sources in insolation in a fasted state.
    This study referenced in the NSCA Journal has good relavence to the topic at hand:

    Infl uence
    of high-carbohydrate mixed meals with
    diff erent glycemic indexes on substrate
    utilization during subsequent exercise
    in women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

    CONCLUSION
    the total
    amount of fat oxidized after the low
    glycemic meal was signifi cantly greater
    than the amount of fat utilized after the
    high glycemic index diet. Based upon
    this research it might be concluded that
    a low glycemic diet will facilitate the
    oxidation of fats during exercise, thus
    potentially having a greater impact on
    body fat loss.
    "The Shark"
    Reply With Quote

  13. #103
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder AustrianOakJr's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 41
    Posts: 7,629
    Rep Power: 8988
    AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000)
    AustrianOakJr is offline
    Originally Posted by SHARK13 View Post
    This study referenced in the NSCA Journal has good relavence to the topic at hand:

    Infl uence
    of high-carbohydrate mixed meals with
    diff erent glycemic indexes on substrate
    utilization during subsequent exercise
    in women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

    CONCLUSION
    the total
    amount of fat oxidized after the low
    glycemic meal was signifi cantly greater
    than the amount of fat utilized after the
    high glycemic index diet. Based upon
    this research it might be concluded that
    a low glycemic diet will facilitate the
    oxidation of fats during exercise, thus
    potentially having a greater impact on
    body fat loss.
    What was the time frame "after the meal"? Sure, an insulin spike is going to blunt fat burning.....thats not exactly a news flash.....I dont understand how that lends any support to the argument. This is the problem with the whole low glycemic index argument and most of the studies and rationale that surround its support. People fail to view fat loss in the big picture. If my net loss is greater than my net storage, then I am moving in the right direction. Just because carbs are stored now, doesnt mean that they cant be used later on when blood sugar is low......and they will if you are in caloric deficit. If I am in a 500 calorie deficit, I am going to lose my pound per week.......it doesnt matter how many insulin spikes I have in that week......its still a 500 cal deficit. Might I FEEL more hungy on a high GI diet? Probably, but thats a different discussion.
    "Who the Son sets free is free indeed....."

    WNBF Pro Natural Bodybuilder

    Check out my CELLUCOR Supplement log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148746693&pagenumber=

    3DMJ Athlete
    Reply With Quote

  14. #104
    Registered User SHARK13's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Age: 42
    Posts: 33
    Rep Power: 0
    SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    SHARK13 is offline
    Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    What was the time frame "after the meal"? Sure, an insulin spike is going to blunt fat burning.....thats not exactly a news flash.....I dont understand how that lends any support to the argument. This is the problem with the whole low glycemic index argument and most of the studies and rationale that surround its support. People fail to view fat loss in the big picture. If my net loss is greater than my net storage, then I am moving in the right direction. Just because carbs are stored now, doesnt mean that they cant be used later on when blood sugar is low......and they will if you are in caloric deficit. If I am in a 500 calorie deficit, I am going to lose my pound per week.......it doesnt matter how many insulin spikes I have in that week......its still a 500 cal deficit. Might I FEEL more hungy on a high GI diet? Probably, but thats a different discussion.
    Read the study for the particulars. Your calories in calories out explanation is very valid and will get you pretty lean however when you are looking to get as lean as Tommy and some of these other pros get EVERY apect counts. Keep in mind that the majority of low glycemic carbohydrates are more nutritious that high glycemic choices (this is a general statement)
    "The Shark"
    Reply With Quote

  15. #105
    Banned JohnBrowne's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Posts: 3,515
    Rep Power: 0
    JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000)
    JohnBrowne is offline
    Originally Posted by SHARK13 View Post
    Read the study for the particulars. Your calories in calories out explanation is very valid and will get you pretty lean however when you are looking to get as lean as Tommy and some of these other pros get EVERY apect counts. Keep in mind that the majority of low glycemic carbohydrates are more nutritious that high glycemic choices (this is a general statement)
    Are we talking about glycemic index or insulin?
    Reply With Quote

  16. #106
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder AustrianOakJr's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 41
    Posts: 7,629
    Rep Power: 8988
    AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000)
    AustrianOakJr is offline
    Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    What? Type 1 diabetics dont load on 1700g of carbohydrates prior to a show?




