This whole homosexual thing...

[John H.]

Originally posted by sqweezer
then why would a gay man have sex with a women then, . Gay men are spreading aids like wildfires. Giving it to men, then the men giving it to women. Get rid of gays you get rid of aids. Anyone remember ayde's candy, it had the aids symbol on it, trippin

Hi Sqweezer. AIDS has NEVER BEEN JUST a Homosexual disease - NEVER. You need to do some medical research here to find out for yourself. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

Originally posted by supersize77
Agreed. God has already passed judgment on them by saying that homosexuality is a sin. Myself and other Christians merely pass this information on to others because we believe it to be true. Truth be told, we ALL have fallen short of God's standard of perfection: straight, gay, everyone. The difference is that once a person recieves Christ as Savior they have the ability to no longer continue in a particular sin nor will they.Even though they will still commit sins from time to time they will have the ability to struggle against sin. As Christians we are no longer a slave to the flesh or our natural impulses, and are continually being formed into the image of Christ (which will only be complete after death).

Hi Supersize. NO God DID NOT - EVER. NOR did Christ - EVER. You are putting words into Their mouths. Take Care, John H.

[CalcioFreak]

'The beauty of religious mania is that is has the power to explain everything. Once God is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window.'
-Stephen King-

[CalcioFreak]

'I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct for revenge for which no expedient is sufficiently poisonous, secret, subterranean, petty -- I call it the one mortal blemish of mankind.'
-Friedrich Nietzche-

[supersize77]

John H.,

Seems you're not to found of religion, and I'm assuming this includes Christianity. If you do not start with the presuposition that the Bible is true or any other religious book or creed, where do you get answers? You said something about nature-Is that where we find the answers to life? By the way I do agree that all religions besides Christianity have caused way more harm than good in my opinion because I berlieve they are false and misleading no matter how good their moral standards may be.

[bts327]

Originally posted by supersize77
I agree that the man is a very eloquent speaker, but the content in my opinion was very postmodern in that he denies absolutes. Sort of mystical, no solid interprtations of God etc-this 'whatever is good for you' approach towards ones interpretation of God is a very flimsy foundation to build ones life on.

I dont think he disputing God so much as he is dusputing childish ideals and archaic belief systems.
Basically he is saying that "God", "Truth", "Reality", or what you will, are simply words and nothing more. People put so much into beliefs and ideals that they become more important than the individual and even human life; and nothing , no belief, no set of ideals or standards, no matter how fantastical, are more important than the life of even one single human being. Because these beliefs are based mainly on what happened in the past or what will happen in the future, and the past and the future only exist inside the mind; therefore have absolutely nothing to do with reality, with poverty, with starvation, with human suffering etc. I mean if I was laying in a ditch in Ethiopia, or some other non-descipt, exotic local, starving to death, and someone handed me a bible, and told me that jesus loved me and died for me,and if I accept this as the gospel, all will be jiffy, Id tell him to go get pissed. That is reality my friend, the here and the now. Not some strange egotistical mind trip that has you believing that someday "in the future", you will die and based upon the deeds you have down you will either go to some magical land were you fly around all day cuming uncontrolably on yourself, or conversly, be cast down in some dark pit with flames a-plenty, heavy metal and demon bitches swinging from your testicles, shoving hot pokers up your arse for eternity. And what is eternity? Have you ever considered that time is something made up by man as well. I mean havent you ever said to yourself," Gee today is going by so smoothly and swell", and on other days,"Goddammit, I wish this ****ing day would hurry up and get the **** over with. I mean who said time is a constant, and what do they know. The world is a pretty ****ed up place and one of the main reasons is religion. So, you can either live in your head, in some made up fairytale world, that someone else told you about. Or you can truly experience life, put on a ****ing smile, and actually do some good. And who knows maybe one day you will find God. But mark my words, it will not be through any set system of living, religious or otherwise.

