The Official Power Rack Thread - August 2010 version

[donforeman]

Williams Strength responded to through eBay already. It looks like they are going to refund.

"I'm very sorry to hear that you are not happy with the rack. The damage caused by UPS is obviously out of my control. The "split" in the seam is purely a cosmetic flaw in the material...it is the reason the rack was sold at a deep discount. I will be issuing a refund ASAP. "

Seriously??? Though - I get a beat to hell rack that wasn't packed correctly to begin with compare the packing (Shrink wrap and four zip ties) with the actual boxes other companies like rogue ship with and the splits in the metal are only "cosmetic". For the $200 I saved over full list price I will take my chances elsewhere. Even in the my pictures you can see that the cracks are very deep and there are a lot of them on both sides. If they knew about the splits they sure should have taken a few pictures that showed them and not listed the rack as new. http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...Damaged%20rack

[Accutron]

Williams Strength responded to through eBay already. It looks like they are going to refund.

"I'm very sorry to hear that you are not happy with the rack. The damage caused by UPS is obviously out of my control. The "split" in the seam is purely a cosmetic flaw in the material...it is the reason the rack was sold at a deep discount. I will be issuing a refund ASAP. "

Seriously??? Though - I get a beat to hell rack that wasn't packed correctly to begin with compare the packing (Shrink wrap and four zip ties) with the actual boxes other companies like rogue ship with and the splits in the metal are only "cosmetic". For the $200 I saved over full list price I will take my chances elsewhere. Even in the my pictures you can see that the cracks are very deep and there are a lot of them on both sides. If they knew about the splits they sure should have taken a few pictures that showed them and not listed the rack as new. http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...Damaged%20rack

Yeah in my opinion thats kind of sneaky since your ad was listed as like new. They should be honest and descriptive in the listing:
"Factory second with a cracked frame and structural splitting on the tube"
or ideally you would be able to buy
"Factory demo from showroom with signs of wear on paint and feet"

Still I think WS would he happy to know if you impart to them again its an actual structural split. They can look into it, or get credit from the metal supplier or something.

Maybe they think it is just paint, who knows.

Ive never seen split metal tube like that before...but its really good vendor offered refund!

How far down do you think the split is into the metal?

[Accutron]

This is pretty bad packaging.

Lots of companies wrap each post with white foam sheet and cardboard and it takes over 1hr to wrap it. Still not 100% effective but it shows they do something to take care.

Plus you have to double-wrap the corners.

[Accutron]

For reference this is how a rack is shipped in a professional manner, but its wrapped by a smart person who cares about his work and takes pride - Scott Prosek, not a moron like at your WS rack factory LOL.

[donforeman]

Ive never seen split metal tube like that before...but its really good vendor offered refund!

How far down do you think the split is into the metal?

Its actually a very common failure. The tube is called ERW and its structural tubing. The split is caused by a failure at the steel plant not joining the metal correctly when its made. It would fail badly "as is" if the tube was stressed. On a rack I doubt I will stress it enough to matter, but for $725 I didn't pay for a damaged and cracked rack. The split on some of the cracks is at least 1/2 way through and there is a lot of them. What you normally do when this pops up in your steel is you return the stick to your supplier and they give you a usable one. You don't make in into a product, have it painted and then try to sell it on eBay as new without telling anyone, hoping the buyer is too stupid to notice the splits up both sides of the rack or wont say anything because of the lousy $200 you discounted it! EliteFTS had a sale on the same racks at the same time, and although their discount was not a good, I imagine (or hope) the rack did not come with the custom limited edition splits up both sides.

[Accutron]

You don't make in into a product, have it painted and then try to sell it on eBay as new without telling anyone, hoping the buyer is too stupid to notice the splits up both sides of the rack or wont say anything because of the lousy $200 you discounted it!