    Well, you got a LITTLE bit leaner than I did. A "LITTLE".
    John Browne......just wondering why you negged me for this post. I have never had a negative reputation point until now. Congrats.
    "Who the Son sets free is free indeed....."

    WNBF Pro Natural Bodybuilder

    Check out my CELLUCOR Supplement log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148746693&pagenumber=

    3DMJ Athlete
    Reply With Quote

  17. #107
    Bring it surfergirl36's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    Age: 48
    Posts: 1,316
    Rep Power: 314
    surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50) surfergirl36 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    surfergirl36 is offline
    Great log Tommy! Congrats on a great season and a beautiful baby.

    I'm in and following along. I appreciate all your insights and knowledge.
    Reply With Quote

  18. #108
    PNBA Pro Bodybuilder Quelly's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: North Shore City, Auckland, New Zealand
    Age: 37
    Posts: 17,255
    Rep Power: 15318
    Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Quelly is offline

    carbs, insulin, nutrient partioning OH MY

    There is some really good discussion in here, and I think if everyone can keep their egos out of it, and just look to learn instead of make points (I'm not referring to anyone specifically) this could become very informative.

    I will say right off the bat, that being in a deprived state, and being very lean does some wacky stuff to the body, especially if you had to go low carbs or keto for any significant time frame. When I got to very lean levels, almost every meal I ate gave me ankle edema regardless of food source, I also had a very long road to getting regular stable energy levels back and at a certain point I would get very lethargic after each meal.

    I am no where near diabetic, and my experience is obviously not unusual, as Tommy, Sean, many of my clients and many of Tommy's clients have had the same experience.

    I also have to say, that if your opinion DOES NOT change over time, you probably aren't learning anymore. And you are being guided by your ego and looking to protect your image and opinion instead of looking to learn. I applaud Tommy for continuing to learn even at the higher levels of competition. Being able to change your mind is a sign of someone not hindered by their own ego and an attribute of successful people in all walks of life. I go into debates and discussions to learn not to win, and I am better for it.

    I will say though, that I have had different experiences, I had the hardest graniest look ever, after eating a ton of crap following my last show, where my peak went pretty well, and it was a back load with entirely "clean food" consisting of nut butter, rice cakes, chicken breast and organic jelly. But after pizza, sushi, mac and cheese, there was a point where I looked the graniest and hardest I'd ever had. I saw this again during my reverse diet, during which I maintained contest condition (fully striated glutes) for about 3 weeks while upping food, I had big cheats one day a week, and without fail, after these cheats I looked crazy.

    Also, from what I have seen, hard and grainy tends to go hand in hand with being full vs flat.

    For example, Layne put up pics from your show Tommy, and at the morning show he looked soft and flat, but his night show pictures he appeared to have a very similar look to yours, hard and grainy.

    I wasn't there, and pictures don't tell all, and it's just my opinion based on photos, but I'm not sure if I'm convinced that insulin response and food source dictate the hard and grainy look. And if it does, it may have more to do with glycogen production and food allergies.

    Just my thoughts, looking to stimulate some good discussion.

    Also...John Browne mentioned that Lyle is of the opinion that keeping insulin as elevated as often as possible during a diet while still losing bodyfat should be the goal, because its anti catabolic effects are superior to its negative effects on fat burning....not surprisingly, Dr Joe is of the exact same opinion and I got to talk to him about this at a seminar. It makes sense, as fat loss is dictated in the end by calorie balance, not the isolated time frames around meals.
    Like Sean said, you can store fat at one point of the day, but what really matters is net fat loss.

    EDIT
    BTW tommy if you feel like this is a hijack, just say so, I'll edit/delete my post and start a thread in the contest prep section
    Last edited by Quelly; 12-15-2010 at 04:46 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  19. #109
    Glutes... they are back Cumulonimbus's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2010
    Location: Ontario, Canada
    Age: 27
    Posts: 10,006
    Rep Power: 20299
    Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Cumulonimbus has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Cumulonimbus is offline
    Informative, repped on recharge Quelly!
    Just a weight lifter
    Reply With Quote

  20. #110
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder FATHER FLEX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2002
    Location: Hayward, California, United States
    Age: 37
    Posts: 15,933
    Rep Power: 15021
    FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) FATHER FLEX is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    FATHER FLEX is offline
    Originally Posted by Quelly View Post

    Also...John Browne mentioned that Lyle is of the opinion that keeping insulin as elevated as often as possible during a diet while still losing bodyfat should be the goal, because its anti catabolic effects are superior to its negative effects on fat burning....not surprisingly, Dr Joe is of the exact same opinion and I got to talk to him about this at a seminar. It makes sense, as fat loss is dictated in the end by calorie balance, not the isolated time frames around meals.
    Like Sean said, you can store fat at one point of the day, but what really matters is net fat loss.
    Of all the things you said this one is the biggest one. How elevated? Well that is going to differ greatly, from one individual to the next.

