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  1. #1
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    Overloading at 120%?

    I have this cycle saved as one of my favs in my computer and Ive always wondered how you would overload at 120% of your max. Would you use equipment? Im curious. This seems like it would be very time consuming considering you would need a crew.

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    605lbs. reverse band squat.
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    BackFlipMasta PitzaPapa's Avatar
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    my guess is they are walkouts for squats and unracking for bench
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    Originally Posted by PitzaPapa View Post
    my guess is they are walkouts for squats and unracking for bench
    Word. I see overloading as ^, negatives as to what I think you are thinking.
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    Originally Posted by PitzaPapa View Post
    my guess is they are walkouts for squats and unracking for bench
    This. Squat walk it out and stand with it for a few seconds

    Bench, get a liftoff and hold the weight in place for a few seconds

    It works pretty well but I don't know about every week...
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    Registered User NWB's Avatar
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    Hanging bands. If for example I squat 1000lbs, I can rig bands from the top of the rack to where I put 1200lbs on the bar, this is what I unrack/walk out. The bands can take off 300lbs making 900lbs bar weight "in the hole". This overloads me with the 120% and puts me at 90% in the hole which is very doable. Works for raw or geared lifters. 120% seems high to me though and I am a gear whore who uses a monolift for squatting.
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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    This. Squat walk it out and stand with it for a few seconds

    Bench, get a liftoff and hold the weight in place for a few seconds

    It works pretty well but I don't know about every week...
    ^^^This exactly...

    It's a good program. A lot like the 9 week Russian routine but with the deadlifts spaced out a little more and some slight differences in reps and sets.

    I got through about 6 weeks of it. It was the first program that I tried...and I did stupid stuff like maxing out too often(supposed to wait until the end) and then re adjusting my % off of new maxes...yeah, I won't do that again. lol
    I'd like to give that program another try sometime .

    btw...here's some advice from the forums at Dr.Squat.com...

    http://drsquat.com/content/main/trai...s-powerlifters

    The next one I wish I had read before I started it.

    http://drsquat.com/content/overloads-how-long

    ...and think there are a couple of calculators for this program here, about 1/2 way down the page.

    http://joeskopec.com/programs.html
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=152596453

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    Registered User NWB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    This. Squat walk it out and stand with it for a few seconds

    Bench, get a liftoff and hold the weight in place for a few seconds

    It works pretty well but I don't know about every week...
    This does about nothing for the CNS...do the full rep with the bands. Then again, what does BIG IRON GYM know.
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    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    This does about nothing for the CNS...do the full rep with the bands. Then again, what does BIG IRON GYM know.
    You're an idiot. Whether or not it works the CNS, it doesn't say "reverse bands" it says overloading...both common terms in the world of PL, and you don't seem to know the definition of either.
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    Registered User NWB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Doollas View Post
    You're an idiot. Whether or not it works the CNS, it doesn't say "reverse bands" it says overloading...both common terms in the world of PL, and you don't seem to know the definition of either.
    Yes, I am an idiot. If you think their is only one way to overload you are the fool. You can see what I produce up in the video section.

    Good luck on what you think is powerlifting.
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    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    This does about nothing for the CNS...do the full rep with the bands. Then again, what does BIG IRON GYM know.
    I respect where you're coming from man, on the other hand this program was written by Fred Hatfield before the usage of bands and chains was as prominent in powerlifting as it is today. I am pretty sure he intended the overloads to be performed in the way I described them.

    I do not know which method is better; I was merely interpreting the program for the OP as it was written. If you look at the link in the OP, you will most likely agree with me.
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    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    Yes, I am an idiot. If you think their is only one way to overload you are the fool. You can see what I produce up in the video section.

    Good luck on what you think is powerlifting.
    I'm certainly not saying that using reverse bands doesn't overload part of a movement, but in the context of that program you are incorrect (and using the specific term "overload" in general means walkouts and lift-offs). Read about the program if you don't believe me.
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  12. #12
    Registered User NWB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    I respect where you're coming from man, on the other hand this program was written by Fred Hatfield before the usage of bands and chains was as prominent in powerlifting as it is today. I am pretty sure he intended the overloads to be performed in the way I described them.

    I do not know which method is better; I was merely interpreting the program for the OP as it was written. If you look at the link in the OP, you will most likely agree with me.
    Yes, absolutely Fred Hatfield meant to do static holds (which is what he calls them, not sure if someone changed his wording). Look at the powerlifters of "old" and their programs...no wonder why it took them a lifetime to get to where they got to. Why is it young to mid 20 year olds can accomplish the same feat(or surpass it in some cases) in less time. Learn from the past and adapt. The worst thing is thinking you know everything. We are constantly changing how we do something to get stronger in my gym. These are the guys you want to learn from. They live the changing program and reap the benefits of it. My post should have read "do hanging bands in lieu of the "overload"" to clarify my intentions. As for the definitions, those are always up to interpretation. Who really cares in my book. I can find one gym says a JM press is this and another who says it is that. Whatever, I really do not care. We adapt it to what we need in our gym. As for the static holds, why not actually descend with the weight feeling heavy to you? Builds strength, CNS is getting ramped up, and confidence will get really high, trust me on this.

