NROL4W...All Stages Welcome

[Enneagram1]

Thought I'd pop back in here - it's been a while!

I'm doing the hypertrophy program in NROL. Yesterday was my lower body day and it was a 5 x 5 routine. Well I pushed hard and I beat some of my old records. I did:

176 lbs for dead lifts, and
154 lbs for squats

Now I didn't lift this weight for all the sets but the last 2 sets in each exercise were this weight.

I'm happy (but sore) today

I really like this program.

[aznprincess]

Is this in the original book rather than the one for women? the reason i ask is that the "hypertrophy" routine doesn't sound familiar in the book that i'm doing. phases sounds more familiar...

Thought I'd pop back in here - it's been a while!

I'm doing the hypertrophy program in NROL. Yesterday was my lower body day and it was a 5 x 5 routine. Well I pushed hard and I beat some of my old records. I did:

176 lbs for dead lifts, and
154 lbs for squats

Now I didn't lift this weight for all the sets but the last 2 sets in each exercise were this weight.

I'm happy (but sore) today

I really like this program.

[IronPeach_79]

Okay, so Hypertrophy I in NROL is a real ass-kicker. I think workout 2b almost killed me today. It doesn't look so bad on paper, but it made me wish I was doing NROL4W Stage 7 workout A again. 4x10 squats, deadlift shrugs, bulgarian split squats and step ups. That combo should be illegal.

In the afternoon, I ended up eating a 125 cal cookie. I justified it because I knew I was doing a big leg workout later. On the 3rd set of step ups I remember thinking "thank God I ate the cookie. I think that's the only reason I'm alive right now" LOL. I think of some crazy stuff when I'm in pain. I don't even want to think about how I will feel when I get out of bed in the morning.

OMG, that is hilarious LOL!

What in the world are deadlift shrugs for? I already feel like my traps are built up enough doing what we are. If I do this program, do you think I could just leave that part of exercise out or is it a progression towards another exercise?

[IronPeach_79]

Thought I'd pop back in here - it's been a while!

I'm doing the hypertrophy program in NROL. Yesterday was my lower body day and it was a 5 x 5 routine. Well I pushed hard and I beat some of my old records. I did:

176 lbs for dead lifts, and
154 lbs for squats

Now I didn't lift this weight for all the sets but the last 2 sets in each exercise were this weight.

I'm happy (but sore) today

I really like this program.

So good to hear! I'm going to be following you ONRL'ers a little more closely since I'm going to be looking at this program to follow the Women's.

[IronPeach_79]

[QUOTE=MzMae;549158283]
I have a question about the deadlift. A trainer at the gym advised me to put the bar on the lower rung of the bench press bench and to lift from there. He said that because I was using such low weights, I am "up" to 70 lbs right now, the smaller plates made the bar positioning too low to the ground to allow for proper form. Does this sound right to you? I looked around the site and never saw anything about the bar needing to be up higher.
QUOTE]

I never thought about it until Stage 2 when you do a deadlift off a box. If you aren't up to 45's yet, you don't need to use the box because you're already at a deficit. So in Stage 1, we're doing a conventional deadlift, if the bar isn't high enough, you're really doing a deadlift off a box of sorts. The box is to raise you up a bit more so you'll have a greater range of motion.

With shoulder presses...I like to do them one arm at a time. Not ever time but I find with greater strength, I have better control. So I could do a 30lb db in one arm but 2 at a time might be more difficult. I'd do the 30's one at a time and when I felt strong enough, I'd do them bilaterally. Sometimes, I'd just do one at a time the whole Stage and it wasn't until I was doing my own thing during that week off that Id go for the bilateral press and found I had much better coordination.

Look forward to your progress!!!

[Enneagram1]

Is this in the original book rather than the one for women? the reason i ask is that the "hypertrophy" routine doesn't sound familiar in the book that i'm doing. phases sounds more familiar...

Yep it's in the original NROL book. I was undecided which book to go with but settled on the original one. Perhaps when you are finished the programs in the NROF4W book you can get the original ones to give you more programs to follow. It gives a selection of programs depending on your goals. Hypertrophy, strength, fat loss etc.

