Lowest amount of calories you can take in before losing muscle?

[allofthisforyou]

Does anyone know what lowest amount of calories you can consitently "run off of" before losing appreciable amounts of muscle mass? Does this vary per person and with your daily caloric expenditure?

I've read that about 100g of carbs per day is necessary in order to prevent ketosis, and remember reading somewhere that 1000 Calories daily is "too low" for most people (i.e. your body starts relying on muscle tissue for fuel), though I haven't been able to find that figure again. 1000 seems reasonable for a sedentary individual but I'm thinking someone using 4000 Calories/day would need at least about 2000 Calories + roughly 200 g of carbs to minimize muscle tissue catabolism (not to mention restore muscle glycogen).

Any thoughts/information would be greatly appreciated.
-A

[askthetrainer]

Does anyone know what lowest amount of calories you can consitently "run off of" before losing appreciable amounts of muscle mass? Does this vary per person and with your daily caloric expenditure?

I've read that about 100g of carbs per day is necessary in order to prevent ketosis, and remember reading somewhere that 1000 Calories daily is "too low" for most people (i.e. your body starts relying on muscle tissue for fuel), though I haven't been able to find that figure again. 1000 seems reasonable for a sedentary individual but I'm thinking someone using 4000 Calories/day would need at least about 2000 Calories + roughly 200 g of carbs to minimize muscle tissue catabolism (not to mention restore muscle glycogen).

Any thoughts/information would be greatly appreciated.
-A

LULZ I recommend posting this in the bro Science section of the forum brah SRS

[Exa123]

Does anyone know what lowest amount of calories you can consitently "run off of" before losing appreciable amounts of muscle mass? Does this vary per person and with your daily caloric expenditure?

I've read that about 100g of carbs per day is necessary in order to prevent ketosis, and remember reading somewhere that 1000 Calories daily is "too low" for most people (i.e. your body starts relying on muscle tissue for fuel), though I haven't been able to find that figure again. 1000 seems reasonable for a sedentary individual but I'm thinking someone using 4000 Calories/day would need at least about 2000 Calories + roughly 200 g of carbs to minimize muscle tissue catabolism (not to mention restore muscle glycogen).

Any thoughts/information would be greatly appreciated.
-A

There is simply no "one size fits all" figure! Everybody is different as someone could possibly not lose muscle at say 1500 cals where as someone would need more like 2200 cals before they start to really deplete and tap into muscle. It all depends on the individual metabolism for one, the macro breakdown they are on for two and thirdly how much cardio they are doing in addition to this.

So bottom line answer is.....it just depends.

[allofthisforyou]

There is simply no "one size fits all" figure!

Didn't think so...

deplete and tap into muscle.

Deplete glycogen stores, yes??


Just asking 'cause I had an obese client interested in "The Biggest Loser" type results... I stressed the "slow and steady" approach (~1% of body weight per week), but it's had me wondering about the possibilities -- e.g. would getting an unemployed client using 4000+ calories 4-6x/week (after developing adequate conditioning), and only taking in 2000-2500, give those kinds of results? Theoretically it should -- as far as I know -- as long as glycogen levels are "topped off," a balanced diet is consumed, and a good multivitamin is taken... Just wondering if anyone has experience with this type of thing though.

Thnx again,
-A

[pumplikeeecummings]

It actually depends on the person and how much bodyfat they have. An obese person can easily lose 3+pounds per week. Someone who is of average bf (17% for men and 24% for women) start off losing 2 lbs a week and it slows. The leaner you are, the harder its gonna be to keep losing. To be as safe as you can possibly be, I recomend 500 calorie deficit for normal people. Losing 1 lb of fat a week allows you to gain muscle still, the more the calorie deficit, the greater chance of losing muscle. If someone was to go on a 1000 calorie deficit a day, not only is it unhealthy (once again unless your obese this won't apply to you) but you will be noticeably hungry ALL THE TIME. The trick is to eat enough, but not so much that you get stuffed. As for carb intake, it differs. You can tell that your low on carbs quite easily by your brain. If your feeling cranky, moody, lethargic, and lazy in the head (hard to concentrate) your too low on carbs. Don't put numbers on it cause our bodies don't need the same amount of calories carbs or protein everyday in the same amount. Once you make it more natural in listening to your body, your results skyrocket. Counting anything (calories/carbs) gets tedeous, and can be counter productive. Just get a feel for portion sizes.

[Exa123]

Deplete glycogen stores, yes??

Yes deplete glycogen, if that happens then the body to an extreme point (think super low carb and doing ALOT of high intensity cardio for a long duration) then the body will start to convert aminos to glucose via Gluconeogenesis....not what you want.

