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  1. #1
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Red face Starting Out Workout (all core lifts)

    *edit sets/reps for a couple of the workouts after my first day testing it out*

    Here is the workout I came up with after reading up on all the pre made articles and advice from the various forums. Coincidentally, it looks quite similar to the 5x5 workout, only I chose to do 4x6 for reasons I will explain later.
    ----------------

    Stats: I am 5'8", 155lbs. Pretty small.

    I designed this workout to improve..everything. Size, strength, etc. After reading up on the advice of the many threads already out there, i made it consist solely of the 6 core lifts. (squat, bench, military press, rows, deadlift, pull/chinups).

    ------

    Day1:
    Squat 4x6
    Bench 4x6
    Chinups 4 max sets (body weight)
    Deadlift 3x5

    Day2:
    Rest-Cardio and Abs

    Day3:
    Squat 4x6
    Military Press 4x6
    Rows 4x6
    Chinups 4 max sets (body weight)

    Day 4:
    Rest-Cardio and Abs

    Day 5:
    Bench 4x6
    Deadlift 3x5
    Pullups 4x6
    Chinups 4 max sets (body weight)

    Day6:
    Rest-Cardio and Abs

    ---------

    Notes: I did the sets/reps 4x6 because after reading around, that sounds like it will work well for me. If I find out differently in the gym, I can change it. Most of the premade beginner workouts have 4 or 5 suggested reps as a start, but I think having that extra rep will allow me to use a slightly lighter load and focus more on form and proper technique so I get more out of it.

    Back (rows and deadlift) are on every day because I know for a fact my back is weak. I think it may be restricting other lifts such as bench (if that is possible) due to a weak back.

    Chinups is also on every day. That is a personal preference. Im in the military and the main factor we use to test physical fitness is how many chin/pullups one can do, plus I kept it on every day because it is the best core workout that incorporates biceps, and we all like to get bigger bis =)

    I read the 5x5 workout after I put this one together, and they look remarkable similar, so Im taking that as a good sign. Like I said before, im pretty small and this is my first 'workout program' that I plan to actually stick to and log my progress. Goal: Get stronger and bigger (no kidding -_-) Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

    Question: I have the controlled labs stack of white flood, purple wrath and green mag (along with a multivit, fish oil, and protein) How would you suggest I incorperate these into my schedule? Only on workout days? GM on off days as well? Shelve them and forget about them till later? Help appreciated =)
    Last edited by Condordagreat; 10-04-2010 at 01:10 AM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User james0566's Avatar
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    when do you plan to deload?
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  3. #3
    Registered User Sup3rB3ast's Avatar
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    Workout looks great. Looks like you did your research and came up with a good workout.

    As for the supplemets I would suggest the multi and fish oil everyday, and the protein atleast after workouts. For the other threee though I would suggest just doing whatever the instructions say to.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Red face

    Originally Posted by james0566 View Post
    when do you plan to deload?

    Aaaand here is where I show my ignorance.

    *ehem* Deload?
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  5. #5
    Registered User Sup3rB3ast's Avatar
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    You can find some info on it in the stickies, but its basically when you do a lite week to recover. Its not something you must do, although alot of individuals believe it to be necessary to fully recover and continue process.
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  6. #6
    Registered User BombDonald's Avatar
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    I think you are going to get really bored doing 4x6 for every exercise, every workout. Some higher reps would fit in well once in a while, especially for chin-ups.

    For deadlifts, I would drop the volume a bit, maybe working up to a heavy set of 3-5.

    Don't forget your arm work, and pay special attention to muscle groups that are lagging behind the rest. Just because a compound exercise uses a muscle, doesn't mean it is using the muscle efficiently.

    Supplements sound fine, use them everyday.
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    Registered User james0566's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Condordagreat View Post
    Aaaand here is where I show my ignorance.

    *ehem* Deload?
    deload is a period where you back off from some of the work load, to keep fatigue down.

    the reason i asked, is because at that volume you will need to deload in a short time.
    5x5 type routines aren't just 5x5 every other day (there are exceptions but we're not talking about that right now). you cant keep up that kind of volume for long. 5x5 routines have deload built in to the program to keep fatigue down. Such as a heavy day, light day, medium day. Ramping the sets is also a way to keep volume down.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Ok, after the first day of trying out this workout, heres what I got:

    First of all, I like it. I dont particularly feel too sore in any specific area (3 hours after workout) but I dont think that means my workout was not beneficial. Im tired as **** all around, so I think I got a good workout. Sweat like a mofo too -_- A bit shorter than I expected, took about 50 mins, as oppose to the 90-120 I usually spent in the gym free styling it XD Might add a couple accessory exercises once I feel comfortable with what I got.