The hypertrophy program has an upper body and lower body split. One workout day you do 3x15, the next workout 4x10, then 5x5. And keep rotating through. All with the same exercises. I like doing the 5x5 days because that's my chance to see if I can increase my best lifts.

So good to hear! I'm going to be following you ONRL'ers a little more closely since I'm going to be looking at this program to follow the Women's.

I love the book. My lifts have gone up since starting (especially legs). I started Creatine at the same time so it's probably a bit of both.

I must admit that I'm really sore today though (a good sore )

[aznprincess]

This is a total godsend. i was wondering what i was going to do at the end of NROL4W. I'm all for following the workouts in the original book. sounds like you're having great success.

Yep it's in the original NROL book. I was undecided which book to go with but settled on the original one. Perhaps when you are finished the programs in the NROF4W book you can get the original ones to give you more programs to follow. It gives a selection of programs depending on your goals. Hypertrophy, strength, fat loss etc.

The hypertrophy program has an upper body and lower body split. One workout day you do 3x15, the next workout 4x10, then 5x5. And keep rotating through. All with the same exercises. I like doing the 5x5 days because that's my chance to see if I can increase my best lifts.



I love the book. My lifts have gone up since starting (especially legs). I started Creatine at the same time so it's probably a bit of both.

I must admit that I'm really sore today though (a good sore )

[KimPossible98]

I have some questions for ya'll, I just started NWOL4W this week. I have a bad knee so I am using a lower step for step-ups. I do them with 25 lb. dumbbells now. My hands cramp up from holding the DB's doing the step ups. Do you think I think I should add a bit more height to the step or keep going with the higher weight? Do any of you have problems with hands cramping just from holding the weight?

VERSA GRIPPS! Seriously, my grip sucks and I could not lift and fatigue my legs without them. I'm doing 45lb dumbell step ups and there would be no way I could hang on before my grip gave out. I did not try doing the step ups with a barbell since my gym is kind of small and I thought I might his someone in the head. It seems like a good suggestion though.

I start stage 2 today - anyone got advice for the front squat push press?

[Ameinseto]

VERSA GRIPPS! Seriously, my grip sucks and I could not lift and fatigue my legs without them. I'm doing 45lb dumbell step ups and there would be no way I could hang on before my grip gave out. I did not try doing the step ups with a barbell since my gym is kind of small and I thought I might his someone in the head. It seems like a good suggestion though.

I start stage 2 today - anyone got advice for the front squat push press?

Go really early so no one sees you if you mess up. Kidding. I haven't started Stage 2 yet, but I asked this same question a little while ago and alot of people suggested I just watch a bunch of form videos and start with the bar.

[squeaks77]

Regarding DL's:

Is there any harm in doing them from the floor with nothing bigger than 10lbs plates? I have been doing it that way for almost 2 years. I don't feel like I round my back, I keep an arch the whole time. I'm pretty flexible though and I'm very short if that makes a difference.

Okay, I am still sore from the 4x10 workout I did on Thursday and now I'm doing a 5x5 of the same workout today. I hope it's productive. LOL.

Enneagram1 - we're doing the same workout! How many workouts have you done? I just started last week, so I haven't yet done every variation. That lower body 4x10 wiped me out!

[IronPeach_79]

I LOVE the Squat Push Press!!! Use a low weight bar to get your form down, use the power from the squat to push up with power. Your wrists might feel funny...mind did but it began to feel more natural as I got used to the move.

[KimPossible98]

Oh yeah my wrists did feel really funny on the squat push press but I did like it. I only did the 45lb bar. I thought I could put some weight on but also thought I should get my coordination down before I attempted that.

And oh yeah - SPLIT SQUATS SUCK! Holy crap! They are my new excersize to hate! I did them with one foot on the bench, maybe that foot was up too high???

[CATRACCOM]

Regarding DL's:

Is there any harm in doing them from the floor with nothing bigger than 10lbs plates? I have been doing it that way for almost 2 years. I don't feel like I round my back, I keep an arch the whole time. I'm pretty flexible though and I'm very short if that makes a difference.

Okay, I am still sore from the 4x10 workout I did on Thursday and now I'm doing a 5x5 of the same workout today. I hope it's productive. LOL.