    And yeah that chart Joe had was pure brilliance!
    100% Natural Bodybuilding!
    http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/

    Where there are no men be a man.

    Even a genius asks questions.

    Knowledge is the child of confusion.
    Reply With Quote

  21. #111
    Registered User Super Numb's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2007
    Location: Irving, Texas, United States
    Age: 46
    Posts: 88
    Rep Power: 163
    Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) Super Numb has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    Super Numb is offline

    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by Quelly View Post
    There is some really good discussion in here, and I think if everyone can keep their egos out of it, and just look to learn instead of make points (I'm not referring to anyone specifically) this could become very informative.

    Like Sean said, you can store fat at one point of the day, but what really matters is net fat loss.
    Yes, this is an awesome thread to begin with, but now it's even awesome-er.

    Ok, your second sentence is interesting. In fact, that one sentence may be the "come full circle" statement!

    So with that, in terms of showtime, aren't we all trying to peak at a specific point in time (i.e. at prejudging, etc.)? If so, then the first part of that sentence DOES become the more important matter, which I think Tommy is essentially talking about, right? If so, then I think breaking this stuff down to such isolated issues as specific food sources, and exact (or as exact as possible) timing of food intake, etc. really WOULD matter, and make a difference in truly "peaking".

    Isn't it crazy how specific this stuff can get?!?
    Reply With Quote

  22. #112
    PNBA Pro Bodybuilder Quelly's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: North Shore City, Auckland, New Zealand
    Age: 37
    Posts: 17,255
    Rep Power: 15318
    Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Quelly is offline
    Originally Posted by Super Numb View Post
    Yes, this is an awesome thread to begin with, but now it's even awesome-er.

    Ok, your second sentence is interesting. In fact, that one sentence may be the "come full circle" statement!

    So with that, in terms of showtime, aren't we all trying to peak at a specific point in time (i.e. at prejudging, etc.)? If so, then the first part of that sentence DOES become the more important matter, which I think Tommy is essentially talking about, right? If so, then I think breaking this stuff down to such isolated issues as specific food sources, and exact (or as exact as possible) timing of food intake, etc. really WOULD matter, and make a difference in truly "peaking".

    Isn't it crazy how specific this stuff can get?!?
    I think that's a very good point, and probably the one time during a 24 week diet where I think food source, carb source, meal timing, fiber content, electrolytes etc. all matter the most is the final week.

    I think I should be more clear that the final week's and especially the final day's approach to nutrition will look very different from the rest of the prep.
    Reply With Quote

  23. #113
    PNBA Pro Bodybuilder Quelly's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: North Shore City, Auckland, New Zealand
    Age: 37
    Posts: 17,255
    Rep Power: 15318
    Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Quelly is offline

    on the topic of insulin and fat loss

    absolutely awesome series, here's part 1, its a long read and in depth, but I guarantee it will rock your world with regards to many common preconceptions on the topic
    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
    Reply With Quote

  24. #114
    Registered User SHARK13's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Age: 42
    Posts: 33
    Rep Power: 0
    SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    SHARK13 is offline
    Originally Posted by Quelly View Post
    absolutely awesome series, here's part 1, its a long read and in depth, but I guarantee it will rock your world with regards to many common preconceptions on the topic
    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
    Quelly,
    Is it your stance that carbohydrate source is irrelavent during a contest preparation? I believe that Tommy was more discriminate in his CHO selection for his most recent preparation and it appeared to have made a very big difference. I think this is what sparked this whole dialogue.
    "The Shark"
    Reply With Quote

  25. #115
    Banned JohnBrowne's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Posts: 3,515
    Rep Power: 0
    JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000)
    JohnBrowne is offline
    Originally Posted by SHARK13 View Post
    Quelly,
    Is it your stance that carbohydrate source is irrelavent during a contest preparation? I believe that Tommy was more discriminate in his CHO selection for his most recent preparation and it appeared to have made a very big difference. I think this is what sparked this whole dialogue.
    What got to me was his "insulin control" talk and then references to the GI... where to start?
    Reply With Quote

