Cost No Object Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best

[HealthNutMD]

Did anyone else hear that David Int. is no longer manufacturing the future line? Really wanted the pullover. Chris can you tell me your experience with them and shipping? Are you from Pittsburgh?

They told me that they were going to stop selling the Future Line, but they were waiting for me to make up my mind about buying some pieces. I ended up not buying from them. Yes, the pullover was a great piece. Excellent range of motion. I'm a little annoyed at my Nautilus Power Plus plate loader in regards to hitting a "stop" too early at the end of the motion. The David Future Line pullover, you will never hit the stop.

Yes, originally from Pittsburgh.

[HealthNutMD]

During my upgrade process I have been considering some machines based on forum input. Before finalizing I would like to ask a couple of questions for those of you can help. Thanks in advance.

Currently own the ISO hammer shoulder press (aka behind the neck press) (sorry cannot post pics yet)
I am considering the Power Life plate loaded and the Deltoid Press by Panatta.
I would like to demo the PL and P but not sure where to locate or even if Cali has a place housing them.
From what I have read the PL is superior to Hammer (I like the hammer, but in-keeping with thread searching for the best)
As far as footprint PL site has no info that I could read. Panatta foot print is most favorable.
At any rate: 1) What makes the PL better than Hammer?
2) Is it worth having all three, two, or just one?

Thanks in advance

PS Next I will cover lateral raise machines, then rear deltoid. I do lean toward plate loaded machines, but I am not opposed to selectorized. Both type of machines complement free weights movements.

By the way I am 44Juice. somehow I made a mistake and got my name changed.

1) The Power Lift Plate loaded shoulder is pure amazing. I used to like the Hammer strenght version very much, but the Power Lift version is much better. As I mentioned in this thread, the head engineer at Power Lift used to work for Hammer Strength. In our discussions, the Power lift version was created to be superior to the Hammer strength version in every way.... and it is. Much longer lever arms means better motion path (straighter). Slightly less convergence (the hammer had a little too much) The Power Lift is perfect. You also get better grips and two grip choices... blows the Hammer away. Its also build like a machine from hell with 7 guage steel and massive tubing... It does make a difference in stability/feel.

2) The Panatta Deltoid Press is insane. It is pure genius. If I had to have only one shoulder machine, the Panatta would be it.

Yes, it is worth it to have both of these machines. I would not part with either.


We are going to do another Panatta order sometime in the summer most likely. The earliest would be end of June. I'll talk about it here sometime in the first or second week of June.


3) Strive selectorized Lateral raise, the currently available version. No question to me this machine blows the hell out of plate loaded or selectorized machines of its type. If you like, have them throw a few more plates on the weight stack just to be safe. I always add more plates when I'm given the choice or they are willing. I'm not going to repeat why this machine is so good because it is posted many times. The most current version they are selling is the best.


Yes, Those are my core shoulder machines.

[HealthNutMD]

I wonder if anyone has had the chance to try the Panatta triceps extension. I'd be curios to know if its one of those must have items.

I did. I posted pictures of it from my visit to panatta. Its one of the pieces I want to purchase on the next visit.

Ive tried the old Flex Fitness overhead tricep, Bodymasters overhead tricep... and to me, the panatta is the winner. It has that awesome tricep attachment on a cable, and a footbar for pre-stretch.... Of the overhead tricep machines, it is by far my favorite... and the footprint is small as well. Plenty of pics of it in here.


I'm certain I tried the Atlantis tricep when I visited, but I don't recall it anymore. I wouldn't mind going back to the Atlantis gym in Montreal when I get a chance. I want to try the new dumbbell benches. I'll have to give Yosi a call and see if they are releasing any of those from Prototype versions.

[HealthNutMD]

We got Tk Stars New True Wing Lat Bar a few weeks ago & its Unbelievable !!! He got the angle just perfect for pulldowns unlike any pulldown bar I have ever used. I can't say enough great things about all these quality heavy duty Handles he has been making this year http://tkstar.com/category.sc?categoryId=98

They are beyond worth it, will last a lifetime, such amazing quality craftsmanship & the angles are just perfect

Some great news his new shop is complete & he is once again making his famous seated calf & very soon his ultimate preacher curl !!!