Yeah its too bad they let a bad rack out without mentioning the crack only to knock off $200, which is literally nothing in comparison to the time you use the rack (several years or decades) and pride of ownership from a premium USA made rack. Too bad and not ethical to list as new without mentioning it.

Are they going to take it back, do you have to repack it, and wait for the truck, thats kind of a hassle...

[donforeman]

Are they going to take it back, do you have to repack it, and wait for the truck, that's kind of a hassle...

I will do what ever I have to to be done with it. I will leave appropriate feed back and update this thread with the results. Others have complained about Williams Strength before, I just thought it was a deal and jumped in. To find out they knew about the cracks and sent the rack anyway without saying anything dumped their rep into the toilet in my book. I'm not bashing them to be mean, this thread is visited by a lot of people and hopefully they dont fall for the same crud I did. If I get my money back... then its just the hassle of buying some wrap, repacking and lost time. I can live with that and will research better before my next buy. I have heard good things about Legend and Rogue. I will do some searching to see what kind of packing they do. I did see a picture of a rogue rack on a pallet here. Real boxes and straps! Not shrink wrap and four zip ties!

[Iakovos]

I will do what ever I have to to be done with it. I will leave appropriate feed back and update this thread with the results. Others have complained about Williams Strength before, I just thought it was a deal and jumped in. To find out they knew about the cracks and sent the rack anyway without saying anything dumped their rep into the toilet in my book. I'm not bashing them to be mean, this thread is visited by a lot of people and hopefully they dont fall for the same crud I did. If I get my money back... then its just the hassle of buying some wrap, repacking and lost time. I can live with that and will research better before my next buy. I have heard good things about Legend and Rogue. I will do some searching to see what kind of packing they do. I did see a picture of a rogue rack on a pallet here. Real boxes and straps! Not shrink wrap and four zip ties!

It's not bashing them to state the truth.

Those cracks are ridiculous!

I'm very glad you're getting your money back.

[irongrandpa]

glad to hear they're offering a full refund without arguing about it. that's still a big disappointment to receive a product in that condition .

[donforeman]

glad to hear they're offering a full refund without arguing about it. that's still a big disappointment to receive a product in that condition .

I have a bad feeling they are going to try and blame it all on UPS. That would fit the personalty of a company who sells a defective rack as a "new" rack and gives it their extra special packing treatments of zip ties and shrink wrap. It was not even banded to the pallet.
From my eBay correspondence = "I tried to pack it extra well..It has a long journey." I specifically requested them to package it well because several purchasers had complained about "Williams Strength" Power racks arriving beat up.

If they try and run it through UPS as their fault - the refund could take months. The last damage claim I had though UPS took six weeks and that was approved. Obviously UPS should be smart enough that they know that a metal splits in a defective rack that's thrown on a pallet isn't their doing. That's just being a Dumb$hit customer service wise and a little shady too.

[Keetman]

I have a bad feeling they are going to try and blame it all on UPS. That would fit the personalty of a company who sells a defective rack as a "new" rack and gives it their extra special packing treatments of zip ties and shrink wrap. It was not even banded to the pallet.
From my eBay correspondence = "I tried to pack it extra well..It has a long journey." I specifically requested them to package it well because several purchasers had complained about "Williams Strength" Power racks arriving beat up.

If they try and run it through UPS as their fault - the refund could take months. The last damage claim I had though UPS took six weeks and that was approved. Obviously UPS should be smart enough that they know that a metal splits in a defective rack that's thrown on a pallet isn't their doing. That's just being a Dumb$hit customer service wise and a little shady too.

Hey Don....I have a couple of questions. One, you seem to know something about the steel and/or the industry....do you think that the rack as it is, is safe to use? Two, for the right amount of discount, would you consider keeping the rack?