Just asking 'cause I had an obese client interested in "The Biggest Loser" type results... I stressed the "slow and steady" approach (~1% of body weight per week), but it's had me wondering about the possibilities -- e.g. would getting an unemployed client using 4000+ calories 4-6x/week (after developing adequate conditioning), and only taking in 2000-2500, give those kinds of results? Theoretically it should -- as far as I know -- as long as glycogen levels are "topped off," a balanced diet is consumed, and a good multivitamin is taken... Just wondering if anyone has experience with this type of thing though.Thnx again,
-A

If the client is obese then that changes things a little and can get away with a larger calorie deficit seeing as thought there is alot of bodyfat on them. Theoretically that calorie range should be fine but i wouldnt be concerned with glycogen levels being "topped off" on obese clients. In my opinion its only when they become very lean or hitting under their bodyfat set point that this will be an issue.

The carbohyrdate amount will vary from person to person, rememeber the more carbs you have to mroe carbs you burn; the less carbs you have the more fat you burn. Now this doesnt mean going super low or no carb but just be aware that when carbs are in the system the body is using that glucose.

Here ya go mate read this (and a few more articles on the website) this should answer alot of your questions.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...-or-large.html

It actually depends on the person and how much bodyfat they have. An obese person can easily lose 3+pounds per week. Someone who is of average bf (17% for men and 24% for women) start off losing 2 lbs a week and it slows. The leaner you are, the harder its gonna be to keep losing. To be as safe as you can possibly be, I recomend 500 calorie deficit for normal people. Losing 1 lb of fat a week allows you to gain muscle still, the more the calorie deficit, the greater chance of losing muscle. If someone was to go on a 1000 calorie deficit a day, not only is it unhealthy (once again unless your obese this won't apply to you) but you will be noticeably hungry ALL THE TIME. The trick is to eat enough, but not so much that you get stuffed. As for carb intake, it differs. You can tell that your low on carbs quite easily by your brain. If your feeling cranky, moody, lethargic, and lazy in the head (hard to concentrate) your too low on carbs. Don't put numbers on it cause our bodies don't need the same amount of calories carbs or protein everyday in the same amount. Once you make it more natural in listening to your body, your results skyrocket. Counting anything (calories/carbs) gets tedeous, and can be counter productive. Just get a feel for portion sizes.

But what happens when someone stalls and you have no idea how MUCH they are eating? How do you make and adjustment when there are a tonne of variables unnacounted for? If you have macro numbers and hit them day in day out (and its not as tedious as people make out) then you know where to pull some more calories from and or add some more cardio.

You can either create a deficit by calories or cardio OR a little of both

[pumplikeeecummings]

Yes deplete glycogen, if that happens then the body to an extreme point (think super low carb and doing ALOT of high intensity cardio for a long duration) then the body will start to convert aminos to glucose via Gluconeogenesis....not what you want.



If the client is obese then that changes things a little and can get away with a larger calorie deficit seeing as thought there is alot of bodyfat on them. Theoretically that calorie range should be fine but i wouldnt be concerned with glycogen levels being "topped off" on obese clients. In my opinion its only when they become very lean or hitting under their bodyfat set point that this will be an issue.

The carbohyrdate amount will vary from person to person, rememeber the more carbs you have to mroe carbs you burn; the less carbs you have the more fat you burn. Now this doesnt mean going super low or no carb but just be aware that when carbs are in the system the body is using that glucose.

Here ya go mate read this (and a few more articles on the website) this should answer alot of your questions.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...-or-large.html



But what happens when someone stalls and you have no idea how MUCH they are eating? How do you make and adjustment when there are a tonne of variables unnacounted for? If you have macro numbers and hit them day in day out (and its not as tedious as people make out) then you know where to pull some more calories from and or add some more cardio.

You can either create a deficit by calories or cardio OR a little of both

meal 1: frosted mini wheats with 2 glasses of milk
meal 2: 2 bags of almods each at 100 cals
meal 3: turkey sandwhich with onions ketchup and mustard
meal 4: 2 slices of what toast with half pound of beef brisket

I know exactly when I ate these meals, and I can calculate appx how many calories/protein/carbs are in each. As you can see, it comes second nature to me. I didn't have to look at a pad with unnecessary info on it...I used my brain, and I learned portion sizes. Also, I usually eat carbs when I need them. If I am training that day, I eat carbs, if not I eat enough to let my brain function. Its natural, a calorie is a calorie, make sure that your at least eating as much protein you need to eat, carbs are determined by your goal for that day. Twice as much carbs if your training that day and trying to gain muscle, same amount as protein if your losing fat, less that the amount of protein your eating when you are 10% bodyfat or less and trying to get shredded.