[bts327]

Originally posted by supersize77
John H.,

Seems you're not to found of religion, and I'm assuming this includes Christianity. If you do not start with the presuposition that the Bible is true or any other religious book or creed, where do you get answers? You said something about nature-Is that where we find the answers to life? By the way I do agree that all religions besides Christianity have caused way more harm than good in my opinion because I berlieve they are false and misleading no matter how good their moral standards may be.

You must be joking, right. What about the Crusades my friend, millions were slaughtered by the catholics because of their belief in Christianity. And what about what is gonig on in the world today? Didnt we (Americans) just have two pretty ****ing big building blown up? Arent there like millions of Islamic fundaminalists out there gunning for Christians and Jews the world over? I mean believe as you wish, I am not going to stop you. But use just a little common sense. I mean do you think that God would actually want people destroying themselves over beliefs and ideals, over mere words. If he does, than he is just a small and pathetic as the human race, and Ill be looking for him with a neon pink dildo and a tub of astroglide to set him straight.

[CalcioFreak]

Originally posted by supersize77
John H.,

By the way I do agree that all religions besides Christianity have caused way more harm than good in my opinion because I berlieve they are false and misleading no matter how good their moral standards may be.

Have you ever heard of the Inquisition? How about the Crusades?
'I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of the coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.' That's from Thomas Jefferson.
Again I quote Bertrand Russell because it seems so relevant here, 'Beware the man of a single book.'
Galileo, who was imprisoned by the church for the heinous crime of suggesting that the Sun, not the Earth was the center of our planetary system, was quoted as saying 'I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.'
Your statement that religions other than Christianity have caused harm is so myopic it's practically an exercise in absurdity.

[el cid]

Everyone on this board has said exactly how I feel about organized religion. Nice job to everyone expressing their beliefs. And to supersize77, you strike me as the typical naive, ignorant christian. You're obviously not very well informed on what your talking about. But I don't think many religious people are.

[supersize77]

Originally posted by bts327
I dont think he disputing God so much as he is dusputing childish ideals and archaic belief systems.
Basically he is saying that "God", "Truth", "Reality", or what you will, are simply words and nothing more. People put so much into beliefs and ideals that they become more important than the individual and even human life; and nothing , no belief, no set of ideals or standards, no matter how fantastical, are more important than the life of even one single human being. Because these beliefs are based mainly on what happened in the past or what will happen in the future, and the past and the future only exist inside the mind; therefore have absolutely nothing to do with reality, with poverty, with starvation, with human suffering etc. I mean if I was laying in a ditch in Ethiopia, or some other non-descipt, exotic local, starving to death, and someone handed me a bible, and told me that jesus loved me and died for me,and if I accept this as the gospel, all will be jiffy, Id tell him to go get pissed. That is reality my friend, the here and the now. Not some strange egotistical mind trip that has you believing that someday "in the future", you will die and based upon the deeds you have down you will either go to some magical land were you fly around all day cuming uncontrolably on yourself, or conversly, be cast down in some dark pit with flames a-plenty, heavy metal and demon bitches swinging from your testicles, shoving hot pokers up your arse for eternity. And what is eternity? Have you ever considered that time is something made up by man as well. I mean havent you ever said to yourself," Gee today is going by so smoothly and swell", and on other days,"Goddammit, I wish this ****ing day would hurry up and get the **** over with. I mean who said time is a constant, and what do they know. The world is a pretty ****ed up place and one of the main reasons is religion. So, you can either live in your head, in some made up fairytale world, that someone else told you about. Or you can truly experience life, put on a ****ing smile, and actually do some good. And who knows maybe one day you will find God. But mark my words, it will not be through any set system of living, religious or otherwise.