That is an interesting shape to the Lat pulldown bar.

whats that lat pulldown bar picture below it?

That is great news on the seated calf and preacher curl. Look forward to see pics.

[HealthNutMD]

Congrats to Big Feather on those beautiful Nebula pieces....

[ndmike99]

Its been a while I have a lot of catching up to read back on this forum but I am glad its still alive. Although I have different opinions of many of the best of the best threw my own training by Chris creating this forum it has connected a lot of good people & I hope it continues to...

We got Tk Stars New True Wing Lat Bar a few weeks ago & its Unbelievable !!! He got the angle just perfect for pulldowns unlike any pulldown bar I have ever used. I can't say enough great things about all these quality heavy duty Handels he has been making this year http://tkstar.com/category.sc?categoryId=98

They are beyond worth it, will last a lifetime, such amazing quality craftsmanship & the angles are just perfect

Some great news his new shop is complete & he is once again making his famous seated calf & very soon his ultimate preacher curl !!!

This could be the best lat bar ever made for all I know, but asking 287 and not even taking the time to proof read the description on the website seems silly. Is that really how he wants the webpage to look?

http://tkstar.com/product.sc?product...&categoryId=98

'YOU MUST FEEL THIS TO BELIEVE IT, IT PUT THIS PIECE OF CRAP TO SHAME, WHO EVER THOUGHT OF THIS BAR SHOULD BE ARRESTED ., AND PUT IN THE KLINK./I IS Impossible to have your hands sideways and get full flextation of your back. This bar is the opposite of doing behind the neck presses, destroying your tendons with pressure.that conect your RHOMBOIDS.'

It is hard to take him seriously with that type of write up.

[HealthNutMD]

'YOU MUST FEEL THIS TO BELIEVE IT, IT PUT THIS PIECE OF CRAP TO SHAME, WHO EVER THOUGHT OF THIS BAR SHOULD BE ARRESTED ., AND PUT IN THE KLINK./I IS Impossible to have your hands sideways and get full flextation of your back. This bar is the opposite of doing behind the neck presses, destroying your tendons with pressure.that conect your RHOMBOIDS.'

It is hard to take him seriously with that type of write up.

Yes, he needs to re-write that. And that second picture of a different lat bar below it makes no sense. Lots of confusion and word salad going on there ...

Would love to try it.

[STR8OUT]

Yes, he needs to re-write that. And that second picture of a different lat bar below it makes no sense. Lots of confusion and word salad going on there ...

Would love to try it.

Agree he really needs to revise that. His bar does look awesome but I dont know why he's talking crap on neutral grip pulldown bar in the pic.

[44Juice]

1) The Power Lift Plate loaded shoulder is pure amazing. I used to like the Hammer strenght version very much, but the Power Lift version is much better. As I mentioned in this thread, the head engineer at Power Lift used to work for Hammer Strength. In our discussions, the Power lift version was created to be superior to the Hammer strength version in every way.... and it is. Much longer lever arms means better motion path (straighter). Slightly less convergence (the hammer had a little too much) The Power Lift is perfect. You also get better grips and two grip choices... blows the Hammer away. Its also build like a machine from hell with 7 guage steel and massive tubing... It does make a difference in stability/feel.

2) The Panatta Deltoid Press is insane. It is pure genius. If I had to have only one shoulder machine, the Panatta would be it.

Yes, it is worth it to have both of these machines. I would not part with either.


We are going to do another Panatta order sometime in the summer most likely. The earliest would be end of June. I'll talk about it here sometime in the first or second week of June.


3) Strive selectorized Lateral raise, the currently available version. No question to me this machine blows the hell out of plate loaded or selectorized machines of its type. If you like, have them throw a few more plates on the weight stack just to be safe. I always add more plates when I'm given the choice or they are willing. I'm not going to repeat why this machine is so good because it is posted many times. The most current version they are selling is the best.


Yes, Those are my core shoulder machines.