I'm just wondering because I have an Elite rack and its a fantastic piece of equipment. If I thought it was safe, I wouldn't probably care about those splits. If I could get one for a deep discount that I believed was safe, I might be fine with it. If this is a possibility for you, I'm just wondering if you could get a bigger discount from them. I'd name my terms, don't get me wrong, but it might be worth it. They'd not have to pay for the shipping back, they don't eat the shipping to you, they don't have to process the return, and they don't have to try to resell it.....incurring yet more shipping costs. Seems like it would be beneficial for them to give you a substantial partial refund.

Don't read anything into this....I think those splits and the packaging are ridiculous, its just without me seeing them in person, its hard to tell if they are "manageable" or not. I do know the quality of these cages, in general, though and for the right money I could live with some issues. $200 is not the right money at all....I'm just wondering if they or you would be willing to start negotiating again.

Just some thoughts....regardless, this wasn't handled right and I hope you are made whole soon. Good luck.

[donforeman]

I really don't want the rack. I want it out of my garage ASAP and I would like to be back to where I started as I have nothing to hang a bar on at this point. I sold my Ironmaster the same day on CL not thinking this would be trouble. The rack could be definitely be fixed. I could remove the powder coating, then weld up the entire seam on both sides with a tig welder and have it re coated. That would make it almost 100%. I can do those repairs, and pay for the powder coat, but being a student again after 20 years - I don't have time. I could just build a rack in just about the same hassle as fixing this one, but I bought one and paid a pretty good price for pretty much garbage at this point. A little care would have gone a long way. From the response I got they knew about the cracks long before I bought the rack... so a few pictures on ebay would have saved them and me some big hassles. Someone that knew how to package a rack would have been nice, but in hindsight the rack should be stripped any way for re-welding. As is I would say without fixing it at all its probably as structurally sound as a cheaper rack, but if I wanted a cheap rack I could have just bought one without the scrapes and cracks and I bet it would have come boxed and everything.

edit: added a bunch of photos in a folder tagged "Williams strength" "power rack" http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...amaged%20rack/

[havenoego]

I've been looking to buy a rack when I move back home in a few months, and it looks like the one I want has gone up in price. Powerline PPR200X is now closer to $400 than $300 bones.

Is there an equivalent priced rack out there? My budget for the rack was right at $300, as I still need to pick up a fid bench, and some weights.

[matrix563]

I've been looking to buy a rack when I move back home in a few months, and it looks like the one I want has gone up in price. Powerline PPR200X is now closer to $400 than $300 bones.

Is there an equivalent priced rack out there? My budget for the rack was right at $300, as I still need to pick up a fid bench, and some weights.

this is about the same i think http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Powe...-SALE/24326980

[donforeman]

Hey Don....I have a couple of questions. One, you seem to know something about the steel and/or the industry....do you think that the rack as it is, is safe to use? Two, for the right amount of discount, would you consider keeping the rack?

Williams Strength seems to think I'm the one with the problem. They just offered a can of silver spray paint as a solution to the power racks problems instead of a refund. I have a feeling this is about to get ugly! I cant believe with the how unprofessional this whole thing is going from start to finish that others have not had big problems, but maybe I'm just lucky. Now they have change their refund stipulation (...if I don't want the spray paint... "rolls eyes") from refunding me ASAP to they will refund only after UPS picks the rack up. That's really fine with me as long as they don't play more games.

[Keetman]

Williams Strength seems to think I'm the one with the problem. They just offered a can of silver spray paint as a solution to the power racks problems instead of a refund. I have a feeling this is about to get ugly! I cant believe with the how unprofessional this whole thing is going from start to finish that others have not had big problems, but maybe I'm just lucky. Now they have change their refund stipulation (...if I don't want the spray paint... "rolls eyes") from refunding me ASAP to they will refund only after UPS picks the rack up. That's really fine with me as long as they don't play more games.