    As BombD suggested, 4x6 was a little much for the deadlift. I dropped it to 3x5 with a lighter weight still, because I felt my form was stressing my lower back a bit much. After working on form a bit more, I will push the weight back up, and probably stick with the 3x5. Chinups werent 4x6 either. I pretty much just hit up the pullup bar and did 4 sets. Went like 15, 10, 5, 5. Think that will work out fine for me.

    Question: I was trying to do straight sets for this workout (same weight all 4 sets) but I found on every exercise (bench, squat, deadlift) I had to drop 10-20 lbs for the last set or 2. If I keep my weight the same, this trend will probably continue. The way I figure, I could either drop 10-20 lbs from the start, and go from there; or continue what im doing and just drop 10-20 for the last set. Thoughts? Most of the stuff Ive read up on here, suggests going lighter from the start. But I think If I wait till my last set or 2 to drop the weight, I will overload my muscles faster. (in a good way)

    As for deloading, not too particularly worried about it at the moment. Just trying to get myself into a set regime and stay on it for now. Kinda in the 'day to day' planning right now. Once I get a week or 2 under my belt, I will start looking further ahead. I will be on this regime for 2 months without fail (stationed in the desert, we leave for home in 2 months) and hopefully will stick to it in the following months. I suppose I could do the first month (4 weeks) at this pace, then drop it by 10-20% for 2 weeks, then pick the pace back up for the last 2 weeks. After that I will have to write up a new plan that fits the new schedule we will have back in the states. Does that sound like it will be good for recovering?

    Thankyou for all the criticism so far. I feel like I am well on my way to getting an excellent
    system down to improving myself as a whole. Appreciate it =)
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  9. #9
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    PS: Just a thought, think this regime will get me some decent noob gains? Just curious...

    [hitting up the beaches of Hawaii once i get back home in 2 months =) ]

    *flexes imaginary muscles*
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  10. #10
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Red face

    Really liking this so far. Really motivated to get to the next workout day =)
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  11. #11
    1100 total wuwu joelash302's Avatar
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    I'd kill the abs for now and reduce cardio.

    Reasons - abs get drilled with heavy lifts anyway, i'd tack them on the end of day 1 and 5 if necessary.

    Reduction in cardio - Well, I just plain hate cardio but I would also argue that it's easier to gain strength and size without running all the time. Controlling your weight gain with tighter diet is easier.

    Other than that looks good. Maybe spice it up with some 3-6 rep weighted chin ups one of them days.
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  12. #12
    Registered User BombDonald's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Condordagreat View Post
    Question: I was trying to do straight sets for this workout (same weight all 4 sets) but I found on every exercise (bench, squat, deadlift) I had to drop 10-20 lbs for the last set or 2. If I keep my weight the same, this trend will probably continue. The way I figure, I could either drop 10-20 lbs from the start, and go from there; or continue what im doing and just drop 10-20 for the last set. Thoughts? Most of the stuff Ive read up on here, suggests going lighter from the start. But I think If I wait till my last set or 2 to drop the weight, I will overload my muscles faster. (in a good way)
    Either trying to do straight sets with a lighter weight or ramping up to a top set of 6 would be best IMO. You can always do 1-2 back off sets after ramping up.

    Example:
    245x6
    275x6
    295x6
    315x6
    225x15-20

    Just a thought.
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  13. #13
    Registered User cdayton11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joelash302 View Post
    I'd kill the abs for now and reduce cardio.

    Reasons - abs get drilled with heavy lifts anyway, i'd tack them on the end of day 1 and 5 if necessary.

    Reduction in cardio - Well, I just plain hate cardio but I would also argue that it's easier to gain strength and size without running all the time. Controlling your weight gain with tighter diet is easier.

    Other than that looks good. Maybe spice it up with some 3-6 rep weighted chin ups one of them days.