Thanks for the feedback HNMD. Going to upgrade my Hammer for Power Lift. I will try to find pricing on Power Lift shoulder. Also will grab the Panatta Deltoid press with the next group order. If you still have a price for the Panatta please PM the amount. Thanks

As far as side lateral machines go I had the Hammer plate loaded. I liked it during the beginning, but after a while I felt discomfort on the shoulder joints. So I replaced it with a Life Fitness Signature series selectorized lateral raise. The movement is smooth, but the weight stack is inadequate. I am definitely going after the Strive lateral raise selectorized.

Thanks again.

[bigfeather]

Congrats to Big Feather on those beautiful Nebula pieces....

Thanks Brother! The reason why I have them is this Thread! Brilliant! For a man as myself with a pure passion for pushing and pulling this Thread has done incredible things for me! I will never stop thanking you!!!!!

[HealthNutMD]

Thanks Brother! The reason why I have them is this Thread! Brilliant! For a man as myself with a pure passion for pushing and pulling this Thread has done incredible things for me! I will never stop thanking you!!!!!

I hope you can come to Ft Lauderdale/Miami area soon. Let me know.

[HealthNutMD]

Thanks for the feedback HNMD. Going to upgrade my Hammer for Power Lift. I will try to find pricing on Power Lift shoulder. Also will grab the Panatta Deltoid press with the next group order. If you still have a price for the Panatta please PM the amount. Thanks

As far as side lateral machines go I had the Hammer plate loaded. I liked it during the beginning, but after a while I felt discomfort on the shoulder joints. So I replaced it with a Life Fitness Signature series selectorized lateral raise. The movement is smooth, but the weight stack is inadequate. I am definitely going after the Strive lateral raise selectorized.

Thanks again.

I did shoulders today. That Panatta Deltoid will never cease to amaze me, it is pure genious. I sat there today and laughed after I did shoulders today... just laughed at how ridiculously, insanely, creative, revolutionary that shoulder machine is... There is absolutely, positively no other machine like it... its disgustingly good. Maybe I'm starting to sound like TK... but I truly mean it.

I keep the 3 grip Nebula around because it is a piece of history, and because it is a great shoulder machine in regards to other 'shoulder' machines... but it magnitudes of order inferior to the Panatta. The strength curve on the Nebula is a bit too steep. Its very heavy at the start position, and tapers off too much at the end. I'm not a collector type at all, but it does mean something to have the second best shoulder machine, and a rare piece. I also have the other Nebula machines that match it, and I like those as the second best machines as well. So the Nebula serve as my 'variety' and 'superset' pieces for the Panatta equivalents.

For shoulders today, I was supsetting between the Power-Lift, Panatta, and the Nebula Shoulder. I end with the Strive. Certainly Dumbbell presses and bar work are part of my workout as well, and often the main part... only finishing with machines.

When you super-set between the Panatta, Power-Lift, and Nebula, you'll easily notice the steep drop-off on the strength curve on the nebula (which gets a little too light towards the top). Anyway, its a lot of fun to do shoulders here. You'll love the Power-Lift.

Back to the Panatta Deltoid, it is just in a league of its own... its not comparable to JACK SQUAT!!! (Chris Farley)

[bendsteel]

[QUOTE=STR8OUT;1349052631]Agree he really needs to revise that. His bar does look awesome but I dont know why he's talking crap on neutral grip pulldown bar in the pic.

In 1973 how many differant lat bars were there? 3?

As the story was told in 1972 Aurther Jones flew in Arnold and others to deland fla. to train them in the HIT program (train to failure)
he made Mike Mentzer and Sergio O throw up..
Arnold got on the pull over after 3 reps said i am flying back to calif tonight,

"Anything i do to my body , it will grow"

[themaddemon]

Hello guys,

I am looking for used Roger Athletics Pendulum 3-way Row, Squat Pro and Seated Squat Pro with excellent condition any idea where to buy them?