Not sure why you quoted me, I wasn't trying to defend them......just saying that for a steep discount it might be worth keeping the rack. Since you absolutely have no desire to keep the rack, then I don't blame you for wanting to get rid of it. What they are offering now is ridiculous. I don't really have any suggestions though, its going to probably be a fight for you. I haven't seen too many people deal directly with Williams, but if this is how they handle problems....I wouldn't advise it in the future. My Elite rack is made by them and its flawless, so they do make good stuff. I also think a member here (Darkfact maybe?) had a lot of problems with his Elite cage and they went out of their way to make it right with several deliveries. Of course, this was Elite, not Williams.

I would suggest using all the resources available to you via paypal and ebay.....and do so in a timely manner. I had a dealing on ebay last year that got drug out past their time limits and paypal pretty much told me to kiss their ass and they were now dealing on behalf of the seller since I'd waited so long.....even thought that was the nature of the type of purchase I'd made. Fortunately, I'd done my homework and expected troubles....so I used the chargeback feature of the credit card I'd funded the purchase with through paypal. I won in the end.....chargeback went through, purchase was finished, seller finally did what they were supposed to do, and all was well. None of it started getting taken care of until I'd taken the money back though.

Just calm down, start jumping through hoops, and do everything you're supposed to via ebay & paypal. I know this is frustrating, but if you get too mad and don't follow all the procedures correctly.....it will only make it a bigger pain in the ass. I can't see how ebay will do anything but side with you, so while it might take some time....you're probably going to be fine. Oh....save all the correspondence from Williams too, in case you need to show what has transpired.

[donforeman]

You took it wrong - I was just saying not only were they not offering to discount, they had the nuts to offer a can of paint as if that would fix it that's all. When I got that message on ebay I was pretty angry, so sorry if that some how spilled into the post. It was not intentionally directed at you. Thanks for the advice! I did pay with a credit card.

[Keetman]

You took it wrong - I was just saying they not only were they not offering to discount, they had the nuts to offer a can of paint as if that would fix it that's all. When I got that message on ebay I was pretty angry, so sorry if that some how spilled into the post. It was not intentionally directed at you. Thanks for the advice! I did pay with a credit card.

You're good, I didn't think you were upset with me, I just didn't understand quoting me. You definitely seem mad though, and while I certainly understand why, just try to be calm and patient when dealing with ebay/paypal (they're the same company). They have time limits and rigid rules that you'll need to follow in order to get their help.


On their offer of giving you a spray can..... its almost insulting, tbh. Like I said before, I can't necessarily tell from the pics whether or not I'd be happy with the rack (probably not)...but I can definitely see large cracks, splits, or some sort of material failure. Telling you "too bad" would make more sense than offering to have you paint a hole. They have obviously decided they don't want to help you. I don't normally like ebay negs....but I'd say they've earned theirs. There are two schools of thought on this....one, neg them at the end so they don't get mad and stop any sort of help and two, neg them now so they are prompted to help and then "MAYBE" you'll revise the neg once you're whole and happy.

Good luck, this really sucks for you. Nothing good.... you thought you were getting a cool rack, you now have crap and a big pita, and you don't have your original equipment. Sorry.

Oh....it might be time to start your own thread on this. It will get more hits and this is starting to be a bit of a hijack.

[davidoff1974]

Any reviews on the atlantis power rack C409?

[weisgarb]

Any reviews on the atlantis power rack C409?

Are you looking to get one for yourself or for a gym? The rack is 9' tall, uses 7-gauge steel, and weighs over 600 pounds . . . It doesn't strike me as a home unit.

The hole spacing is 4", which limits its use for benching.

[davidoff1974]

Are you looking to get one for yourself or for a gym? The rack is 9' tall, uses 7-gauge steel, and weighs over 600 pounds . . . It doesn't strike me as a home unit.

The hole spacing is 4", which limits its use for benching.

This is for a home gym. Thanks for the input, but looks like this isn't for me.

[donforeman]

Some good news! My PayPal payment was refunded in full - including shipping and the defective Williams Strength rack is now on its way back to SC. Thank again to Keetman, Accutron and others for the advice. The seller ask that I take down the incriminating photos and stop putting down Williams Strength. Considering I am only out time and some hassle, that seems fair.

