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  1. #1
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    Olympics lifts for hypertrophy?

    Anyone do olympic lifts for BB, or think its a good idea to include them?
    If so, which ones should i try, and what would be a good set/rep scheme (since ive never done OL and dont know much about them). is there a certain way of doing them to emphasize muscle mass, or does OL'ing in general just increase mass?

    And i think many OL involve lots of shoulder/traps so should i do them on shoulder day?
    I'm on shoulders/back/chest split.
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    Registered User asdf89's Avatar
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    in general oly lifts are more focused on getting the weight into position properly with technique and form not necessarily HT.. its going to increase your mass in general becaue you are using alot of muscles in one lift...like deadlifts for instance..but they aren't generally part of an HST type routine..oly lift like snatch and clean/press emphasize finesse...technique and practice ....over hypertrophy...

    edit: just to add watch some oly lifting videos and youll see what i mean and these guys generally arent very big but strong

    the statement i made was very generalized and im sure it could be tweaked to fit better in a hypertrophy routine ..but as far as them involving only shoulders and traps is a huge understatement
    Last edited by asdf89; 05-31-2010 at 09:50 PM.
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  3. #3
    Just a gym rat TheProgressiveOne's Avatar
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    oly lifting would be VERY good for hypertrophy..as long as ur giving ur muscles enuff protein n carbs n fats..and also using the right rep ranges! (all will get the muscles big but 8-12 is generally best)

    if u wanna concentrate on oly lifts it would b better to change up ur program man..coz of the complexity of the lifts it would be easy to overtrain if u put a bunch of oly lifts on just shoulder day..
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    Registered User itsaburgerrun's Avatar
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    dont worry about overtraining PLEASE
    keep rep ranges low like 1-3 very important oly lifts arent meant to do high rep
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    Registered User matjusm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by itsaburgerrun View Post
    dont worry about overtraining PLEASE
    keep rep ranges low like 1-3 very important oly lifts arent meant to do high rep
    Indeed. Even just 5 reps of snatches or clean and jerks leave me absolutely demolished. Think about it: the ROM from the floor to above your head is about 3 times that of a deadlift so to do an Olympic lift with the same weight as a deadlift, you have to apply 3x as much force to the bar to get it up.

    I personally love the Olympic lifts because they are fun to do (who doesn't want to throw a barbell around at great speed), they develop speed/explosiveness (they're extremely widely used by athletes in sports specific training) and yes they do build muscle (I often have sore traps and sometimes even sore abs after a heavy session of cleans).
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  6. #6
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    To quote Mark Rippetoe: Olympic lifts are a great way of displaying strength but not a great way of developing strength - except for beginners.

    They make good metabolic training though.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    To quote Mark Rippetoe: Olympic lifts are a great way of displaying strength but not a great way of developing strength - except for beginners.

    They make good metabolic training though.
    have u SEEN mark rippetoe ? guy looks like ****,is probably ****,lifts like ****
    olympic lifters lifts those lifts hours daily and i doubt anyone here has there front squats

    i have yet to see the claimed 30 LBS of mass his programs put on the average trainee also

    to the OP look up some of the bulgarian/chinese lifters in a restricted weight division and see what oly lifts do for ur body
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    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by itsaburgerrun View Post
    have u SEEN mark rippetoe ? guy looks like ****,is probably ****,lifts like ****
    olympic lifters lifts those lifts hours daily and i doubt anyone here has there front squats

    i have yet to see the claimed 30 LBS of mass his programs put on the average trainee also

    to the OP look up some of the bulgarian/chinese lifters in a restricted weight division and see what oly lifts do for ur body
    You muppet

    Mark Rippetoe is a COACH. He is also getting on in years. The guy who coaches Mike Tyson doesn't look like Mike Tyson but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about.

    Rippetoe used to be a powerlifter
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    Probably more than you will ever do son
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    enlighten me how oly lifters develop there strenght o mighty rippetoe follower
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    Originally Posted by itsaburgerrun View Post
    enlighten me how oly lifters develop there strenght o mighty rippetoe follower
    What kind of a question is that? They lift big weights obviously, thats how they develop strength.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    To quote Mark Rippetoe: Olympic lifts are a great way of displaying strength but not a great way of developing strength - except for beginners.

    They make good metabolic training though.
    you know i have great respect for Ripeetoe, but if he said this,
    a) where is this quote? and
    b) i think we have to check the terms here.

    It's ludicrous to say that oly lifting is just for developing strength for beginners.