[Regeneration]

Hey guys, Ricky here, been a while. Things have been crazy, so figured I would check in to see how everyone is doing. Just a quick update, I have bought out Ken on the manufacturing side of things, and the powder coating. So I know before you guys had a lot of great ideas, so please feel free to contact me. Ken still does the used Medx. Also, if anyone is looking. I am in the process of refurbing a Nautilus Double chest, Double shoulder , super pullover, hip/back, Bi/Tri and lower back and adding needle bearings.. I have them taken apart and ready to be blasted and powdered, but wanted to wait and powder once I had a buyer, and would powder what ever color they wanted along with pads. Not sure how you all feel about these 6 pieces, these all have the weight stack. I know a lot of you have my email and phone number, so email or call, or write on here, I plan on staying in touch on here a lot more. Business is going great with refurbishing other peoples machines.

[HealthNutMD]

Hey guys, Ricky here, been a while. Things have been crazy, so figured I would check in to see how everyone is doing. Just a quick update, I have bought out Ken on the manufacturing side of things, and the powder coating. So I know before you guys had a lot of great ideas, so please feel free to contact me. Ken still does the used Medx. Also, if anyone is looking. I am in the process of refurbing a Nautilus Double chest, Double shoulder , super pullover, hip/back, Bi/Tri and lower back and adding needle bearings.. I have them taken apart and ready to be blasted and powdered, but wanted to wait and powder once I had a buyer, and would powder what ever color they wanted along with pads. Not sure how you all feel about these 6 pieces, these all have the weight stack. I know a lot of you have my email and phone number, so email or call, or write on here, I plan on staying in touch on here a lot more. Business is going great with refurbishing other peoples machines.

That is great news Ricky!

[HealthNutMD]

I'm considering stepping up the pace of the Panatta order. I was actually planning to go to the Rimini Wellness show in Italy in May this year, but, I think its probably best to put that money towards the next order.

I'll keep everyone updated, but if you are thinking of getting in on this order, let me know. We could submit an order as early as end of April. I'll wait to hear from everyone and see what works best for everyone. May, or June would be fine with me for the submission of the order if people need more time to get their funds together.

From the best of my knowledge, we have about three people who want the panatta deltoid press. I think we have one lat pulldown request, one Ab machine request.

Goalder will distribute the machines to everyone as done previously.

[Ranman1482]

I'm new to this thread. Considering a piece or two from Panatta. How do you work the order? When you talk of Panatta having a nice delt press are you talking the plate loaded or selectorized line?

[HealthNutMD]

I'm new to this thread. Considering a piece or two from Panatta. How do you work the order? When you talk of Panatta having a nice delt press are you talking the plate loaded or selectorized line?

The Plate loaded Deltoid press is the piece I have been talking about.

What I'll do during April is get a list of machines together from everyone who is interested. I'll get the pricing together for the machines and let people know the price of each machine.

What we did was break down the shipping charge into per machine charge. Say we order 16 machines total and get a 40 ft container: IF someone orders 3 machines, they pay 3/16 of the total shipping charge. If someone orders one machine, 1/16... someone 5, then 5/16. Easy enough. It worked out very well last time. I believe we ended up paying about $400-$450 per machine to get delivered here to my place. Then Goalder would need to pick up and deliver from here (unless someone is close enough for pick-up).

Anyway, it all went well last time and paved the way for an easier process this time.

I'll need to contact Panatta and get the pricing again. At this time, I just need people to PM me with what pieces they have interest in, and I can provide the price. Give me some time though to respond, its really busy with work. What I want to do is get an idea who is serious and which pieces, and then submit the preliminary order to Panatta, then I can get a price quote back.

IF everyone is ready by the end of April, then we will collect the 50% deposit then. In approximately 8 weeks after submitting the initial deposit, the order will be ready to ship. We need to send the final balance in at the time of shipping. IT takes about 4 weeks from what I remember to get the container to my door.

[sbd1805]

I had a nice time in Portland this last weekend. Whenever I go there I always try to get in a float (isolation tank/float tank) I really wish I had one for personal use. If you guys ever have the opportunity to try it I highly recommend it.

  On to the Star Trac demo

Star Trac Leverage Shoulder:
I really liked this machine it had a very comfortable seat/back pad. Knurled grips where a plus in my opinion. Nice convergence, not to much not to little. So I really like to try and isolate  my medial deltoids, so I faced the back pad and used it that way, that really enabled me to target that area very well.
I would give the machine a solid A rating.

