Time for a Reality Check - BF Estimates & Fat Burners

[Cape1]

Let the flaming begin. Time to get real here. This is geared toward the poor soles who come to this board, frustrated with their current physical state and looking for sound advice. Unfortunately, this entire board is filled to the brim with bad information and enough confusion to make the new guy give up. Here are two topics that have topped the scales of rediculousness.

BODY FAT % Estimates:
NOBODY on this board can tell you what your body fat is, or even come remotely close, by looking at any picture, esspecially the typical BB.com kind; the cloudy, point the camera in my bathroom mirror variety. If your body fat percentage number is that important to you - and it shouldn't be when you're 30+ percent overwieght - go get it tested someplace. Calipers used by someone experienced is a fairy accurate measurement, readily available and dirt cheep. If you're facinated by your number, look into underwater weighing at your local university. For me, I will trust the mirror - it just don't lie.

Fat Burners:
Supplement Companies spend millions of dollars each year to have Professional Level physique athletes, who have dieted themselved into oblivion, have been colored up, shined up and subject to high level professional photography, stand in a magazine add touting the latest fat burner as being their key to success. If you're foolish enough to beleive that, you and your money are better off apart anyway.

OTC fat burners are useless. People usuaully think they work because they are dieting while taking them and they see that they lost weight. Well, Holt S***! Isn't that a marvel of modern physiology. You ate less, worked out and lost weight. must be that hydroxycut you took.

Don't waste your money. The only metabolism altering drugs are not legal and, even if they were, have risks' and do nothing for you that a little extra diet time wont.

There is no angle, magic pill or salvation in a vial. Diet, training, consistency and patience. That is the only thing that works. If you don't believe that, prepare for failure.

Follow the basics and good luck.

[snooks86]

[lee__d]

soles

feet?

[Cape1]

feet?

Well, gentlemen, I'm just trying to save the new guys some frustration. Sorry you're both bored with the post.

[JustLooking777]

The following is my humble newbie opinion:

Fat Burners. It is true that those miracle diet pills you see on late night TV that promise a 30 lb loss a month while still eating junk food and not exercising are bogus. It is also true that calorie deficits and hard work are effective for fat loss.

However, I disagree with the crowd who are adamant that fat burners are useless wastes of money 100% of the time. I think if someone approaches a fat burner as a *SUPPLEMENT* in a healthy sense, it can actually help them and it is helping me. Emphasis on *SUPPLEMENT* and not *DEPENDENT.* If anyone believes they can just pop a pill and have the weight fall off, then I agree they are gullible.

But if someone wants to *SUPPLEMENT* a fat burner in with their cut, I completely understand. Especially because there can be a lot more to fat burners than just 'fat loss.'

They can serve as an appetite suppressant so the person has an easier time resisting cravings and is able to eat more clean. They can serve as an energy booster so you can get that extra push in the gym and you can work harder. And they can increase your resting heart rate so you burn more.

What actually led me to BB.com was researching and asking about fat burners and the members here were really helpful.

So as long as the person realizes it's a supplement and not a magic pill, I think they have a healthy attitude towards it. But I do agree that anyone who thinks looking at the pros endorsing the product is a good indication of what they'll look like is a bit misguided.

For instance, when I purchase a protein powder, I realize that powder alone isn't going to make me look like Miss Fitness America. But I purchase it for the supplement. Same goes with fat burners.

Body Fat. No strong opinion on this one since I haven't asked the members to estimate my percentage. However, it doesn't bother me with those who do. I'm 5'7", started out at 130 lbs, and my measurements were waist 28.5, hips 40.25, and neck 12.25. Female. According to THIS estimate, I was 28.5% body fat. Which seems about right at the time. However, the trainer at the gym with all her pro tools told me I was 36% body fat. Hell no.

So if someone wants to toss their pic up to get a consensus from the members, whatever floats their boat. None of my business. I can see how someone might not know how to tell body fat so they want to ask the board. None of my business.

I *DO* agree with the OP, though, in that if you are massively obese, you don't need to be asking what your percentage is. All you need to know (and you already know) is that you need to lose that fat! If you have a six pack and veins popping out of your skin, all you really need to know is that you had a very successful cut. So really, knowing your BF% is just gravy.

But, again, whatever the members want to do. I get a bit confused with all the threads I keep seeing that kind of talk down to members for the way they do things that don't really matter. If you want to supplement with a fat burner: Go for it. If not, don't. If you want to post your pic for a BF assessment: Go for it. If not, don't. lol

[Iam918]

< snip >

There is no angle, magic pill or salvation in a vial. Diet, training, consistency and patience. That is the only thing that works. If you don't believe that, prepare for failure.