First off I don't beleive it has to do with anything I did, it was Christs sacrficial attoning work of dieing on the cross for my sins that gets me into heaven. Time was created by God, and we are bound by it-thats why we grow old and seem to never have enough of it. The world is a bad place because it is fallen from it former status as a perfect environment unaffected by sin, and now everything even the various religions are affected by that fall. Its the heart of man not religion that is the root of all evil in the world. I have found God and I pray to Him daily, but you are right it wasn't through religion or a code of conduct-it was through Jesus Christ who died for my sins and bridged the gap between me and God. If it was an ego trip I might tell you it is because of something I did, but its not because of anything I did, God saved me out of my sin because it pleased Him to do so. People have disrespected and disbelieved Christians for centuries, so I expect the same treatment, but make no mistake we have overcome the world and just as Christians always have, we will endure forever.

[el cid]

supesize77, don't get me wrong you seem like a smart guy, but you said you christians will endure forever, what about the people that lived before christ, what happened to them when they died? What about the people who die these days without ever hearing of christianity, or being born into other religions? Do they just go to hell for not believing in your beliefs? I don't care what any person says, this world would be a MUCH better place without religion, and we all just lived in peace. But it will never be that simple, because all religions are ignorant to the world around them, and what is best for the people of this world.

[supersize77]

Originally posted by el cid
supesize77, don't get me wrong you seem like a smart guy, but you said you christians will endure forever, what about the people that lived before christ, what happened to them when they died? What about the people who die these days without ever hearing of christianity, or being born into other religions? Do they just go to hell for not believing in your beliefs? I don't care what any person says, this world would be a MUCH better place without religion, and we all just lived in peace. But it will never be that simple, because all religions are ignorant to the world around them, and what is best for the people of this world.

Thanks for the compliment. The people that lived before Christ were treated diferently-they went to a place called Abrahams Bosom (sort of a waiting room) if they were judged to be righteous people, and the unrighteous went to hell (I dont know the criteria for being righteous but I definitely dont met it). As far as never hearing or being born into another religion the bible says that everyone will have a chance to receive Christ (I know of a hardcore Muslim who is now a Christian Pastor), but the Bottom line is Jesus claims to be the only way to God-so He is the only way to escape Hell. We can never live at peace because man is wicked at his core. This sometimes show itself through "religious" people but also through atheists as well. Christianity acknowledges the world around it as I talked about in the previous post. It talks about the sinfulness of man the futility of life and the various false religions of the world. The book of Proverbs gives wonderful and practical advice for anyone on how to live in the world. According to the bible anyone who does not have Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior does go to hell, and that none are without excuse. So, there are no innocents here, we all deserve to burn, and the fact that God saves some people when all deserve to die is amazing enough in itself.

[CalcioFreak]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by supersize77
So, there are no innocents here, we all deserve to burn, and the fact that God saves some people when all deserve to die is amazing enough in itself.

Oh my god, what a depressing way to spend your life. What kind of belief do you have where your god, who has created everything, has created things that 'deserve' to burn. What a colossal waste of time and energy that would be. I would think anything that wielded that sort of power would be well beyond the pettiness of judgement, that's a human trait, as so many have demonstrated on this thread. I mean that is so ridiculous, how could anyone subscribe to such a fear based, anachronistic view of existence.

[Jcfreak_02]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CalcioFreak

Originally posted by supersize77
So, there are no innocents here, we all deserve to burn, and the fact that God saves some people when all deserve to die is amazing enough in itself.

Oh my god, what a depressing way to spend your life. What kind of belief do you have where your god, who has created everything, has created things that 'deserve' to burn. What a colossal waste of time and energy that would be. I would think anything that wielded that sort of power would be well beyond the pettiness of judgement, that's a human trait, as so many have demonstrated on this thread. I mean that is so ridiculous, how could anyone subscribe to such a fear based, anachronistic view of existence.

It is not depressing for us, we have been forgiven and are not going to Hell. When God created us he gave us free will. We have used that free will to accept him or reject him. During the course of our free exercise of free will, everyone has sinned. God can have no part of sin without someone paying the price. Christ paid the price, all we need to do is accept that. It is not fear based. I am greatful that my life has been saved, would you be greatful if someone saved your life?