Enneagram1 - we're doing the same workout! How many workouts have you done? I just started last week, so I haven't yet done every variation. That lower body 4x10 wiped me out!

Are you talking about deads from the floor? That's how I do them. If the 10s are working for you...

[aznprincess]

i think doing deads from the floor with 10's is fine. you just get an increased range of motion. before you know it you'll be at 25's anyway.

[IronPeach_79]

I have 1 more workout in Stage 7 and I'm not ready to be done!!! I've got my calories in a groove and I think I just might *dare* go for a repeat of Stage 7

Started reading the Original yesterday and I'm really enjoying it. I thought it was going to be the easy way out if I did it instead of something else but nope...I was wrong. On every page I find myself saying, "Yeah! That's right!" I love his take on biceps curls...if you were running from a bear, would you curl yourself up the tree? No, you'd pull and your biceps would assist the major muscles in getting up up that tree (or cliff...whatever it was.)

I can say I have not done a single curl since February and looking at them, you'd never know!

[Enneagram1]

Okay, I am still sore from the 4x10 workout I did on Thursday and now I'm doing a 5x5 of the same workout today. I hope it's productive. LOL.

Enneagram1 - we're doing the same workout! How many workouts have you done? I just started last week, so I haven't yet done every variation. That lower body 4x10 wiped me out!

Hey there,

I've been doing the Hypertrophy program for a while now - long enough to have done each workout several times. My favorite is the 5x5 because I set myself goals to beat my old best lifts. I did the 5x5 on legs earlier this week and I was sore for days!!

The 3x15 is good because the workout seems to fly by. The 4x10 wipes me out too. It's the one that seems to take the longest. There really isn't much time difference but it feels longer.

Hope that you enjoy the program. Let me know how you're going from time to time.

[Wattsup]

OK...I needed something new, so I started the NROL4W yesterday. Workout A! I warmed up just running a mile to get my heartrate going...then followed the workout to a "t". I do NOT usually squat, and have been working out for 7 solid years! So...I used the bar with 10lbs on each end. I was very proud of myself that I ended up doing 3 sets of 15. My question is this...I am more sore in my inner thighs today than anything else...does this indicate that I wasn't squatting properly? I am sore in my thighs and a little in my glutes, but mainly my inners.

I took today off as the program states which was difficult for me because I am so used to working out 6 days/week!!! I think my problem is I was doing too much cardio, so I plateued because my body was holding onto some fat. We shall see!!!

[MzMae]

I have 1 more workout in Stage 7 and I'm not ready to be done!!! I've got my calories in a groove and I think I just might *dare* go for a repeat of Stage 7

Started reading the Original yesterday and I'm really enjoying it. I thought it was going to be the easy way out if I did it instead of something else but nope...I was wrong. On every page I find myself saying, "Yeah! That's right!" I love his take on biceps curls...if you were running from a bear, would you curl yourself up the tree? No, you'd pull and your biceps would assist the major muscles in getting up up that tree (or cliff...whatever it was.)

I can say I have not done a single curl since February and looking at them, you'd never know!

I miss curls. I am going to stick with the Rules and stay away from curls for now though...I feel like my biceps are getting harder, but not bigger. I don't see anything happening in the triceps area yet though...

[squeaks77]

I miss curls. I am going to stick with the Rules and stay away from curls for now though...I feel like my biceps are getting harder, but not bigger. I don't see anything happening in the triceps area yet though...

Don't worry about not doing curls. I never realized how much you use the smaller muscles when doing compound lifts until doing this program. It took me 6 months to do the whole thing and my bicep strength has gone up without a single curl. In the higher stages you do underhand lat pulldowns and chins and those hit the biceps hard. In fact, I still don't do curls. Whenever I feel the need to wipe out my biceps, I do chins.

[IronPeach_79]

The triceps will come into play more with the underhand pulldowns, pushups, and presses. Make sure your load is just right and the tris with come. Same with the biceps...they'll benefit greatly from the above exercise just in a different way along with rows. Honestly, I was getting worried aobut my tris until I got to Stage 6 and 7. The underhand pulldowns and pullups really got them stimulated again.