Follow the basics and good luck.

Very well said.
And Haters just goin' to hate.

I originally posted this in the nutrition forum, but it probably belongs here. You only have to follow three simple rules:

- Workout 3 times a week with weights.
- Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass.
- Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week.

Success is 100% guaranteed. There's really not much more to it.

A more elaborate guide is posted later in this thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post401681611
Always check if newer versions of the guide have already been posted after that.

[Cape1]

My whole goal was to save new guys frustration. I don't have a probelm with a guy asking for a body fat estimate. My only problem is that the answer they get is not even close to accurate. They just need to know that they are asking a question to which they are amost assured a wrong answer. Why ask it? And, what they hell difference does it even make?

Fat burners. Maybe not "useless" by definition. Put it this way, about the only thing they are good for is crushing your apetite. There are readily available remedies in your local drug store that can do the same thing; a lifetime supply of which could be purchased for about the cost of one month of the popular GNC fat burner.

If I were going to do an OTC fat burner, the only one I might even consider is Ephederine HCL and Caffeine. While it makes an extrmely small difference, it is the only thing out there that is proven. Also, incidently, you can buy about a 3 month supply for less than a month worth of the more popular "fat burner".

But, to the new guy who is 30% + body fat. You don't need a fat burner. The good news is that you will make unbeleivable and immediate progress by just getting you diet tidied up a bit.

[Cape1]

Very well said.
And Haters just goin' to hate.

I hear you..

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), those two responses are right in line with my expectations.

[Chuck2600]

I agree mainly with what you said but in all fairness some of us would like to have a general idea of our body weight to get an idea of what we may look like once we reach a certain body fat%. I can picture what I may look like @ 195 at 10% bf, it gives me motivation knowing that I have a decent level of muscularity and if I reach my desired body fat level I should have a decent physique.
Also I think you should include something in your post about cutting on less then 2kcal per day. There are soo many people on this forum (including ppl 200lbs+) that think it's okay to eat the daily calorie requirements of a 10 year old girl.

[wave_length]

There is no angle, magic pill or salvation in a vial. Diet, training, consistency and patience. That is the only thing that works. If you don't believe that, prepare for failure.

Follow the basics and good luck.

WOW, you just erased 99% of nonsense on this board.

I would listen to this man.

[wave_length]

I agree mainly with what you said but in all fairness some of us would like to have a general idea of our body weight to get an idea of what we may look like once we reach a certain body fat%. I can picture what I may look like @ 195 at 10% bf, it gives me motivation knowing that I have a decent level of muscularity and if I reach my desired body fat level I should have a decent physique.
Also I think you should include something in your post about cutting on less then 2kcal per day. There are soo many people on this forum (including ppl 200lbs+) that think it's okay to eat the daily calorie requirements of a 10 year old girl.

For the vast majority of people, there is absolutely nothing wrong with cutting on less than 2kcals. There is no magic number. At some point, body composition will suffer, but surely not at 2kcals.

[Cape1]

For the vast majority of people, there is absolutely nothing wrong with cutting on less than 2kcals. There is no magic number. At some point, body composition will suffer, but surely not at 2kcals.

This is true. People tend to over-estimate the amount of food they need. They also place way too much stock in macro nutrient misconceptions. Protein is as big a culprit as Carbs. You just don't need as much protein and most gym rats think. And, carbs don't make you fat.

The only qualification I would place on the calorie level is this: Eat as many calories as you can to keep moving the fat. To your point, tt's different for all.

Here's an example for everyone:
Right now I'm eating north of 3k and still loosing a couple of pounds a week without much cardio. 4 months from now, however, I'll likely be down to 2200-2500 calories with 2 hours of cardio a week or more. So my point: if I were to start at 2200 calories and 2 hours of cardio a week today, where will I be 4 months from now? 1500 calories and 6 hours of cardio?? at some point my progress would start to work against me. the moral of the story. don't come out swinging for the fences. You'll loose weight alright but in the end you'll neither like how you look nor how you feel. That one, sadly, I can attest to from experience.

[crosswalkryan]

This is true. People tend to over-estimate the amount of food they need. They also place way too much stock in macro nutrient misconceptions. Protein is as big a culprit as Carbs. You just don't need as much protein and most gym rats think. And, carbs don't make you fat.

The only qualification I would place on the calorie level is this: Eat as many calories as you can to keep moving the fat. To your point, tt's different for all.