    Isokenetics will produce a better result than isometric contraction almost in everybody. I am still trying to think of someone who trains linear periodization and is in the top 20 all time raw or geared. Cant think of any as I look at the list, but maybe someone does and I do not know. I tell everyone to give conjugate periodization a try for 6 months. You will have more fun I predict and make bigger and faster gains IMHO. Hell, you will probably start seeing PR's after 5 weeks. It works for raw or geared lifters. Stan Efferding is pretty good raw (understatement) and he trains with us when he is home.

    If anyone wants help in setting up a program, brad@northwestbarbell.com I will do it for free and if you dont like it and it doesn't work, let the BB.com forum know...haha.
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  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Ka0s;561331151]I respect where you're coming from man, on the other hand this program was written by Fred Hatfield before the usage of bands and chains was as prominent in powerlifting as it is today. QUOTE]

    For the record, chains were prominent in eastern Europe in the '30s I believe. Still trying to look up when it hit mainstream there. It's been awhile though. Whole reason Louie Simmons went over there in the '70's and '80's was to see how they were training since they were kicking our butts. They were using bands also but not like how some gyms do today in the US. Hatfield went over to the then USSR in '83 I believe. He hated using chains until this time. He has since changed his thinking on them also. Definitely was one of the greats of old.

    As for in the USA, bands chains probably become prominent late 1990's early 2000's. Depends on definition of prominent though. Since then totals have risen more in 10 years percentage or pure weight then any other 10 year period in history. I will let the nay-sayers do the math on it.
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    Originally Posted by NWB View Post

    As for in the USA, bands chains probably become prominent late 1990's early 2000's. Depends on definition of prominent though. Since then totals have risen more in 10 years percentage or pure weight then any other 10 year period in history. I will let the nay-sayers do the math on it.
    Not going to get into this but hopefully someone else will.
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    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    Yes, absolutely Fred Hatfield meant to do static holds (which is what he calls them, not sure if someone changed his wording). Look at the powerlifters of "old" and their programs...no wonder why it took them a lifetime to get to where they got to. Why is it young to mid 20 year olds can accomplish the same feat(or surpass it in some cases) in less time. Learn from the past and adapt. The worst thing is thinking you know everything. We are constantly changing how we do something to get stronger in my gym. These are the guys you want to learn from. They live the changing program and reap the benefits of it. My post should have read "do hanging bands in lieu of the "overload"" to clarify my intentions. As for the definitions, those are always up to interpretation. Who really cares in my book. I can find one gym says a JM press is this and another who says it is that. Whatever, I really do not care. We adapt it to what we need in our gym. As for the static holds, why not actually descend with the weight feeling heavy to you? Builds strength, CNS is getting ramped up, and confidence will get really high, trust me on this.

    Isokenetics will produce a better result than isometric contraction almost in everybody. I am still trying to think of someone who trains linear periodization and is in the top 20 all time raw or geared. Cant think of any as I look at the list, but maybe someone does and I do not know. I tell everyone to give conjugate periodization a try for 6 months. You will have more fun I predict and make bigger and faster gains IMHO. Hell, you will probably start seeing PR's after 5 weeks. It works for raw or geared lifters. Stan Efferding is pretty good raw (understatement) and he trains with us when he is home.

    If anyone wants help in setting up a program, brad@northwestbarbell.com I will do it for free and if you dont like it and it doesn't work, let the BB.com forum know...haha.

    As for this, I'm willing to bet that the average topic starter even in this section trains at a commercial gym or at home, and thus doesn't have access to many of the tools that those who train at a powerlifting gym can use. For many, reverse band overloads are not really an option.

    Actually, looking at the OP's sig he may have the equipment to utilize your method. Assumed he was a raw lifter.
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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    Not going to get into this but hopefully someone else will.
    Pretty sure I can guess where you do not want to go with this one. I dare say this is across ALL federations, not the 'all time' totals. Give me something to do tonight, I will look it up across the major feds for raw and geared as I am curious now. I will even research what type of training method each used. This will take me some time though to get that info.
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    Originally Posted by Ka0s View Post
    As for this, I'm willing to bet that the average topic starter even in this section trains at a commercial gym or at home, and thus doesn't have access to many of the tools that those who train at a powerlifting gym can use. For many, reverse band overloads are not really an option
    Concur many train in commercial gym/home. If a power rack exists at home, bands are easy. I started out in a commercial. I drug chains, used bands there. No issues. This will obviously be gym specific. All I can suggest is try it. Bands take little to no time to set up/tear down and do not make much noise. Best case, you find some like minded lifters and start your own little garage gym somewhere. Worst case, they ask you not to use them, so you are back to where you were anyway. I guess worst case is they kick you out, which is for the better anyways as gyms are a dime a dozen. What a powerlifter needs is very little so most gyms will work anyways.
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    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    The worst thing is thinking you know everything.
    I didn't want to give the impression I thought this, I'm an intermediate and am learning every day. I came off as pretty harsh in my reply to you...bad drive home lol...feeling much more civil after setting a few PR's today.

