Power Clean Critique - 2.5k Reps for Advice

[godsangina2]

Because suggesting a lower 2nd pull is just bad advice in general - and especially with the OP.

He doesn't need to change where he pulls from, he needs to stay on his heels and not use his arms.

Nobody needs to start their 2nd pull as soon as they clear their knees.

You say that like it's fact when it's just your opinion. I never said his second pull should be that low you're putting words in my mouth. Are you autistic or something? Seriously, I don't want to argue with you, I gave input and he can take it or leave it.

[olyw8lifter]

You say that like it's fact when it's just your opinion. I never said his second pull should be that low you're putting words in my mouth. Are you autistic or something? Seriously, I don't want to argue with you, I gave input and he can take it or leave it.

Well, it's not just his opinion, but the opinion of world-class coaches.

[godsangina2]

Well, it's not just his opinion, but the opinion of world-class coaches.

Sigh...

You two can continue fellating each other, I've given my input and he can take it or leave it idgaf.

[crackyflipside]

.......I wrote a lot but then deleted it. Study this:

[OrthoStrength]

Your first pull is not correct. You are pulling the weight off the floor with your back and not your legs, this is causing the bar to be in the wrong position for transitioning into the second pull. I would work on pulls from the floor to just above the knee and FOCUS on using the legs to push the knees back (the bar follows the knees back, BTW). Your lower back is probably weak, so these types of pulls will help strenghten it and get you go feel the correct position. Once you get that down, then move to hang cleans from the knee. Lower the weight slowly to the knee maintaining correct position (push the hips back and hang over the bar), then quickly change directions into a power or full clean.

If these don't work, then like already mentioned, find a coach to straighten this out, otherwise it will never get corrected.

can clarify on that on that olyw8lifter?

wouldn't that just make the trainer straighten their legs too quickly causing their hips to shoot up in the 1st pull to use their back anyways?

[olyw8lifter]

can clarify on that on that olyw8lifter?

wouldn't that just make the trainer straighten their legs too quickly causing their hips to shoot up in the 1st pull to use their back anyways?

I will try, but there are better people on here that can explain it better.

If you neglect keeping your chest up during the pull, then yes, the trainer will straighten the legs too quickly causing the hips to shoot up. Remember, the first pull is not a "fast" pull, but a controlled pull to get the bar/weight into position for the second pull. There is a good description of the first pull on Catalyst Athletics site here: http://www.cathletics.com/articles/a...p?articleID=49

Read through this and I think you will understand this concept better.

[BTBAM]

I will try, but there are better people on here that can explain it better.

If you neglect keeping your chest up during the pull, then yes, the trainer will straighten the legs too quickly causing the hips to shoot up. Remember, the first pull is not a "fast" pull, but a controlled pull to get the bar/weight into position for the second pull. There is a good description of the first pull on Catalyst Athletics site here: http://www.cathletics.com/articles/a...p?articleID=49

Read through this and I think you will understand this concept better.

Okay, I am getting a lot of conflicting advice from the link you posted. I was under the impression that shoulders over the bar throughout the lift was the more optimum positioning, but this article suggests that shoulders barely over the bar or even not at all with a vertical torso is the best way to lift? I am very confused.

I am at the gym now so I was going to drill some more technique in, was thinking about trying out the methods in the link you posted to see how it feels but I'm not sure. Any input?

[3rd pull]

Okay, I am getting a lot of conflicting advice

this is why it is best to avoid the internet when trying to learn how to lift

[godsangina2]

Okay, I am getting a lot of conflicting advice from the link you posted. I was under the impression that shoulders over the bar throughout the lift was the more optimum positioning, but this article suggests that shoulders barely over the bar or even not at all with a vertical torso is the best way to lift? I am very confused.

I am at the gym now so I was going to drill some more technique in, was thinking about trying out the methods in the link you posted to see how it feels but I'm not sure. Any input?

