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  1. #1
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    Why is Nelson Mandela so revered, celebrated and decorated???

    I wouldn't expect Osama Bin Laden to be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize and hundreds of other awards and honors, nor would I expect a racialist like Jesse Jackson or David Duke to be adorned with such honors so why is Mandela leader of terrorist group ANC who killed hundreds of innocent civilians and his necklacing murderer of a wife Winnie looked at with such respect?

    Is this respect for his role in destroying South Africa's economy and creating the highest murder rate in the world? Is it for creating a society which welcomes the genocide of it's white population? If not what is it for?

    A little about Mandela:

    * The full list of munitions and charges read as follows:

    • One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;

    • One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

    • Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

    1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

    (a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives—for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

    (b) the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;

    (ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

    (iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

    (iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

    (v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:


    (a) the health or safety of the public;
    (b) the maintenance of law and order;

    (c) the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;
    (d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;
    (e) the free movement of traffic on land; and
    (f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

    Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.





    If you want to know more about ANC then there are plenty of resources detailing their violent terrorist acts. Look into their rallying cry "shaya ma buru" which essentially translates to mean "kill the boer/kill the white man".
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    lol, in on troll thread
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    I too would like to know this. (srs)
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    Why are our founding fathers revered as heroes?

    -Wanted by the British was criminals and rebels

    -Murdered British officers, went to their homes and took them in their sleep

    -Attacked convoys in Guerrilla style warfare where civilians were killed

    -Traitors to the British government

    -Responsible of thousands of deaths

    -Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Monarchy

    -Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Monarchy, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

    (a) the health or safety of the public;
    (b) the maintenance of law and order;

    (c) the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;
    (d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;
    (e) the free movement of traffic on land; and
    (f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.



    LOL, ALL of these apply to ours founders.

    Whats important it WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISHED.
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  5. #5
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    He represents the black mans struggle to wipe the White devil from Africa.
    owe

    .
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    Originally Posted by farquezy View Post
    LOL, ALL of these apply to ours founders.

    Whats important it WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISHED.
    What's important is that they accomplished great improvement in life in America.
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    Smaller, Stronger, Faster gjohnson5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Duckenheimer View Post
    What's important is that they accomplished great improvement in life in America.
    I'm sure the people who were living under aparthied laws feel alot better as well.
    Kickin your azz everytime
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    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    I'm sure the people who were living under aparthied laws feel alot better as well.
    Apartheid ending is a good thing, how much better is the overall quality of life for black people in SA now?
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    the end justify the means i guess
    "If you immediately know the candle light is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago"
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    Smaller, Stronger, Faster gjohnson5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Duckenheimer View Post
    Apartheid ending is a good thing, how much better is the overall quality of life for black people in SA now?
    ?????

    Is that really in debate?

    http://www.topix.com/forum/world/sou...N0QGPFJ9O3M667

    Max Coleman's authoritative book analyses all deaths due to political violence from 1948 to 1994 in South Africa and Namibia.
    According to the HRC statistics, 21,000 people died in political violence in South Africa during apartheid - of whom 14,000 people died during the six-year transition process from 1990 to 1994. The book lists the number of incidents, dates, and those involved.
    Kickin your azz everytime
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  11. #11
    Registered User Stevelegh's Avatar
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    My Dad (born 1929) used to ask the same question. He was around for Mandela's imprisonment and always said it was justified because he wouldn't renounce violence, but when you look at America, it was founded by rebels wanting freedom from British rule.

    Yes, it is interesting to look at the world and think in 20 years Bin Laden may be a hero.

    Modern example: Look at Arafat.

    It is very very strange.........
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    Originally Posted by Stevelegh View Post
    My Dad (born 1929) used to ask the same question. He was around for Mandela's imprisonment and always said it was justified because he wouldn't renounce violence, but when you look at America, it was founded by rebels wanting freedom from British rule.

    Yes, it is interesting to look at the world and think in 20 years Bin Laden may be a hero.

    Modern example: Look at Arafat.

    It is very very strange.........
    Ya interesting thoughts. Almost all the "heroes" that we as Americans came to idolize have dirty blood on their hands.

    I remember watching the history channel a while back talking about the allied bombings against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in WW2. We would fire bomb German/Japanese cities and military positions round the clock, all day everyday. Those fire bombs literally suck out all the oxygen in an area causing human implosion and the worst and most horrific death known to man...
    "If you immediately know the candle light is fire, then the meal was cooked a long time ago"
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    Originally Posted by blockmonkey View Post
    He represents the black mans struggle to wipe the White devil from Africa.