    Few powerlifters of a given same weight class as an oly lifter could put up over head in a snatch what oly lifters do.

    This is a world class oly lifter, ivan stoitsov. looks pretty good to me


    some of his training: http://stronglifts.com/how-to-get-a-...ivan-stoitsov/

    so the question is more: what does this style training give you that you're not getting from a more trad bodybuilding approach?

    are you looking for some fundamental endurance strength, hypertrophy, power strength, what? what cycle are you at in your training?
    Likewise, unless dealing with a really experienced trainee, mixing approaches in the same cycle is not a really good idea.

    So figuring out what you're trying to do, and how to build the best program to support that, is more important than trying to say - without any context - oly lifting is good or bad for your goals and your particular phase in your program.

    with respect to pure hypertrophy: there's so much we don't know about how hypertrophy works that it's also difficult to say that something won't work. What we do seem to know? pushing adaptation to load for lots of volume and partial recovery. that will cause a hypertrophic response. Is it the bodybuilding response? well, since BB'ing wants to show off muscles in isolation, and Oly lifting doesn't work muscles in isolation what's the likelihood of achieving that goal?
    But do BB'ers need good endurance strength? good connective tissue? good sensory-motor coordination? yes, yes and not so much.

    so just suggesting: the context plays a role in selection.

    mc

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  12. #12
    'Defiant to Injuries' Ironlife's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by itsaburgerrun View Post
    have u SEEN mark rippetoe ? guy looks like ****,is probably ****,lifts like ****
    olympic lifters lifts those lifts hours daily and i doubt anyone here has there front squats

    i have yet to see the claimed 30 LBS of mass his programs put on the average trainee also

    to the OP look up some of the bulgarian/chinese lifters in a restricted weight division and see what oly lifts do for ur body
    Look at that disrespect^^ mate the man, has had a great career in teaching and power-lifting and his knowledge would be unparalleled to anyone here quite possibly. Especially in strength.

    OP: Olympic lifts are for strength and especially power, keep to basic bodybuilding lifts for mass imo/
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    mc- I have the utmost respect for oly lifters. If I could be a competetive athlete, that's what I would prefer to be over a powerlifter or bodybuilder.

    However, I suspect what Mark was getting at is that the oly lift itself is the culmination of all the other strength training that they do. I don't actually know how they train but I expect they isolate parts of the movement, e.g. front squat, power clean, overhead squat, push press etc.

    I know they practice the lift itself endlessly to hone technique but I doubt that raw strength comes entirely from this.

    By the way, the quote is in a video interview with Rippetoe and Wendler on the startingstrength website.
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    Agree with SuffolkPunch. As a beginner you'll develop strength from Oly lifts (if you can even do them right) because as a beginner you'll develop strength from pretty much anything. But once the muscles are conditioned it's a different story. Oly lifts may be just the sort of change up one needs to break out of a period of stagnation but Oly lifts are very specific movements. To be good at them, no matter how strong you are, you have to train that movement pattern specifically over and over. Olympic lifters (while certainly strong) are more worried about explosiveness and technique than raw strength or hypertrophy.

    They get lean and strong from their high volume routines in which they do much more than just Oly lifts. And whoever is dissing Rippetoe must not understand that a coach does not need to be in shape. Most good coaches are retired mediocre athletes who realize that they lacked the genetics to be great but had the drive and developed the know-how over the years and they wish to pass those two things down.

    I incorporated Oly lifts into my routine and I was doing them often (3 times a week) but not as much as a pro Oly lifter (2 times a day) so my results will be different. But I noticed when I took time away from other lifts (deads, squats, bench, OHpress, etc) to do Oly lifts, the more conventional lifts progressed slower or stopped progressing altogether. Don't get me wrong, I love doing Oly lifts (who wouldnt love quickly throwing weight over their head) but I wouldn't confuse them into the categories for raw strength or hypertrophy.
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Agree with SuffolkPunch. As a beginner you'll develop strength from Oly lifts (if you can even do them right) because as a beginner you'll develop strength from pretty much anything. But once the muscles are conditioned it's a different story. Oly lifts may be just the sort of change up one needs to break out of a period of stagnation but Oly lifts are very specific movements. To be good at them, no matter how strong you are, you have to train that movement pattern specifically over and over. Olympic lifters (while certainly strong) are more worried about explosiveness and technique than raw strength or hypertrophy.

