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  1. #6001
    Registered User rpaul11's Avatar
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    3 plates x3 is some great work Bill. And even on the stalled chins...thats some good tonage you're getting there.

    Solid work as usual.
    "Some people are like Slinkies. They're not really good for anything but they sure bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs."



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  2. #6002
    Mod Squad VoxExMachina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Thanks, MH. Now that the ice has been broken, I can concentrate on doing work.

    It's always interesting to me how adding such a small percentage of weight to the bar can be so costly, rep-wise. Last week--310x5; this week--315x3.

    It's gotta be mostly mental; only five pounds traded for 2 reps?
    I'm with you, Bill. A couple percent increase can't make that much difference. I'd chalk it up to actually being slightly less energetic this week, the mental aspect of knowing there's more weight on the bar, etc. That said, I guess there's always the point where you're in "straw that broke the camel's back" mode.

    But as you say, the ice is broken so now the reps can flow....



    On that subject, I kind of like to work "heavy squats" with the last three sets being at the same weight. IE:

    135 x 10 w/u
    185 x 8 w/u
    225 x 5
    260 x 5
    295 x 5
    295 x 5
    295 x 5

    The first set at the top weight usually isn't a major struggle. So when the next increase comes, I can have high confidence that I'll get that first heavy set "under my belt" without a problem. Mentally, that lends confidence to the last two sets (now that I know I can handle the weight, I can focus on doing work). Through trial and error, I've found this setup helps me stay on my progression a bit easier.

    (After the last heavy set I'll usually drop to around 80% of my top set weight and crank out a couple of 10-12 rep sets.)
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  3. #6003
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Monday's training, bumped from the previous page:



    Had a good session today. Wasn't able to move everything forward, but was still able to make some progress. Today's training was:

    Barbell Squat
    bar x15 W/U
    95x10 W/U
    135x5
    185x5
    225x5
    265x5
    315x3






    Chinup
    bw x5 W/U
    bw x5 W/U
    bw +35x3 W/U
    bw +70x5
    bw +70x4
    bw +70x4





    Smith Machine Seated Press
    95x8 W/U
    125x3 W/U
    155x4
    155x3
    155x3





    Completed this session in 70 minutes. Bumped the weight on Squats, and was able to get 3 good reps. Might have managed a 4th, but didn't want to struggle to get it. I'll wait 'til next week, and then go for it.

    Chins have stalled. This was my 3rd attempt to move them forward, and was unable to do so. I'll reset the weight down by 10% next week, and start the progression over again.

    Picked up a rep on Seated Presses. As with Squats, I may have been able to get an extra on the 2nd set, but was not willing to struggle in order to do so. I'll go after it again next week.

    Overall, a good session. I don't mind the reset on the Chins; such occurrences are part and parcel to strength work. My effort was good, and that's what's most important to me.

    I'll rest tomorrow, and then work on Lunges, Rows, and Inclines on Friday.





    Post meal was a grilled chicken breast, a baked potato with butter, a bowl of fresh green beans (don't know where they were shipped in from, but they were really good), and a glass of milk.

    No brain, no gain.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  4. #6004
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rpaul11 View Post
    3 plates x3 is some great work Bill. And even on the stalled chins...thats some good tonage you're getting there.

    Solid work as usual.
    Thanks, Rich. I was pleased with my level of effort yesterday, and feel like I did the best I could.

    What I'm dealing with now is the knowledge that progress is inevitably going to slow a bit, while at the same time trying to balance that with trying not to let it become a self-fulfilling prophesy. This sport is so much more mental than physical. For guys like myself, who aren't elite athletes or genetically-gifted individuals, the difference between getting a rep and missing it are almost always in the head, and not in the muscles.












    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    I'm with you, Bill. A couple percent increase can't make that much difference. I'd chalk it up to actually being slightly less energetic this week, the mental aspect of knowing there's more weight on the bar, etc. That said, I guess there's always the point where you're in "straw that broke the camel's back" mode.

    But as you say, the ice is broken so now the reps can flow....
    I agree on all counts. The challenge has been offered by the loaded bar.


    On that subject, I kind of like to work "heavy squats" with the last three sets being at the same weight. IE:

    135 x 10 w/u
    185 x 8 w/u
    225 x 5
    260 x 5
    295 x 5
    295 x 5
    295 x 5

    The first set at the top weight usually isn't a major struggle. So when the next increase comes, I can have high confidence that I'll get that first heavy set "under my belt" without a problem. Mentally, that lends confidence to the last two sets (now that I know I can handle the weight, I can focus on doing work). Through trial and error, I've found this setup helps me stay on my progression a bit easier.