    As far as I'm concerned, the black man can have the AIDS-infested sh!thole that is Africa.
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    Originally Posted by Captain Harris View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, the black man can have the AIDS-infested sh!thole that is Africa.
    This post certainly isn't surprising
    Kickin your azz everytime
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    Originally Posted by r0gue6 View Post
    lol, in on troll thread
    You got it :rollseyes:, it's nothing but a racist troll thread.

    Originally Posted by farquezy View Post
    Why are our founding fathers revered as heroes?

    -Wanted by the British was criminals and rebels

    -Murdered British officers, went to their homes and took them in their sleep

    -Attacked convoys in Guerrilla style warfare where civilians were killed

    -Traitors to the British government

    -Responsible of thousands of deaths

    -Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Monarchy

    -Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Monarchy, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:

    (a) the health or safety of the public;
    (b) the maintenance of law and order;

    (c) the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;
    (d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;
    (e) the free movement of traffic on land; and
    (f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.

    LOL, ALL of these apply to ours founders.

    Whats important it WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISHED.
    Interesting, I appreciate this explanation and it makes sense but whilst he did end apartheid it is not as if quality of life is any better, there is not any more jobs or opportunity for black or white people there but there is a hell of a lot more crime.

    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    ?????

    Is that really in debate?

    http://www.topix.com/forum/world/sou...N0QGPFJ9O3M667

    Max Coleman's authoritative book analyses all deaths due to political violence from 1948 to 1994 in South Africa and Namibia.
    According to the HRC statistics, 21,000 people died in political violence in South Africa during apartheid - of whom 14,000 people died during the six-year transition process from 1990 to 1994. The book lists the number of incidents, dates, and those involved.
    Look, you are a moron so 35,000 people died over many years in apartheid according to your stats. I agree this is bad but if you are trying to use this set of stats as proof quality of life has gotten better in South Africa but it hasn't. The murder rate there hovers between 50 and 40 murders per 100,000 people which for a population of 50m people equates to 22,500 murders per year. There current annual murder rates make your stats for years of apartheid look very tame.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ide_rate#2000s


    Maybe when you say things are much better you are forgetting about the thousands of murders of white farming families each year which the government and police forces in South Africa turn a blind eye too and almost seem to sanction. You are probably also forgetting that the ANC has policies which essentially steal land from white owners and give to blacks. Maybe you are forgetting their president Jacob Zuma happily sings and supports the song 'kill the boer'.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-farmers.html

    Or maybe you just don't care because you are an apologist and think every white man is evil. Even if you don't care however it doesn't change the fact that things are no better in South Africa unless you consider higher murder rates and government sanctioned theft and murder to be better.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/pr...ca_ralfe.shtml



    I mean South Africa is a country lead by politicians (eg Charles Nqakula) who tell the hard working white farmers to stop whinging or leave rather than taking action to stop the thousands murdered and terrorised each year and you think things are better:
    Last edited by LP670SV; 07-31-2010 at 11:25 PM.
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    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    ?????

    Is that really in debate?

    http://www.topix.com/forum/world/sou...N0QGPFJ9O3M667

    Max Coleman's authoritative book analyses all deaths due to political violence from 1948 to 1994 in South Africa and Namibia.
    According to the HRC statistics, 21,000 people died in political violence in South Africa during apartheid - of whom 14,000 people died during the six-year transition process from 1990 to 1994. The book lists the number of incidents, dates, and those involved.
    ????

    That is not a response to my question at all. My question was:

    Apartheid ending is a good thing, how much better is the overall quality of life for black people in SA now?
    Perhaps you wrote that response to somebody else.
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    This forum and Storm-front are the only places in the whole world the little remnants of Apartheid can even dare to speak.
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    Question

    Originally Posted by rocker1 View Post
    This forum and Storm-front are the only places in the whole world the little remnants of Apartheid can even dare to speak.
    Where are the remnants of Apartheid daring to speak in this thread?
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    Originally Posted by Duckenheimer View Post
    Where are the remnants of Apartheid daring to speak in this thread?
    This is akin to asking if the sky is blue or not.
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    Originally Posted by rocker1 View Post
    This is akin to asking if the sky is blue or not.
    Except it's not a yes/no question. Either you can point them out, or you can't. So where are they? Point them out please.
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    Originally Posted by rocker1 View Post
    This forum and Storm-front are the only places in the whole world the little remnants of Apartheid can even dare to speak.
    Was gonna reply and then I realised this post was made by the racist troll rocker1.
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    Originally Posted by Duckenheimer View Post
    Except it's not a yes/no question. Either you can point them out, or you can't. So where are they? Point them out please.
    The op is an apartheid remnant. The one whose location is U.K is a remnant of the apartheid criminals who fled to UK and Australia. The one who said his father "asks" the same question all the time is an apartheid remnant, and etc.