    They get lean and strong from their high volume routines in which they do much more than just Oly lifts. And whoever is dissing Rippetoe must not understand that a coach does not need to be in shape. Most good coaches are retired mediocre athletes who realize that they lacked the genetics to be great but had the drive and developed the know-how over the years and they wish to pass those two things down.

    I incorporated Oly lifts into my routine and I was doing them often (3 times a week) but not as much as a pro Oly lifter (2 times a day) so my results will be different. But I noticed when I took time away from other lifts (deads, squats, bench, OHpress, etc) to do Oly lifts, the more conventional lifts progressed slower or stopped progressing altogether. Don't get me wrong, I love doing Oly lifts (who wouldnt love quickly throwing weight over their head) but I wouldn't confuse them into the categories for raw strength or hypertrophy.
    Great read mate^^ repped.
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    I have no idea why someone would choose to do olympic lifts as the mainstay of their hypertrophy routine...
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Agree with SuffolkPunch. As a beginner you'll develop strength from Oly lifts (if you can even do them right) because as a beginner you'll develop strength from pretty much anything. But once the muscles are conditioned it's a different story. Oly lifts may be just the sort of change up one needs to break out of a period of stagnation but Oly lifts are very specific movements. To be good at them, no matter how strong you are, you have to train that movement pattern specifically over and over. Olympic lifters (while certainly strong) are more worried about explosiveness and technique than raw strength or hypertrophy.

    They get lean and strong from their high volume routines in which they do much more than just Oly lifts. And whoever is dissing Rippetoe must not understand that a coach does not need to be in shape. Most good coaches are retired mediocre athletes who realize that they lacked the genetics to be great but had the drive and developed the know-how over the years and they wish to pass those two things down.

    I incorporated Oly lifts into my routine and I was doing them often (3 times a week) but not as much as a pro Oly lifter (2 times a day) so my results will be different. But I noticed when I took time away from other lifts (deads, squats, bench, OHpress, etc) to do Oly lifts, the more conventional lifts progressed slower or stopped progressing altogether. Don't get me wrong, I love doing Oly lifts (who wouldnt love quickly throwing weight over their head) but I wouldn't confuse them into the categories for raw strength or hypertrophy.
    ^this. When it comes to hypertrophy you are really better off using isolation exercises that allow to really target certain muscles.
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    Originally Posted by DoctorBro View Post
    ^this. When it comes to hypertrophy you are really better off using isolation exercises that allow to really target certain muscles.
    I disagree, I think compounds are better for hypertrophy and strength and just in general but that doesn't make isolations bad either.

    Originally Posted by im2manly View Post
    I have no idea why someone would choose to do olympic lifts as the mainstay of their hypertrophy routine...
    That I'd agree with but there's nothing wrong with supplementing a general strength/size routine with some Olympic stuff. It won't do you any harm.
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    Originally Posted by seanthebeast View Post
    Anyone do olympic lifts for BB, or think its a good idea to include them?
    .
    No, on both counts.
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    Originally Posted by matjusm View Post
    I disagree, I think compounds are better for hypertrophy and strength and just in general but that doesn't make isolations bad either.
    I think I mispoke. Certain olympic lifts, because of the energy expenditure, (such as cleans and jerks) do not (in my opinion) make them the best tool to achieving hypertrophy. I agree however that when one does want to obtain hypertrophy it may be best to use compounds and then follow up with isolation exercises. Every tool is relevant, even the controversial Smith machine, and along that same theory it is best to incorporate more than one approach. That being said, I still do not believe that certain olympic exercises (namely the clean and jerk and snatch) are the best tools of obtaining the desired results. I think that olympic training is not essential nor even a good idea for those who desire to be a bodybuilder.
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    Originally Posted by matjusm View Post
    That I'd agree with but there's nothing wrong with supplementing a general strength/size routine with some Olympic stuff. It won't do you any harm.
    Of course, I love incorporating olympic stuff. It is the most fun form of lifting in my mind!
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    Originally Posted by DoctorBro View Post
    I think that olympic training is not essential nor even a good idea for those who desire to be a bodybuilder.
    Of course it isn't essential but what about it exactly is not a good idea? Olympic weightlifting has less injuries than either powerlifting or bodybuilding training supposedly.

    And if you aren't interested in ONLY building muscle and absolutely nothing else, then I think the Olympic lifts are some excellent exercises to incorporate. Builds explosiveness, vertical jump (applicable in most sports) and are generally fun.