Star Trac Leverage chest:
The whole leverage line had very comfortable seats/back pads. I felt this piece had the overall potential to hit you in all areas of the chest depending on seat hight. I will note that on the Leverage chest pieces the adjustable starting position telescoping arms or "pretty stretch" could have been a little more for my liking and I am sure some of you would feel the same.

Star Trac Leverage Decline:
This was my favorite piece that I was able to demo. Really slams the lower pectoral, very good convergence, nice seat position, again love the knurled grips. I would give this the nod over the Hammer decline and that's saying a lot for me because the Hammer decline is one of my favorite pieces of the Hammer line.

Star Trac Leverage Low Row:
I was not a fan of this. I was hoping it would be nice because of the linkage design it employs, however that was not the case. Not much else to say about it.

Star Trac Leverage Pulldown:
I liked this piece, once again the knurled grips are a plus on this machine. The linkage had a good strength curve to it. I would say better than the Hammer but for me the Avenger pulldown is a step above it.

Unfortunately they did not have the Leverage Incline, High row or the Bicep. I was really bummed they didn't have the Incline.

A  Con of all the Chest and the shoulder machine, was I felt the linkage system could be engineered to be a little stronger. I was told by a former Star Trac Rep that shortly after Star Trac acquired Flex Fitness, they shipped production to China. But overall the the two chest machines and the shoulder are very nice in my opinion.

[sbd1805]

 Congrats to Bud (coach_ras) on his newly acquired Pit Shark, can't wait to try it next time I visit.
 It's a shame Panatta doesn't have a US retailer, I would love to demo a few of their lines. Specifically singling out the shoulder press since that seems to be the home run piece in that line, a few things that really stand out for me just from videos and pictures in have seen of it is:

 ●The easy entry foot pedal, I can't tell you how many times I have injured my shoulder on a machine just from the bottom starting position, the Panatta looks as though this problem would be eliminated because of the foot pedal entry.

●Seat depth, why more manufacturers do not factor this in is beyond me. If you have a very big guy from  chest to back depth a regular shoulder machine would be like a behind the neck press and for a thin guy with it would be more of a front delt military press, the Panatta looks as if you could accomplish both behind the neck press and military press and probably in between no matter how thick you are front to back.

Unfortunately I won't be able to purchase any of the Panatta pieces with the order you guys are making in the near future as I have already committed to other pieces. I also should demo them, I have learned that the hard way in the past, but Italy isn't just down the interstate for me so I am not sure about how I will go about that.
 I look forward to reading and seeing your guys Panatta purchases.

[HealthNutMD]

 
 I look forward to reading and seeing your guys Panatta purchases.

Some of the pics have been posted from the prior order. I was hoping they might post some pics themselves.

As far as demoing, you don't need to go to Italy, just here in Ft. Lauderdale. While I don't have the whole line, I feel I have the relevant ones that are the best in the line.

In regards to the Foot pedal and adjustable seat... yes, nothing like it. Whats even more amazing is the adjustable back pad... its about 12" of adjustment, maybe more, I have to measure it. So yes, you can get behind the neck type of presses and anything in-between. You simply adjust the backpad as forward or backward as you like. and that grip.... multiple grip possibilities, including neutral. Its a work of art.

[Agathomax]

Speaking about shoulder press, I've just had the oportunity a few weeks ago to acquire a Vasil Gym one. I've speak briefly before about this brand, Vasil gym is an ukrainian brand, who mainly copied Panatta & Hammer strength free weight models. In France, the main Panatta seller from 1986 to 2001 start to work with Vasil in 2002 to begin importation, that's why it's happen sometime to find Vasil equipment on the french craiglist: "le bon coin"

vasilgym.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout= blog&id=10&Itemid=39&lang=en

Since the price was interesting, I've took an Iso lateral row, an incline bench press, and a shoulder press. Foot leverage, multi hand grip, adjustable seat and back pad (angle)...very nice Hammer Strength inspiration IMO adding more adjustable parts and foot leverage. Here you find below a few picture and a video to check the equipment in motion.