    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    My post should have read "do hanging bands in lieu of the "overload"" to clarify my intentions. As for the definitions, those are always up to interpretation. Who really cares in my book. As for the static holds, why not actually descend with the weight feeling heavy to you? Builds strength, CNS is getting ramped up, and confidence will get really high, trust me on this.
    I was just saying THIS program was talking about static holds. Agreed on the definitions. When I was doing a WS-template I used chains and bands...it's weird for me, it makes the weight seem lighter at the top, but my chains were only like 50 lbs.

    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    Isokenetics will produce a better result than isometric contraction almost in everybody. I am still trying to think of someone who trains linear periodization and is in the top 20 all time raw or geared. Cant think of any as I look at the list, but maybe someone does and I do not know. I tell everyone to give conjugate periodization a try for 6 months. You will have more fun I predict and make bigger and faster gains IMHO. Hell, you will probably start seeing PR's after 5 weeks.
    I think it's hard to say someone got where they are doing one thing or another...a given powerlifter might try multiple training styles before they get elite. I love me some conjugate periodization...doing RTS now and I love it. It's like WS but has taught me a lot more about myself just in a short time. I think 5 weeks isn't giving it enough credit, I think one should be setting PR's every week!

    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    Stuff about chains.
    There's an article that explains the story more in depth, but I think I deleted it from my bookmarks...I'm thinking it was on anabolic minds and discussed Louie's inclusion of chains/bands, but didn't go back as far as the 30's, I'd be very interested to get a real history on them.

    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    Pretty sure I can guess where you do not want to go with this one.
    Cuz it will get debated like a sensitive social issue with no end in sight.

    Originally Posted by NWB View Post
    Stuff about gyms
    Everytime I walk in the gym with my chains I feel like I'm walking in with a dunce cap or something...get the weirdest looks. I feel like the dude that visits Scrooge or something. Luckily the city I live in is full of weak PhD's that wouldn't think to approach me so no one really says **** to me about using chains, bands, chalk, etc etc etc.
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    Originally Posted by Doollas View Post
    I think it's hard to say someone got where they are doing one thing or another...a given powerlifter might try multiple training styles before they get elite. I love me some conjugate periodization...doing RTS now and I love it. It's like WS but has taught me a lot more about myself just in a short time. I think 5 weeks isn't giving it enough credit, I think one should be setting PR's every week!
    The five weeks was just to get some baselines on excercises. Absolutely PR's need to be set every week after that! We strictly train conjugate. Not saying its the best, but my lifters have had great success with it.

    Justin Randal - 242. 875-675-600-2150. First geared meet. Been powerlifting about 6 months.

    Ricky Lahourcade - 275 950-700-750-2350 Training 1.5 years or so. Was doing linear periodization when he came to NWB back in April. Squat went up 150lbs, bench up 125lbs, dead is raw. He had been stalled for about 6 months he says when he came.

    Big Mike - 308 Never been in a shirt and just hit 605 x 2 to a 1Brd. Been powerlifting 4 weeks with NWB...about a month prior to that. I will have him over 700lbs in 8 weeks. This kid is going to go big I predict. Has 500 raw bench now (touch and go) and no one has ever coached him.

    Josh Turney - 242 Josh has been training about 2 years linear also. Terrible lifter. Came with a 500-425-500-1450 I think. Hit 635 squat today to parallel, pulls 600 raw now, and benched 525 in a meet a few weeks ago. Been with NWB since April also.

    Chad Dresden - 242 Raw guy converting to gear. Been training in PL for only 3 months..all with NWB. Raw went 475-400-575-1450 in first meet a few weeks ago.

    ALL can now squat 500 raw to competition depth for squat, bench 400 raw with pause (Josh probably has to do touch and go), and all can pull 600 raw conventional AND sumo. Not bragging. Not what this was for. Just think if applied correctly, anyone can make great gains using the conjugate method. Could they have made these gains on another program? Who is to say, but if you ask any of them, they will tell you no I would bet.

    In the end, I just want people to hit PR's. That is the reason these guys like coming to the gym. I push them and they push each other. I dont sugar coat when they are ****ing up or off either. They get called out on it.

    I enjoy the research behind getting stronger. Conjugate works raw or geared...just needs to be tweaked a little for either one. In the beginning, a lifter can do anything and make gains though. The goal is to never plateau. Always make gains. We haven't yet and the next meet doesn't look like we will be either. We are doing a few more meets next year so we will really see at the end of next year. I think the conjugate method really plays a part in this goal of never plateau'ing though.

    Either way, glad to hear you hit some PR's today. What it is all about!

    *must note, we do not train raw. Chad was an exception. Geared lifting can produce gains in raw numbers also I think. Does for us anyways.
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