    (After the last heavy set I'll usually drop to around 80% of my top set weight and crank out a couple of 10-12 rep sets.)
    I've done Squat sets just like that in the past--multiple top sets/reps at the same weight. They've worked well for me as long as I mind my recovery. For me, they take a bit more mental effort than just ramping up to one heavy set.

    I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards doing that exact thing ^^^^ when I get to a stall as far as trying to add weight to the bar. IIRC, last year I tapped out at 325x2, and would like to get to 325x5 this time around. If I can manage to get there, I'd probably benefit more by doing 1 or 2 extra sets at that same weight rather than simply trying to add more weight to the bar and trying to get a rep or two. I'm not all that interested in trying to get to a (for me) big number with Squats; I've never been a big-weight Squatter anyway, even in my 'best' day, so I don't see the sense in trying to do it now.
    No brain, no gain.

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  5. #6005
    Gotta love the internet wedjim's Avatar
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    Nice work there Bill, solid 315 for reps.
    I want to go over the 3 bills mark bad, but i'll be patient and keep seeing it done here for a few more weeks for now. Someone once said, no brain, no gain.
    "Where you are now is not important, what matters is where you are headed".

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  6. #6006
    Built Upon Struggle FlaIronMind's Avatar
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    Excellent effort and work yesterday Bill. Well done sir.
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  7. #6007
    Former Bench Jockey FastCatChamp's Avatar
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    Great work Bill.

    Funny that I have done what Vox does....that is on back day I do my heavier sets and then drop down the weight and mash 10 reps on a final set with perfect MMC.

    Reading your journal gives me some confidence that the approach is solid.

    Have a good rest day tomorrow
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  8. #6008
    Registered User tnthudson's Avatar
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    Nice work! I like the decision to reset at 10% lower on chins, I was wondering what to do if one stalls for any length of time, other than abandoning the exercise completely. I always figured you'd go to a similar exercise but the resetting of the weight is interesting.
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  9. #6009
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post

    Monday's training, bumped from the previous page:




    Barbell Squat
    bar x15 W/U
    95x10 W/U
    135x5
    185x5
    225x5
    265x5
    315x3


    May not have moved it forward but your form is spot on. Excellent squats Bill
    We all have our good days and our bad ones. What separates us is those who can turn a bad day into a good one...

    When your not training or running just know no matter what some place someone is doing one more set or one more mile. Stay motivated!!!


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  10. #6010
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wedjim View Post
    Nice work there Bill, solid 315 for reps.
    I want to go over the 3 bills mark bad, but i'll be patient and keep seeing it done here for a few more weeks for now. Someone once said, no brain, no gain.
    There are many different legitimate tenets in weight training, most of which can be mixed and matched to produce results. The one universal truth that governs all of them is progression. Without it, nothing else works for long.

    IMO, a measured approach to progression is the smart way to train. You're always working closely within your capacity, so injury is much less likely, and confidence is increased. The thought process is, "Hey, it's only 5 pounds more; I can handle that."









    Originally Posted by FlaIronMind View Post
    Excellent effort and work yesterday Bill. Well done sir.
    Thanks, FIM; I had a good day, and am expecting another today. I'm inching my way forward, a rep at a time.











    Originally Posted by FastCatChamp View Post
    Great work Bill.

    Funny that I have done what Vox does....that is on back day I do my heavier sets and then drop down the weight and mash 10 reps on a final set with perfect MMC.

    Reading your journal gives me some confidence that the approach is solid.
    Thanks, Gale. As long as you put in the effort, you'll continue to move forward.




    There are many different progression schemes (straight sets, pyramids, ramped sets, sets based on % of 1-rep max, etc.). They all will work, providing that the overlaying factor of steady, measured increase of weight and/or reps is followed at each session.

    As far as exactly which specific scheme is best for an individual, I couldn't say; that would probably be determined only by trial and error. Just off the top of my head I'd say that the 'best' scheme for someone is the one that the individual thinks might be best. If a trainee believes he's training on the best plan, he'll have an easier time of getting behind it and putting forth maximum effort during every workout. It's all in the mind; the "nuts and bolts" aren't going to make much difference as long as whatever plan being considered is basically sound.

    I'm rambling; time to stop.


    Have a good rest day tomorrow
    Thanks. Have a great day yourself.














    Originally Posted by tnthudson View Post
    Nice work! I like the decision to reset at 10% lower on chins, I was wondering what to do if one stalls for any length of time, other than abandoning the exercise completely. I always figured you'd go to a similar exercise but the resetting of the weight is interesting.
    Thanks, Todd. Overall, it was a good day. I was pleased to finally get away from having to load/unload all those small plates for Squats!