Here's an example for everyone:
Right now I'm eating north of 3k and still loosing a couple of pounds a week without much cardio. 4 months from now, however, I'll likely be down to 2200-2500 calories with 2 hours of cardio a week or more. So my point: if I were to start at 2200 calories and 2 hours of cardio a week today, where will I be 4 months from now? 1500 calories and 6 hours of cardio?? at some point my progress would start to work against me. the moral of the story. don't come out swinging for the fences. You'll loose weight alright but in the end you'll neither like how you look nor how you feel. That one, sadly, I can attest to from experience.

QFT...curious though what macro nutrient breakdown are you using when you say you eat less protein than most gym rats

[Virten]

good post! i used man scorch thermogenic pills. at first i followed the instructions religiously. after a while, i stopped taking it for a week and still saw results because of my diet and exercise routine. after realizing this, i took it a pill a day to stay awake at work....lol

[pr0nstar]

My whole goal was to save new guys frustration. I don't have a probelm with a guy asking for a body fat estimate. My only problem is that the answer they get is not even close to accurate. They just need to know that they are asking a question to which they are amost assured a wrong answer. Why ask it? And, what they hell difference does it even make?

Fat burners. Maybe not "useless" by definition. Put it this way, about the only thing they are good for is crushing your apetite. There are readily available remedies in your local drug store that can do the same thing; a lifetime supply of which could be purchased for about the cost of one month of the popular GNC fat burner.

If I were going to do an OTC fat burner, the only one I might even consider is Ephederine HCL and Caffeine. While it makes an extrmely small difference, it is the only thing out there that is proven. Also, incidently, you can buy about a 3 month supply for less than a month worth of the more popular "fat burner".

But, to the new guy who is 30% + body fat. You don't need a fat burner. The good news is that you will make unbeleivable and immediate progress by just getting you diet tidied up a bit.

But a lot of people think Fat Burning pills help that much, maybe it's a placebo thing that can help in the end. And true, I'd personally only ever buy EC/A stack and use that, but then again I've read it's only a 5% boost to thermo.. so as you said nothing huge. But it still is something for dirt cheap for others to use and many preach it's benefits.

But all those 30$+ pill combos are useless I agree, when you can get the EC/A stack so cheap and it does the same basic principle.

A lot of people wish there was a miracle fat burning pill. Same with miracle penis/breast enlargement pill Hence all these damn spam messages in my gmail account!

I've always preached to anyone asking me how I lose/lost weight.

90% diet, 10% hard work and patience.

[kid5]

I just recently started working out becuase of health issues. Im 26 yrs old, 5 ft 10 inches and weigh 232lbs. Now Ive always been a chubby guy but recently i decided to get off my butt and finally make a change for myself. The trainer at the gym I go to recommended I take the Pro5 protein shake in the morning in replacement of my breakfast, which before i wouldnt even eat breakfast, have a regular lunch, and after my workout have another protein shake. Which would be around 7 pm and if i was still hungry just to eat something lite, preferrably nothing after 8. He also adviced me to take Adicore (fat Burner) which would help with my fat lose goals. Is this a bad advice?? Should I be taking these things or just continue my regular workout and watch what I eat??

[pr0nstar]

I just recently started working out becuase of health issues. Im 26 yrs old, 5 ft 10 inches and weigh 232lbs. Now Ive always been a chubby guy but recently i decided to get off my butt and finally make a change for myself. The trainer at the gym I go to recommended I take the Pro5 protein shake in the morning in replacement of my breakfast, which before i wouldnt even eat breakfast, have a regular lunch, and after my workout have another protein shake. Which would be around 7 pm and if i was still hungry just to eat something lite, preferrably nothing after 8. He also adviced me to take Adicore (fat Burner) which would help with my fat lose goals. Is this a bad advice?? Should I be taking these things or just continue my regular workout and watch what I eat??

It's up to you.. just ensure you're getting the correct macros and cal intake is the same and you should be losing 1-2lbs / week if you're doing it slow and healthy and hopefully maintaining muscle mass.

Also remember some trainers are great with weights, routines, etc.. but are terrible when it comes to diet, that's why there's nutritionists out there.

Most fat burns main component is some sort of stimulant .. caffeine, ephera based products, etc and they're great for energy, but you can get the same thing from a caffeine pill or a strong black coffee.

Patience and hardwork and consistent diet is the way to lose weight permanently and the healthy way.

[kid5]

It's up to you.. just ensure you're getting the correct macros and cal intake is the same and you should be losing 1-2lbs / week if you're doing it slow and healthy and hopefully maintaining muscle mass.

Also remember some trainers are great with weights, routines, etc.. but are terrible when it comes to diet, that's why there's nutritionists out there.

Most fat burns main component is some sort of stimulant .. caffeine, ephera based products, etc and they're great for energy, but you can get the same thing from a caffeine pill or a strong black coffee.

Patience and hardwork and consistent diet is the way to lose weight permanently and the healthy way.

Sorry for my ignorance but i dont really know what macros are... Im trying to stay at around 1600-2200 calories a day but i dont really understand the rest. Im just looking at the lables counting the calories..

[pr0nstar]

Macros = Macronutrients aka where your cals come from.

Typical math...
1g of fat = 9 Cals
1g of carb or protein = 4 Cals

So 100g Carbs = 400 Cals / 10g of Fat = 90 Cals / 100g of Protein = 400 Cals.

Also remember there is bad fats, healthy fats and to try to intake 1g of Protein for every 1lb of Lean Body Mass. SO if your goal is so 10% bf @ 180lbs, you'd shoot for about 162g of Protein / day.

Also, stay away from refined sugars, pop, juice and bad bad fats such as deep fried anything.

And remember to cheat/refeed if you can once / week where you go over your maintenance. And a Cheeseburger is still good, just not every day or week Moderation.

[Delgadido]

i think EC is a magic combination... not gonna lie

[Cape1]

QFT...curious though what macro nutrient breakdown are you using when you say you eat less protein than most gym rats

Right now I weight 235 pounds and I'm taking in between 190-200 grams of protein.

But a lot of people think Fat Burning pills help that much, maybe it's a placebo thing that can help in the end. And true, I'd personally only ever buy EC/A stack and use that, but then again I've read it's only a 5% boost to thermo.. so as you said nothing huge. But it still is something for dirt cheap for others to use and many preach it's benefits.

But all those 30$+ pill combos are useless I agree, when you can get the EC/A stack so cheap and it does the same basic principle.

A lot of people wish there was a miracle fat burning pill. Same with miracle penis/breast enlargement pill Hence all these damn spam messages in my gmail account!

I've always preached to anyone asking me how I lose/lost weight.

90% diet, 10% hard work and patience.

From my reading, E/C will increase it by about 2%. Clen will get you to around 5% increase somewhere. T3 and Clen combined can get you quite a bit higher but now we are talking not-so-legal stuff. OTC stuff will give you a caffeine buzz and cut your appetite but that's about all.

I just recently started working out becuase of health issues. Im 26 yrs old, 5 ft 10 inches and weigh 232lbs. Now Ive always been a chubby guy but recently i decided to get off my butt and finally make a change for myself. The trainer at the gym I go to recommended I take the Pro5 protein shake in the morning in replacement of my breakfast, which before i wouldnt even eat breakfast, have a regular lunch, and after my workout have another protein shake. Which would be around 7 pm and if i was still hungry just to eat something lite, preferrably nothing after 8. He also adviced me to take Adicore (fat Burner) which would help with my fat lose goals. Is this a bad advice?? Should I be taking these things or just continue my regular workout and watch what I eat??

Unless you're misquoting the guy, your trainer seems to know less about Nutrition than my 10 year old. I would get another trainer. Eat balanced meals at a calorie deficit. A post workout protein drink is fine. Replacing Breakfast with a protein drink??? COME ON MAN!!

[kid5]

Unless you're misquoting the guy, your trainer seems to know less about Nutrition than my 10 year old. I would get another trainer. Eat balanced meals at a calorie deficit. A post workout protein drink is fine. Replacing Breakfast with a protein drink??? COME ON MAN!!

Nah, bro i aint. i spoke with the trainer who told me this over the weekend and he again told me the same thing.. He told me to drink that Pro5 protein shake in the morning instead of breakfast and to eat a healthy lunch at around noon. So its pretty much shake at around 8:30 and lunch at noon.

[Cape1]

Nah, bro i aint. i spoke with the trainer who told me this over the weekend and he again told me the same thing.. He told me to drink that Pro5 protein shake in the morning instead of breakfast and to eat a healthy lunch at around noon. So its pretty much shake at around 8:30 and lunch at noon.

Protein "shakes" are supplements to an already well thought out eating plan. Replacing solid meals with shakes is really never a great idea and should be avoided. Add a bit of whey protein to a meal if that meal doesn't deliver the necessary grams of protein; use whey post workout if you want as it is faster acting than most meats. Don't replace meals with the stuff.

HOnestly, even post workout you don't need whey protein. There is absolutely nothing wrong with BCAA's and Waxxy Maize post workout with a solid protein and carb meal shortly thereafter.