[Paul R. Del Vec]

Please!
Religion is for codependent people and bible thumpers need to consider that scripture is verbal history. meaning....lets say 12 people see a ufo land and talk to the aliens. Then they tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and then someone writes it down. Yo this is the word of WHO.

As far as your dick. Its yours man put it wherever you want to. Put it in the dirt and you can be a homoteran.

[John H.]

Originally posted by CalcioFreak
'The beauty of religious mania is that is has the power to explain everything. Once God is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window.'
-Stephen King-

Hi Calcio. Yes, a "mania" - for sure. So much has been written and said in a religious way and so much in the same breath says very little. Very little really has anything to do with what God or Christ REALLY said or want. To cover up a religion's unability to answer we are to just "believe" and "accept". I understand that there are times when this is what we will all do anyway for certain reasons BUT never stop looking for actual truth. Never just accept for accepting. A REAL religion will always welcome beign questioned and grilled and put on the"hot spot". Any real religion will also want to truly find truth and honesty and not just put forth ideas and thoughts and feelings and demand others just accept. God gave each of us a brain and I would think He expects us all to use it and to question everything - including Him. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

Originally posted by CalcioFreak
'I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct for revenge for which no expedient is sufficiently poisonous, secret, subterranean, petty -- I call it the one mortal blemish of mankind.'
-Friedrich Nietzche-

Hi Calcio. Religion and politics have always been strange "bedfellows". Remember that it was the religious zealots and the politicians that wanted Christ dead. They put Him to death. Religion and politics MUST ALWAYS be questioned and watched very closely. This saying applies: "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal viligence. Which condition, if he break, servitude is the consequence for his crime and the punishment of his guilt" - John Philpot Curran (Speech Upon the Right of Election, 1790).

[SHpanda]

Originally posted by John H.
Hi Sqweezer. AIDS has NEVER BEEN JUST a Homosexual disease - NEVER. You need to do some medical research here to find out for yourself. Take Care, John H.

AIDS is a disease that was originally in monkeys. people like John H. are how it got sexually transmitted from monkeys to humans.

[phreak]

Originally posted by SHpanda
AIDS is a disease that was originally in monkeys. people like John H. are how it got sexually transmitted from monkeys to humans.

Are you suggesting John H ate a monkey? 'Cause that's how it all started.

[John H.]

Originally posted by supersize77
John H.,

Seems you're not to found of religion, and I'm assuming this includes Christianity. If you do not start with the presuposition that the Bible is true or any other religious book or creed, where do you get answers? You said something about nature-Is that where we find the answers to life? By the way I do agree that all religions besides Christianity have caused way more harm than good in my opinion because I berlieve they are false and misleading no matter how good their moral standards may be.