[aznprincess]

i've got to agree with the ladies above. i've had no direct arm work and my arms are definitely showing improvement. more than when i was doing isolation exercises. WAY more. i don't know if i'll be able to do "typical" workouts ever again. these big 6 exercises give me so much bang for the buck.

[uk3mi]

I miss curls. I am going to stick with the Rules and stay away from curls for now though...I feel like my biceps are getting harder, but not bigger. I don't see anything happening in the triceps area yet though...

I do also miss some of the isolation work I used to do. But it's true that compound lifts will make it happen. I recently tested my 1RPM on triceps and the weight has gone up, although I haven't done any triceps specific stuff in about 2 months.

Now that said, I'm really feeling that NROL strength workouts are a bit poor on upper body. I'm stuck with my press (bench, overhead). I miss the supporting exercises I used to do, eg turkish getups, windmills, all the DBs variations.

Maybe it's because the original is targeting men, and men tend to focus on upper body so the book is a bit light on that? Whereas for women press is hard work..?

ho gosh I was browsing through the hypertrophy workouts, I read sets of 25 reps in places?? Wish I could do 25 chins in a row It's starting to look like cardio!

[squeaks77]

I do also miss some of the isolation work I used to do. But it's true that compound lifts will make it happen. I recently tested my 1RPM on triceps and the weight has gone up, although I haven't done any triceps specific stuff in about 2 months.

Now that said, I'm really feeling that NROL strength workouts are a bit poor on upper body. I'm stuck with my press (bench, overhead). I miss the supporting exercises I used to do, eg turkish getups, windmills, all the DBs variations.

Maybe it's because the original is targeting men, and men tend to focus on upper body so the book is a bit light on that? Whereas for women press is hard work..?

ho gosh I was browsing through the hypertrophy workouts, I read sets of 25 reps in places?? Wish I could do 25 chins in a row It's starting to look like cardio!

Just about...on the 4x10 upper body workout in H1, my HR got up to 180. I think that's pretty high for an arm workout! I can only imagine what it must have been when I did the 4x10 leg workout. No wonder it made me dizzy and sick.

I think I'll be doing LOTS of negative chins when I get to the 25 rep workouts, since I can currently only do 8 in a row.

[uk3mi]

Just about...on the 4x10 upper body workout in H1, my HR got up to 180. I think that's pretty high for an arm workout! I can only imagine what it must have been when I did the 4x10 leg workout. No wonder it made me dizzy and sick.

I think I'll be doing LOTS of negative chins when I get to the 25 rep workouts, since I can currently only do 8 in a row.

Yes I saw this in the hypertrophy workouts I blanked for a sec, 25 chins in row, ouch!
I think the 25 reps thing for all exercises is mad though. When I do 12 reps, it already feels like I'm doing some barbell cardio workout. I'm not suprised you get dizzy!

In the strength workouts, there is definitely not enough press for me to progress. Love the squats and DL sessions though.

[MzMae]

Well I am a bit bummed. I just took progress pics and measurements and I am heavier and bigger. I don't know; I guess I thought I would get smaller (less fat) with the NROLFW. It may sound silly, since it is a bodyBUILDING plan, lol! I just don't know what my expectations and goals should be. Should I just forget about getting slimmer for now and follow this program to see how my body transforms?

I would appreciate folks looking at my progress photos on my body space and telling me what they see happening...I think that the fat on my body has not lessened (no bueno) but the muscles, at least in my thighs, are getting bigger (muy bueno). And what, exactly, is happening with my rear and the whole back side of me???

I am looking forward to stage 2, cause there is cardio built in; perhaps then some of this fat will come off???

[danibel]

It took me all of Stage 4, but I did a 120-second plank! It's actually possible!

[IronPeach_79]

It took me all of Stage 4, but I did a 120-second plank! It's actually possible!

Awesome!

[IronPeach_79]

MzMae...I went through the same thing. Starting a new program, you really have to look at things other than your image in the mirror because things are happening on the inside first. Your lifts, your stamina, your power...all of that will be results first! I'm going to post this article again because it was at the point you're in now that I found it and it couldn't have come at a better time...print it out and keep it handy!