[Exa123]

meal 1: frosted mini wheats with 2 glasses of milk
meal 2: 2 bags of almods each at 100 cals
meal 3: turkey sandwhich with onions ketchup and mustard
meal 4: 2 slices of what toast with half pound of beef brisket

I know exactly when I ate these meals, and I can calculate appx how many calories/protein/carbs are in each. As you can see, it comes second nature to me. I didn't have to look at a pad with unnecessary info on it...I used my brain, and I learned portion sizes. Also, I usually eat carbs when I need them. If I am training that day, I eat carbs, if not I eat enough to let my brain function. Its natural, a calorie is a calorie, make sure that your at least eating as much protein you need to eat, carbs are determined by your goal for that day. Twice as much carbs if your training that day and trying to gain muscle, same amount as protein if your losing fat, less that the amount of protein your eating when you are 10% bodyfat or less and trying to get shredded.

Im not going to argue with you mate as you seem deadset that your way is the only way. There are so many holes in your post but i wont point them out (short on time) but i will say....never give someone nutritional or exercise advice "because it works for me bro"

Thats lazy and ingnorant to think that one size fits all. This is NOT an attack on you personally thought mate just how you've come across in your posts. Nothing personal

[pumplikeeecummings]

Im not going to argue with you mate as you seem deadset that your way is the only way. There are so many holes in your post but i wont point them out (short on time) but i will say....never give someone nutritional or exercise advice "because it works for me bro"

Thats lazy and ingnorant to think that one size fits all. This is NOT an attack on you personally thought mate just how you've come across in your posts. Nothing personal

Never said my way was the only way, just the most practical. My body responds better to carbs, but I would love to hear whats the holes your talking about. If you say veggies and vitamins....I would agree, but It works for my body, never said to eat a **** ton of carbs like me....did I

[popupwindow]

Just asking 'cause I had an obese client interested in "The Biggest Loser" type results...

Tell them they need to quit their job for 6 months, train with you 8 hours a day, hire a personal chef and then you can offer them Biggest Loser results. Furthermore, in the tradition of biggest loser results, remind them that once they resume their job, go back to the real world, don't exercise 8 hours a day, they can quickly expect to regain all the weight they lost, with a few extra lbs for good measure.[/sarcasm]

Don't drastically cut their calories, they'll see good progress with better quality food, slightly smaller portion sizes and more exercise. When that stops working, refine the diet a bit further, up the intensity and continue, and keep doing that. Continually remind them that you're helping them to form lifelong habits to maintain a healthy weight, not just drop the fat then go back to how they were before.

[allofthisforyou]

Wow, so many great responses! Thanks so much guys! Going to read these all later, as it's bedtime now

Thanks especially for that bodyrecomp. link!

Tell them they need to quit their job for 6 months, train with you 8 hours a day, hire a personal chef and then you can offer them Biggest Loser results.

Haha, for sure. That's why I asked "would getting an unemployed client using 4000+ calories ..."

[weaponxxxvi]

Tell them they need to quit their job for 6 months, train with you 8 hours a day, hire a personal chef and then you can offer them Biggest Loser results. Furthermore, in the tradition of biggest loser results, remind them that once they resume their job, go back to the real world, don't exercise 8 hours a day, they can quickly expect to regain all the weight they lost, with a few extra lbs for good measure.[/sarcasm]

Don't drastically cut their calories, they'll see good progress with better quality food, slightly smaller portion sizes and more exercise. When that stops working, refine the diet a bit further, up the intensity and continue, and keep doing that. Continually remind them that you're helping them to form lifelong habits to maintain a healthy weight, not just drop the fat then go back to how they were before.

you hit the nail on the head. have a coupla of clients that are die hard fans of the show. they are always saying they want to lose fat as fast as they do on the show. i always tell them to quit their normal lives for a few weeks and train with me all day long and eat like a rabbit.

[odin673]

Just asking 'cause I had an obese client interested in "The Biggest Loser" type results... I stressed the "slow and steady" approach (~1% of body weight per week), but it's had me wondering about the possibilities -- e.g. would getting an unemployed client using 4000+ calories 4-6x/week (after developing adequate conditioning), and only taking in 2000-2500, give those kinds of results? Theoretically it should -- as far as I know -- as long as glycogen levels are "topped off," a balanced diet is consumed, and a good multivitamin is taken... Just wondering if anyone has experience with this type of thing though.

Thnx again,
-A

For the obese, most of the weight loss is fat. Look up the Minnesota Semi-Starvation Experiment. The lower your % body fat, the more you have to worry about losing muscle. Your client should be fine on a bigger deficit for a while.

[BSCSCS]

you hit the nail on the head. have a coupla of clients that are die hard fans of the show. they are always saying they want to lose fat as fast as they do on the show. i always tell them to quit their normal lives for a few weeks and train with me all day long and eat like a rabbit.

Don't forget about severe dehydration before they weigh in!

[weaponxxxvi]

Don't forget about severe dehydration before they weigh in!

lmao