Hi Super. I get my "answers" and my "questions" from living life. I have a very open mind and a real willingness to know truth. I learn from everywhere and everyone and everything. The country where I live (Pennsylvania) shows me things every day. I am constantly SEEING things around me. People, Nature and all She has to offer, small things and things larger. I think a lot even when I am working - and probably sleeping too. I ask til the "cows come home" of everyone and everything. I keep looking til I find some kind of answer and never just accept anything. Learning is lifelong and also a lot of fun. It is a challenge. When you start "realizing" and "seeing" what is true especially after a long journey in seach of that truth, you are elated. But you still question. The beauty of learning is that there is always something more to know. The more you know (meaning anyone here) the more you think you DO NOT know. I have found in my living that like politics, religion is very suspicious and needs to be very closely watched and questioned. The second you are discouraged from this questioning and this observing I see a "red flag" go up - it is a warning sign to me that something needs more watching and more closely because not all is right. I do not want to always sound "suspicious" but I believe religion and politics DESERVE that observation because of their way of "conducting business" and their "everyday operations". Yes, some good is done in religion, but far too much bad and history has and does show this to be absolutely true. And the present does not change a thing. They are still "at it". Don't believe me? LOOK real close, question real hard and see for yourself. If religion and politics have a bad name it IS because they EARNED that reputation and still do. Any religion that promotes hate, damning others, killing of others, just "accepting" without question, discouraging others from questioning, etc. earns suspicion at the very least... Studying and learning from the history of any religion is very important to understand what they have in mind and where they are coming from and what they have done and will do. It also is key to what they are continuing to do and what they may be "up to". The Bible has some good and purpose but also has some bad and it does contradict itself in many areas. It was written by over 40 different people with over 40 different points of view over a long period of time. It is a collection of literature (essays, poems, prose, etc.). It did not exist at the Time of Christ and not for a long time after Christ. God did not write it, Christ did not write it. Men did. Mortals, with their strengths and failings. The Bible is just one item of one religion. There are thousands of religions in this world. Each have their own beliefs and religious articles and books they "go by". I believe religion was meant to be very simple and uncomplicated. How you live your life each day and how you treat others is paramount. When you do your very best each and every day or as nearly as possible, I believe after time, you begin you know in your heart and soul truth. "Religion" is formed to fill a void in people - it ATTEMPTS to answer questions people have about life and living. I believe the DANGER IN RELIGION is when they see the need to control others and do that to the point of even causing people harm and/or death. Many religions have a hell of a lot to account for. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

Originally posted by supersize77
Agreed. God has already passed judgment on them by saying that homosexuality is a sin. Myself and other Christians merely pass this information on to others because we believe it to be true. Truth be told, we ALL have fallen short of God's standard of perfection: straight, gay, everyone. The difference is that once a person recieves Christ as Savior they have the ability to no longer continue in a particular sin nor will they.Even though they will still commit sins from time to time they will have the ability to struggle against sin. As Christians we are no longer a slave to the flesh or our natural impulses, and are continually being formed into the image of Christ (which will only be complete after death).

Hi Super. God never said one word, Christ never said one word - ever - about it being wrong to love whether it be one Man loving another Man, one Woman loving another Woman, or one Man loving a Woman. LOVE ONE ANOTHER is all that was said - period. Certainly if it was wrong They had plenty of opportunity to say so and They NEVER DID. They did have a lot of other things to say however about other things. LOVING someone, Gender DOES NOT MATTER, is paramount. Never use others for any reason. Certainly it is does not feel good and certainly you (meaning anyone here) yourself would not want to be used. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving another as long as they are of age and ability of consent. Gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. To procreate, as far as we all know, requires one Man and one Woman. Procreation is not the only reason for physical intimacy with another - Man or Woman, etc. If we all truly loved each other (regardless of Gender) this would be a much better and happier world. To me if there are any "commandments" this one would be number one and probably would not require any additional if people really loved sincerely and honestly. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CalcioFreak

Originally posted by supersize77
So, there are no innocents here, we all deserve to burn, and the fact that God saves some people when all deserve to die is amazing enough in itself.

Oh my god, what a depressing way to spend your life. What kind of belief do you have where your god, who has created everything, has created things that 'deserve' to burn. What a colossal waste of time and energy that would be. I would think anything that wielded that sort of power would be well beyond the pettiness of judgement, that's a human trait, as so many have demonstrated on this thread. I mean that is so ridiculous, how could anyone subscribe to such a fear based, anachronistic view of existence.

Hi Calcio. Religions thrive on putting fear in others. That's one of their methods of controlling others. Too often religion is ONLY about money, position and power. They want the money, they want the position of being "totally in charge and control" and have the "power" that goes along with that position. It IS a HORRIBLE way to "live" and experience life as you mention. If I had the power, I would IMMEDIATELY wipe off the face of the earth child abuse in ANY form, religion and politics. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

Originally posted by Paul R. Del Vec
Please!
Religion is for codependent people and bible thumpers need to consider that scripture is verbal history. meaning....lets say 12 people see a ufo land and talk to the aliens. Then they tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and their kids tell their kids and then someone writes it down. Yo this is the word of WHO.