Vasil Sway 1000 Shoulder press
i.imgur.com/AF6AMDB.jpg
i.imgur.com/rfIQcs6.jpg
i.imgur.com/sbh9Zww.jpg
i.imgur.com/Iz70H6J.jpg
i.imgur.com/GRcjKPH.jpg
i.imgur.com/NTkjeOP.jpg
i.imgur.com/aroi6Kv.jpg
i.imgur.com/yvtSgy5.jpg

With front grip:
youtu.be/-Ke54zzv5as
With rear grip:
youtu.be/op3bSS-TrqQ

Iso lateral Incline bench press:
i.imgur.com/DieyqP8.jpg
i.imgur.com/YC51KKO.jpg
i.imgur.com/3FDyqnk.jpg


Iso lateral row:
i.imgur.com/o3bqmbU.jpg
Adjustable front pad:
i.imgur.com/mqc7ajh.jpg

[Ranman1482]

Any thoughts on Strive converging row? Any opinions on a better low row?

[HealthNutMD]

Any thoughts on Strive converging row? Any opinions on a better low row?

Their mid row is decent, I'd give it a A-/B+

I don't recall Strive having a low row. Unless you mean the Strive Extreme Row. If you are talking about the Strive Extreme Row, it is a very interesting piece. I think on paper, its amazing. When I demoed it a few times, I couldn't get in good position. I felt like I was using a lot of bicep. I think they could redesign it, tweak it, and make it an incredible piece. Its so close to being one of those one-hit wonder pieces, but its not in its current form, at least in my opinion. It needs some tweaking (nothing that they have expressed any interest in doing). I wanted to like it... really love the chest support concept... but it just doesn't feel right to me.

As far as low Row, I'd give the Panatta Low row, the clear winner. Panatta has been endlessly tweaking it. The latest version is awesome. It was on my purchase list for this upcoming Panatta order, but I think Reality has set in... as much as I love it, I don;t think I can justify having the Panatta Low row and the Nebula Low Row.

As I mentioned before, I think the Nebula 'old-school' low row, is actually an 'extra-low' row... it really can hit your traps a lot. I'm still tempted to purchase the Panatta Low Row... I'll have to think about it.

The Hammer Strength Low Row is not quite as good as the Panatta, but it is still a very good machine--if you like the low row.

[HealthNutMD]

 It's a shame Panatta doesn't have a US retailer, I would love to demo a few of their lines. Specifically singling out the shoulder press since that seems to be the home run piece in that line

The one thing I want to mention again is the Lat Machine Convergent. The Panatta Lat Pulldown is every bit of ingenious as the Deltoid press.


http://www.panattasport.com/en/product/1HP501.html


Thats why I hate to rave about the deltoid so much, because they are all great. But I'd say the Deltoid press and the Lat pulldown are the most irreplaceable pieces. While all the Panatta pieces that I own are better than any other equivalent machine I have, the Lat Pulldown and Deltoid are the two most irreplaceable.

I'm not sure if the video still works I posted two years ago in this thread.

[Ranman1482]

I had the Strive extreme row. Was not too crazy about it neither and agree that positioning was awkward, but like you feel it has potential.

[BigBicepsCarl]

Hi, glad I found this forum. Just inherited a lump sum of money. Bodybuilding has always been my passion. Chris you are doing a great job!!! Just love how you have managed to put together the best machines it makes it so easy for gym lovers. I am interested in ordering the Panatta Deltoid press & lat pull down. How do I do this?

[Ranman1482]

Is Prime's new evolution line going to have a row? Its not showing one on the website. I think I'm going to go with their legacy line mid row? Any opinions on a better row machine? Most people speak of the Medx or Avenger row being the best. I looked at the Rogers 3 way pendulum row but looks awkward to get in the set position, everyone reaches forwards grabs the weight then pulls back and slides into position. May also look at the extreme row. I like the idea of doing the movement more like a bent over row on a bench.

[anonymous]

I had the Strive extreme row. Was not too crazy about it neither and agree that positioning was awkward, but like you feel it has potential.

I got one for a steal, and hated it because the angle of pull is all wrong for me

Removing the attached bench and replacing it with a much higher, slightly angled flat bench transformed the machine, it feels much better but I still find it inferior to the basic hammer iso and dy rows