    I agree about the abs... most of the time it is simply overkill. however, i do find that short, intense cardio training is beneficial because of the increased blood flow. Ditch the abs and shorten the cardio.
    Cday
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    If you are trying for stright sets and you can't complete all the reps for each exercise, then you have options:

    1. Reduce weight, so that you can get all the reps, then slowly work up.
    2. Increase rest times, so your body is more able to recover. I'd try this first. If you managed to do that first workout in 50 minutes, then either you didn't warmup or you took quick breaks.
    3. Don't do straight sets across, and do something like ramping with burnout sets, as per BombDonald's suggestion.
    GOMAD!
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    Doesn't look too shabby as far as a starting workout. If you're going to be in the gym 6 days per week though here is what i had my younger brother do for 6 months with good results when he started lifting.

    A:

    Back Squat
    Bench Press
    Barbell Rows
    Pullups/Chins

    B:

    Front Squats
    Standing Press/Push Press
    Deadlifts
    Dips

    I had him alternating these seperate sessions 3 times per week, then on the 3 other days he trained with me i'd let him either focus on weak points, do GPP or do some light olympic lifts. As for the sets and reps i'd advise to stay in the realm of 3-5 reps most of the time on the big lifts and do higher rep stuff on arms and bodyweight stuff. So all together it looked something along these lines:

    Monday:

    Back Squats-10x3
    Bench Press-5x5
    Barbell Rows-5x5
    Pullups-5x10

    Tuesday:

    Barbell Curls/Extensions/Weighted Situps

    Wednesday:

    Front Squats-10x3
    Push Press-10x2
    Deadlifts-Ramp to a heavy triple
    Dips-5x10

    Thursday:

    20-30 mins of clean and press (light)

    Friday:

    Back Squats-5x5
    Bench Press-10x3
    Barbell Rows-5x5
    Pullups-5x10

    Saturday:

    Grip work/GPP

    Sunday-Off

    This is just to give you an idea as i know it worked very well for him and although similar, i prefer it to starting strength as it allows a little more freedom, more volume and a better variety of exercises. Feel free to work in higher rep ranges from time to time if you feel the urge.
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  16. #16
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Thankyou thankyou. All sound advice! (If you didnt get reps, blame the system. Apparently there is a max limit of reps you can give -_-)

    Will lower the weight a tiny bit, and try the straight sets for a couple more workout days. If I still dont like it, I will go to ramping it up with burnout sets. I was actually suprised with this whole concept of 'straight sets' when I got here as it is. I took a couple workout 'classes' back in the day, and they always had increasing the weight. I guess that makes it harder to monitor overall progress, as your increase may change from day to day. Its just all the premade beginner workouts had straight sets, so I figured that was a good start for a beginner.

    As for taking out the abs altogether...ehh. Really dont mean to ignore with the advice of people who are significantly more experienced than I, but having abs on 'off' days sounds (for lack of a better word) fun. I can tell that the core lifts work abs, but Id still like to target them specifically..i dunno

    I like the idea of going light on the cardio. Recently been wondering, since you pretty much either one: bulk up or two: are cutting at any given time. If you are trying to bulk up, a crap load of cardio burning all your Calories that your muscles could use to build muscle seems rather counter-productive. But I still need to be able to run (kinda goes with the job) so I put cardio in there anyway, so that I can strengthen my heart/lungs if nothing else.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by joelash302 View Post
    I'd kill the abs for now and reduce cardio.

    Reasons - abs get drilled with heavy lifts anyway, i'd tack them on the end of day 1 and 5 if necessary.

    Reduction in cardio - Well, I just plain hate cardio but I would also argue that it's easier to gain strength and size without running all the time. Controlling your weight gain with tighter diet is easier.

    Other than that looks good. Maybe spice it up with some 3-6 rep weighted chin ups one of them days.
    I'd say reduce cardio also, but don't eliminate it. Stretching relaxes muscles which actually makes lifting harder; instead do 5 minutes of cardio running maybe 7.5 mph or 6 mph for 10. no more or you could fatigue yourself. Your program is about gaining size and nothing more. Save the cut for down the road.
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  18. #18
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Ok, I like the workouts im using, but im motivated to go workout more often that I am, and actually have more time now. Would there be any issues if I change it up so that I go to the gym 2 days in a row then have a rest day, so in my 6 day split it will be: gym gym rest gym gym rest. Will my muscles still have ample time to build with this split? I think they should, because Im still pretty weak so Im not using too heavy of weights at the moment. Heres my blueprint for my revised 6 day split

    Day 1:
    Squat 4x6
    Military press 4x6
    Dips 4x6
    Chinups 4 max sets
    Deadlift 3x5

    Day 2:
    Bench 4x6
    Rows 4x6
    Pullups 4 max sets
    Chinups 4 max sets
    calf raises 3x15

    Day 3:
    Rest-light cardio and abs

    Then repeat for days 4-6. That way I hit everything twice a week.