As far as your dick. Its yours man put it wherever you want to. Put it in the dirt and you can be a homoteran.

Hi Paul. Yes. You are right. People are terrified of the unknown. The more ignorant a person is the more dependent they are on someone else or something else to "shore them up", to give them "comfort". I find comfort and knowledge in the world around me, especially the Natural world as it is a very good teacher and that is most likely how our early ancestors learned too. Animals learn from us and we learn from them. As well as the plants, sky, you name it. Stupidity comes from those who are ignorant and unwilling to learn. Many people put themselves into a position of being stupid not just ignorant. LOVING someone, NO MATTER the Gender, is paramount. Being honest in that love. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

Originally posted by Enoptix
Homosexualitiy seems to be a popular subject in this part of the forums.. (largely in part of John H.'s posts).. lol.. and then it turns into this huge flame fest and blah blah blah...

Yea.. well I wanna say some things about it... I have some points...

1) People do not choose to be gay. Wouldn't it make sense to you that in todays society NO ONE would be gay if they had the choice? Seeing as how gay people are treated, I would think not. Your born with preferences and tendencies. Straight people dont just decide one day that their gonna wanna **** women do they? NO! You do what ever feels natural. Well, if your born with a sexual drive towards men, your gonna wanna **** men. It's simple. You can't be "raised" to be gay. It's just preference like anything else (fav color, fav kinda car, etc...)

2) God and homosexuality... I really don't get the bible and stuff... I thought god loved everyone.. does he not? How can he send someone to hell for being gay if he made them that way? I could understand someone that killed someone going to hell, but not being gay. Once again, You don't choose to be gay...

I can truely understand people hating gay people. It's just like racism and etc etc... It's just that people get scared of what they aren't used to or know about... but the thing about homosexuality is that EVERYONE internally understands it. It's just that people can't possibly think it's that simple. All it is, is a preference.. nothing less or more. It's either I like girls, boys, or both. It's all the same emotion and stuff... just different physically...

I don't get why people try to make things so complicated.. Sex is sex whether it's a girl or boy... reproduction is a whole diff story...

oh as for me... I consider myself label free, but if you were gonna label me I would be bisexual. I don't act gay at all, and no one would ever guess that I enjoy men AND women... I look at it as a heightened state of being... I feel like I understand more than just "straight" or just "gay" people...

o and one more thing... this message wasn't a lecture for just people who are "straight" but for "gay" people too. I think gays are just as guilty as straights are about not understanding and **** like that.

....yea just my 2 cents. Peace!

Hi Enoptix. Please read this book: FORBIDDEN FRIENDSHIPS, by Michael Rocke (Oxford University Press) - and - BIOLOGICAL EXUBERANCE, by Bruce Bagemihl (St. Martin's Press). Tell me what you think after you read them. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

I am not in a war of word with others. I like to get to the basics which are: 1) God Himself NEVER said one word ever. 2) Christ Himself NEVER said one word ever. If wanting to love a Man by another Man (for example) was wrong God and Christ both would have said so and They NEVER did. They need no one to speak for Them. They need no one to put words into Their mouths. 3)Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality do exist in Nature and the Natural World and always have. 4) Never use someone. 5) LOVE them honestly. 6) As long as both are of age and ability of consent, and they are honest and sincere, it is not wrong, ever. Take Care, John H.