  26. #116
    PNBA Pro Bodybuilder Quelly's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2005
    Location: North Shore City, Auckland, New Zealand
    Age: 37
    Posts: 17,255
    Rep Power: 15318
    Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) Quelly is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    Quelly is offline
    Originally Posted by SHARK13 View Post
    Quelly,
    Is it your stance that carbohydrate source is irrelavent during a contest preparation? I believe that Tommy was more discriminate in his CHO selection for his most recent preparation and it appeared to have made a very big difference. I think this is what sparked this whole dialogue.
    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    What got to me was his "insulin control" talk and then references to the GI... where to start?
    first off I REALLY recommend reading the full series of articles I posted, most people completely don't understand insulin's role in the body or its relationship, or perceived relationship, with bodyfat storage.

    but no that is not my stance that carb source is irrelevant. Satiety, energy levels, fiber intake, micronutrient intake and individual food allergies all directly relate to carb source. And these issues become even more important during a carb load for getting on stage.
    Carb source is very important, but not because of its effect on insulin, most of the common attempts at insulin manipulation are misguided and based on a faulty foundation of knowledge or a lack of understanding of endocrinology.
    Reply With Quote

  27. #117
    Banned JohnBrowne's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Posts: 3,515
    Rep Power: 0
    JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000)
    JohnBrowne is offline
    Originally Posted by Quelly View Post
    first off I REALLY recommend reading the full series of articles I posted, most people completely don't understand insulin's role in the body or its relationship, or perceived relationship, with bodyfat storage.

    but no that is not my stance that carb source is irrelevant. Satiety, energy levels, fiber intake, micronutrient intake and individual food allergies all directly relate to carb source. And these issues become even more important during a carb load for getting on stage.
    Carb source is very important, but not because of its effect on insulin, most of the common attempts at insulin manipulation are misguided and based on a faulty foundation of knowledge or a lack of understanding of endocrinology.
    this
    Reply With Quote

  28. #118
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder AustrianOakJr's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 41
    Posts: 7,629
    Rep Power: 8988
    AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000) AustrianOakJr is a name known to all. (+5000)
    AustrianOakJr is offline
    Originally Posted by Quelly View Post
    absolutely awesome series, here's part 1, its a long read and in depth, but I guarantee it will rock your world with regards to many common preconceptions on the topic
    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
    Funny, I just stumbled upon that web site yesterday. He is good. I loved that article......there was another series on the flaws associated with different methods of bodyfat measurement that was really interesting too.

    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    this
    Hey, whenever you can get to it....I asked you a question about those negs. And sent you a PM.
    "Who the Son sets free is free indeed....."

    WNBF Pro Natural Bodybuilder

    Check out my CELLUCOR Supplement log:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148746693&pagenumber=

    3DMJ Athlete
    Reply With Quote

  29. #119
    Registered User SHARK13's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
    Age: 42
    Posts: 33
    Rep Power: 0
    SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0) SHARK13 has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    SHARK13 is offline
    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    this
    I missed that, agreed and thank you for posting
    "The Shark"
    Reply With Quote

  30. #120
    Banned JohnBrowne's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2010
    Posts: 3,515
    Rep Power: 0
    JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000) JohnBrowne is a name known to all. (+5000)
    JohnBrowne is offline
    Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Funny, I just stumbled upon that web site yesterday. He is good. I loved that article......there was another series on the flaws associated with different methods of bodyfat measurement that was really interesting too.



    Hey, whenever you can get to it....I asked you a question about those negs. And sent you a PM.
    I negged you because I find your posts annoying
    Reply With Quote

Similar Threads

  1. The Never-Ending Bulk Thread... <-- Join it!
    By RobDude in forum Workout Journals
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-07-2006, 05:10 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-20-2006, 08:46 AM
  3. The Never-Ending Struggle.........or?
    By Leulsa in forum Journaling
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-15-2005, 11:09 AM
  4. The never ending strap debate
    By FJ and G in forum Over Age 35
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 03-14-2005, 09:36 AM
  5. Anyone here ever had 'the never-ending cold'
    By Buckstevens in forum Misc.
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-03-2003, 12:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts