Testosterone Boosters

**topspeed195** · 05-24-2003, 07:37 AM

OK stop laughing everyone. Im in my mid 30's and unfortunately I'm coming to the realization that my testosterone levels are definitely decreasing. Muscle mass is harder to gain and fat is harder to lose...plus other changes that I wont go into.

So here's my question- I'm thinking about a testosterone booster and I need to figure out the best way to go. I know there are so called natural boosters like ZMA and others herbal treatments. But I've also looked into the legal anabolic products like T-100.

I'm certain the T-100 or 1-testosterone products would be more effective- but they are also alot more expensive... alot more expensive.

OK- Im rambling now- simply put- have any of you 30 somethings in here tried testosterone boosters? Which ones and how well did they work?

**LakeMountD** · 05-24-2003, 08:53 AM

well if you want something like a prohormone (as you mentioned 1-testosterone) then you dont want 1-test, you want 4-ad which converts to regular testosterone.. youll definitely notice a difference.. 4-ad is cheap as well if you buy it in powder form then buy the transdermal yourself.. i believe the transdermal gel is like 15 bux from bdc nutrition then the 4-ad is like $1 a gram and you only need anywhere from 5-10 g depending on how much you want to do..

**topspeed195** · 05-25-2003, 07:45 AM

Ok that makes sense. So 4-AD is cheaper. Whats the cons of using 4-AD instead of 1-Test?

Has anyone else had any success with the non-prohormone testosterone boosters? There are a lot "herbal" ones marketed. Im really not impressed with most herbal remedies so I'm not expecting much here but considering the price diff I thought it was worthwhile to ask.

**topspeed195** · 05-25-2003, 07:56 AM

OK- I checked out 4-AD at
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/4andro.html

and apparantely they agree with you. I love the comment "The greatest testosterone boosting supplement". I love the price even more.

So with that said- is anyone out there using 4-AD? How's it working for you? I'd especially like to hear from guys over 30.

**LakeMountD** · 05-25-2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by topspeed195
OK- I checked out 4-AD at
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/4andro.html

and apparantely they agree with you. I love the comment "The greatest testosterone boosting supplement". I love the price even more.

So with that said- is anyone out there using 4-AD? How's it working for you? I'd especially like to hear from guys over 30.

well im not over 30 but even at my younger age i noticed A HELL OF A DIFFERENCE.. libidio was greatly raised as well as aggression.. it can also be kind of hard to sleep at times cause you feel energetic.. the only downside to 4-ad in my opinion is the fact that testosterone can aromatise to estrogen so if your going to be taking it for a while id have some anti-estrogens on hand just in case..

**topspeed195** · 05-25-2003, 08:03 PM

I've heard some anti-estrogens are important. How quickly did you notice improvement? Was it immediate or did it take a while? Did you notice a big difference in muscularity?

**LakeMountD** · 05-25-2003, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by topspeed195
I've heard some anti-estrogens are important. How quickly did you notice improvement? Was it immediate or did it take a while? Did you notice a big difference in muscularity?

you REALLY notice it like around the 4th day..

**topspeed195** · 05-26-2003, 07:24 AM

Sweet!

**Tkarrde** · 05-26-2003, 07:54 AM

Ergopharm's 6-OXO--typically used as a post-cycle recovery agent--is an excellent product for elevating testosterone levels, and does not generate the suppression issues accompanied by androgen use.

**LakeMountD** · 05-26-2003, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Tkarrde
Ergopharm's 6-OXO--typically used as a post-cycle recovery agent--is an excellent product for elevating testosterone levels, and does not generate the suppression issues accompanied by androgen use.

yup.. the only reason i didnt mention this first was cause he had already been mentioning androgens at the top so i figured id just go with that..

**topspeed195** · 05-26-2003, 10:00 AM

Tkarrde- have you used 6-OXO? How did it work for you?

**Tkarrde** · 05-26-2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by topspeed195
Tkarrde- have you used 6-OXO? How did it work for you?

I have used it, but not as a direct testosterone booster.

However, Patrick Arnold funded a study in which test levels were dramatically elevated, in fact DOUBLED (albeit at the high end of the dosage range).

Let me try and dig up the info

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php...t=1236&hl=6oxo

**LakeMountD** · 05-26-2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Tkarrde
I have used it, but not as a direct testosterone booster.

However, Patrick Arnold funded a study in which test levels were dramatically elevated, in fact DOUBLED (albeit at the high end of the dosage range).

Let me try and dig up the info

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php...t=1236&hl=6oxo

yeah i saw that too, however, 6-oxo is rediculously overpriced and to be able to see results like that you would have to buy quite a lot.. not worth it in my opinion..

**TESTOSTERONE** · 05-26-2003, 05:40 PM

if you have low test levels to begin with 6oxo will do you no good as far as boosting your test levels and halting estrogen,however speaking as a 30 something lifter the 4ad supps will help you drastically and using the 6oxo post cycle will keep the gains you made while preventing gyno,furthermore you might want to add 5 diol and a 1-test product along with the 4ad for a potent anabolic stack

**LakeMountD** · 05-26-2003, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by TESTOSTERONE
if you have low test levels to begin with 6oxo will do you no good as far as boosting your test levels and halting estrogen,however speaking as a 30 something lifter the 4ad supps will help you drastically and using the 6oxo post cycle will keep the gains you made while preventing gyno,furthermore you might want to add 5 diol and a 1-test product along with the 4ad for a potent anabolic stack

for just test boosting (from low levels) i dont think i would go with 5 diol.. serious aromatisation there..