[Jcfreak_02]

Originally posted by John H.
I am not in a war of word with others. I like to get to the basics which are: 1) God Himself NEVER said one word ever. 2) Christ Himself NEVER said one word ever. If wanting to love a Man by another Man (for example) was wrong God and Christ both would have said so and They NEVER did. They need no one to speak for Them. They need no one to put words into Their mouths. 3)Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality do exist in Nature and the Natural World and always have. 4) Never use someone. 5) LOVE them honestly. 6) As long as both are of age and ability of consent, and they are honest and sincere, it is not wrong, ever. Take Care, John H.

so nice to know what is right and wrong according to John H.
Points I would like to make.
1) John H has not read the Bible, if he has it hasn't been any edition I have heard of. 2) Christ didn't come to say do this and do that, he came to give a way out of sin. 3) Bi and Homosexuality do not survive in nature. 4) It is nice to believe we are better than animals.

[John H.]

Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
so nice to know what is right and wrong according to John H.
Points I would like to make.
1) John H has not read the Bible, if he has it hasn't been any edition I have heard of. 2) Christ didn't come to say do this and do that, he came to give a way out of sin. 3) Bi and Homosexuality do not survive in nature. 4) It is nice to believe we are better than animals.

Hi JC. Not one word of what I said is false. 1) I am familiar with the Bible. And I am aware there are many versions and interpretations of it. 2) Christ made statements about a lot of things. He DID NOT say that one Man was not allowed to love another Man. He did say to Love One Another. 3) BiSexuality and Homosexuality are IN Nature and the Natural World and do "survive". As to these being a way or manner of procreation, no as far as I know and anyone else that I have heard of, you must have one male and one female to procreate IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM but NOT SO in the Plant Kingdom - Bisexuality, for example, is most definitely a way of procreation among plants. Plants can also be Asexual. 4) We, human beings, are a part of the animal kingdom. But I would disagree with you that "...we are better than animals." I believe animals sometimes are better than many human beings I've come across. I am sure others would agree with me on that one too. Take Care, John H.

[John H.]

When having this discussion please keep in mind that the Jewish people have never really had a homeland of their own and that they have always been rejected by others throughout the world. I am not passing judgement on them or anyone else here, just saying what has happened throughout history. They have always been fighting wars with someone else (usually with a religious reason). The prohibition of Homosexuality that some like to refer to, (the word was not even "invented" until around 1889 and not really used until after World War II), in the Old Testament (which is nothing more than the old Jewish Law books) , for example, comes from the fact that because of all the fighting they were involved in they required males to fight these wars and as a consequence of Men loving other Men not enough Males were being made to fight these wars so they could win. This is the real reason for the prohibition of Men loving other Men. They NEEDED males to be born to fight and that was not happening at a rate that would replenish the supply as Men were killed off in battle. BiSexuality and Homosexuality have ALWAYS existed EVERYWHERE among human beings and in the Natural World and Nature. And so has Heterosexuality. There is a valid and proper reason for all three. Take Care, John H.

[CalcioFreak]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jcfreak_02 3) Bi and Homosexuality do not survive in nature.

Neither would the inbred offspring of the only two people on the planet.
Did you ever notice how in Genesis 3 God says that Eve will be the mother of all mankind? Then in Genesis 4 we get Cain and Abel, Adam and Eve's boys. Then Cain moves east of Eden after he whacks his brother and his wife bears children...his wife? How the hell did that happen? Just a little blip in the first book of the bible, pay it no mind.

[Jcfreak_02]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CalcioFreak

[i]Originally posted by Jcfreak_02 3) Bi and Homosexuality do not survive in nature.

Neither would the inbred offspring of the only two people on the planet.
Did you ever notice how in Genesis 3 God says that Eve will be the mother of all mankind? Then in Genesis 4 we get Cain and Abel, Adam and Eve's boys. Then Cain moves east of Eden after he whacks his brother and his wife bears children...his wife? How the hell did that happen? Just a little blip in the first book of the bible, pay it no mind.

I have yet to find that answer, I'll post it when I do. I do not think Genesis was meant to answer questions, just say how it was. It follows the life of the Jews, if it was not important concerning the Jews, then it was probobly not mentioned.