    What you think? Same goal, NOOB GAINS =) Going to be on this program solid for 2 months, then reassess
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  19. #19
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Bump! Does the revised plan look alright? Keep in mind, the first 3 day split in the week will be a heavy lift, then the second go around will be a moderate lift. That way I dont burn the **** out
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  20. #20
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    I really don't like the new plan. It is hitting your upper body way too much. Keeping your lower body on one day and upper body on another would be more beneficial. Something like:

    Day 1:
    Squat 4x6
    Stiff leg deadlifts 4x6
    calf raises 3x15

    Day 2:
    Bench 4x6
    Rows 4x6
    Dips 2 max sets
    Pullups 2 max sets
    calf raises 3x15

    Then on your 2nd rotation do a different rep scheme, something like 3x10-15. Vary your calf workouts as well. Just some things to think about.
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  21. #21
    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Yea, there is alot of upper body there; will probably take chinups off one of the days. Dont need to do them 2 days in a row. As for splitting upper and lower, I kept them mixed on purpose. Split up bench from dips, because both work tris and wanted some light recovery before doing the other. Think I should put them on same day?

    Other than that, think Its good? What Im worried about most is overtraining. Im crazy motivated now, and have more and more time available to go to the gym (only 3 or 4 exercises a day sounded too low) but I dont want to overdo it and screw myself over.

    Thankyou for input!

    *Yea on my second rep scheme ima go lighter and more reps.
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  22. #22
    Registered User BombDonald's Avatar
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    I just think it would be really difficult to do heavy benching the day after heaving pressing and dips.
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by BombDonald View Post
    I just think it would be really difficult to do heavy benching the day after heaving pressing and dips.
    Great point here. Suggest antagonists be loaded in EDT fashion to rectify...
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    Registered User Condordagreat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post
    Great point here. Suggest antagonists be loaded in EDT fashion to rectify...
    I feel uneducated...

    Rephrase please?
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  25. #25
    Registered User Mixelflick's Avatar
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    Briefly, Staley advocates antagonistic muscles be trained immediately after your first set.

    As an example:

    Incline DB curls
    Overhead tricep extensions

    Triceps would be the antagonist muscle group to the biceps. These sets are performed back to back, followed by a rest period of say - 2 minutes in between sets

    KEY POINTS

    - Alternate antagonistic muscle exercises in jump set fahion
    - Staley's generally uses 15-20 minutes, (called a PR Zones).
    - You perform just this 2 to 3 PR Zones per workout (the other 2 with different exercises).
    - Your target weight is one that you can do 10 clean reps with.
    - You will begin with alternating sets of 5 or 6 reps.
    - As you tire, you may reduce set reps to 4 then 2 and end with singles.
    - Your goal is to do as many reps with good form as possible in the PR Zone.
    - Do not work to, or near failure in the early sets.
    - You may reach failure at the end as you try to beat your previous record.
    - Once able to do 20% more reps than your prior workout, increase load 5% and begin

    As an example, let's say you get a total of 60 reps total your first workout. You perform subsequent workouts with the same weight used on the same exercises, but shoot for more total reps. The absolute key is maintaining the strict 2 min rest intervals. For as you move greater tonnage per unit of time, it increases density overload.

    Once able to perform 20% more reps (72 total), up the weight used on each exercise by 5% and re-commence with new baseline #'s.

    There are additional tricks to get more out of this, but I'll stop there to see if you're with me so far.

    Any questions as to the above?
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    Originally Posted by Mixelflick View Post

    Any questions as to the above?
    Still a bit of lingo I am not quite tuned to, but I got the gist of it.

    Will try it out. Still remodding the workout to something that seems like it will work for me. Appreciate the advice =)
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  27. #27
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    Great man glad I could help..
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