    The 10% reset deal is from some of Bill Starr's writings that I read way back when I was a noob. I remember at the time that I thought that some of the most brilliant ideas, when you really dig into them, always seem to be some of the simplest. His original "5X5" Strength program (since popularized as "Starr/Madcow") is an absolute masterpiece of simplicity and effectiveness. I've yet to ever come across anything else that's so universally applicable to any intermediate trainee who wants to get a lot stronger, and doesn't mind hard work to get there.





    If a reset/rerun at the progression stalls at the same point again, then I'll go to a different exercise.
    No brain, no gain.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  11. #6011
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    Bill, I couldn't get my parents off of their machine workouts, but I did introduce them to the idea of progression and showed them the little dial adjustment on the machines that adds 5 pounds of resistence so you can get "in between" weights.. they are doing the All Pro type progression with their machine workouts either getting an additional rep or adding weight to the machine each week with the heavy, medium and light days.. I think they will derrive a lot more benefit from their training now, thanks.
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  12. #6012
    Bootless Errand ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Ironwill2008 V2.0

    Had a very good session today. Everything moved up, and nothing was a strain. Gotta love it. Today's training was:

    Barbell Lunge
    bar x5 W/U
    bar x5 W/U
    95x3
    135x3
    185x3
    225x3
    255x3 no problemo




    Barbell Row
    bar x10 W/U
    135x5
    165x5
    185x5
    205x5
    235x5




    Smith Machine Incline Press
    95x8 W/U
    135x5
    165x5
    185x5
    200x5
    220x5




    Completed this session in 75 minutes. Lunges presented no problem today; they went right up. I'll add a nickel next week and keep them moving forward.

    Hit reps-across on Rows while still maintaining good MMC; I felt them only in the middle of my upper back and not at all in my arms. These will also get bumped next week.

    I got a real burst on Inclines today; while that 5th rep on the top set wasn't 'easy,' I didn't struggle with it; it went right up. I'll bump them again next week as well.

    Overall, a very productive session; all three lifts moved with no struggle or strain. Shoulders, wrists, knees and hamstrings are all good.

    I'll take a rest day tomorrow, and then get after some Deadlifts, Curls, and Flat Presses on Friday.










    Post-Workout meal was comprised of 1/4 pound of ground sirloin, a good portion of pasta salad with fresh parsley, grated cheddar cheese, and grape tomatoes, some Chobani Greek yogurt (I love this stuff), and a glass of milk.

    No brain, no gain.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  13. #6013
    GOOOO COCKS!!!!! Hibiscus09's Avatar
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    I have to get some of the Greek yogurt. I keep forgetting I want to try it out.

    Food looks yummy again.

    I'm glad you had a nice lifting session today!!

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  14. #6014
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    So far it seems like the full body program is working for you, Bill. Onward and upward!
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  15. #6015
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    moving right along. Do you feel that if by the end of your last sets on rows you are feeling some arm/bicep recruitment that you would repeat the weight again?

    Meal looks good..minus the greek yogurt
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    Impressive session today, Bill. In fact, can't even imagine getting 1/2 those numbers on lunges and rows. Been Chocbani all this month as it was taken off my meal plan. Seems I'm on eternal spread and re-charge, again.
    Inactivity Kills!!!

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    255 lunges.....235 rows......220 incline press.....

    Makes me want to go back to the gym, right NOW! Guess that is why I Stop by often.
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    Originally Posted by SteveR40 View Post
    May not have moved it forward but your form is spot on. Excellent squats Bill
    Thanks, Steve. So far, I've been able to minimize any forward lean coming up out of the hole. To me, keeping that bar on as straight a path as possible from the center of my foot all the way back up is the most important thing as far as form is concerned.











    Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
    Bill, I couldn't get my parents off of their machine workouts, but I did introduce them to the idea of progression and showed them the little dial adjustment on the machines that adds 5 pounds of resistence so you can get "in between" weights.. they are doing the All Pro type progression with their machine workouts either getting an additional rep or adding weight to the machine each week with the heavy, medium and light days.. I think they will derrive a lot more benefit from their training now, thanks.
    As long as progression is in place, results will be achieved. This is true for free weights, machines, or any form of resistance exercise.












    Originally Posted by Hibiscus09 View Post
    I have to get some of the Greek yogurt. I keep forgetting I want to try it out.

    Food looks yummy again.