    Frankly, if it wasn't for Nelson Mandela and his truth and reconciliation a Nuremburg trial would have ensued with the full blessing of even Europe in which the fathers of the remnants here would be held accountable for the past. Having went to South Africa last summer as part of a study abroad group, I know enough about that country and even the sentiment of the whites there to know the respect Nelson Mandela deserves. He singlehandedly led an aggrieved people to forgive and as he ages and eventually passes, I believe the world will understand even more the special nature of the man when the overwhelming majority of South African blacks start demanding the full justice for the past they are otherwise not calling for now out of respect to Nelson Mandela.
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    Originally Posted by rocker1 View Post
    The op is an apartheid remnant. The one whose location is U.K is a remnant of the apartheid criminals who fled to UK and Australia. The one who said his father "asks" the same question all the time is an apartheid remnant, and etc.

    Frankly, if it wasn't for Nelson Mandela and his truth and reconciliation a Nuremburg trial would have ensued with the full blessing of even Europe in which the fathers of the remnants here would be held accountable for the past. Having went to South Africa last summer as part of a study abroad group, I know enough about that country and even the sentiment of the whites there to know the respect Nelson Mandela deserves. He singlehandedly led an aggrieved people to forgive and as he ages and eventually passes, I believe the world will understand even more the special nature of the man when the overwhelming majority of South African blacks start demanding the full justice for the past they are otherwise not calling for now out of respect to Nelson Mandela.
    And things are great now, right?
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    And things are great now, right?
    Sadly, no. Large parts of Johannesburg have/are turning into third-world slums.

    It's what happens when you tear down an institution and replace it with... nothing. Even if that institution is as reprehensible as apartheid.
    So much universe, so little time.
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    OP people aren't providing you with real debate because this is a stupid topic.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    And things are great now, right?
    So you see nothing wrong with a country where 80% of the population are treated as inferiors to the other 20% purely because of the colour of their skin?

    SA is not perfect right now, not at all. But the fact that Brian Habana can play rugby for SA is good enough reason for me.
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    Originally Posted by LP670SV View Post
    You got it :rollseyes:, it's nothing but a racist troll thread.



    Interesting, I appreciate this explanation and it makes sense but whilst he did end apartheid it is not as if quality of life is any better, there is not any more jobs or opportunity for black or white people there but there is a hell of a lot more crime.



    Look, you are a moron so 35,000 people died over many years in apartheid according to your stats. I agree this is bad but if you are trying to use this set of stats as proof quality of life has gotten better in South Africa but it hasn't. The murder rate there hovers between 50 and 40 murders per 100,000 people which for a population of 50m people equates to 22,500 murders per year. There current annual murder rates make your stats for years of apartheid look very tame.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ide_rate#2000s
    The murder rate is high. Does that mean that everyone's standard of living has dropped?
    Does that means that there were no murders during apartheid EXCEPT for the political action mentioned?
    You need to get your facts correct before making ignorant conclusions

    I don't have the whole story on the racial and non racial violence of South Africa and it's clear all is NOT well. To just assume that standards of living have dropped due to the dissolution or apartheid is beyond asinine

    *edit*
    I certainly don't see how ones standard of living can drop from being the target of genocide.....
    There are way to make yourself less of a target from random acts of violence
    *edit*
    Last edited by gjohnson5; 08-01-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Duckenheimer View Post
    ????

    That is not a response to my question at all. My question was:



    Perhaps you wrote that response to somebody else.
    I'm gonna be alot nicer to you then the last guy despite your obvious backtracking.
    If you choose to hold the standpoint that things haven't gotten better in South Africa for many people , then man up and say that instead of beating around the bush.

    I don't have a 100% picture of the SA social situation and it could be that things have gotten worse for some due to the dissolution of Aparthied. Maybe for many. But I would hope that you would post that point of view (or some facts of that) and not base that entirely on the murder rate. Personally new orleans (where I come from) also has a very high per capita murder rate. That doesn't mean that EVERYONE in the town lives in low standards. Obviously alot did and still do.

    It's a strawman argument at best
    Last edited by gjohnson5; 08-01-2010 at 11:28 AM.
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    The OP is a Stormfront troll. Not sure why anyone is taking the troll seriously...
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    Originally Posted by The Experiment View Post
    The OP is a Stormfront troll. Not sure why anyone is taking the troll seriously...
    I don't post on St0rmfr0nt so I wouldn't know......
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