In my opinion this is why you need to go by trial and error, keep what works for you and dump the rest; experts disagree, you will hear conflicting advice etc. The best thing to do is to focus on the stuff they all agree on, and trial and error the rest.

[GqArtguy]

Okay, I am getting a lot of conflicting advice from the link you posted. I was under the impression that shoulders over the bar throughout the lift was the more optimum positioning, but this article suggests that shoulders barely over the bar or even not at all with a vertical torso is the best way to lift? I am very confused.

I am at the gym now so I was going to drill some more technique in, was thinking about trying out the methods in the link you posted to see how it feels but I'm not sure. Any input?

Id consider the source of the advice and the reasoning behind it. There are a lot of US coaches who do not teach these lifts properly which sucks, and who are stuck in their ways which sucks more. I teach the lift very similarly to the article posted with some professional differences but the fundamentals are still there. At least Greg gives reasons why the opposite side is not optimal. What are your reasons for doing the lift with shoulders very over the bar other than your impression or positioning (the latter which is addressed in the article)?

Anyway, in his article hes talking about barely being over in the start position. Youll get over the bar naturally during the lift if you focus on the weight distribution and torso position he talks about.

[BTBAM]

Id consider the source of the advice and the reasoning behind it. There are a lot of US coaches who do not teach these lifts properly which sucks, and who are stuck in their ways which sucks more. I teach the lift very similarly to the article posted with some professional differences but the fundamentals are still there. At least Greg gives reasons why the opposite side is not optimal. What are your reasons for doing the lift with shoulders very over the bar other than your impression or positioning (the latter which is addressed in the article)?

Anyway, in his article hes talking about barely being over in the start position. Youll get over the bar naturally during the lift if you focus on the weight distribution and torso position he talks about.

OK, after reading your post (especially the last part, bolded) this makes much more sense to me now. My first reasoning for lifting with shoulders over the bar would be to get the bar under my and maintain a constant back angle, pushing my knees back and keeping arms vertical. It is easiest to do with with shoulders over the bar. It also was my first time actively positioning myself in a proper way to begin a good second pull and get proper vertical force applied to the bar with triple extension, so I started to like it immediately.

I tried with positions the way the article mentions today with just 40 and 60 kg and it felt very snappy and proper. Getting my knees out of the way was difficult, but pushing them to the side and out worked for me (I'm not sure if this is the proper way to do this, but it appears the chinese lifters do it often). Any input on the matter?

[J.L.C.]

That article is an excerpt from Greg's book - an excellent book!

Reading that section several times helped me make some adjustments to my start position and first pull, which really seem to be helping with consistency. Letting my back angle change slightly to prevvent going around my knees is still taking some getting used to, but overall Everett's description is working well for me.

[olyw8lifter]

Sorry about the conflicting advice, but I'm glad you got it worked out. I have a tendancy to read something and it makes perfect sense to me, but to others will be confusing.

[GqArtguy]

OK, after reading your post (especially the last part, bolded) this makes much more sense to me now. My first reasoning for lifting with shoulders over the bar would be to get the bar under my and maintain a constant back angle, pushing my knees back and keeping arms vertical. It is easiest to do with with shoulders over the bar. It also was my first time actively positioning myself in a proper way to begin a good second pull and get proper vertical force applied to the bar with triple extension, so I started to like it immediately.

Ok this is addressed (and dismissed as inefficient) in the article.

I tried with positions the way the article mentions today with just 40 and 60 kg and it felt very snappy and proper. Getting my knees out of the way was difficult, but pushing them to the side and out worked for me (I'm not sure if this is the proper way to do this, but it appears the chinese lifters do it often). Any input on the matter?

When you spay your feet out like that, its easier to just push outward than back (and he in fact says that you should push out such that the knees touch the inside of the arms). I personally feel more comfortable not spaying my feet out and pushing back, but this is a professional difference and I still have to make sure the same fundamentals described in the article occur no matter how my feet (or my lifters' feet) are oriented.