For me (and I just finished today!!!) this program has been a body changing program. I am probably still the same weight when I started but I look so different. I have muscle in areas there wasn't, I'm leaner in areas that needed leaning, and I just look fitter. Now yes, I could've been better on my diet. If I would've stuck to the 1900 calories, I'd be just as lean as I could be but I didn't I was probably closer to an average of maintenane which explains the muscle in areas and body fat loss in others. Some weeks I was above and some just barely below. Just now am I dropping to about 1750-1850 and seeing some extra body fat drop so I realize I really was above or slightly below for the last 7 months.

Re-evaluate your calories, make sure you're staying within the guidelines of the book, and lift as heavy as the reps allow! The body change will happen and you'll be happier for it.

http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TSInsideOut.html

You Really Do Change from the Inside Out
By John P. Hussman, Ph.D.
All rights reserved and actively enforced.



Nearly everyone I know who has completed a physique transformation, including some of the EAS Champions, say that the changes take place from the inside out. In other words, what you observe outside is just a reflection of the changes that happen in your attitudes and your whole outlook on life.

The first step is to make a decision where you know exactly why you want to change. Your fitness goals are nothing without some reason you have for achieving them. Without that reason to keep you determined, you'll swerve off the road at the first Dairy Queen in sight.

It turns out that the idea of changing from the inside out is literally true as well.

From the notes I've received from some of you, the most common concern seems to be that your fat loss seems too slow. After starting a serious fitness program including cardiovascular and weight training, nearly everyone feels better and more energetic almost immediately (aside from the perpetual soreness). But even after several weeks, some people do not see a noticeable change in the mirror, so far as fat is concerned. And the scale! You've busted your bottom for weeks, and there's no change! Of course, if you've really been half-hearted about following your program, it's clear why this may happen, but it can also happen when you have honestly been experiencing intensity every day, and have been careful about limiting your portions. I've received messages from people literally in tears at the frustration. Kid, the road to Easy Street runs through the sewer. You gotta get tough (words spoken to me by my favorite teacher, Father Arnold Perham).

Here's what's going on. Fat is stored in several places, within the muscle as intramuscular fat (which is why pork is "the other white meat"), around the organs as "visceral fat", and under the skin as "subcutaneous fat". If you're inactive as you get older, the fat starts depositing in the muscles first - the muscle tissue gets "marbelized". After the intramuscular stores are full, the fat spills over to subcutaneous stores, which are more noticeable. Well, now take that process in reverse. Exercise (and specifically interval training and progressive weight training) tends to draw significantly from the intramuscular stores early on, so instead of seeing a major change in the mirror, you may instead feel your muscles getting firmer and less "mushy". That's a good sign. Don't give up! The subcutaneous fat loss becomes more evident once the intramuscular stores are whittled down a bit.

One of the fears I hear very often comes from women with large thighs and calves. The concern is that weight training will make these even larger. Not true. While it may certainly seem that way at first (particularly after you've taken creatine, glutamine or extra carbohydrate and are retaining water), the muscles in your thighs and calves are most likely marbelized with fat. Weight training will actually draw from those intramuscular stores, so that the muscles become leaner and more elongated rather than more bulky. Some women naturally have more muscle tissue (and typically describe themselves as having a "fast metabolism"), and those women can often gain muscle easily. But for most women, especially those who think their metabolism is "slow," it's difficult to strap on bulky muscles through weight training unless they're on steroids.

Second, if you've been lifting weights, you'll also be adding to muscle mass while you lose fat. The muscles become able to store more glycogen, and every gram of glycogen binds itself to several grams of water within the muscle, so a "pumped" muscle is heavier. Regular exercise also increases blood volume. And since protein synthesis typically goes along with increased cell volume (especially if you're using creatine and glutamine), the scale will be an awful measure of the improvements that are going on metabolically. It's ironic - cell volume, blood volume - exactly the things that will be helping you to get fit, can be the things that initially make you think you're making no progress. Fat calipers are a better measure of progress, but even here, if you vary your pinching technique a little bit, you can get inaccurate readings on a day to day basis. Believe me, you're going to have nights when you look in the mirror and say "all this work, and I look the same", and mornings when you just can't believe the improvement. Don't base your enthusiasm about your fitness program on either of those short-term impressions. Do try to troubleshoot by periodically reviewing your diet, intensity, and variety, but stick with it!