    I'm glad you had a nice lifting session today!!

    Happy Wednesday!
    Thank you, Diane.

    I highly recommend Greek yogurt. It's full of all good stuff besides just it's high protein content. I'd suggest you try a few different brands; some are more tart than others, depending on your particular taste.

    I like Chobani fat-free with fruit in it, but will eat any brand that's available.











    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    So far it seems like the full body program is working for you, Bill. Onward and upward!
    I can't complain at all so far, Vox. I just can't wait to get in there every training day; my enthusiasm has never been better.











    Originally Posted by rpaul11 View Post
    Do you feel that if by the end of your last sets on rows you are feeling some arm/bicep recruitment that you would repeat the weight again?
    On that particular exercise, yes. I have a 'history' with that particular lift being difficult for me to work the target muscle, and if I don't feel every rep on the top set working my back, I have no problem staying at the current weight for the next session.

    Meal looks good..minus the greek yogurt
    Thanks!

    But why you no like Greek yogurt, Rich?













    Originally Posted by HoustonTXMuscle View Post
    Impressive session today, Bill. In fact, can't even imagine getting 1/2 those numbers on lunges and rows. Been Chocbani all this month as it was taken off my meal plan. Seems I'm on eternal spread and re-charge, again.
    Hey, thanks. Lunges went really well yesterday; sometimes they feel 'heavy,' and sometimes not. Yesterday, they weren't heavy.

    With Barbell Rows, I feel like I've turned a corner with them, and am really getting them to work my back. I'll just have to be careful about adding too much weight and having them become a bad biceps exercise.











    Originally Posted by wedjim View Post
    255 lunges.....235 rows......220 incline press.....

    Makes me want to go back to the gym, right NOW! Guess that is why I Stop by often.
    If I'm able to motivate you to a point where you can get even just one more rep, I'll figure I'm doing some good in here!
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    But why you no like Greek yogurt, Rich?
    Cant really put my finger on it Bill. I don't hate it...but I really don't care for it much. I tried the Cabbott Greek Yogurt the other day. It is new in my grocery store. Hoped I might like it better, but really didn't.
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    Originally Posted by rpaul11 View Post
    Cant really put my finger on it Bill. I don't hate it...but I really don't care for it much. I tried the Cabbott Greek Yogurt the other day. It is new in my grocery store. Hoped I might like it better, but really didn't.
    Im with this guy...ive tried them all. They are better than cottage cheese (when im burned out on CC) but i would not eat it for the flavor. Too much like flavored sour cream.
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    I have a yogurt (not necessarily Greek) EVERY day. Love yogurt!
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    Originally Posted by rpaul11 View Post
    Cant really put my finger on it Bill. I don't hate it...but I really don't care for it much. I tried the Cabbott Greek Yogurt the other day. It is new in my grocery store. Hoped I might like it better, but really didn't.
    Well, if you don't like it, you don't like it, I guess. Truth is, I didn't the first time I tried it; maybe it's an acquired taste.

    One thing I know, at least for myself; I don't ever have any digestive problems since I've been eating yogurt regularly.



    Originally Posted by Cheap5.0 View Post
    Im with this guy...ive tried them all. They are better than cottage cheese (when im burned out on CC) but i would not eat it for the flavor. Too much like flavored sour cream.
    Hey, Chris!

    As my reply to Rich, above; to each his own as far as taste in foods goes. The thing with yogurt is besides just the high protein content, all of the other good stuff that's in it.



    And LOL @ "Negging "RIP Zyzz" sigs on sight." in your sig. You'd think all those kids who idolize that guy could find a better role model to nut-hug.












    Originally Posted by Bo_Flecks View Post
    I have a yogurt (not necessarily Greek) EVERY day. Love yogurt!
    Me too, Steve. We sometimes have to stop at more than one store to get a weeks' supply.
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    3 plate squat?






    are you still on the same program? i havent really been around for the last couple of weeks
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    Originally Posted by The Shoeless Wonder View Post
    3 plate squat?

    are you still on the same program? i havent really been around for the last couple of weeks
    Finally got it up to 3 plates; now the real work begins.

    Yes, I'm still on the same routine, Shoe; Ortmayer Deadlift on Friday, and my own hybrid routine for the other lifts. So far, things are going well, and I have every expectation that they'll continue.
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    I really like what you're doing with this program Bill.

    Btw, what do you think about the Peyton Manning story? That guy just comes across as pure class, as a player and as a person. I think whoever gets him is gonna be set for deep playoff runs for the next 3 years. I'd put my money on the Dolphins, with the Chiefs and Seahawks as possibilities.
    David
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    I really like what you're doing with this program Bill.
    Thanks, David. I feel like I'm right into the heart of things now; every lift is on the edge, so every rep gained is real progress.