[irongrandpa]

Some good news! My PayPal payment was refunded in full - including shipping and the defective Williams Strength rack is now on its way back to SC. Thank again to Keetman, Accutron and others for the advice. The seller ask that I take down the incriminating photos and stop putting down Williams Strength. Considering I am only out time and some hassle, that seems fair.

['m glad you got this resolved! what rack are you getting now?

[donforeman]

I'm seriously thinking about the Legend Fitness 2x2 economy rack. I will start looking in a few days when I have more time.

[donforeman]

The legend economy rack is very nice and the people that work there are great. unfortunately they even admit that they need help when it comes to rates for cross county shipments. The shipping alone was more than $450. So that and the 10 week wait, put the stop on that one. I looked at Rogue... nice stuff, but in a the bedroom with carpet their basic rack requires a bolt down to floor or platform and my budget was getting stretched even further. So I did something maybe foolish. I decided to cut back to a lower quality rack. I looked at the threads here on my lunch and looked for something that wasn't horrible, that would do to get something to set a bar on (after selling my Ironmaster when I first bought the WS rack). Something that wouldn't add even more to the credit card debt. I ended up in contact with Matt at fitness factory as there was nothing but good about the way they do business that I could find. He made me an unbelievable deal on a brand new, but very average GPR378 Body Solid 3" rack. Its not great, but I had enough left over on from the Jackson Plates I resold on eBay last month to cover it without carrying any cost on the card.

[twodog]

The legend economy rack is very nice and the people that work there are great. unfortunately they even admit that they need help when it comes to rates for cross county shipments. The shipping alone was more than $450. So that and the 10 week wait, put the stop on that one. I looked at Rogue... nice stuff, but in a the bedroom with carpet their basic rack requires a bolt down to floor or platform and my budget was getting stretched even further. So I did something maybe foolish. I decided to cut back to a lower quality rack. I looked at the threads here on my lunch and looked for something that wasn't horrible, that would do to get something to set a bar on (after selling my Ironmaster when I first bought the WS rack). Something that wouldn't add even more to the credit card debt. I ended up in contact with Matt at fitness factory as there was nothing but good about the way they do business that I could find. He made me an unbelievable deal on a brand new, but very average GPR378 Body Solid 3" rack. Its not great, but I had enough left over on from the Jackson Plates I resold on eBay last month to cover it without carrying any cost on the card.

Congrats Don ! I'm sure that you'll be happy with the GPR378, and it's great that Richard Sorinex is paying for it .

[Accutron]

I ended up in contact with Matt at fitness factory as there was nothing but good about the way they do business that I could find. He made me an unbelievable deal on a brand new, but very average GPR378 Body Solid 3" rack. Its not great, but I had enough left over on from the Jackson Plates I resold on eBay last month to cover it without carrying any cost on the card.

Wow, very nice new rack enjoy! Im glad the other company gave you a full refund.

I tried to erase my posts talking about the WS but could not find the edit feature, so I hope its okay that the bad pics are I quoted are still there.

A rack like the BodySolid is great - if I had to keep my Powertec for the rest of my life I wouldn't mind.

Enjoy the new rack!

[Keetman]

....so I hope its okay that the bad pics are I quoted are still there.....

Are you using a hosting site for the pics? If you are, you could always rename them on the site and the links will be broken. If you're hosting them here (which I'm still not sure how that works) I don't know if you can break the link.

[Accutron]

Are you using a hosting site for the pics? If you are, you could always rename them on the site and the links will be broken. If you're hosting them here (which I'm still not sure how that works) I don't know if you can break the link.

Other than the written text, I just quoted don foreman so he has the pics hosting info. Its good that the Ebay seller took the rack back with shipping too.

[Northernmoris]

Congrats Don ! I'm sure that you'll be happy with the GPR378, and it's great that Richard Sorinex is paying for it .

Now that's some funny chit.