For most people, the initial drop in the scale will probably understate your fat loss in the first few weeks. For very overweight people, the drop on the scale will probably exceed your fat loss. That's particularly true if your diet was very high in carbohydrate before you started. In very overweight individuals, even the increased muscle cell and blood volume is typically less than the initial loss in water weight. A lot of people seem to think that water loss is not "real" weight loss. Well, if your fat level stays the same, that's true. But your body's water retention is largely determined by its fat content. So if you lose the fat, the water stays off as well!

Because of these significant differences in fluid-volume changes, some people will notice immediate changes, while others (and I would expect, most) will see only limited changes for the first 5 weeks or so. That seems like an awfully long time to wait, but remember, fat doesn't "spot reduce" - it comes off in sheets, like an onion. That's why you can estimate your overall bodyfat levels just by measuring at one or two sites. Fat isn't so exquisitely distributed that those estimates are exact, so if you're doing bodyfat readings at just one or two sites, your figures can jump and stall from time to time. The upper body (shoulders, chest, upper abdominal area) generally shows improvement first. But expect that the areas you've always thought were "too fat" will still look too fat for a while, even though you feel good, look "healthier", and can gradually measure that your fat percentage is going down.

There's so much pressure to see quick results that it's easy to forget the point of this, which is quite frankly to save your life. Don't ignore increases in strength and overall feeling of health and well-being. Those are goals too.

If you were able to look inside of your cells and see your "good" enzymes increasing, your energy-producing mitochondria multiplying, your cholesterol falling, your arteries clearing, your blood vessels becoming more efficient, your muscles strengthening, your bone-density improving, and all of the remarkable changes that this program triggers, it would be clear that the scale and calipers are just insufficient ways of measuring success. As these internal changes become significant, your external progress accelerates. Some people just start out needing more internal changes than others, because of their prior lifestyle, long-term yo-yo dieting, and other factors. Please understand that if you're following the daily intensity and carefully limiting your portions, the progress is happening, whether it's obvious or not. I've just seen too many individual cases to think any different.

So don't force the numbers. They'll come. Here is your job today: adhere to a winning pattern of action that you know will produce results if you follow it consistently. That's all. And if you do that today, congratulate yourself as a winner. If instead, you insist on measuring your success by whether or not the scale or caliper show progress today, you're creating a game you can lose. In Steven Covey's words, you're putting yourself in the position of trying to manage consequences rather than actions. You'll never get a reliable sense of confidence that way. Look, you're following a program that works. Do troubleshoot. Do review your workouts, food choices, portion sizes, and meal plans. But make every day a game you can win.

Lastly, if you've been sedentary for a long time, your fat probably hasn't seen an ounce of circulation since high school. This causes your fat to turn thick and hard, or "blubbery" (yes, Scrabble fans, that is a word). Marine animals have this sort of fat deposit, called a "blubber lay". When you start working out consistently, some of you may find that your fat or cellulite becomes more like Jell-O initially. In whales (forgive me - this is not personal), increased activity also forces a change in circulation strategy so that there is increased blood flow near the body's surface. I suspect that this occurs in humans as well, so you may be a little "pink" for even hours after a good workout.






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[zrach]

Hi, I have a question!

I have been doing starting strength for a couple of months... should I still start at phase 1 of the book? Phase 1 focuses on higher reps... I'm used to 3 x 5 from starting strength.

[squeaks77]

Hi, I have a question!

I have been doing starting strength for a couple of months... should I still start at phase 1 of the book? Phase 1 focuses on higher reps... I'm used to 3 x 5 from starting strength.

It's still good to start at phase one. Especially since you've been doing 3x5 for awhile. The high-reps will shake your muscles up a bit (keeps 'em guessing). NROLFW uses lots of different rep ranges. Just make sure you always use a weight that challenges you for whatever the rep range is. Those high-rep sets are killer. I would WAY rather do a low-rep set. LOL!