    Btw, what do you think about the Peyton Manning story? That guy just comes across as pure class, as a player and as a person. I think whoever gets him is gonna be set for deep playoff runs for the next 3 years. I'd put my money on the Dolphins, with the Chiefs and Seahawks as possibilities.
    I agree, he's a high-quality person, besides being a great QB.

    I read a blurb in the newspaper this AM that the Jets might be in the mix too, but I feel like all that is a moot point, at least right now.

    My gut feeling about him (and I sure hope I'm wrong here) is that he's done. AFAIK, he's yet to be medically cleared to play in the NFL again. If that's the case, he won't be able to pass a physical for any team considering signing him.

    Gotta look at the facts; he's had three surgeries for the same neck problem. There's been next to no information about his exact problem, only that repeated attempts to correct it have yet to be declared successful.

    As far as the Colts releasing him, business-wise, they had no choice; $28 mil is a chunk of dough even for an NFL team. I'd question Irsay's decision to fire Bill Polian (probably the best GM in football) more than his decision to release Manning.

    And they're going to draft Luck probably, so their QB needs for the next 10 years should be secure.
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    Yeah I remember watching Luck's old man at WVU. He was a good QB. As for Manning, doctors have already cleared him. I'm sure team doctors will want to do the same. He's actually had 4 neck surgeries, the 4th one came to light a couple weeks ago. I don't think there's any way he's done. He was saying all the right things about the Colts in the presser but deep down I'm sure he wants to show them what they lost. They said his passes had a lot of zip last week in his workouts. I kinda doubt he wants to join the Rex Ryan circus in New York LOL. I think he'll be signed within a week.
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    Peyton is one of my all time favorites. Just a class act all round. I wish him the best.

    Nice squatting Bill. I'm finally up to 3 plates with ya. Now time to add sets/ reps.

    By the way, my grip change on the pull ups from chins to overhand has cured my medial epicondyle pain and quick. Guess I'll be doing proper pull ups for a while. I'm also already matching my chin numbers pull for pull.
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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    Yeah I remember watching Luck's old man at WVU. He was a good QB. As for Manning, doctors have already cleared him. I'm sure team doctors will want to do the same. He's actually had 4 neck surgeries, the 4th one came to light a couple weeks ago. I don't think there's any way he's done. He was saying all the right things about the Colts in the presser but deep down I'm sure he wants to show them what they lost. They said his passes had a lot of zip last week in his workouts. I kinda doubt he wants to join the Rex Ryan circus in New York LOL. I think he'll be signed within a week.
    I was unaware of both a 4th surgery as well as his gaining medical clearance.

    I agree on all counts; he'll avoid the Jets, he'll be with another team in a couple of days, and whether he says so or not, will be looking to play against his old team as soon as he can.

    Andrew Luck will likely be thrown into the fire in Indy; too bad he won't get a chance to stand on the sidelines and learn the game from Manning (who I think will eventually make a great QB coach). His father, Oliver, was a very good QB at WVU, and probably would have done very well in the NFL if he'd been given more of a chance. He got stuck on the bench behind Warren Moon for most of his pro career.











    Originally Posted by pcaracer View Post
    Peyton is one of my all time favorites. Just a class act all round. I wish him the best.
    I agree; he's a good man.
    Nice squatting Bill. I'm finally up to 3 plates with ya. Now time to add sets/ reps.
    Thanks, Jeff.

    Now it's time for both of us to do work.


    By the way, my grip change on the pull ups from chins to overhand has cured my medial epicondyle pain and quick. Guess I'll be doing proper pull ups for a while. I'm also already matching my chin numbers pull for pull.
    That's great news, and one more piece of proof that experimenting will almost always show a way around a training issue.
    No brain, no gain.

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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    Hey, Chris!

    As my reply to Rich, above; to each his own as far as taste in foods goes. The thing with yogurt is besides just the high protein content, all of the other good stuff that's in it.



    And LOL @ "Negging "RIP Zyzz" sigs on sight." in your sig. You'd think all those kids who idolize that guy could find a better role model to nut-hug.
    I must make it clear, i thought Zyzz was a funny guy. He also did look good (no homo). But damn, the amount of hype, mystery and godly aura that surrounds him blows my mind. He would piss on the hard drive that stores the misc on bb.com's server if it was possible, yet these retards follow him.




    IMHO, PlyoAthlete > Zyzz


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