**TESTOSTERONE** · 05-26-2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by LakeMountD
for just test boosting (from low levels) i dont think i would go with 5 diol.. serious aromatisation there..

yeah just as much as your natural testosterone does and what I mean by that is that it is about as likely to aromatize as does natural testosterone naturally..so 6 in one half dozen in the other,the target hormone here is testosterone isn't it? so we use supplements that target that particular hormone; besides I've used that stack personally with no sides and noticeable results,but hey, what works for one person might not work for another

**LakeMountD** · 05-26-2003, 08:35 PM

"5-diol is a compound that turns to testosterone, but as explained before needs an enzyme called 5,4-isomerase to switch its double bond to make it convert. So in a way, 5-diol needs to convert to 4-diol before it becomes testosterone, making it a less effective conversion. Its also less aggressive and the chance of estrogen-related side effects are considerable, not because of aromatisation prior to conversion but because it stimulates estrogens already present. ":

**TESTOSTERONE** · 05-26-2003, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by LakeMountD
"5-diol is a compound that turns to testosterone, but as explained before needs an enzyme called 5,4-isomerase to switch its double bond to make it convert. So in a way, 5-diol needs to convert to 4-diol before it becomes testosterone, making it a less effective conversion. Its also less aggressive and the chance of estrogen-related side effects are considerable, not because of aromatisation prior to conversion but because it stimulates estrogens already present. ":

even when taken in conjunction with 4 diol?

**topspeed195** · 05-27-2003, 06:50 AM

This is great information guys- thanks. Please continue debating...this is really interesting.

**LakeMountD** · 05-27-2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by TESTOSTERONE
even when taken in conjunction with 4 diol?

well since 5-diol has to convert to 4-diol before it converts to testosterone then simply upping the amount of 4-diol you take in would suffice.. 5-diol can increase the rate of conversion of other PH's but i still don't see it worth it to use it.. big cat mentions that a good stack would be 5-diol with nor-diol but he doesnt like that stack.. also he notes that 5-diol is an estrogen agonist which if your worried bout estrogen related issues like me then you would really be against using it.. i even take anti-e's for half of my 4-ad cycle..

you have to remember though i am using purely science and what i have done research on here.. i dont want to take anything away from testosterone because he has said he does the stack and says it works, so if it works then hell thats great, experience is much better than science..

but also this guy is only using this to boost test levels so i think smaller doses of 4-ad would work just fine.. add some dmso in there and hell he wouldnt have to use much at all..

**necke2deca** · 05-28-2003, 05:08 PM

> i believe the transdermal gel is like 15 bux from bdc nutrition then the 4-ad is like
$1 a gram and you only need anywhere from 5-10 g depending on how much you want to do..

Does BDCNutrion still carry the same gel?

**LakeMountD** · 05-28-2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by necke2deca
> i believe the transdermal gel is like 15 bux from bdc nutrition then the 4-ad is like
$1 a gram and you only need anywhere from 5-10 g depending on how much you want to do..

Does BDCNutrion still carry the same gel?

exactly right which is what makes 4-ad such a good thing... and yes they still have their gel and i believe it comes with dmso.

**bsder** · 05-28-2003, 05:56 PM

Begin Rant
Calling prohormones testosterone boosters is extremely misleading since they suppress natural testosterone production. Enough people have had sides like gyno and prostate problems that I'm convinced steroids are no more risky and certainly better researched. If you wouldn't do steroids you shouldn't be considering prohormones. Anyone doing prohormones or steroids should have their test levels and prostate checked out before and afterwards.
End Rant

**HeadDoc** · 05-29-2003, 08:27 PM

I second that latter comment. I started 1-test as much for an androgenic lift as an anabolic outcome. After the first six week cycle, I'm happy with the results: weight went up, bf% dropped, and I'm saluting the new day again. I took a PSA before and after the cycle. Haven't gotten the post results yet. I also started an off-cycle stack of several things-- and I'll do a PSA at then end of my current month off cycle. HeadDoc

**topspeed195** · 05-29-2003, 08:30 PM

The PSA is a good idea. Did you mention to your Dr you were getting the test because you were considering doing prohormones? I can imagine how my Dr would react if I said that. Im interested in knowing the results of your post cycle PSA. Please post when you get the results.

**HeadDoc** · 05-29-2003, 08:47 PM

I went to my doc with the results of a saliva test and he was very supportive. He admitted his ignorance of prohormones and helped me create a system of periodic testing to assure safety. He knows what I'm using- I give him printed material on everything I'm using.HeadDoc

**HeadDoc** · 06-04-2003, 08:20 PM

Just got the PSA post a 6 week cycle on 1 Test. Normal range again. Both total and free test were below normal. I expected this. I'm on an off-cycle stack of phosphatydal serine, carnitine, tribbulus, and ZMA. Have gained back some bodyfat. Strenght is about the same. Androgenic effects of this stack are good. Next off-cycle I may add 6Oxy and swap the simple tribulus for some version more refined to boost LH. Next blood work is at the end of this 6 week off-cycle. HeadDoc

**topspeed195** · 06-05-2003, 01:29 PM

Thanks for posting the post test. That's very reassuring.

**JamesWashington** · 08-31-2009, 12:39 PM

where can you get these boosters?

**elcaballoloco** · 08-31-2009, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by JamesWashington

where can you get these boosters?

My neighbor Doc Brown rents out his modified Delorean. It should take you where you need to be.

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