    I think to say that Olympic lifts cause no hypertrophy whatsoever is a bit of an overstatement though.
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    Originally Posted by matjusm View Post
    Of course it isn't essential but what about it exactly is not a good idea? Olympic weightlifting has less injuries than either powerlifting or bodybuilding training supposedly.

    And if you aren't interested in ONLY building muscle and absolutely nothing else, then I think the Olympic lifts are some excellent exercises to incorporate. Builds explosiveness, vertical jump (applicable in most sports) and are generally fun.

    I think to say that Olympic lifts cause no hypertrophy whatsoever is a bit of an overstatement though.
    The reason it is not a good idea for bodybuilders is because it is not the best tool for obtaining the physical results they desire. One would find it difficult if not impossible to use the same rep and set scheme that is used for hypertrophy on something such as power cleans. I would say that power cleans are too taxing to and incorporate so many body parts to make it very difficult to traing power cleans to hypertrophy (Note: I did not say impossible).

    The muscle that bodybuilder's build is not meant to be expolisive or even to be strong. They are building merely aesthetics and symmetry.

    I do not believe that I said olympic lifts caus no hypertrophy at all and if I did I was wrong. I merely said they are not the best tool for hypertrophy.
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Agree with SuffolkPunch. As a beginner you'll develop strength from Oly lifts (if you can even do them right) because as a beginner you'll develop strength from pretty much anything. But once the muscles are conditioned it's a different story. Oly lifts may be just the sort of change up one needs to break out of a period of stagnation but Oly lifts are very specific movements. To be good at them, no matter how strong you are, you have to train that movement pattern specifically over and over. Olympic lifters (while certainly strong) are more worried about explosiveness and technique than raw strength or hypertrophy.

    They get lean and strong from their high volume routines in which they do much more than just Oly lifts. And whoever is dissing Rippetoe must not understand that a coach does not need to be in shape. Most good coaches are retired mediocre athletes who realize that they lacked the genetics to be great but had the drive and developed the know-how over the years and they wish to pass those two things down.

    I incorporated Oly lifts into my routine and I was doing them often (3 times a week) but not as much as a pro Oly lifter (2 times a day) so my results will be different. But I noticed when I took time away from other lifts (deads, squats, bench, OHpress, etc) to do Oly lifts, the more conventional lifts progressed slower or stopped progressing altogether. Don't get me wrong, I love doing Oly lifts (who wouldnt love quickly throwing weight over their head) but I wouldn't confuse them into the categories for raw strength or hypertrophy.

    guys,
    i agree - and say so in my wee post: i would not choose oly lifts for hypertrophy (indeed i'm not big on the crossfit use of faux oly lifts for x-fitness but let's not get off on that jag), but i would argue only with the point about strength not being developed with these lifts. that way lies madness - we need to be clear (as said) about what KIND of strength we're describing with that kind of lift.

    And yes, you and suffolkPunch make good points about
    a) using oly lifts for training vs
    b) training to do oly lifting.

    i apologize for not making that distinction.
    my brain was focused on *training* to do oly lifting as opposed to using oly lifts for training, which is what the op asked.

    good call and thanks both.
    rep rep
    mc
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    People don't respect Olympic lifts. They are extremely technical movements. You can't just go in a gym and start doing snatches. The snatch for example is the final piece of the movement puzzle, First you need to know each pull, then you will need to do the accessory work for each of the pulls. e.g you can't snatch a weight unless you can Overhead squat the weight for reps, this applies to each pull section.

    On the subject of this thread. Do Olympic lifts cause hypertrophy, No! The accessory movements required for the movement do.You can't do one without the other. So either pick a Olympic lifting routine or bodybuilding routine. both will create hypertrophy however the Olympic's hypertrophy will target muscles required for the moment and neglect those not required but you can always do some extra work to bring them up.
    Last edited by T-mac; 06-01-2010 at 11:36 AM.
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    Thanks for all the replies guys! Made a pretty long thread while i was gone. Lots of info

    Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    Agree with SuffolkPunch. As a beginner you'll develop strength from Oly lifts (if you can even do them right) because as a beginner you'll develop strength from pretty much anything. But once the muscles are conditioned it's a different story. Oly lifts may be just the sort of change up one needs to break out of a period of stagnation but Oly lifts are very specific movements. To be good at them, no matter how strong you are, you have to train that movement pattern specifically over and over. Olympic lifters (while certainly strong) are more worried about explosiveness and technique than raw strength or hypertrophy.

    They get lean and strong from their high volume routines in which they do much more than just Oly lifts. And whoever is dissing Rippetoe must not understand that a coach does not need to be in shape. Most good coaches are retired mediocre athletes who realize that they lacked the genetics to be great but had the drive and developed the know-how over the years and they wish to pass those two things down.

    I incorporated Oly lifts into my routine and I was doing them often (3 times a week) but not as much as a pro Oly lifter (2 times a day) so my results will be different. But I noticed when I took time away from other lifts (deads, squats, bench, OHpress, etc) to do Oly lifts, the more conventional lifts progressed slower or stopped progressing altogether. Don't get me wrong, I love doing Oly lifts (who wouldnt love quickly throwing weight over their head) but I wouldn't confuse them into the categories for raw strength or hypertrophy.
    ^pretty good summary

    btw im sticking to my normal routine for now, but OLY seems pretty cool so maybe ill experiment later
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    Originally Posted by Ironlife View Post
    Great read mate^^ repped.
    Thanks, bro.


    Originally Posted by mc- View Post
    guys,
    i agree - and say so in my wee post: i would not choose oly lifts for hypertrophy (indeed i'm not big on the crossfit use of faux oly lifts for x-fitness but let's not get off on that jag), but i would argue only with the point about strength not being developed with these lifts. that way lies madness - we need to be clear (as said) about what KIND of strength we're describing with that kind of lift.

    And yes, you and suffolkPunch make good points about
    a) using oly lifts for training vs
    b) training to do oly lifting.

    i apologize for not making that distinction.
    my brain was focused on *training* to do oly lifting as opposed to using oly lifts for training, which is what the op asked.

    good call and thanks both.
    rep rep
    mc
    There's definitely a big difference not only between training for Oly and incorporating some Oly but also between the types of strength one can develop through various weightlifting techniques. If you train Oly lifts you will get stronger at the Oly lifts (both through constantly refining technique and through increasing strength/explosiveness in that specific movement pattern). But if you train Oly lifts, you can't expect to get stronger at PL style low-bar squatting. One is a combination of speed, strength, and technique and the other is basically raw retard strength (retard in the sense that compared to Oly lifting, technique isn't nearly as difficult to learn).

    Glad we cleared everything up together for the OP. I'm also glad that people agree with me on some points so I'm not completely insane...lol.


    Originally Posted by seanthebeast View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys! Made a pretty long thread while i was gone. Lots of info



    ^pretty good summary

    btw im sticking to my normal routine for now, but OLY seems pretty cool so maybe ill experiment later
    Hopefully you absorb it like a sponge. But take it with a grain of salt...this is the internet after all.

    Good choice, tho IMO. A traditional balance between compound and isolation movements would serve a bodybuilder looking for hypertrophy much better than dabbling in other disciplines geared for different goals.
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard589 View Post
    If you train Oly lifts you will get stronger at the Oly lifts (both through constantly refining technique and through increasing strength/explosiveness in that specific movement pattern). But if you train Oly lifts, you can't expect to get stronger at PL style low-bar squatting. One is a combination of speed, strength, and technique and the other is basically raw retard strength (retard in the sense that compared to Oly lifting, technique isn't nearly as difficult to learn).
    I absolutely can not agree with this.

    Why do you talk as if there is a conflict between Olympic lifting and powerlifting? The strength developed in one can complement your development of the other. Plus if you're training them simultaneously, I don't see how you can't get stronger at both. I train both Olympic lifts (mostly the clean, not so much the snatch/c&j) as well as the traditional powerlifting lifts and I have gotten stronger at both.
    And I think the guys at Westside would disagree that powerlifting isn't about speed.
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    Originally Posted by matjusm View Post
    I absolutely can not agree with this.

    Why do you talk as if there is a conflict between Olympic lifting and powerlifting? The strength developed in one can complement your development of the other. Plus if you're training them simultaneously, I don't see how you can't get stronger at both. I train both Olympic lifts (mostly the clean, not so much the snatch/c&j) as well as the traditional powerlifting lifts and I have gotten stronger at both.
    And I think the guys at Westside would disagree that powerlifting isn't about speed.
    Powerlifting, involves as you know raw power and strength in lifts. Speed off the chest in the bench press is one of the main areas of the parameters surrounding power lifts, when your talking about oly lifts such as snatches and clean and jerks well these rely on a certain type of power and intricate technique that is accumulated and derived from doing the actual lifts themselves and partaking in them in a weekly routine whilst adding weight. The carry over to normal powerlifts from oly lifts wouldnt be all that as compared to doing the actual lifts themselves.
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